What Caliber??

[Wayne Smith]

I am having a Martini action fixed and will soon have to make a decision, what caliber do I want in it? I have delusions of 9.3x74R, but I'm sure that will be too long. Yes, I've thought of 45-70, but I'm not sure I want one that kicks that much. I'm not committed to a BP cartridge for this, as long as I can keep it to approximately 7x57 pressures. Yeah, I've thought of 7x57, one of my favorite cartridges, but 7x57R cases are likely the problem. Granted, I haven't yet looked for them. I've got two 30-30's or I'd go that way.

I would like it to be a cast shooter, and that causes me to question the 7mm size, at least for hunting. Yeah, I'd like to take it into the woods at some point. Yes, I know, the 45-70 is very versitile, I have the Collar Button mold from NEI. And the only 45-70 I have now is the Encore barrel, all 20" of it.

I have a stock blank and have to send that off to be cut. Have to decide on the external dimensions of the barrel first. Round, octagonal, or half-round? I've always liked the half-round but not sure how it will look on a Martini.

Anyway, several of you have thought out these things, and I would like to hear some of your musing.

[Potsy]

Graf & Sons had 7x57R Norma brass (at a little over a buck a pop) listed on their website.
Dave Clements has been necking .45-70 cases to .348 in Marlin Rifles and seems to be having lots of luck and fun with it. Don't know why one couldn't neck them to .366 or .358 if one wanted. Can't imagine that something real close doesn't already exist reamerwise.
In my limited experience, I've never seen a half octagonal/half round barrel that didn't look really cool.

[No_1]

Good question Wayne,

The Martini is a classic rifle and deserves a classic round so I would choose the 30-40 Krag.
1) It is a rimmed cartridge
2) It has a long neck, good for cast boolits.
3) It is a low pressure (considering others) cartridge which would reduce stress on the action.
4) Brass is commonly available.
5) There are 100's of .30 caliber boolit moulds available.
6) If you are in a bind, factory loaded ammo is still available although it is sometimes tough to get.

Since this will be a cast boolit gun, I would go with a somewhat short barrel of maybe 18". There are tons of low pressure loads for the Krag round that use fast burning pistol powders so a longer barrel is not needed.

I would also choose an Octagon barrel of somewhat light weight which would look great on this classic and balance good when carried in the field.

You have not mentioned the sight system you desire, If I had my choice it would be a classic old school 4x fixed power scope, something that would look period correct. I would not try to find a period correct target scope because you will end up with more in the scope and mounting system than the rest of the gun.

Robert

[jhrosier]

Wayne,
I would chamber that rifle in 40-65 if it was mine.
The case is tapered and should load into the Martini easily.
The cartridge is well liked for long range shooting as it is well balanced for power and recoil.
It can be easily formed from readily available brass and there are many boolit moulds available in this caliber. I would go with a half round barrel with a slight taper on the round part.
You might want to have a tang welded to the receiver to mount a tang sight for long range shooting, since the stock is going to be custom anyway.

Jack

[shamrock]

What was the origanal cal of this action. I have a 14 gauage in martini [ww greener] and have been thinking of the 45-70 thing.

[John Taylor]

The large Martini actions are cast and are not designed for high pressure, also they don't weld to good. Have done several of the Greeners to 45-70 with no problems. These were the 12 gauge that took a special stepped cartridge and had prongs around the firing pin so nothing ells would fire ( some call them 14 gauge). I put a liner in one and left the outside looking as rough as it did when I got it other than adding sights. One customer said it was as ugly as a 2X4 but it sure shot good. Just about any rimmed cartridge that is low pressure will work except the long ones, 9.3X74 may not work. You could get a little wild and go with the 70-150 just to be different.

[Lead melter]

Why not go all the way wild and do a 38-55 or maybe a 50-90? The 38-55 will not require new brass if you neck up 30-30 and seat the boolit way out of the case mouth.

[JohnH]

Why not go all the way wild and do a 38-55 or maybe a 50-90? The 38-55 will not require new brass if you neck up 30-30 and seat the boolit way out of the case mouth.

Another vote for the 38-55 esspecially since Starline is making both short and long versions of the brass. But the best part is that you would have complete control over the chamber, bore and groove dimensions and twist rate. It makes both a good plinker and hunting cartridge.

[leadman]

Why not a wildcat? Since you already have 30-30 brass, go with a 35 caliber on the 30-30.
I have a Pedersoli Rolling block in 40-65. One in 18" twist. Shoots 400 grain Lyman Snover very well. Will also shoot 41 cal. pistol bullets. The 265 gr. RFN is good for 3" at 200 yards.
Definitely a tapered octogan barrel would be cool.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I second the notion of 30-40 Krag. Its an old timer like the Martini, but has a great track record harvesting deer. Its a capable .30 caliber and would be much easier on the lead pile than .45 something or other. Very versitile, from .311 round balls to 200+ grain flat, round, spire whatever point. Can go faster than a 30/30 and slower than a .22LR.

I've yet to come across a 30-40 Krag with a dissatisfied owner.

[The Double D]

Saying large Martini's are cast is like saying Lever actions are cast. Both statements are wrong. There several different large Martini style

Martini Henry actions are forged. Some late Webley made Greeners are cast but Most Greeners are forged. They Francottes were forged

Martini's weren't designed for high pressure, but handle higher pressures quite well.

A good 7 MM cartridge would be 7-30 Waters. Want a good 7 MM Wild cat neck down a .303 or 30-40 Krag.

.30/40 as mentioned as as well as .303 good way to go in the "30 cal" range.

Wild cats Neck either 30/40 or .303 to .338.

38/55 as mentioned as well as the 375 2 1/2 Flanged NE. I have a .375 2 1/2 NE Flanged and it is a good and pleasant shooting rifle.

U.S. Martini's were orignally chambered in 45 Turkish, 45/70 50/70 and 45/50.

A really good Martini cartridge is the 500/450 Musklet No.2

Should you live in an area where rouge elephant or raging Cape Buffalo are a problem, try the 577 2 3/4 Nitro Express, I got one of those that I haven't fired yet.

[Boz330]

Saying large Martini's are cast is like saying Lever actions are cast. Both statements are wrong. There several different large Martini style

Martini Henry actions are forged. Some late Webley made Greeners are cast but Most Greeners are forged. They Francottes were forged

Martini's weren't designed for high pressure, but handle higher pressures quite well.

A good 7 MM cartridge would be 7-30 Waters. Want a good 7 MM Wild cat neck down a .303 or 30-40 Krag.

.30/40 as mentioned as as well as .303 good way to go in the "30 cal" range.

Wild cats Neck either 30/40 or .303 to .338.

38/55 as mentioned as well as the 375 2 1/2 Flanged NE. I have a .375 2 1/2 NE Flanged and it is a good and pleasant shooting rifle.

U.S. Martini's were orignally chambered in 45 Turkish, 45/70 50/70 and 45/50.

A really good Martini cartridge is the 500/450 Musklet No.2

Should you live in an area where rouge elephant or raging Cape Buffalo are a problem, try the 577 2 3/4 Nitro Express, I got one of those that I haven't fired yet.

Douglas,
I shot a 577 NE on my stint in SA and it ain't no plinker. Matter of fact it hurt me as bad as I ever want to be hurt on that end of a gun. I still get twitchy when I look at that case setting on my reloading bench.
As to strength of the Martini action, the Brits reworked a bunch of the originals to take the 303, not what I would call an anemic cartridge. There are a couple wildcats on the 303, like the 303-35 or 303-375 that I thought would be interesting. The 375 that Douglas has is a neat round, although I'm not sure how expensive the brass is.
+1 on the 40-65, but then I like 40s. It is easy to load for and recoil isn't that bad. Personally I like the octagon barrels, but the period sporting Martinis had round barrels. In any case they are unigue rifles and get attention when you go somewhere that folks aren't used to seeing them.

Bob

[missionary5155]

Good morning If there is a chunk of brass long enough in 38 caliber to righteously propel a 350 grain boolit that is what I would go with. I like 38´s ! Even a 35-55 but with a throated chamber to get 65-70 grains of 2F... Then put a fast enough twist for that big boolit and take on any walking critter in my back yard.
God Bless you in this endevor..

[Boz330]

Good morning If there is a chunk of brass long enough in 38 caliber to righteously propel a 350 grain boolit that is what I would go with. I like 38´s ! Even a 35-55 but with a throated chamber to get 65-70 grains of 2F... Then put a fast enough twist for that big boolit and take on any walking critter in my back yard.
God Bless you in this endevor..

38-50 Remington Hepburn.

Bob

[Kraschenbirn]

Not long ago a friend had a Martini-Henry (1887 BSA mfg) rebarreled to .44-77 Sharps. He was still working up loads when the weather turned foul but said his initial results looked "reasonably good." (This guy is a former BP bench-rester and his concept of a "reasonably good" group would have most of us framing the target for eternal posterity.)

Something that might be worth considering.

Bill

[rhbrink]

How about a 38-56, a necked down 45-70, it has a long neck and holds enough powder to make it interesting should handle a 350 gr. bullet depending on the twist.

[Wayne Smith]

Humh, some very fertile thinking here. I appreciate all the input. I seem to be partial to the .40s as you are to the .38s, Missionary. I currently have a 40-70BN 2.1" Sharps, a .405 Winchester, and a 10.5x47mm as well as a couple of .40 pistols. I've looked longingly at the .38-40 in revolver and rifle but haven't jumped yet. I'll be satisfied with my 44-40 triplet (pistols & rifle). 40-65 or 40-70SS might be interesting. I hadn't thought about the Kraig, but my concern about .30 cal boolits and hunting is still running around in my mind. The Kraig made it's reputation with 220gr condom bullets, after all. So did the 30-30 - condom bullets, I mean. Going after Boar or Bear (Black) I think I want a greater frontal section on my boolits.

Yes, I have read Ned Roberts on bear hunting in New Hampshire! But then he was carrying a muzzle loader, comparing single and double barrel muzzle loaders in bear hunting. The Martini may not be as fast as a No. 1 or even my Encore to reload, but it's fast enough.

I definitely do not want to duplicate the weight of my Sharps. Half round tapered or round tapered are my real choices for barrel contour. Yes, the originals were all round, but who says this is gonna be an original??

PS Ned Robert's story is in his Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle, and it's a good read

PPS Missionary, take a look at my son's blog: http:/UsefulReligion.blogspot.com and let me know what you think

[Boz330]

If you want more punch in a 40 how about a 40-82 Win. or Crossno. Brass can be made from 45-90. Probably be cheaper than 40-70SS. With a good size meplat it would take bear pretty easy.

Bob

[Wayne Smith]

Yeah, but will it fit in the Martini action? I don't think a 45-90 will. Its a matter of the angle of entry. Not knowing how long the 40-82 is does handicap me, of course. I'm at work so I can't reference COW.

[Boz330]

Yeah, but will it fit in the Martini action? I don't think a 45-90 will. Its a matter of the angle of entry. Not knowing how long the 40-82 is does handicap me, of course. I'm at work so I can't reference COW.

Wayne,
I tend to think it will, but if I remember I'll check it when I get home. I have both 577-450 and 303. The big hole in the 577 would probaby let it turn the corner so the 303 would be a better indicator. If DD's 375 makes it the 40-82 might as well.


Bob

[oldhickory]

A nice medium weight barrel in .38/55 would be just right if it were mine.:mrgreen:

[SharpsShooter]

I like the 40-70SS, 38-55 and the 30-40. You can't go wrong with either one. Tapered octagon is my vote.

SS

[SharpsShooter]

The 40-82.....ain't cheap
http://www.ammo-one.com/40-82WIN.html


http://www.ammo-one.com/40-82WCFumcSolid.jpg


SS

[The Double D]

I don't think we established which Martini you have. Which Martini do you have?

Pacific Tool has had some of the Reamers we have mentioned on sale. I bought a .375 2 1/5 NE reamer recently. $66.

Brass from Buffalo.

I'm not sure it will turn the corner, but the 40 Maynard sound interesting. Uses 30/40 Krag or .303 Brass blown out.

[Boz330]

Yeah, but will it fit in the Martini action? I don't think a 45-90 will. Its a matter of the angle of entry. Not knowing how long the 40-82 is does handicap me, of course. I'm at work so I can't reference COW.


Nope it won't turn the corner, but the 40-65 will. I'm not sure about the length of the 40-70SS but I think that you might have the same problem there. One of the 40 BNs would probably work.

Bob

[Wayne Smith]

I don't think we established which Martini you have. Which Martini do you have?

Pacific Tool has had some of the Reamers we have mentioned on sale. I bought a .375 2 1/5 NE reamer recently. $66.

Brass from Buffalo.

I'm not sure it will turn the corner, but the 40 Maynard sound interesting. Uses 30/40 Krag or .303 Brass blown out.

It's one of the early, full size (# 1?) cast actions. When I got it it was a .303 smoothbore guard gun.

[exblaster]

I just did a large frame in 30/40. I used a Springfield two grove barrel and it shoots grate. My action had been converted to a .22 club gun in the U. K. back in the day so it required replacement of the lever.
I would recommend this caliber as brass and molds are readily available. As stated before the actions were forged unless it is a Greener shot gun so the strength of the action will not cause problems.


Exblaster

[Lloyd Smale]

50 alaskan

[The Double D]

It's one of the early, full size (# 1?) cast actions. When I got it it was a .303 smoothbore guard gun.


None of the Original Martini Henry's later converted to .303 were cast, they are all forged.

What markings on on the gun and where?

Llyod will the 50 Alaskan turn the corner and feed in a Martini.

[Wayne Smith]

LLoyd, you just like big boolits! If I was going to go .50 I'd probably go 50-70 just for the hell of it. May do that when I work on my RB action. I think this one will be a .40 something, and 40-65 looks good, in a half round configured barrel. Tapered enough to be light enough to carry.

40-65 is a .406" isn't it?

[Boz330]

New barrels are .408.

Bob

[The Double D]

What ever you cartridge you decide on what ever you do, make a barrel stub first chambered for your selected cartridge and see if it will feed.

If you need to grind the the feed ramp to get it to fit then don't because that breech block is also your locking lugs.

[pietro]

[I've thought of 7x57, one of my favorite cartridges, but 7x57R cases are likely the problem. Granted, I haven't yet looked for them. I've got two 30-30's or I'd go that way.]

The 7-30 Waters.

[tom barthel]

Why not split the difference and go with a .35 based on whatever existing case that works? There is .35 rem., 35 .30-30, 35 .303, 35.3040K. Or you could pick a usable case and go with a .37 caliber. There is .38-55 and .375 Winchester. Or, you could neck up any of the other cases mentioned. I've never done this but, if money and interest allowed, I'd go with a .35.
Enjoy
Tom

[Wayne Smith]

[I've thought of 7x57, one of my favorite cartridges, but 7x57R cases are likely the problem. Granted, I haven't yet looked for them. I've got two 30-30's or I'd go that way.]

The 7-30 Waters.

I don't think that's a rimmed cartridge, is it?

Tom, I know what you are saying with the .35. Necking the 30-30 up or the 30-40 up to .35 is an option, and .35 is the most efficient. Logic may lean toward the .35, emotion leans toward the .40. Available molds probably lean toward the .35, as well, although I haven't checked. I have an RCBS 40-400CSA mold already, don't have a .35 other than pistol molds.

[Boz330]

7MM Waters is a necked down 30-30. I have one in a small Martini action. Dynamite little rifle, fast, light, and low recoil.

Bob

[rockrat]

You could chamber it for 38-72Win and form them from 405Win brass. You could first try the 38-55 and if you want more horsepower, then rechamber to 38-72Win.

[andym79]

Very old post I know, but is it established that the 40-82 will not make the turn into the chamber?

[RED BEAR]

If you don't want the recoil of 45/70 how bout 45 long colt? It can be loaded pretty stout in this type of gun with out the recoil.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Rimmed 35 Rem. Standard 35 Rem chamber with a rim for 303 British. 303 British brass sized and shortened gives you a rimmed 35 Rem. OR a 303 British.

[fiberoptik]

+1 for 30-40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andym79]

I believe the GP was chambered in 12G 2 3/4" (70mm) so in theory anything with an COL of 2.75" should fit!

[NorthMoccasin]

a 375x444 should check all the boxes.. Ken waters wrote it up in handloader as the "375 express". brass is easy, redding has dies. I have one in a 24" TC contender and its awesome.

[BigEyeBob]

I am having a Martini action fixed and will soon have to make a decision, what caliber do I want in it? I have delusions of 9.3x74R, but I'm sure that will be too long. Yes, I've thought of 45-70, but I'm not sure I want one that kicks that much. I'm not committed to a BP cartridge for this, as long as I can keep it to approximately 7x57 pressures. Yeah, I've thought of 7x57, one of my favorite cartridges, but 7x57R cases are likely the problem. Granted, I haven't yet looked for them. I've got two 30-30's or I'd go that way.

I would like it to be a cast shooter, and that causes me to question the 7mm size, at least for hunting. Yeah, I'd like to take it into the woods at some point. Yes, I know, the 45-70 is very versitile, I have the Collar Button mold from NEI. And the only 45-70 I have now is the Encore barrel, all 20" of it.

I have a stock blank and have to send that off to be cut. Have to decide on the external dimensions of the barrel first. Round, octagonal, or half-round? I've always liked the half-round but not sure how it will look on a Martini.

Anyway, several of you have thought out these things, and I would like to hear some of your musing.

What about 375 x2 1/2 " flanged nitro express .A friend has just finished a large frame Martini in 577 x2 1/2 "nitro and its a treat .A classic british rifle should be chambered in a classic british cartridge .My opinion only .

[andym79]

Gee if a 577 2 1/2 works why wouldn't a 40-82 basically a 408 2 1/2"

Did the block need any altering?

[Goatwhiskers]

Well got in on this kinda late but here goes. Way back in '69 I acquired a Martini, originally .303 and sleeved to .22RF by W.W. Greener. Got a 26" .30 cal. tube from Mr. Ackley and chambered it to 30/40AI, then stocked it with crotch cut walnut from Missouri. Wish I knew how to post a pic. Made a custom scope mount over the chamber area. I shoot 180gr Hornady RN pushed by 49gr of H4831, gives me a screaming 2200fps always 3 inside 3/4" at 100yds. One shot one kill. Only thing bugs me is that my son has no interest in handloading, wants to know if he can shoot factory garbage in it. Guess when I'm gone it won't matter much. GW

[marlinman93]

Boy, I hope after 10 years Wayne wasn't still waiting for more replies before he picked a caliber!!!

[Wayne Smith]

Actually it's worse than that - my gunsmith retired, took everything home to make the gun, didn't, and died. I lost it all. Took the money I had saved to pay him and bought the 40 caliber flintlock and now have an Encore barrel in 25 Krag AI. God is good.

[Outpost75]

If an older iron action, and if a longer case is not going to clear the locking block and eject, consider the 10x25mm Rimmed, which resembles a grown up .297 Morris Tube in .40 cal. With Trail Boss or black powder this is a subsonic, big-bore rook rifle.

With smokeless it aproximates the .38-40 Winchester or .40-50 Sharps, depending upon loading.

The case is simple to make by necking down Starline .44 Russian brass. No trimming or reaming of brass is needed. The case capacity is 4.5 grains of Trail Boss, 16 grains of IMR4227 or 21 grains of FFg Black. Use a Green Mountain 10mm / .38-40 barrel with 1:16" twist.

Accurate cuts the molds in 220-grain, 252-grain or 260-grain.

237485237486237487

John Taylor has the Manson chambering and die reamers I had made, and can use them to do your rifle and loading dies. The long round with 260-grain bullet fits the New Model Ruger Vaquero cylinder and approximates .45 Colt energy with 16 grs. of IMR4227 from a 5-inch barrel.

237484

[Reverend Al]

+1 on the .38-55 Winchester ... it's a perfect fit in a large action Martini. Mine is a ton of fun to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/1mYpAmw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/b7qJbZc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/saJNLkb.jpg