Case prep

[imashooter2]

Reloading for me has always been a means to an end. Usually shoot more for the same money, sometimes superior accuracy or ammo for competition that you just can’t buy. I don’t mind most of the reloading tasks. I even enjoy some of it… casting for instance is almost therapeutic. But rifle case prep is the worst, and the worst of that is trim and deburr.

I’m in the middle of a 522 case batch of 300 BLK. I formed them all yesterday and now about 150 into trim and deburr my arthritis is yelling at me. Had to take a break and post this rant. :o

-sigh- Nothing for it except to work it to death. Back to it. :lol:

[sparky45]

My sympathies shooter, I feel your pain. At 75, Arthur visits daily, usually the hands and hips.

[rcslotcar]

Yea, I just got done prepping a bucket of LC 308 brass.

[guy_with_boolits]

I agree completely.

The "solutions" for rifle case trim and deburr out there, and yes I am including the "amazing super all fixing all knowing" ones like WFT and similar from various small manufacturers, as well as the big name ones, are disappointing at best involving holding cases by hand or trimming from the shoulder instead of the head. A serious lack of innovation here. What is needed is a tool that:

a) trims from the head
b) cuts repeatably +/- .001" with easy adjustment of .001" (doesnt have to be micrometer, but should be easy to precisely adjust it to 3 decimal places)
c) does not require you to hold anything by hand
d) works on a progressive or single stage, automatically activating
e) trims and deburs inside and out
f) has a positive termination that does not require you to "feel" or "hear" when its done trimming

[farmbif]

dillon rapid trimmer is an option when doing large lots of brass

[JoeJames]

Yea, I just got done prepping a bucket of LC 308 brass.Oh man! I did a tub of LC awhile back. More than half needed extreme trimming. Not sure what it had been shot in, but it sure had lengthened. My cousin said we'd all be better off if we just shot straight wall rifle cartridges.

[popper]

Motorized Lyman trimmer. RCBS neck turner, motorized with drill. Arthur and I don't like each other. he usually wins.

[Paper Puncher]

JoeJames
Used to get a lot of 7.62x51 (308) that had been fired in M60 machine guns. Some of those chambers where really "generous" . Lots of trimming and the first sizing was a chore.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't mind trimming brass when I am converting it to another caliber. I loathe and detest trimming commonly available brass.

I have tried: 1. The Lyman (Universal I think) with a drill for power. Don't like it, the adjustments are sketchy at least in my mind.
2. The Forrester, Liked the collet holder, too bad I only have one pilot for it. If you screw the handle off you can tigten a drill chuck tight enough to trim brass and not hurt the threads.
3. The Lee system (the one available twenty years ago) powered by a drill is much easier than doing by hand. I never tried the zip trim; I got tired of pulling strings on lawnmowers, why would I want to do the same thing to trim brass?

If you can live with the length Lee thinks you need, it may be the best system out there.

Robert

[imashooter2]

I have used the old Lee system. I find it no better or worse than the RCBS I’m using now. At least the RCBS lever locking system is convenient for changing cases. I deburr with a hand held RCBS cutter. Just kills my wrists and fingers. I keep looking at the motorized case prep centers, but haven’t managed to pry open my wallet yet…

[JoeJames]

JoeJames
Used to get a lot of 7.62x51 (308) that had been fired in M60 machine guns. Some of those chambers where really "generous" . Lots of trimming and the first sizing was a chore.That was exactly what I figured. Lot of trimming, and lot of case lube.

[Three44s]

The topic of case prep sure invokes a whole range of emotions amongst reloaders/handload eras and some very choice comments.

As mostly a varmint/predator hunter I embrace case prep as likely the most influential activity that enhances accuracy the right after rifle selection and load development.

Once your brass is “prepped” it will now serve its owner with little intervention for quite a number of firings unless it’s loaded overly hot or shot in an oversized chamber, and yet, great numbers of shooters get very animated and angry at the mere mention of the topic.

Three44s

[jdfoxinc]

RCBS has an adjustable cutting head that does all 3 reasonably well. The trim 0ro II with motor and universal case holder takes a lot of the physical stress out of the job. But it is slow. The adjusting has a fine control but, trial and error still rule.

[Winger Ed.]

I do my rifle stuff in batches of 1000 for 7.62 and .223. Then lots of 500 for the others.

I'll spread it out over a few days, doing one aspect one day- like trimming, then another evening for de burring, and another for
primer pocket cleaning, etc. using as many power tools as possible.

Then priming, charging, and seating on a single stage in batches of a 3-5 hundred per evening goes by pretty fast.
It works for me without much dread or getting too bored.

[Three44s]

I do my rifle stuff in batches of 1000 for 7.62 and .223. Then lots of 500 for the others.

I'll spread it out over a few days, doing one aspect one day- like trimming, then another evening for de burring, and another for
primer pocket cleaning, etc. using as many power tools as possible.

Then priming, charging, and seating on a single stage in batches of a 3-5 hundred per evening goes by pretty fast.
It works for me without much dread or getting too bored.

+10 For common sense!

A fellow member loaned me his Lyman Prep Center and I am amazed at how many operations you can accomplish with minimal wear and tear on your hands and joints. The spindles point straight up and the weight of your hand and arm work in your favor. It spins fast enough to accomplish each task quickly but slow enough with acceptable torque to be reasonably safe.

Three44s

[Three44s]

I will offer one tip I have mentioned recently in another thread:

I take my cases and caliper their length and then sort into length ranges or groupings. Then according to how much has to trim off, I inside case mouth chamfer the overly long cases more and the less over length ones some less.

My goal is to remove some brass ahead of the length cut. I have found that a sharp chamfer tool ahead of the length trim hastens the case getting to length spec far more quickly than just length trimming from scratch. The reason is that any trimmer that tends to flatten the leading edge of a case mouth (and most do) is being counter productive and to resume progress, one will likely have to remove a case with a flattened mouth, chamfer it and then resume trimming and perhaps even have to repeat the above sequence again.

As I continued to pursue case trimming in my earlier years I noticed that those flattened case mouths often got so pancaked that the edge of the brass mouth even got stuck between the back side of the pilot and the cutter on the trimmer. Further, the outside of the case mouth needed more deburring.

So it dawned on me! Cut a healthy bevel on those overly long cases, then trim for length. The cutter does not have as much material to remove and the added step gives one a faster overall process ................... with a lot less frustration baked in to the “cake”!

Enjoy

Three44s

[Ithaca Gunner]

RCBS has an adjustable cutting head that does all 3 reasonably well. The trim 0ro II with motor and universal case holder takes a lot of the physical stress out of the job. But it is slow. The adjusting has a fine control but, trial and error still rule.

Bingo! Hornady has one now also. I have the RCBS 3-way trimmer heads in .30 and .22.

[myg30]

Like winger Ed, I break up the amount over a few nights. I use a food tray and debur or chamfer cases while watching tv with the lee trimmer.
It hurts as much to hold a drill in my hand. If it was mounted on a bench and locked on at the desired speed that might work better.
I’ve never used a prep center, it too might save some pain.

Mike

[richhodg66]

I don't load in the quantities some of you guys are doing, I did find the little Lee case length gauges can be used in a cheap Harbor Freight drill press to speed things up.

I have come to like file trim dies the past few years and have several for things I shoot a lot now. Slow, but it works well and seems easier somehow.

[FISH4BUGS]

I use the Lyman Case Trim Express. Like others, I break it down into steps and batches.
I do 1000 or so at a time too.
One step at a time.
Polish, resize and deprime, trim, chamfer & debur, primer pockets cleaned now ready to reload.
It is no better or worse than any other aspect of casting/reloading. How can sizing 1000 cast bullets on a Star be any better or worse?
It DOES give you multiple opportunities to inspect the brass.
Hey....winters are long and hard here in NH. What else are you gonna do?

[Handloader109]

I bought a lyman xpress trimmer just a short while back. It works great if you are only taking a bit off, I had a bunch of 30-06 I converted to 7mm x56 and I only roughly sawed off the head with the HF saw, and some cases were 30 to 50 thousandths too long. Those tend to grab as you are really taking a lot off. Those about 5 to 10 thousandths long work well and pretty easy on your fingers. I've the lee zip for 300 BO and 22tcm and it works pretty well with the small drill. No hand holding. For those who have issues with finger pressure, i.e. arthritis, this is a better option.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[toallmy]

I kinda enjoy my brass prep , but I only do it when I feel like doing it - including trimming . It's a hobby so if I don't feel like doing it I don't , trimming is just part of the process .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have all the 'STUFF' for brass RCBS Power uniformer, a couple different flash hole deburring tools, a couple trimmers. K&M, Lee, RCBS, Lyman. I have new brass from the 1970's-80's to this year and much in-between. The new brass from Hornady and Starline requires much less or no prep compared to older brass. Case lengths are usually within +/- .002 or less, flash holes are clean, and primer pockets much more uniform as to depth and width. Newer brass is saving me work and produced with much tighter tolerances and seems to be straighter. My comparisons are for 32 Special ( R-p vs Starline), 444 Marlin (R-P vs Starline), 358 Win ( Win vs Hornady), 35 Rem ( Win vs Hornady), 308 Win (many brands, most newer better than older) and others. I now try to use the more modern brass, leaving the older for shortage and emergency, just because the new brass is less work.

[Three44s]

I have been doing quite a quantity of .223/5.56 brass lately and the longest pre-trimmed case I have found is about 1.778”. That’s .018” over max length! For the members that typically do not trim brass that would present a potential disaster if they were to run such a case in any chamber I could envision being out there.

Best regards

Three44s

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You might measure your CHAMBER length before you just trim to recommended length. Most of my 308's, 243's, 30-30's, and 32 Special chambers are much longer than recommended trim lengths from the manuals. There are a few ways to do this and NOE also sells chamber length measuring tools. An example, my Marlin336C 30-30 has a chamber length of 2.093, way over any recommended trim length so cases are trimmed for uniformity, NOT manual recommendations. Could save a lot of cranking on the handle and longer case necks are more desirable in most cases (pun intended).

[lightman]

Electricity is your friend when it comes to case prep. Be it AC or DC it takes some of the work out of it. I mostly use tools from Sinclair and a Dewalt Battery drill. The last time that I faced trimming a bucket of brass made me buy a Giraud trimmer. It was expensive but I can trim 223's at a sustained rate of 15-16 a minute and maintain .001 in length. This machine trims and deburrs both the inside and outside.

Many reloaders hate case prep but I rather enjoy it. I also enjoy sorting things. Things like brass and wheelweights. Maybe I'm just wired different??? :)

[Three44s]

You might measure your CHAMBER length before you just trim to recommended length. Most of my 308's, 243's, 30-30's, and 32 Special chambers are much longer than recommended trim lengths from the manuals. There are a few ways to do this and NOE also sells chamber length measuring tools. An example, my Marlin336C 30-30 has a chamber length of 2.093, way over any recommended trim length so cases are trimmed for uniformity, NOT manual recommendations. Could save a lot of cranking on the handle and longer case necks are more desirable in most cases (pun intended).

That is true, although I have 7 ways to fire .223 and if cases cross over from a long chamber to a short one, I have to take that into account.

I am planning on leaving my longest cases around the 1.765” and wait on further processing because I run two Contender barrels in 7 mm TCU and by necking them up, I do not want to over trim those. I would rather expand the necks and full length size and then uniform them for length separately so as to not end up with TCU cases that are too short.

Three44s

[trebor44]

Converted to "motorized" trimmers some years back and found out that the 'cutters' on both the Wilson and Forester were not happy with the faster speed (wore the cutters faster) on the drills. Customer service recommended using 'slower' speeds that emulated the hand cranks. Just something to be aware of if you are converting from hand crank to a "motorized" adapter. But, 'motorized' is the way to go for volume trimming.

[cwlongshot]

Everyone hates it... Here is My process;
https://youtu.be/3QHAnWrgPAc

[popper]

CW I tend to agree with your comments about HS but remember, even LC (or any brand/lot) is you don't know which 'end' of the run you get. LC may run 10M 308W cases, when did they 'retune' the line? IMHO, my case prep is more important then selecting cases. Try weighing cases from 'same' lot or LC year stamp and see the difference. Or water weigh. Even worse is FC or Hdy, PPU etc. You don't even know when those are made.

[762 shooter]

I don't rush. Just do a little at the time and then one day Poof! it's all done.


I agree. Electricity is your friend.

762

[FISH4BUGS]

I don't rush. Just do a little at the time and then one day Poof! it's all done.
I agree. Electricity is your friend.
762
Now there is a guy that gets it.
Put 1000 cases aside.
Tumble them clean
Resize and deprime as many as you have time for in one sitting.
Do them in a number of sessions and poof...they are done.
Then clean the primer pockets in as many sessions as it takes.
The trim and debur ditto.
Then you are ready to load.
You can eat an elephant one bite at a time. :)

[cwlongshot]

Amen!!! ^^^

[gbrown]

i use the old Lee trimmer with the pilots that are supposed to be the correct length. Chuck the trimmer/pilot into a battery operated drill and hold the case with a gloved right hand and go at it. Chamfer/ream, in the bucket, do the next. Done ten thousands like this. Never had a problem. Case prep is like doing the grass--it's going to have to be done, get it done, get passed it. Only case that is a PITA is the military .223 with the crimped primer pockets. I do have several swaging tools, but it still is time consuming. Hasn't stopped me from doing 3 or 4 thousand, though. Reminds me of shelling a couple of gallons of native pecans for my sister and mom when I was at Ft. Hood in the early '70s. Nothing to do at night, so when I would take my vehicle for a "shake down" run during the day, I'd pick up pecans off the ranges (not shooting, but maneuver) and the next few nights shell them. Kind of a PITA, but I wasn't into the alcohol and drugs like others. Besides, gave me the satisfaction of doing something for the family, and I would share in the final outcome--candies and pies!!

[Three44s]

I think I finally swaged the last 5.56 military crimp last night! My next step is to ream those same pockets to achieve a light bevel to start new primers more easily.

I will do that on a Wilson trimmer.

Three44s

[Omega]

Do yourself a favor and get the Lyman Case Prep Station, I have so far done 4k cases of 300BLK and 277WLV. The adaptor is to hold a Lee hand case trimmer, which I use after forming the brass.
https://i.imgur.com/FoKkZ45.jpg

[brassrat]

I began reloading, namely trimming,by using threaded rod and nuts ground down to fit the Lee cutter piece and each case size. They must have been sold out of the, individual, rods, at Cabelas and I didn't know better. I made one to fit every caliber and they worked great. Really rough to do the 1000s I did, especially .223.. They are not fixed like the Lee set up. I checked with a caliper, until done. The brass gets held and I still use them when sorting shells for length, before trimming. A second resize will stretch a 1000th and the old cutter is quick to take a couple 1000ths off.

[imashooter2]

I don't rush. Just do a little at the time and then one day Poof! it's all done.


I agree. Electricity is your friend.

762

Today was that day. [smilie=w:

[zardoz]

A bit over 10 years ago when I was still working, I bit the bullet and got the Forster 3-in-1 cutters for 223 and 30 caliber, the power trimmer base, and the nicest Sears Craftsman full cast iron base and table bench-top drill press they had. Faced with several thousand once fired cases in those calibers, I was not going to turn a crank or pull a zip handle until my fingers bled.

A little over $500 invested at the time, but probably a lot more now to get the equivalent stuff. Took a while to get everything set up just right, but when it is dialed in, then you can go to town. Trim and chamfer both sides in one fast pass. Repeats to whatever you set +/- 0.001" at a given brass and shop temperature. The little drill press is really nice, as it has the laser sighting and works for a lot of other precision jobs too.

[BrassMagnet]

Giraud is best.
Gracey works, but works better with the Giraud cutting blade upgrade, and still better with the Giraud motor upgrade. The cutting blade replaces two blades with one blade that does it all. Besides, the Gracey blades must be adjusted in the wrong order! The motor upgrade doubles the speed. The caliber conversion adapters were better when Doyle was still alive.
Dillon Rapid Trim is nice. CH4D makes Dillon Rapid Trim dies in every caliber including straight wall cases, cowboy cases, and even wildcat cases. Rapid trim motors are not warranted for removing a lot of brass, but they can. I have used my old one to convert 30-06 to 8x57. Using a progressive press start with a Lyman "M" die to expand, then size and trim in one step on station 2, then you can even use another Lyman "M" die on station 3 if you are going to load cast boolits. It is as fast as just full length re-sizing.

The Giraud and Gracey also chamfer inside and out. However, I believe you still get a burr which can scratch your bullet and destroy its accuracy so I use a VLD chamfer tool for a real quick and light second chamfer.
The Dillon Rapid Trim does not chamfer, but it can trim straight walled cases as well as bottlenecked cases. You will need a different die for each caliber as it is a full length sizing die with the trimmer added on top.

You can also use a file trim die and a jewelers hack saw to case form, size, and trim. After chamfering, re-sizing with a regular sizing die may be needed.

I firmly believe the case prep is the part that has the most impact on accuracy. A scratched bullet base or coattail is a guaranteed flyer.

You could get even more carried away and set up two drill presses (or even three!). Flash hole uniform, VLD chamfer inside second pass, primer pocket uniform. I never got around to the third one. I have found it is better to do one step at a time, ie. trim and chamfer every case, flash hole uniform every case, and finally VLD chamfer every case. Trying to do three different tasks on three different machines does not lend itself to total consistency.