500 S&W Mag Hardcast Loads

[BigBoreReloader]

Hi All, I am a new member and first-time poster looking for a little guidance. To date, I have been loading multiple calibers but all using jacketed projectiles. I am now turning my attention to Hardcast bullets, so here I am! (Thanks, ShooterBob for the recommendation).
While general guidance is also welcome, I was specifically looking to load some 500 Grain Hardcast (component details below). Hodgdon shows some jacketed loads (500 GR. HDY SP) using a start/max load of 30gr. & 32.2gr of IMR4227, respectively.
My question for you is, am I generally safe starting at the lower or would you recommend even reducing that further? And, would your answer change if I used hi-tek coated vs. just lubed projectiles? Is there a general guide to safely follow in comparing vs. similar Jacked Load Data? Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge!

- Gas Checked (WFP/GC) with Cannelures - (Would be purchasing, not self casting).
- IMR4227
- Starline brass
- Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers

[Liberty1776]

Cast Performance 440-gr gas checked bullets seem to work well in my 500 S&W Mag.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1988180321?pid=184595

Started out with minimum loads recommended by Hodgdon.

Loads and ballistics tests reported at

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?427314-1st-Time-500-S-amp-W-Mag-10-Ballistic-Tests-3-Bullets-5-Powders-1-Water-Bottle&highlight=



$0.66 each.

[BigBoreReloader]

Thanks... I was looking at the 440 grain, as well. Out of curiosity, have you ever used load data for Jacketed bullets and applied that to Cast (presuming similar bullet shape & same weight)? If so, would you use the same load grains or perhaps step that down a bit for Cast Bullets? From what I have read, most would start out at the Jacketed starting load or slightly below (which I think makes sense given pressures).

[Liberty1776]

Thanks... I was looking at the 440 grain, as well. Out of curiosity, have you ever used load data for Jacketed bullets and applied that to Cast (presuming similar bullet shape & same weight)? If so, would you use the same load grains or perhaps step that down a bit for Cast Bullets? From what I have read, most would start out at the Jacketed starting load or slightly below (which I think makes sense given pressures).


I might "borrow" some jacketed data for lead if it were a low pressure, small caliber round, but even then, I'd use the starting loads. Not really being able to measure pressure, I rely on velocity readouts from my chronograph. If test firings line up with projected velocities in the load data, it gives me an idea I'm on the right path. If velocities are significantly higher than expected, I figure pressures are also up.

But loading for monsters like the 500 S&W Mag and .458 SOCOM makes me really nervous, so I haven't tried using loads listed for a jacketed bullet with a lead bullet.

This particular Cast Performance lead bullet does have a copper gas check, however. Not sure what a gas check does in terms of the bullet upsetting into the lands and grooves. More drag on a jacketed bullet or a lubed lead bullet? Supposedly less leading.

Generally, jacketed bullets can go faster, for what it's worth.

[BigBoreReloader]

I might "borrow" some jacketed data for lead if it were a low pressure, small caliber round, but even then, I'd use the starting loads. Not really being able to measure pressure, I rely on velocity readouts from my chronograph. If test firings line up with projected velocities in the load data, it gives me an idea I'm on the right path. If velocities are significantly higher than expected, I figure pressures are also up.

But loading for monsters like the 500 S&W Mag and .458 SOCOM makes me really nervous, so I haven't tried using loads listed for a jacketed bullet with a lead bullet.

This particular Cast Performance lead bullet does have a copper gas check, however. Not sure what a gas check does in terms of the bullet upsetting into the lands and grooves. More drag on a jacketed bullet or a lubed lead bullet? Supposedly less leading.

Generally, jacketed bullets can go faster, for what it's worth.

Exactly my concern... I have not found a lot of load data for various grain sizes for 500 S&W (the largest seems to be that 440 grain). Think I will stick to the 440 using Hodgdon starting load, for now. Thanks very much for your insight... much appreciated.

[LeonardC]

I just made a loading block for loading .500 today...waiting for the glue to dry. It's time for me to dust off that gun and get to shooting it again.

I load RCBS 400 gr. cast by me bullets with Unique for light loads and 440 gr. WFNGC by CPBC with Titegroup for my more serious loads. I don't shoot extra heavy or fast loads.

Just to scare the pants off you, read: John Ross write up on the .500, 26 pages, The Development of the Powerful Big-Bore Revolver in General and the .500 S&W Magnum in Particular and the Development of the John Ross/Performance Center 5" .500 S&W Magnum with Suggestions and Recommendations For Owners of These Guns. It shows up as no longer available, but it can be found on the web. He also started a thread on this site, 02-18-2011, about blowing up your .500. Both are interesting reads.

John Taffin wrote about the .500 for American Handgunner, Taffin Tests, January/February 2004. It's been posted on line as well. Note that this was back when LP primers were used.

Brian Pearce wrote about the .500 for Handloader Magazine February-March 2004 and just updated it for June-July 2021 issue.

M.D. Smith wrote up the 500 on ReloadAmmo.com His tables come across as a bit sloppy, but he has some interesting loads.

[BigBoreReloader]

I just made a loading block for loading .500 today...waiting for the glue to dry. It's time for me to dust off that gun and get to shooting it again.

I load RCBS 400 gr. cast by me bullets with Unique for light loads and 440 gr. WFNGC by CPBC with Titegroup for my more serious loads. I don't shoot extra heavy or fast loads.

Just to scare the pants off you, read: John Ross write up on the .500, 26 pages, The Development of the Powerful Big-Bore Revolver in General and the .500 S&W Magnum in Particular and the Development of the John Ross/Performance Center 5" .500 S&W Magnum with Suggestions and Recommendations For Owners of These Guns. It shows up as no longer available, but it can be found on the web. He also started a thread on this site, 02-18-2011, about blowing up your .500. Both are interesting reads.

John Taffin wrote about the .500 for American Handgunner, Taffin Tests, January/February 2004. It's been posted on line as well. Note that this was back when LP primers were used.

Brian Pearce wrote about the .500 for Handloader Magazine February-March 2004 and just updated it for June-July 2021 issue.

M.D. Smith wrote up the 500 on ReloadAmmo.com His tables come across as a bit sloppy, but he has some interesting loads.


Thanks for the info... always looking for some good write ups and something to learn... the minute you think you know everything, you know nothing. Fear is your friend when reloading!

[shooting on a shoestring]

BigBoreReloader, welcome aboard.

To answer your question regarding starting loads for cast boolits, yes I often use the minimum starting loads for jacketed as the starting point for cast loads. No I don’t load for the 50’s, but they are straight walled revolver cartridges, albeit they can be loaded to some really high pressures. And all the secrets have been chased out of the straight walled revolver cartridges years ago.

Don’t go below the minimum listed charge weights in published data. There’s good reasons those are minimums. One thing is large velocity (pressure) swings happen when a powder is combusted below is designed operating pressure. The second is related and that’s hang fires or in the extreme, SEE. Every powder has its envelope of safe operating pressure. Don’t get outside that envelope….on either end.

Also I noticed your use of the term “Hard Cast”. Ummmmm…..I hear that term used by people who are not familiar with cast boolits (or cast bullets to the outsiders Ha). Boolits cast hard or hardened after casting are generally reserved for high pressure rifle use, or some folks prefer them for hunting big game with revolvers to encourage deep straight penetration. But for most revolver use, cast boolits are soft to medium. Hard boolits encourage leading the bore. That is they are very unforgiving of revolver dimensions. And the ingredients required to make cast boolits hard cost money, so if someone doesn’t have a situation that requires hard boolits, the better choice is to only use as much hardness as needed for the load. Most revolver loads thrive on soft boolits. But, some guys have too much testosterone to appreciate the word soft.

Another one is inserting the word “long” where it doesn’t belong. Like in Colt cartridges. In particular the first one, 45 Colt.

Musings of a cranky old boolit caster.

Welcome aboard.
Let us have a range report or two as you get that big 50 running.

[shooting on a shoestring]

On gas checks, there’s been lots of discussion on this board about gas check theory. Search back 10 years or more and you’ll notice there were some very knowledgeable people on here. Many of the original members have passed. Luckily they left some of their hard learned knowledge here.

Gas checks don’t raise pressures to any measurable extent. Neck tension does. Hardness does. Bearing surface does. Crimp…..not much if any. Depends on brass hardness.

Gas checks are great for getting a better grip on the rifling. They also can mitigate some leading by scraping the bore as they pass. As far as protecting the base of the boolit from combustion heat…..good reading material on a rainy afternoon.

[shooting on a shoestring]

While I’m freely expressing my opinions, let me hit loading blocks.
I don’t use them. I don’t encourage their use. In my opinion they are the breeding ground for loading mistakes, either double charges or no charges.

I was taught as soon as powder goes in a cartridge nothing in the world happens next except that a bullet is immediately seated over it. Then and only then can your attention be diverted somewhere else.

A powder charge sitting in a cartridge without a bullet sealing the open end is an opened ended invitation for Murphy’s law to pay a visit. Multiple that by multiple cartridges in a loading block…..no.

[memtb]

I see you found your way here! Welcome to our “humble abode”......” satisfaction guaranteed”! memtb

[BigBoreReloader]

BigBoreReloader, welcome aboard.

To answer your question regarding starting loads for cast boolits, yes I often use the minimum starting loads for jacketed as the starting point for cast loads. No I don’t load for the 50’s, but they are straight walled revolver cartridges, albeit they can be loaded to some really high pressures. And all the secrets have been chased out of the straight walled revolver cartridges years ago.

Don’t go below the minimum listed charge weights in published data. There’s good reasons those are minimums. One thing is large velocity (pressure) swings happen when a powder is combusted below is designed operating pressure. The second is related and that’s hang fires or in the extreme, SEE. Every powder has its envelope of safe operating pressure. Don’t get outside that envelope….on either end.

Also I noticed your use of the term “Hard Cast”. Ummmmm…..I hear that term used by people who are not familiar with cast boolits (or cast bullets to the outsiders Ha). Boolits cast hard or hardened after casting are generally reserved for high pressure rifle use, or some folks prefer them for hunting big game with revolvers to encourage deep straight penetration. But for most revolver use, cast boolits are soft to medium. Hard boolits encourage leading the bore. That is they are very unforgiving of revolver dimensions. And the ingredients required to make cast boolits hard cost money, so if someone doesn’t have a situation that requires hard boolits, the better choice is to only use as much hardness as needed for the load. Most revolver loads thrive on soft boolits. But, some guys have too much testosterone to appreciate the word soft.

Another one is inserting the word “long” where it doesn’t belong. Like in Colt cartridges. In particular the first one, 45 Colt.

Musings of a cranky old boolit caster.

Welcome aboard.
Let us have a range report or two as you get that big 50 running.

Thank you for all the awesome information... and you caught me... I am definitely new to cast boolits world, though it looks like I came to the right place for some education. I appreciate it!