Cleaner Powder than Unique for .44 Mag

[trickg]

I went to the range tonight and after firing about 70 rounds of .44 mag and about 50 rounds of .38 special - both loaded with Unique - my hands were pretty danged dirty and I was curious to know if there is another good powder for .44 Mag that performs about like Unique but burns considerably cleaner.

It's not that I mind it, but I've only tried a couple of powders for .44 Mag in the short time I've been reloading and I'm open to suggestions. I've only used Unique and Herco - Unique because my Dad used and liked it, and Herco because some folks suggested that to me here. As a side note, in my limited experience it seems that Herco burns even dirtier than Unique.

Thanks!

[Three44s]

Are you willing to trade performance for cleaner hands?

I use magnum primers to clean up Unique ...... and if that did not help ..... I would just clean more.

Three 44s

[Heavy lead]

I started with Unique for mid-loads and H-110 for heavy loads in the 80's, when I was a teen, I've gone through almost everything you can think of being suitable since, including universal clays, and I settled back down with Unique for the mid range and 296 for the heavies (which is pretty much H-110). I just get great results with Unique with the 41,44,45, and 475's with mid-loads and cast boolits.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Keep in mind that boolit lube on cast boolits adds to the smoke and soot.

Also, in general terms, the higher pressure loads have more complete combustion and less soot blowing around. Perhaps loading for more pressure, higher velocity may clean up your loads a bit.

Also, the ball powders have a claim to being cleaner burning. You might look to HP38, W231 for fast powders and H110,W296 for slower powders. You might get less dirty with them.

Personally, I plan on cleaning my guns and hands after shooting and it doesn't matter to me if they are a little or lot dirty.

I use Ed's Red home brew gun cleaner, fast and cheap. The recipe is simple: 1 quart kerosene, 1 quart acetone, 1 quart mineral spirits, 1 quart Dexron automatic transmission fluid. I mix it and store it in a metal Coleman fuel can. It cleans up powder residue fast. I use a bronze bore brush to remove any leading. A great combination. Try it if you don't already.

Also, I carry a small can of waterless hand cleaner to the range with me and clean up my hands before I grab the steering wheel.

[C A Plater]

Hodgdons Universal is fairly close to Unique and burned cleaner for me as long you didn't go too light. Blue Dot works for me for loads with a little more oomph but not full power.

[trickg]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The thing with the hands is only a personal annoyance when it comes time to check out at the range and I have the residue all over my hands. I'm one of the few that happens to because it seems to me that I'm in the minority at the range when it comes to people who roll their own. That's all I shoot - if I didn't, I couldn't afford to shoot as much as I like to!

You guys pretty much confirmed what I had thought on the matter about using Unique - it's a solid performer for .44 Mag, which is without a doubt why it was always a staple on my Dad's reloading bench. In fact, when he was teaching me to reload in HS, my very first batch of reloads were made with Unique.

I had considered that the lube might be a culprit with the soot - this is the first time I have used bullets from this company and I seem to be getting just as much smoke with these as I have with the others I have used in the short time I have been reloading. However, I didn't consider the primers being a possible cause and that I might get a cleaner burn with Magnum primers.

My basic loads that I have been using for .44 Mag are 9.0 gr under a cast lead 240 gr bullet, or 10 gr Herco under the same bullet. Dad used 10.0 gr Unique for some of the loads I brought home when we settled out his stuff, but I only have that load data - Mom still hasn't sent me his reloading ledgers, so I'm not positive what else he loaded. Anyway, I was advised to use a slightly lower charge with new Unique because others said it has a bit more snap than the old, hence the reason I loaded 9.0 gr.

It looks like I'm just going to have to resolve myself to getting a bit dirty - I'd rather have a dirty load with good performance than to sacrifice performance for cleanliness.

[trickg]

I just read an article that suggested Titegroup as a good .44 Magnum powder - preferred even to the tried and true Unique. I might see if I can find a pound of that at the next gun show I attend.

[Three44s]

Titegroup is dirty to me and if you don't load it heavy enough it likes to soot the outside of the cases.

My clean powder choice is Clays .... not Universal or International ...... but just plain "Clays".

When you are suggesting loading up around 10 grs. of Unique pushing a 240 out of a .44 mag ..... I would suggest 10 to 12 gr. of HS-6 and a magnum primer.

It meters very well ...... like sin in fact.

When someone mentions Unique ...... I am thinking Skeeter loads ..... he used 7.5 in a .44 special and 8.5 in the .44 mag. ........ and for that opperating regime ........

........... Unique is ................. UNIQUE!!!

Three 44s

[trickg]

I've heard a lot of good things about Clays in semi-auto pistol reloads, specifically .45 ACP, but is it a good powder for .44 Mag?

I might have to pick up some HS-6 instead of Titegroup - your screen name (Three44s) suggests that you probably know what you are talking about when it comes to the .44 Magnum. :) Besides that, my friend is using it for his XD40 in .40 S&W and he really likes it. I plan on picking up an XD40 or XD(M) in .40 S&W sometime this calendar year - it's sort of a New Year's resolution - and I could always use HS-6 for that as well.

[Snapping Twig]

I use 7g W231 under a 429421 and my hands get dirty too, but I recently swiched lube to White Label BAC from Javalina - so we'll se what we will see on the dirty hand issue.

In general, low power loads smoke, magnums don't, so I'm not sure how much can be done to clean up powder puff loads.

[Bullshop]

473AA WW if you can find it.
Not to be confused with W473AA WW
Burn rate chart shows differant rates of burn. I have not yet tried W473AA but plan to if I can find some.
The 473AA burns ever so much cleaner than Unique and having much finer grain size meters ever so much better.
BIC/BS

[jack19512]

your screen name (Three44s) suggests that you probably know what you are talking about when it comes to the .44 Magnum.







I have four 44 mag's, does that make me an expert? I can tell you for a fact I don't know crap about the 44 mag. :kidding:

[44mag1]

how about power pistol, is this cleaner then unique? there are some good midrange loads for it.

[trickg]

I have four 44 mag's, does that make me an expert? I can tell you for a fact I don't know crap about the 44 mag. :kidding:
Yeah, but you didn't make a point to make your screen name about 44s. ;)

I certainly am not an expert in anything gun related. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. My Dad knew a ton of stuff, but he passed very suddenly at a time when I had just started to pick his brain about this kind of thing.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Trickg...Sorry about losing your Dad. They're good for lots of this stuff.

Concerning ball powders and the .44, you may find some position sensitivity. The deal is, balls, spheres, don't have edges like flake powder kernals do, and are just a tad bit harder to light. Also spherical powders tend to be more dense and hence occupy less space in the case, leaving more room. So if the powder is positioned in the back of the case next to the primer, it gets a more intense flame and lights quicker, generates pressure quicker, burns better, gives more velocity. If the powder is away from the primer and next to the boolit, it recieves less intense flame from the primer, lights slower, burns less effectively, shoots slower. This is a bigger problem in large cases like the .44 Mag, and virtually non-existant in small cases of auto loaders. Fast flake powders like Bullseye or 700X have the least position sensitivity and mid range ball powders the most. Funny thing is, the slow ball powders don't have much position sensitivity because they fill the whole case and the powder can not get away from the primer.

This is a great thing to play with using a chronograph.

[Doug Bowser]

I have been loading pistol rounds since 1963. I used and still only use
1. Bullseye
2. Unique
3. 2400

It is hard to teach an olde dog new tricks

[jack19512]

Yeah, but you didn't make a point to make your screen name about 44s. ;)






OK from now on I'm jack19512 AKA four44s. :) All joking aside I really haven't had very good look with Unique in the 44 mag and would like to try some different powders myself. I'm not concerned with clean burning powders so much as accuracy. At this time I am using 296 exclusively until I find something better.

[Lloyd Smale]

i prefer the old stuff too but have been using alot of power pistol lately and its a good powder in that burning range.

[JesterGrin_1]

My go to load for the .44 mag with a 240Gr SWC is 5.5Gr of TightGroup with a standard primer. I like it. :) This is about 950FPS.

[johnly]

I's suggest SR-7625 and SR-4756 as canaidates for clean burning loads. SR-7625 is close to Unique as far as burn rate and SR-4756 is slower.

John

[GP100man]

IMR 700X, clays , hp-38, 231 all are clean in the mid range, nuttins clean in bunny poot loads
i got a bottle of (new) red dot , gonna try it in 357 cases 5grs. under a 358477 & see what happens????
i use only glenns carnauba red & it`s as clean a loobe as comes around !!!!!

GP100man:cbpour:

[NoDakJak]

I enjoyed watching what other members have used in place of Unique for mid-range loads. I have used most of the powders that they have listed and liked them all. BUT! The best kept secret out there has to be PB! It is approximately the same burn rate as Unique but measures as well as the best ball powder and is probably the cleanest burning powder that I have used in a plstol. At this time I have replaced most of my Unique pistol loads with it but have not tried it in any rifle loads other than 25.20. It is fairly cheap and the last time that I checked was available in eight pound canisters. Give it a try. Neil

[MtGun44]

I dearly love 10.0 Unique under a 429421 or 503. Accurate in all
my .44s.

However - 9.0 gr of Power Pistol is a very close second place, and very
accurate and meters much better than Unique.

But - Unique is U-N-I-Q-U-E ! Really.

Bill

[dale2242]

Gp100 man, I had some Red Dot left over from my trap shooting days. Trying to fine a good load to use it up, I loaded 5 gr RD under 358477. Shoots like a dream in my GP100. It`s my favorite mid range 357 load. Chronys out at about 1000fps. Even bought another lb of RD ---dale

[Three44s]

What with power surges and lights blinking around here .......... WIND!! ........ I have been "hiding".

Though I agree with the assertion that Ball powders light a little more pernacoiusly .... I have found HS-6 with magnum primers to be a VERY good .44 mag powder for upper medium field loads.

In runs over the chrono, I found the velocity in my Mountain gun to run at 1066 fps and the standard deviation to run at just a measley ........ 7 fps ...... but the recoil for the power derived was most impressive and the accuracy was tops.

I have used HS-6 with jacketed and cast from 180 to 250 weight slugs in the .44 but the particular load referenced above was with RCBS 250K's, Federal magnum primers, Starline .44 mag brass and a load right out of Hodgon's #26 manual.

11.8 gr. ................. (According to Hodgon's 12.0 gr. runs pressures @ 26,000 psi) So with that in mind and the fact that SAMMI is considerably higher ...... you've got quite a safety cushion what with HS-6's drop dead reliability for consistent charge dropping.

Also, I have had women fire this load and LIKE IT! ........ out of the Mountain Gun ...... no less.

It won't be Mr. Clean but by starting at a published start charge and carefully working up ...... I note that just as this powder "cleans up" ...... it really starts SHINING.

Out of my Ruger DA's ........ the Redhawk with it's 7.5" barrel runs out at 1176 fps and the SD was still agreeable at 15 fps ..........

........... and with a bushy holosight on board .......... you can regularily POP golf balls at 35 yds while resting over the front tire of my John Deere ...........

While your mileage might vary ........ here's where the moaning and groaning starts that with any revolver load .........

....... there is NO substitute for consistency ....... with your brass ...... as soon as I get a batch of brass ...... it gets trimmed to a length that's appropriate ...... and gets inside flashhole deburred ...... (a habit from varmint shooting) and reinforced by a "foraay" into Red Dot in the .44 mag! (I inside debur the flashholes on ALL of my metalic cases)

The loads get worked up after this treatment ....... not before ........ because the ignition is much better and doing the reverse would be unwise.

Thank you for the endorsement on Three 44s ....... but I am no expert ....... just another student of the .44 .....amongst others..........

.......... It's a GREAT school!

You mentioned a .40 and HS-6 ...... I don't own any 9mm, 40 or .45 presently ......... I have a CZ52 (7.62X25) and really like HS-6 in that gun ....... and as much as it is a full case in 9mm .........

........ I would certainly investigate it for the .40!


Three 44s

[35remington]

3 44's, you'd better hope that Hodgdon continues distributing it.

Winchester discontinued W571, and stopped supplying HS7 to Hodgdon as it was the same powder. Took a little while for supplies to dry up and for Hodgdon to stop listing it.

Winchester discontinued 540 (HS 6 is the same thing) so an inquiry to Hodgdon as to their future plans for this powder is probably a good idea.

Winchester currently manufactures a powder that covers its range similarly - WSF.

Given that HS 6 isn't often mentioned it may not be a big seller for Hodgdon anymore, if it ever was.

I don't know if HS 6 is destined for the powder scrap heap or not, but a phone call may have you stocking up.

Or not. It would be good to know if you like it that much. I'm curious myself, having used it some over the years, but you probably have more invested in it as irreplaceable than I do.

[Harnic]

I used 10 grs of Unique for years in my S&W 44 mag, but it was too dirty, so I've switched to 18.5 gr of 2400 & a 245 gr Lyman #429667. It's very accurate & super clean burning.

[hpdrifter]

I really like HS-7. Know where there is 3 lbs, but ain't gonna persue it cause they are real proud of it; $32/lb.

[trickg]

Trickg...Sorry about losing your Dad. They're good for lots of this stuff.
I appreciate that, but he's been gone now for 12 years now, so it's nothing new. I only started to shoot and reload when I finally was allowed to have some of his guns about a year ago. One of these days I hope to obtain his reloading ledgers - over 50 years of records for every round he ever pulled a handle on. If mom ever decides to send me those, I'll have reloading data out the wazoo for just about everything from .25 auto to .45-90 and a lot of everything in between.

[Three44s]

trickg,

You better get those loading records of your Dad's ......... ASAP ........

Things like that have a way of ending up in unspeakable places and lost for all time!

35remington,

You are so right about powders disappearing ........ and some time ago ....... I e-mailed Hodgon's about that very fear .......... losing HS-6 .......

They profusely assured me that HS-6 was PLENTY popular ............ and that they had NO intentions of dropping it ...... this was pre-take over by Hodgon's of the Winchester line of smokeless ...... and they said that Winchester dropping 540 lifted their HS-6 sales to even better levels. I have a good supply of HS-6 ...... even bought a can of HS-7 for cheap! ...... but the way I like "6" ..... even in the shotguns ......... a big jug of it could not hurt .......

I still worry ........ but I now have a reasonable supply of WSF and have been thinking that the way the world works ...... I should start to play with it in the revos .......

Heck ........ it might even be BETTER???

Three 44s

[trickg]

trickg,

You better get those loading records of your Dad's ......... ASAP ........

Things like that have a way of ending up in unspeakable places and lost for all time!

Three 44s
That's not all she's supposed to send to me - there are a bunch of other things of indeterminate worth - books and that sort of thing - that I would like to obtain before she has a chance to sell them to the first person who shows an interest. I mainly want the reloading records though, considering that most of the other things that were his are now lost - sold at the auction that was held last February. Don't even get me started.

Thanks for all of the posts in this thread - it gives me lots of stuff to think about. I was going to try to pick up some powder and primers at a gun show this weekend, but it ended up being a bust - NO ONE had anything. I guess that's what I get for living in Maryland. Fortunately there is a big show coming up nearby in Virginia in about a month and I should have better luck there. By then I'll have had the chance to really sift through this thread and glean the nuggets of information I'm looking for.

[shotman]

Well I will put in 2 cents. I shoot 44mag 45 acp 40s&w 45colt all with cast and Lee TL I dont have a problem with TightGroup. I do use mag primer in all but the 40. I do use unique in some, it is a little cleaner than it was but not like TG.

[Three44s]

Shotman,

TG is a good powder ...... and for the range of cartridges you mention ..... pretty good.

But I like a whole range of opperating regimes and TG is not good on the lighter end for me ...... Clays is better there ......... nor up the ladder in the .44 either.

I notice with TG that if you soften it up too much .... you get sooted cases. And it's just not very clean in the first place.

When I want a clean plinker, it's Clays ...... if I want to turn the heat up a little ...... it's TG ..... a bit more ........ Unique ........ and on the heals of that ....... my over the top favorite ... HS-6 ......

....... 2400 is next and the top spots are reserved for H110 and WW 296 ......

I have noted that in the .41 mag ........ AA9 is grand ....... and I would suspect that upon trying it in the .44 ..... it may be a very versatile propellant.

Regards

Three 44s

[trickg]

It's been a while since I've been around this thread - been pretty busy.

Again, great stuff guys. I've been on the fence about trying HS-6, but it must be your over the top favorite for a reason.

I've also acquired a fair amount of .357 brass, so I'm going to want a good powder for that too, but I'll start with the HS-6 for .44 mag.

As for the cleanliness of Unique...while I realize that it all cleans up, my Dad and his friend used to call Unique "creeping crud" for a reason and even the new Unique is dirty - I wind up with black all over my hands when I take my .44 to the range - something I took note of just a few days ago.

[Swampman]

The new Unique is much cleaner than the old Unique. Nothing is as good as Unique IMO.

[MtGun44]

9.0 gr Power Pistol is a very good substitute for 10.0 gr Unique, works well under
a 250 gr boolit, makes about 1050 fps and is a very accurate load in my guns.

Bill

[bobthenailer]

A+++ for Tightgroup ! ive been useing it since it came out , it has replaced BE that I had been usesing for years previously for loads in the 700 to 1100 fps range for handguns calibers with excellent accuracy with cast bullets in calibers such as , 380 acp, 9mm , 38 special / 357 mag,
44 mag , 45 acp and 454 casull. ive used over 20 lbs so far and just bought two more 8 lb jugs this mounth.
I also use HS6 for med heavy loads , with excellent results ,. I bought a 8 pounder two years ago.

[Shuz]

9.0 gr Power Pistol is a very good substitute for 10.0 gr Unique, works well under
a 250 gr boolit, makes about 1050 fps and is a very accurate load in my guns.

Bill

9.0g of Green Dot with a 250g cast also works well as a substitute for 10g of Unique in the .44 mag. I get the same velocity range and just as good accuracy;plus it's cheaper to shoot!

However, I've found that 8.6g of Green Dot is more accurate in all my .44's than 9.0g. Velocity is still slightly greater than 1000 fps for 4" guns and slightly higher for longer bbl'd guns.

[Ole]

I like Unique because it meters well in my Hornady progressive machine, is too bulky to have a double charge go unnoticed in magnum cases, and is plenty accurate if I do my part.

Little soot/dirt on the gun just reminds me to wipe down my revolvers when I get home. :)

[Swampman]

I do not understand this fixation with CLEAN burning powder and getting your hands or cylinder dirty.
I want accuracy.
Unique, Bullseye , 2400, 4759, 3031, 4350, usually do that for me.

I agree....

[btroj]

I find that lube is far dirtier than any powder ever will be.
Clean burning powders are a marketing ploy, a way to sell powder.
I could care less. I use what works, cleanliness is never a consideration.

[williamwaco]

I have been loading pistol rounds since 1963. I used and still only use
1. Bullseye
2. Unique
3. 2400

It is hard to teach an olde dog new tricks



DITTO


Patrick,


People have been advising me for years to try powder a, or powder b, or powder c because they burn cleaner than Unique.

I have tried around 12 or 15 different recommended powders. I have never found a "clean" powder and I have never found a replacement for Unique that was noticably cleaner than Unique.



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