Modern Times Lament!

[Chev. William]

Yesterday, my Local Gun Shop and Gunsmith had me pick up all my still pending work projects in their care.
I was allowed to leave one small project for them to do shortly,
a Stevens Rifle actioin that has a problem with fitting the Trigger Spring Screw.

The projects that I picked up included two Mi Carbine Receivers along with New Custom Barrel Blanks to be Fitted and Turned To contour, one is >45 Cal and the other is .308 caliber, both intended as long Rifle length
and without Gas Porting for use as Straight Pull Bolt Action use.

Another is a Stevens Model 44 Action and Barrel that is converted to Center Fire.
It is still "in White".
there are several Stevens Favorite Receivers needing various problems resolved and a few barrels, both old and new that were to be fitted to actions.

The reasons given were the saddest part:
only the one Gunsmith was still working.
they can not hire any Apprentices due to California Minimum Wage Laws making it necessary for any new hire to bring in at least 5$45,000 amonth to pay hos Wages, Taxes and Benefits.

the financial environment is chocking off "on the Job Training".

A;so, my Gunsmith is also an Armorer for Movie Projects which are starting up again, so he will be out of the shop working movie projects more.


I will sort through all my returned parts and separate thew projects for later re submission one at a time as each previous project is completed.
Chev. William

[dverna]

Something seems wrong. Did you make a syntax error on the revenue needed to be generated by a new hire? I assume you wrote $45,000 a month?

[405grain]

Your problem is "California". It's not just their mandates, restrictions, permitting processes, surcharges, environmental compliance, equity and inclusion doctrines, over regulations, and inconceivably high taxes that are driving out businesses all over the state. It's also that they are more than happy to put gunsmiths and gun shops out of business. What you need is a good "out of state" gunsmith to help you with your projects.

[country gent]

Most states and even schools have lost sight of the apprentice programs and what they accomplish, A lot of state supported programs also included some pay subsidies school osts and other like things. It wasnt even a really long term thing as most were completed in 4 years some were 7 years. t the end apprentices were at top rate and states made back the investment in taxes.

[contender1]

It's basic economics.
When you are forced by laws to do certain things, then you have to charge X amount for services. When a customer can not afford to pay the X amount, or you have to price it so high as to be able to afford to stay in business. you close the business.
Or, when the laws force those who pay, (taxpayers) to give more & more,, while taking that & giving it away to those who do not put into the system, the system is build upon a "house of cards" so to speak.
At some point, the house of cards will collapse.
Not enough income to the "powers that be" will not allow those powers to stay in power, so they increase the amounts they require upon the ones who are paying. At some point, there will not b e enough income & the system will collapse.

Apparently, the point has been reached to where small businesses are not able to stay in business. The house of cards is shaking,,,!

PS; It's not just California either.

[Bent Ramrod]

O Tempora! O Mores! As the guy used to say.

You could do that work yourself. IIRC, you mentioned in one of your posts that you got a lathe from somewhere and restored it.

You don’t have to be a master machinist—just read some books on the subject and go slowly and carefully enough so that mistakes are caught and corrected before they become disasters. Used to take me all afternoon to make a gun screw, but it was a very good screw by the time it was finished. :mrgreen:

It takes time and effort, but is instructive and a much better use of your time than waiting around for somebody else to do it. It adds a dimension of interest to gun ownership, and anybody of the antiquarian or experimental mindset needs to be able to do at least some things by themselves. There’s too high a ratio between those who want such work done and those who can do it well and quickly enough to make a living doing it.

[sparky45]

Ramrod is spot on.

[Greg]

Chev. William

PM on the way

[John Taylor]

I had to move to another state because of high property taxes ( and politics). Now my house payment is about half what it was and my business license was $1. ATF made me jump through a bunch of hoops to get and address change and I'm still waiting on it.

[john.k]

Slightly OT,but I just had some drainage work done by licensed plumbers (mandated to get a building certification),two young guys,one excavator (small),bit of plastic pipe,sawcut of concrete kerb,...4 1/2 hours..cost $6100.00.......so you can see its not hard for an employee to bring in big bucks.

[Hootmix]

John Taylor is who ( whom ) I would like to do all my barrel & chamber work ,,, but ,,, he's there i'm here ,, broke !!! I do make some parts ( pieces ) on my SB 9" & mini lathe ,, it get's me by.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Rapier]

There comes a time to turn the lights out, lock the doors, then move toward the light, down the road. Living in FL I see quite a few transplants, with the same story.

[Speedo66]

CA is now mandating how pigs are raised, it will drive up the cost for farmers, some will not be able to make it.

So now CA is endangering BACON!

[Winger Ed.]

revenue needed to be generated by a new hire? I assume you wrote $45,000 a month?

I'd figure it was for a year.

If you're paying someone $10. and hour for example-- which would work out something around $20,000-ish a year in payroll,
the shop will need to take in approx. $45,000 just to cover that by the time ya figure in all the taxes, SS deductions, maybe some overtime,
perhaps some rather minimal benefits like paid sick time, holidays a possible bonus for something or another, etc. on top of the normal business expenses for parts, inventory, tools, utility bills, rent, etc.
If the new employee also gets 'free' healthcare insurance, It will take at least another $5-6,000. of pure profit to pay for it.

Then there's other things like with the additional people, and required work load, ya need pay for more space, more tools,
a bigger air conditioner, and on & on.

If the additional money & work doesn't come in at least to that minimal level,
before long the owner will ask their self, 'why am I putting myself through all this so I can make less money'?

[Bmi48219]

So now CA is endangering BACON!

Sure hope that fad doesn’t catch on!

[JHeath]

The changing market is making it impossible, too, and that is gun owners' fault. Gun shops not long ago were about walnut and steel, craftsmanship, esoteric knowledge, tradition. There was a market for reboring barrels and timing revolvers. There was a market for keeping your 1907 Winchester or Remington 14 running as though they were useful, working guns.

Almost every "gun shop" I visit now is a tacticool boutique. Young gun guys are interested only in bolt-on upgrades, it's like Barbies for boys. They are like Tesla dealers, laughing and shaking their heads at the guy who arrives and asks for a set of points and a timing light. They have no idea what those are and they don't care.

That's happened everywhere and it's not CA's fault.

[farmbif]

fortunately there are still good gunsmith schools, I looked into quite a few of them just a couple years ago trying to convince a young friend of mine to go to one of them. don't know what the situation is, but if I were hiring I would want a graduate from one of the real gunsmith schools so they could jump right in to make the shop a more productive place rather than training a wanna be apprentice. not a gunsmith shop but when through those hoops when partnered with my friend in a boat yard.

[John Taylor]

It seems like the younger generation does not have the love to get into gun smithing and the old gunsmiths are going to the happy hunting ground. I had a young fellow that had gone to gun smithing school and had his own lathe. Let him work in my shop for a while. I asked him to get his business license so I could let him do some work for me and he declined, said he was going to apply at Bowing. The love of gun work was not in him, he was looking for a good income instead.

[Soundguy]

around here many places can't get workers for 10-15$ an hour.. businesses are staying closed or closing half a week due to no staff.

between lazy and covid handouts.. and a year vacation.. people are ruined...

[JHeath]

People who work 40 hours want to make their rent, buy food, and have health insurance. Even $15 is $600/wk gross, probably $2000/mo take home.

Does the gunsmith offer health insurance? Of course not. He's a one-man business. Suppose he had 6 employees or 20 employees. How many hours per month does a gunsmith want to spend on finding and administering health insurance policies for his business?

So a gunsmith can't offer health insurance. Now the $15 employee has to spend at least $400/mo for Obamacare subsidized insurance with a $3500 deductible. So he still can't afford to see a doctor. But if he doesn't buy the insurance, breaks his leg, and has a $30,000 bill, he's bankrupt, he'll never pay that off.

So now he's taking home $2k, after buying health insurance he's got $1600. His rent in a roommate situation in CA is might be $800. So now he's got $800 left to buy food, phone, transportation, clothing, etc. Even tools. Good luck affording a caliper. He can't afford a car.

Boeing offers health insurance and regular advancement. Workers are not sitting at home and starving right now, and they're not living on $300/mo. They're going where the money is.

It's a free market. That's capitalism. If you can't find workers, you're simply not paying enough. If you can't out-pay other businesses, you are not charging enough. If you can't out-pay other *industries*, your trade is going defunct.

Cheap new bolt rifles will out-shoot any old classic. They don't break much. Gunsmiths can't make a living replacing broken leaf springs in Model 94s anymore, or intalling Bo-Mar sights on auto pistols that are not offered with adjustable sights.

[Ed K]

It's an honorable profession to be sure but I'd be hard pressed to advise a younger person to pursue it. Someone with those skills should just become a plumber. And no, not a toilet plunger of a plumber but one working with state of the art tools and installing state of the art equipment. Even apprentices make as much as most gunsmiths and masters make much more.

The problem we face in this hobby is that we now daily pay plumbers, HVAC techs, auto mechanics and all sorts of trade-type professional big bucks but expect a gunsmith operating a small machine shop with all of the overhead (machinery-building-workers comp-utilities) to repair a S&W revolver for $50. Any of those others spending a couple of hours on your project are going to set you back hundreds of dollars.