45/70 dies

[John Crusher]

I'm looking at getting a set of dies for reloading my 45/70 brass and am wondering what way to go.
I have a 550 Dillon and of course a Rock Chucker.
I've reloaded for 20 some odd years , but never 45/70 or BP.
I have a couple hundred rounds of Hornady 325 FTX ammo (some shot) and quite a bit of Winchester, Federal, and HSM.
I got the itch for 45/70 early last year and picked up a couple of Ks' because it was cheap ,relatively, and I kind of fell into a Marlin 1895GBL dirt cheap. I recently got a Palmetto/Garret 1873 and since I'm used to rolling my own ammo I would like to know if the Lee dies are the way to go or if the Hornady New Dimension would be better. I understand Redding dies for 45/70 is what Dillon carries but have never used them. I use RCBS and Lee dies in my 550 so , what do you all think ?
Thanks, John.

[Binky]

I have had a set of Lee's for 25+ years and they work fine. Also have a set of RCBS and they do a good job. The Lee's needed a little deburring but turn out good ammo. My thought is that you will be OK with whatever you can find, in the current market. Not a fan of Hornaday but have a couple sets (not 45-70) and they will probably work also.

[richhodg66]

If I were buying a new set of dies for .45-70, I'd get a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies, but all I shoot in anything anymore is cast.

The Cowboy dies made a huge difference in accuracy in my .38-55 without changing anything else. They are well worth the extra money in my opinion.

[GregLaROCHE]

How are Cowboy dies different from regular dies?

[richhodg66]

Designed to expand case mouths properly for cast bullets.

I got a .38-55, shoot like crap with cast. Rifle likes a fat bullet and standard dies sized the case to the extent that the cases squeezed the bullets to be undersized after loading. When I got a set of the Cowboy dies, without changing anything else about loads, groups shrunk in half.

They're designed for cast bullets, I suppose a guy could shoot jacketed and not have to worry about it, but loading and shooting jacketed in .45-70 borders on blasphemy in my opinion.

[1hole]

.... I use RCBS and Lee dies in my 550 so , what do you all think ?
Thanks, John.

I think every maker's dies obviously work quite well or they would have failed in the market long ago. Pick a box color you like and use 'em.

[RedlegEd]

I'm looking at getting a set of dies for reloading my 45/70 brass and am wondering what way to go.
I have a 550 Dillon and of course a Rock Chucker.
I've reloaded for 20 some odd years , but never 45/70 or BP.
I have a couple hundred rounds of Hornady 325 FTX ammo (some shot) and quite a bit of Winchester, Federal, and HSM.
I got the itch for 45/70 early last year and picked up a couple of Ks' because it was cheap ,relatively, and I kind of fell into a Marlin 1895GBL dirt cheap. I recently got a Palmetto/Garret 1873 and since I'm used to rolling my own ammo I would like to know if the Lee dies are the way to go or if the Hornady New Dimension would be better. I understand Redding dies for 45/70 is what Dillon carries but have never used them. I use RCBS and Lee dies in my 550 so , what do you all think ?
Thanks, John.

Hi John,
And welcome to Cast Boolits. Just a word of caution...your Hornady brass is about 0.10" shorter than standard .45-70 brass, so make sure you don't mix them when loading other brands of brass. If you set your seating die with a slight crimp for Hornady, it will crumple a normal piece of brass when you go to seat the bullet. BTW, I agree with Rich as to the Cowboy dies, but if you can't get them, and you're going to shoot cast bullets, you can get a proper expander from NOE that will fit in a Lee expander die body.
Ed

[country gent]

I have and use both the RCBS Cowboy dies and Lee for BPCR rounds Both are good and work as advertised and are good. Both size small and expand up to bullet dia. In the lever gun you will want more neck tension than I use though.

The Rcbs die set is finished nicely and both my sets show a nice dolor case hardening. They load good consistent ammo with low concentric run out. I have made new expanderas for the bigger bullets and light tension I use in my rifles. I have 45-90 and 38-55 in these dies. The RCBS is more work to make a new expander for.

The lee dies do the job I like the floating seater and the expander is easier to make or modify. Not as nice a finish as the RCBS though.

On a side note I also have a Mecham bushing die for sizing. This will do the 45 cal and 40 cal. With the bushings you can size just to what you need with little need for an expander, this is much easier on brass. It also allows to size for PP bore riding bullets. This is much easier on brass as it works it much less.

[Chill Wills]

Often the die sets are set up for jacketed bullets. In other words the expanders are very small. With 45-70 and cast bullets (other BPCR calibers too) using the stock (factory) case neck expander causes problems. Unlike jacketed bullets, one two thousandths smaller than your soft cast bullet is best so as not to change the 'as sized diameter' of the cast bullet when seating. Many of the factory expanders are many thousandths smaller than the cast bullet you choose to use. The small case neck ends up reducing the diameter of the bullet and in turn reduces the accuracy of your loads. Shooting under-size bullets rarely improves accuracy!

Likely the reason die sets come with very small expanders is for use with jacketed bullets - us bullet casters are in the minority. It is true the RCBS Cowboy dies sets are a better choice if cast bullets are to be used. Even then the diameter of the case neck expanders may not be optimum, but will get you closer.
The recommendation of getting an aftermarket 'two diameter expander' solves problems. There are a number of sources.

[Dom]

Go with the RCBS Cowboy dies. I have a set I've been using for about 5 years now. They come with two different diameter inside neck ex-panders. The one you use depends on the your bullet dia, in relation to your bore dia. This is important for best accuracy with cast bullets. If your only going to use jacketed bullets the Lee will be fine.

[Walks]

I like the old Lyman dies in the Black cardboard box. They have old style M-dies and Do NOT size the brass excessively.
New Die Set ? I would buy RCBS Cowboy.
The Lee dies really stink for loading Cast.

[hwilliam01]

One consideration, if you are planning on reloading the 45-70....Lee makes a crimp die especially for the FTX loads using the Hornady short brass. I am not sure if the other manufacturers do. Just a thought!

Bill

[smithnframe]

Anything but Hornady!!!

[John Crusher]

Well , I did stock up on Missouri Bullets Buffalo cast so I will be loading cast and maybe go BP for my Garret.
I'll get the RCBS Cowboy dies, got a buddy at Grafs.

[richhodg66]

Well , I did stock up on Missouri Bullets Buffalo cast so I will be loading cast and maybe go BP for my Garret.
I'll get the RCBS Cowboy dies, got a buddy at Grafs.

There are a ton of good mold designs for .45-70. Lee molds are dirt cheap and while they are delicate and much harder to learn to cast with than iron ones, their designs tend to be good ones and that Lee 340 grain FN or the 405 grain HB one have both done very well for me.

[JimB..]

One consideration, if you are planning on reloading the 45-70....Lee makes a crimp die especially for the FTX loads using the Hornady short brass. I am not sure if the other manufacturers do. Just a thought!

Bill

Redding makes one too. They seem to make them in batches, so availability varies, but that’s just the new normal.

If the OP needs another opinion, I’m using RCBS cowboy dies for the single stage. Will get a custom powder funnel for the xl650 from @lathesmith one of these days and then just use the standard RCBS dies.

[robg]

i load 45-70 cast boolits with lee dies no problems.

[marlin1895]

I am a RCBS man & always will be. They do the best for your money by far

[PhilC]

When my brother asked me to load for his 45-70 I got the RCBS cowboy set and couldn't be any more pleased with how well made they are. His 1895GBL really likes the 425gr Piledriver Jr from Beartooth. I haven't found a similar mould...yet.

[Green Frog]

I’ve been chuckling and biting my tongue until it’s ready to bleed. I only shot BPCS a few times with my original Winchester high walls with modern 45-70 barrels. I loaded a bunch of the rounds I used for that purpose on an old Lyman TruLine Jr and a set of NOS (flat orange cardboard box) dies I picked up somewhere. I started out using an orphan Lyman mould from their Centennial Special set to get classic 405 gr bullets.

I used this rig for several years with perfect satisfaction. That’s why I had to chuckle at folks coming up with all sorts of stuff necessary to get the job done. You just “gitter done” and go shoot. I even set up a friend with a Lee/Mequon “Whack-a-Mole” set he used for his original Trapdoor Officer’s Carbine. It ain’t rocket science! :mrgreen:

Froggie

[richhodg66]

I’ve been chuckling and biting my tongue until it’s ready to bleed. I only shot BPCS a few times with my original Winchester high walls with modern 45-70 barrels. I loaded a bunch of the rounds I used for that purpose on an old Lyman TruLine Jr and a set of NOS (flat orange cardboard box) dies I picked up somewhere. I started out using an orphan Lyman mould from their Centennial Special set to get classic 405 gr bullets.

I used this rig for several years with perfect satisfaction. That’s why I had to chuckle at folks coming up with all sorts of stuff necessary to get the job done. You just “gitter done” and go shoot. I even set up a friend with a Lee/Mequon “Whack-a-Mole” set he used for his original Trapdoor Officer’s Carbine. It ain’t rocket science! :mrgreen:

Froggie

That's the little turret press designed to use 310 dies, right?

I have one, haven't used it yet. Mine came with two tool heads, one for 310 dies and one for standard 7/8x14. I got it planning to load .22 Hornet one which I only neck size. That is a diminutive little press for a big ol' case like .45-70.

Generally I would agree with your statement and I do not own RCBS Cowboy dies for .45-70 (yet) but have them for several other cartridges and am convinced they are better for loading cast and worth the extra cost. The switch to them made a very dramatic difference in how my .38-55 loads shot.

[Chill Wills]

I’ve been chuckling and biting my tongue until it’s ready to bleed. I only shot BPCS a few times with my original Winchester high walls with modern 45-70 barrels. I loaded a bunch of the rounds I used for that purpose on an old Lyman TruLine Jr and a set of NOS (flat orange cardboard box) dies I picked up somewhere. I started out using an orphan Lyman mould from their Centennial Special set to get classic 405 gr bullets.

I used this rig for several years with perfect satisfaction. That’s why I had to chuckle at folks coming up with all sorts of stuff necessary to get the job done. You just “gitter done” and go shoot. I even set up a friend with a Lee/Mequon “Whack-a-Mole” set he used for his original Trapdoor Officer’s Carbine. It ain’t rocket science! :mrgreen:

Froggie

May I point out that some of the innovation is a desire to improve the quality of the loaded round.
And that comes from the desire to make better scores because you feel like the lack of accuracy may be costing a point or more in a match.
Often, there is a traffic jam near the top of the scoreboard and a single point can make a big difference.

[pelikan800]

I also reload 45-70 and use RCBS's Cowboy dies and Missouri Bullet 300 gr. RNFP bullets and am happy with the setup. I have only reloaded cast, and have shot a box or two of jacketed factory loads (Rem. 405gr soft point). Let us know how your setup works!

[John Guedry]

My 45/70 dies are made by Lee and no problems.

[GregLaROCHE]

The OP said he had some Hornady brass to reload. I’ve never used any, but I’ve heard that the Hornady brass was a little shorter the other brands.

[PhilC]

If that Hornady brass was originally loaded with FTX bullets it will most definitely be shorter.

[Rany A]

If that Hornady brass was originally loaded with FTX bullets it will most definitely be shorter.

What he said, the Hornady FTX bullet (lever evolution ammo) brass requires a case length of 2.040 vs the normal 2.100 of the 45-70. So they’re .060 shorter. If the OP were to pick up dies, make sure they’re new enough that the crimp die will crimp the shorter case. Older dies will barely start a crimp before the die body contacts the shell holder (runs out of travel).
Another suggestion would be to slug your rifle bore and select your bullet mold and expander die to the correct dimensions. A proper fit will help improve accuracy, reduce/eliminate any leading and save a lot of potential trouble.

[1hole]

I am a RCBS man & always will be. They do the best for your money by far

"Best by far"? That sounds quite authoritative! I have to wonder, how long have you been reloading and how many brands of dies do you actually have personal experience with?

[Walstr]

.45-70 Redding #80209 FL Reloading 3 Die set, used [$70+ new]; 11-16-2014 sent it in to Redding for eval, as it just wasn't crimping into my Beartooth Piledriver Jr.'s. User error--I was supposed to set the crimp die about one turn off the "lower" portion of the Dillon shell plate. I also didn't care for this die's swaging the top 3/16" of my case mouth to 'conform' to SAAMI chamber specs. Then the discussion revealed this die set is NOT OPTIMAL for hardcast lead alloy bullets, but rather jacketed projectiles. Go figure.

11-19-2014; I then ordered an RCBS Cowboy Action 3-die set. Who knew?

It's tough when ya don't know what'cha don't know, but I got lucky this time finding an informed Redding employee that referred me to RCBS for this solution. I remain ignorant of the machining issues/specs that differ between the two manuf's, but the results were outstanding for my purpose.

I too reload 45-70-405 (my hardcast COWW+2% Pewter, LWFN) on my 550 and have found a good "nodes" with 27gr & 34gr of IMR4198, yielding 1.5" & 1.3" groups respectfully @ 100yd; Marlin 1895GS. I know IMR4198 is not normally spec'd for this round, but seems to work well for me in this large straight walled "tube". Good luck & call/pm with any questions.

Wally