Inflation--what's happened to our dollar.

[gbrown]

I've seen a lot about inflation in the last few months. I realize as our government prints more unsupported dollars that the purchasing power goes down. I am very familiar with economics, had a lot of it in my college days. Anyway, one of my grandson's went out with a girl friend the other night, went to a movie, had some snacks there, and filled up his car. It was about 80-85 dollars. Was thinking it about it this morning, for some unapparent reason, and thought, when I was his age, I could take a girl out, go to a movie, have supper at a nice place and fill up my car for $20.(Mid 60's) So I come to my computer and look up what $20 in 1964 would be equal to in today's dollars. $183. WOW, all I can say. Had no idea. We had some pretty steep inflation back in the late 70's, early 80's, but never realized how much we have lost. Really sad. I will say this, back then, in the summers, while not in school, I worked as a laborer in the oilfields. Pay was minimum wage, $1.25 an hour. Overtime--plenty of it was $1.80. Was able too buy a car, go to college, I paid for, and have a good time.

[Winger Ed.]

It's relative.

In 1970, min, wage was $1.15. I worked at a restaraunt while in High School for $1.35. Gas was $.33 a gallon.
In one hour, I could buy almost 4 gallons of gas.

Now, min. wage is $7.50 or so, and a entry level job pays about $10. an hour. Gas here runs around $2.60-2.80.
In an hour a entry level job's pay can buy almost 4 gallons of gas.

Other things have tracked along about the same. Some things are way more expensive,
some are cheaper now than ever.

In the 90s a state of the art computer was around $2,000. Now, for that price you can get a really good one too.
The $2,000. 1998 model has less power than a decent wrist watch does now.
Same with TVs. In the late 60s the big console in your living room was about $600.
Check out what $600. buys today at Walmart.

When this topic comes up, I'm reminded of what I heard a long time ago-
As a kid, one of my buddy's Dad was saying that when he was a kid, yeah,,, things were cheaper:
The big problem then was when gas was less than 10 cents a gallon, nobody had 10 cents.

[BJK]

It amounts to a permanent and hidden tax since the go'vermin prints the fiat $, spends it first, then gives the $ to us and that hits every one of US in the wallet, savings accounts, 401k, yada, yada. If it's $ it's affected. The only way to beat it that I know of is to buy a tangible item that can be resold after the inflation has leveled off then you get your spending power back if you chose the right item to invest in.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

It's relative.

In 1970, min, wage was $1.15. I worked at a restaraunt while in High School for $1.35. Gas was $.33 a gallon.
In one hour, I could buy almost 4 gallons of gas.

Now, min. wage is $7.50 or so, and a entry level job pays about $10. an hour. Gas here runs around $2.60-2.80.
In an hour a entry level job's pay can buy almost 4 gallons of gas.

Other things have tracked along about the same. Some things are way more expensive,
some are cheaper now than ever.

In the 90s a state of the art computer was around $2,000. Now, for that price you can get a really good one too.
The $2,000. 1998 model has less power than a decent wrist watch does now.
Same with TVs. In the late 60s the big console in your living room was about $600.
Check out what $600. buys today at Walmart.

When this topic comes up, I'm reminded of what I heard a long time ago-
As a kid, one of my buddy's Dad was saying that when he was a kid, yeah,,, things were cheaper:
The big problem then was when gas was less than 10 cents a gallon, nobody had 10 cents.

It is not relative. In 1963 my wife and I bought are first house. it cost $18000. We had a new house full of new furniture,one year old car. Our house payments were never over $130 per month and that include property taxes and insurance. I was making about $250 per hour. We had our first child that year. Total cost for baby including hospital cost us less than $500. I cannot even calculate what I just described would cost today. Never mind the fact that all the good jobs have been shipped over seas. I see young men everyday moving around on skate boards. They can't afford a car much less a family and a house payment. No it is not relative.

[10x]

It is not "Inflation". It is the devaluation of the hours you work to earn that dollar.
if you worked for 1 hour to buy a burger in 2000 and you now have to work for 1.5 hours to buy that same product then the value of your time has been devalued.
if you saved your money from 2000, it will buy you much less now than it would then. The work you did in 2000 has been devalued if you saved the money from 2000 and delayed purchase of product until now

[farmbif]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

[Nobade]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

And the fed is in a tight spot at the moment. Slow inflation by raising interest rates and the stock market craters. Or keep interest at nearly zero and runaway inflation will be here soon. So far they have favored the market, but the whole thing has to eventually crash and the longer they keep it going the more painful it's going to be.

[hoodat]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

With that outlook, you'll just love our coming socialist system. :roll: jd

[Butzbach]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

No. The pie, thanks to capitalism and the invisible hand of the market, is infinite. Quit complaining, reach up, and cut yourself off a piece.

[popper]

favored the market, but the whole thing has to eventually crash
same occurrence in 29.

[Winger Ed.]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

Kinda makes ya want to study, work hard, and get rich yourself doesn't it?

[scattershot]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer


Sorry, it’s not a zero sum game.

[Scrounge]

I've seen a lot about inflation in the last few months. I realize as our government prints more unsupported dollars that the purchasing power goes down. I am very familiar with economics, had a lot of it in my college days. Anyway, one of my grandson's went out with a girl friend the other night, went to a movie, had some snacks there, and filled up his car. It was about 80-85 dollars. Was thinking it about it this morning, for some unapparent reason, and thought, when I was his age, I could take a girl out, go to a movie, have supper at a nice place and fill up my car for $20.(Mid 60's) So I come to my computer and look up what $20 in 1964 would be equal to in today's dollars. $183. WOW, all I can say. Had no idea. We had some pretty steep inflation back in the late 70's, early 80's, but never realized how much we have lost. Really sad. I will say this, back then, in the summers, while not in school, I worked as a laborer in the oilfields. Pay was minimum wage, $1.25 an hour. Overtime--plenty of it was $1.80. Was able too buy a car, go to college, I paid for, and have a good time.

I grew up in the 60's and 70's. Mom bought a 1965 Mustang for $2500 in 1965, when I was 10 years old. Just looked at the Ford Mustang page for the 2021 Ford Mustang GT Fastback, which I believe is the equivalent of her car. Having one built starts at $40, 285 for the base model. I don't think hers was the base model. That's what, 16x the price she paid? Hers had the 302ci engine, but the new one has 460HP in their 302. I don't think hers was that powerful. Gas stations across the street from our apartment were having a gas war. $0.17/gallon. I don't know what minimum wage was then, if there even was one. Eight years later, when I got my first job, I was making $1.25/hour minimum wage working at K-mart for the 3 months that job lasted. Then I enlisted. The sign in the USAF recruiters office said "$326.10 per month, three hots and a cot." I was making about $216 a month gross at K-mart.

In 1984, while I was in Turkey, I got a pay raise from Uncle Sam. My paycheck went to $1900/month. At the time, the President of the Republic of Turkey was making about $1500/month equivalent in Turkish Lira, which was around 180TL/dollar. The Senior Pilot Colonel who was the commander of the Turkish side of Incirlik AS was making around $300/month equivalent. So was my friend Mustafa's uncle, who ran the local Sears store. No, it wasn't Sears Roebuck. He sold pistachio nuts, carpets, meerschaum pipes, brasswork, knickknacks, and some jewelry. Turkey suffered, and still does, hyperinflation. Their inflation rate is upwards of 17% right now.

I was there from April 1983 to May 1985, and returned to the country, but not that base for a year in October 1986. A 1-kilo loaf of bread was a dime when we got there. A kilo of fresh cherries picked that day, or maybe the day before, was fifty cents. Wife and I, and our neighbor and his wife, went to the Sultan, fanciest restaurant in Adana. and ate the fanciest meal on their menu. Taxi from the base to the restaurant, and back to the base, then the four of us went to the Baskin-Robbins on base and all got ice cream. I spent a $20 bill for the whole outing. I went to McDonalds the other day for breakfast to go. Two McGriddles, and a Big Breakfast was about $20. Last time we ate a "fancy" meal at a "fancy" restaurant it was something like $85 before the tip, and that was last year, just before the lockdowns. Every thing is going to go up in price. Lots of "free" money and limited supply will drive it. I wouldn't be surprised to find that in a few years, we'll be looking for bags of hominy for a nickel again, like my grandparents talked about from when they were newlyweds during the Great Depression. First, you had to get the nickel.

Bill

[popper]

Fed aims at 2% inflation every year! That is their goal. Compound that over 50 yrs and see what you get. Plus many items are NOT in the 'inflation' calculations.
Inflation/deflation are the same, you just get less for more. Look at the price to earning ration of stocks.

[GhostHawk]

Trick is they adjust what items are in the "Basket" used to calculate inflation in order to hold it at 2%.

They know in reality it is at least quadruple that. Food prices at fast food has just about doubled in the last 2 years.

But the worst is medical.

Doctors got together some 15 years ago. "Government only wants to pay us half of anything we charge" So they jacked their prices across the board on average 40%. Been that way for a decade and a half. Insurance rates go up to pay for it. And it is ALL coming out of our pockets one way or another.

[ourflat]

And the fed is in a tight spot at the moment. Slow inflation by raising interest rates and the stock market craters. Or keep interest at nearly zero and runaway inflation will be here soon. So far they have favored the market, but the whole thing has to eventually crash and the longer they keep it going the more painful it's going to be.

Yep….

[JRLesan]

302 engine did not exist in 1965; lots of inaccurate info has become 'gospel' if repeated often enough...

[JSnover]

It is not relative. In 1963 my wife and I bought are first house. it cost $18000. We had a new house full of new furniture,one year old car. Our house payments were never over $130 per month and that include property taxes and insurance. I was making about $250 per hour. We had our first child that year. Total cost for baby including hospital cost us less than $500. I cannot even calculate what I just described would cost today. Never mind the fact that all the good jobs have been shipped over seas. I see young men everyday moving around on skate boards. They can't afford a car much less a family and a house payment. No it is not relative.
It IS relative. I bought my first house - just barely - in 1993. My ex- still has that house and I'm still paying for it, but the last one I bought was two months ago at double the price of the first one and I was able to put a LOT more down this time.
It's about improving your own circumstances, which is still possible.

[hoodat]

Using automobiles as a comparison for calculating inflation isn't hardly possible I think. Even the base model cars of today make the cars of the sixties more akin to horse and buggies than a modern vehicle.

Whether you like it or not, the new ones are crammed so full of space age technology and luxuries that the old ones didn't have, that the cost's simply can't be compared. And don't forget that most of todays cars will easily clock 300,000 miles, with minimal care and maintenance. Compare that to the "good old days" when you started looking for a new car, or at least a new motor at 100,000 miles.

I miss the old "Plain Jane" models of my youth and early adult life though, and wish they still made something utilitarian like that, but with modern tech that works so well these days. jd

[rbuck351]

You cannot calculate inflation by raising prices or wages because that is not inflation. Inflation is the increase in the money supply which causes the dollar value to decrease. The more of something that exists, the less it's worth relative to things that are scarce. When govt spends more than it takes in and then creates more money to pay for deficit spending, it is an increase in the money supply. That causes prices to rise because the goods and services are now worth more of the less valuable dollars. Wages have to go up to match the decreased value of the dollar.

When the govt spends 6 trillion more than it takes in and then just creates that 6 trillion from thin air to add to the current money supply, that 6T is a % of the previous money supply. That % is the inflation rate and it's a whole lot more than the 2% they are trying to make everyone believe.

It used to take about 18 months for the inflation of the money supply to work its way to the increase in prices and wages but I think it is much less now. And now they act like 6T is nothing. Maybe our schools no longer teach the Weimar Republic in our current history classes. I am afraid that is where we are headed.

[1hole]

Fed aims at 2% inflation every year! That is their goal. Compound that over 50 yrs and see what you get. Plus many items are NOT in the 'inflation' calculations.
Inflation/deflation are the same, you just get less for more. Look at the price to earning ration of stocks.

Nothing is free. Political "Liberal" politicians easily play head games with gullible and low information voters. Politicians, most of them anyway, are fully aware that, like water seeking to be level, the iron relationship between cost and income will always maintain about the same balance.

Gullible people who can't think passed their wallet really like the idea of government forcing hourly incomes up because it seems to make the world a better place "for the little guy". All it really does is move the numbers for a moment. Things soon find their new balance but with little no real impact in the end.

I mean, if a socialist command economy works why be so cheep about a "minimum wage", why not make it $35 an hour and do "poor" people some real good? Well, the right answer is because it would end up with a Big Mac, fry and Coke for lunch costing about $45! With unearned government mandating higher hourly rates, those folk who live in poverty will effectively still be just as poor as they are now but with a lot more Monopoly dollars in their pockets!

Inflation; a new rifle and the number of hours to obtain it are still about the same as they were in 1965 but my rabid Democrat and union buddies only chortle about how much more they "make" today; yeah, they get more Monopoly money but there's little difference in what all that money gets them and that's all that really matters!

[Scrounge]

302 engine did not exist in 1965; lots of inaccurate info has become 'gospel' if repeated often enough...
The 2021 Mustang Fastback GT does, however, have a a 302 according to their website. Mom's 1965 probably had a 289. Essentially the same engine block as the 302.

Besides I was speaking from my memories as a 10yo kid. That was over 50 years ago. Not claiming it as gospel.

Bill

[snowwolfe]

Ya'all can keep cars from the 60's. I'll gladly pay for all the air bags, antilock brakes, corrosion resistant panels, clear coated paint, blind spot monitoring, vastly improved stereos, 5000-10000 oil changes, better fuel economy, more power, crew cab pickups, and I could go on and on. Its pretty easy to get 300,000 miles out of a modern vehicle. In the 60's you were lucky to break 100K without rebuilding the engine

[GOPHER SLAYER]

It IS relative. I bought my first house - just barely - in 1993. My ex- still has that house and I'm still paying for it, but the last one I bought was two months ago at double the price of the first one and I was able to put a LOT more down this time.
It's about improving your own circumstances, which is still possible.

I get what you are saying. Let's all just quit complaining, improve our circumstance and get rich. Geez, why didn't I think of that. Once again, it is not relative.

[popper]

Fed meeting notes are about to come out. More of the same BS, lots of demand (for cheap $) and dwindling supply? Basically, they don't know how to solve the financial problems, won't change and keep promoting what makes them look good. Fed reserve was started to avoid short term crashes in $ supply now tries to control the county's economy, not their job and they don't know how. They just provide profit for the market anymore. Same with FTC and big board controls.

[beshears]

Wife found a pay book for a past relative from 1776 from the American Army. He was paid $1 per month and on discharge received $3, three months pay.

[Fishman]

Inflation is an unfortunate reality, but improving your circumstances is something you have to decide to do, and there is a bit of luck, fortune, or God's blessing as well, depending on what you believe.

I started with nothing but an old pickup, a small family. Grew up in a house with no air conditioning or tv's and wood heat. That nothing I had was offset with a good work ethic and a reasonable amount of smarts as well as a wife who had the same. Fast forward 30 some-odd years and my wife is driving one of those new Mustang GT's mentioned and my 3 year old platinum truck is paid for, just like my home and property. Those that claim it is not possible for them are right, you have to believe in yourself before anyone else does. I hope this doesn't sound like I am bragging, although I am pleased that I have been blessed with such good fortune. For me the key is/was taking responsibility for my own happiness and working on the things I could change while praying about the rest.

Oh, and for the first 20 years, not much changed and it would have been easy to lose hope, but the last 10 years have proved that this approach works.

[beechbum444]

Inflation, power of the dollar and all that stuff…. At the end of WW2 all the axis powers hand a place at the table that decided the worth of money , this is the reason that the American dollar is worth what the us says it’s worth… the others countries that didn’t have a seat at that table are on a quicker decent to economical disaster than the axis powers post WW2…. Examples of these can be found in the Republic of the Congo’s , etc. They were not at the table when the power to develop , print and control money was divided up… All counties are on a controlled decent in economic oblivion, but only a few control the brakes, be thankful we ( the us) are a Major controller of the brakes , otherwise …. 50,000 ( insert monetary name here ) would not buy a loaf of bread .. the misconception that most are under , including myself until a while ago , is that the American dollar will one day be worth nothing, it will never be worth nothing , it’s just that the perception of other nations money is 1) on a quicker decent/ deterioration rate than ours and 2) they have no place at the table to control it….our dollar is worth whatever the folks control say it’s worth ….

[beechbum444]

P.S. we gave it a name “ inflation “ , it’s just another boogie man ….

[hoodat]

Here is my defense against inflation.

As soon as you start earning money in this world, immediately take 10% and give it to the Lord. THEN, take another 10%, and pay it to yourself. DO NOT SPEND THIS MONEY FOR ANYTHING, except safe and secure long term investments that will grow over the years.

You might notice, even if you're a doofus in math, that this leaves you with 80% of your money to piss away however you want. While you are young, enjoy this stupidity, and even find ways to earn more to have fun with. But PLEASE, learn to spend only that 80% of your earnings. If you can't do this, you will more than likely doom yourself to a life of poverty and indebtedness. You will train yourself to spend more than you earn, and once you do that, you will NEVER be responsible with your money or give any to the Lord.

While you are having a ball pissing away 80% of your earnings, keep your eyes open for a spouse that you would like to spend your life with. Don't rush this, or become pregnant with the wrong girl. Choose wisely and carefully, and get married. After you have done this, --- STAY MARRIED.

If you start your life with these simple rules, and keep on the rails, you will prosper and be happy and secure. You will also have trouble and setbacks, but the Lord and your 10% will stay with you and keep you secure.

If this sounds boring and not fun, just compare it to working till you're 80 out of necessity, and never having any extra cash to buy your prescriptions with. or never owning a home, or a boat, or actually owning your car. Giving all your extra money to your "wrong choice wife" and whatever kids she birthed that you won't ever really know.

I won't go on and on about this, but believe me, I speak from experience, either personal or witnessed in my life. jd

[GregLaROCHE]

I in-listed just when the US military just after we went off the gold standard. I was paid $288 per month. As I progressed in pay grade, It a got a little bit more for this and that, but prices kept going up too. We were lucky to have the base commissary and of course the inexpensive enlisted men’s club for our alcohol needs.

Today everyone needs to be aware of the big time inflation that’s getting ready to come, because of the Covid dilemma. That’s the only way the government will be able to pay for it.

If you have a lot off cash in the bank or under your mattress, it’s going to have a lot less value in the future. Think about home/life improvements and put your nest egg where interest rates will constantly increases with inflation. It’s probably a good time to buy a firearm that will appreciate. Don’t buy into a CD, unless the interest rate is really favorable and your not locked in for too long.

[farmbif]

ok, I'm not an economist, never went to business school or anything like that, but did have my own successful business, I had to keep prices in line with competition or lower to be competetive and keep customers coming in and leaving satisfied. I didn't cut corners but kept overhead as low as possible. that's the extent of my expertise with that said.
current inflation that I see right now seems most extreme in beef prices and lumber prices.
if the ranchers that raise the cattle are not getting any more money than they were 2 years ago before retail prices skyrocketed where is all that additional money going. its either to the meat packers, there are own 4 or 5 companies that control 90+% of that in our country and then there are the distributors of which I have no idea how many there are that control that 90+% of the market and then there are the grocery stores/retailers. Same with lumber. the loggers are not making any more than they were 5 years ago, the ones I know in this area anyway. They are not rich people, they have to work every day to keep the bills paid to have a place to live, keep the lights on and keep a vehicle on the road. The price of a 2x4 is 3x what it was 5 years ago. where is all the money going. it isn't going to guys at the saw mill or the people that load your truck at home depot.
so who is getting all that difference in what these products cost?
Say you have a decent job and make lets say $40/hr. Are you rich? when you have to pay these inflated prices on stuff it doesn't make you richer it makes you poorer. does it or does it not?>

[sureYnot]

Spot on, Greg.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[gbrown]

Using automobiles as a comparison for calculating inflation isn't hardly possible I think. Even the base model cars of today make the cars of the sixties more akin to horse and buggies than a modern vehicle.

Whether you like it or not, the new ones are crammed so full of space age technology and luxuries that the old ones didn't have, that the cost's simply can't be compared. And don't forget that most of todays cars will easily clock 300,000 miles, with minimal care and maintenance. Compare that to the "good old days" when you started looking for a new car, or at least a new motor at 100,000 miles.

I miss the old "Plain Jane" models of my youth and early adult life though, and wish they still made something utilitarian like that, but with modern tech that works so well these days. jd
I agree whole heartedly. That is also why you cannot do any type of mathematical comparison, such as value to value. Between the technology you mention, the safety equipment, and fuel mileage constraints added to the mix, there is no way to compare the 1960's car and today's.

[Nobade]

My standard of value used to be the Colt SAA. In 1873 until they quit making them, they cost an average working man a month's wages. Now you can get an Italian made one for a week's work or less, or a real one for two month's work. Everything is messed up now!

[bedbugbilly]

What happened to our dollar?

Answer is pretty simple - look no further than the new White House Assisted Living Center - and all of the resident's caretakers in the New Democrat Socialist Communist Party.

There is one simple rule that every businessman oe businesswoman needs to know to survive in business and grow . . . . YOU CANNOT SPEND MORE MONEY THAT THE CASH FLOE YOU HAVE COMING IN.

Unfortunately, politicians have never learned test lesson . . . .

[JSnover]

I get what you are saying. Let's all just quit complaining, improve our circumstance and get rich. Geez, why didn't I think of that. Once again, it is not relative.

Your first house cost $18,000 in 1963. What was the market value of that house in 1993?
Your wages in in 1963: Assuming that job still existed and you were working it, how much did your wages increase by 1993?
Here we are, not far from 2023 and if your income and circumstances are the same now as they were almost 60 years ago, you have my deepest sympathy because if you earned $9,000 per year back then and $9,000 per year in 2020, you are well below the poverty line.
On the other hand, $9,000/year in 1963 - adjusted for inflation because it's all relative - equals just over $79,000 in 2021. So if all you did was keep up with inflation you did ok. And even if you stuck to the US median household income you would have brought home $68,400 last year.

[sparky45]

Here is my defense against inflation.

As soon as you start earning money in this world, immediately take 10% and give it to the Lord. THEN, take another 10%, and pay it to yourself. DO NOT SPEND THIS MONEY FOR ANYTHING, except safe and secure long term investments that will grow over the years.

You might notice, even if you're a doofus in math, that this leaves you with 80% of your money to piss away however you want. While you are young, enjoy this stupidity, and even find ways to earn more to have fun with. But PLEASE, learn to spend only that 80% of your earnings. If you can't do this, you will more than likely doom yourself to a life of poverty and indebtedness. You will train yourself to spend more than you earn, and once you do that, you will NEVER be responsible with your money or give any to the Lord.

While you are having a ball pissing away 80% of your earnings, keep your eyes open for a spouse that you would like to spend your life with. Don't rush this, or become pregnant with the wrong girl. Choose wisely and carefully, and get married. After you have done this, --- STAY MARRIED.

If you start your life with these simple rules, and keep on the rails, you will prosper and be happy and secure. You will also have trouble and setbacks, but the Lord and your 10% will stay with you and keep you secure.

If this sounds boring and not fun, just compare it to working till you're 80 out of necessity, and never having any extra cash to buy your prescriptions with. or never owning a home, or a boat, or actually owning your car. Giving all your extra money to your "wrong choice wife" and whatever kids she birthed that you won't ever really know.

I won't go on and on about this, but believe me, I speak from experience, either personal or witnessed in my life. jd

You seem to have forgotten that TAXES take a Lions share of the 80% you describe as " this leaves you with 80% of your money to piss away however you want."
That 80% really is just around 25~30% in reality.

[1hole]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

Actually, that's a common belief that isn't true.

[downzero]

the rich can't get richer without making the rest of us poorer

But actually that statement is demonstrably false for all of history. It even has a name--the "fixed pie fallacy"--and the fact that you even repeat that statement shows the failings of our education system. The rich get much richer and the poor get a little richer. The rate at which those happen, people may not like, but your statement could not be more false.


For the rest of you, I used to tell my students that if you could come up with a new and better way to measure inflation, every university in the world would give you a Ph.D for it. Even in my class of 30+ students, as long as each of them went to a different graduate school, they could probably do it. The point of that statement is that inflation is difficult to measure, as each measure of inflation leaves behind some useful information, just like a map projection.

One that the government uses is called Consumer Price Index, which while imperfect, captures a lot of the goods and services we regularly buy. You can use this calculator to track the value of the dollar over time using the CPI:

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

The real problem from my perspective isn't inflation, but rather, that about 80% of the work force hasn't had any meaningful real (that is, taking inflation into account) income growth in the last 40 years. My generation is the first to be worse off than our parents by any metric (delaying marriage/childbirth, unable to qualify for home mortgages, no meaningful savings, etc., are common). I don't have an explanation for why that is, as it's complicated. But we've got to figure out a way for some part of the increase in productivity to go to working class people, as the United States has among the most productive labor force per hour worked of all countries, and we work a LOT of hours. We can figure out a way to have more to show for it. We do have to figure out a way for our labor markets to become more competitive though--so that firms compete for workers just like workers compete with each other for jobs. If there's 300 qualified applicants for every job, we'll never see any growth in wages and salaries.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Your first house cost $18,000 in 1963. What was the market value of that house in 1993?
Your wages in in 1963: Assuming that job still existed and you were working it, how much did your wages increase by 1993?
Here we are, not far from 2023 and if your income and circumstances are the same now as they were almost 60 years ago, you have my deepest sympathy because if you earned $9,000 per year back then and $9,000 per year in 2020, you are well below the poverty line.
On the other hand, $9,000/year in 1963 - adjusted for inflation because it's all relative - equals just over $79,000 in 2021. So if all you did was keep up with inflation you did ok. And even if you stuck to the US median household income you would have brought home $68,400 last year.

J, you just don't get it and I doubt if you ever will. I went to work for the phone company in 1956. I married my wife in 1958. She got a job at Woolworth in 1959. She worked five years and quit to have our first child. We had lived on her salary and saved mine. After five years of saving we were able to buy our house and do all the things I told of in my first post. Young couples cannot do what we did for several reasons. One being, those jobs no longer exist. when we bought our first house, one weeks pay had to make the house payment. My wife had quit working so she couldn't contribute to the house payment. Even if she were still working they would only count 10 percent of her income to the hose payment. New houses that are being built in my area start at closet to 400k. Since high paying jobs are scarce, where do young couples come up with the money to buy a house? The government has destroyed the way of life we enjoyed and I don't think it is ever coming back.

[Gator 45/70]

I buy beans,seed's,silver and lead, Rice too, Most are going to be eating dog and then each other before its over with.

[megasupermagnum]

J, you just don't get it and I doubt if you ever will. I went to work for the phone company in 1956. I married my wife in 1958. She got a job at Woolworth in 1959. She worked five years and quit to have our first child. We had lived on her salary and saved mine. After five years of saving we were able to buy our house and do all the things I told of in my first post. Young couples cannot do what we did for several reasons. One being, those jobs no longer exist. when we bought our first house, one weeks pay had to make the house payment. My wife had quit working so she couldn't contribute to the house payment. Even if she were still working they would only count 10 percent of her income to the hose payment. New houses that are being built in my area start at closet to 400k. Since high paying jobs are scarce, where do young couples come up with the money to buy a house? The government has destroyed the way of life we enjoyed and I don't think it is ever coming back.

As a 26 year old man, maybe I can shed some light on how things are for those starting out. A monumental problem those my age are facing is that through school, 4+ year colleges where pushed down our throats to no end. So many fell for it, and are living with crippling debt. Most who go through 4-5 years at a University are looking at $80,000 to $125,000, sometimes more in loans. You have more or less locked yourself in for the next 7 years or better if you did this, longer if you chose a dead end career path. No big surprise, some careers work out better than others. Teachers, and healthcare are two areas a university is a good path.

The crying shame of all this, is there is no reason at all to spend 4+ years at a university. NONE. 2 years at a community college or similar is around $10,000. #1, a good portion of your first two years credits are unrelated to your field, there is no reason to pay more for less. #2, chances are huge that you will change your major at least once, and that is not something you want to pay dearly for. Nobody at 18 years old knows exactly what they want.

When I graduated high school, there was a ton of opportunity for trades, and hard labor. Those who went this path are living great right now, many making $100,000 or more a year, although they are living those jobs, working 70+ hours a week.

The military is as it always was. 4 years of service, and you have a number of options for the future. My brother and his wife did this. Came back, and bought a house right away. The great thing with the military is that if you want a place, you have that funding right NOW.

I did a technical school, 2 years for automation (robotics). Came out of school with no job experience making $24 an hour in small town nowhere. Many places, 3M most notably wanted to pay off all my school's debt to have me work there.

So where does that get us on houses? There was a short window years back, where houses were cheap, but you couldn't get a loan. Then when you could get a loan, the interest rate was very high. For the past few years, the loans and interest have been very low, but houses are high priced if you can even find one you want. I lived 1 year in an apartment. I'm still pissed about it, that is no way for a human being to live. If you can stomach living in town, some of these small towns often have houses for $50,000.

I'll speak only from my perspective, and from rural areas of MN, SD, and ND. The houses simply are not there for sale. If you want one, you have to have a mortgage lined up, cash in hand, and you have to buy the one you want when you see it. There is no haggling, or the next guy will buy it tomorrow. For the past 20 years or so, building construction has been in apartment/condo buildings, and suburb housing tracts. You will catch me dead, frozen to death in the woods before you will see me EVER spend a single cent on one of those suburb housing developments.

You can blame it on what you want, but the opportunity for money is there, just not in the same fields as 60 years ago. If you did make the wrong choices right out of school, you are SOL. There are stupidly expensive houses, but the bigger problem is there are not enough vacant houses. I refuse to call a housing development a house. Those are big condo's. Some areas have trailer parks, but even those seem to be diminishing under these housing developments. There are no "trailer houses" anymore either, they are manufactured homes, and are subject to a ton of regulation outside of a trailer park. My dad told me that in 1994, the year I was born, he bought a trailer house for about $8000. Today, the cheapest manufactured home is around $60,000 new. Sometimes you see older ones for real cheap, but you can't just tow them on your land anymore. Anyone that has worked on an older trailer house knows how they degrade as well.

I rent a house, and I'll probably rent for quite a few more years. I love to blame the government, but they are not all to blame. We are simply overpopulated. There are more human beings in most of the USA now than there is land. As sad as this is to say, I have a feeling in 10-15 years, as a good portion of the baby boomers are dying or going to retirement homes, opportunity for quality housing is going to open up.

[popper]

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/biden-federal-reserve-chair-jerome-powell/2021/07/07/id/1027822/
Biden appointees to the Fed board. Watch out USA.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Mega, what you say is true and the part about too many people is at the root of the problem. We have too many people at a time when robotics is in full swing. Nature used to take care of over population no matter what the species. The bubonic plague killed about a third of the people in Europe, maybe half. When it was over the survivors found they no longer had to serve the master class but could build a better life on their own. Now we have learned to make a drug to stop whatever comes along. We have also made it possible the extend life but not the quality of it.

[JSnover]

J, you just don't get it and I doubt if you ever will. I went to work for the phone company in 1956. I married my wife in 1958. She got a job at Woolworth in 1959. She worked five years and quit to have our first child. We had lived on her salary and saved mine. After five years of saving we were able to buy our house and do all the things I told of in my first post. Young couples cannot do what we did for several reasons. One being, those jobs no longer exist. when we bought our first house, one weeks pay had to make the house payment. My wife had quit working so she couldn't contribute to the house payment. Even if she were still working they would only count 10 percent of her income to the hose payment. New houses that are being built in my area start at closet to 400k. Since high paying jobs are scarce, where do young couples come up with the money to buy a house? The government has destroyed the way of life we enjoyed and I don't think it is ever coming back.
I actually do get it and started out pretty much the same way you did, 30 years later; we both worked and got married, then we had kids, then she stopped working to raise them, then we bought a house.
Guess what I saw when I went to a dozen open-house events a few months ago: Young couples in their 20s, buying their first house, some with children, some without, some pregnant with their first.
The jobs that disappeared in the 60s and 70s have been replaced by jobs that didn't exist back then. Young people are doing exactly what you and I did, just with larger dollar amounts. Houses that are too expensive for young buyers that can't afford them will be bought by older buyers with more money or they'll sit empty and the owner or builder will take a loss.
"High paying jobs" were something other people had when my wife and I were young but we figured out the same thing you figured out: The two of us combined could afford a decent house (mine was a 30 year old ranch - nothing fancy). I know what I'm talking about AND what you're talking about, do you? You've convinced yourself that the sky has already fallen and there's no way anyone can make it in this world, I've heard it from plenty of others. In spite of your claim people are making it in this world, I see them every day. They're the ones who kept working and knew what they wanted.

[gbrown]

My buddy worked in the Denver, CO area. Bought a house 8 years ago, transferred out 4 years ago. Sold the house for 1-1/2 what they paid for it. My oldest grandson and his girlfriend are out there now, young professionals, good high paying jobs. Trying to save for a down-payment, the housing market out there is unbelievable. I don't see how the common folks can make it. Plus , Colorado taxes are not great. I can't imagine living there.

[1hole]

"High paying jobs" were something other people had when my wife and I were young but we figured out the same thing you figured out: The two of us combined could afford a decent house (mine was a 30 year old ranch - nothing fancy). I know what I'm talking about AND what you're talking about, do you? You've convinced yourself that the sky has already fallen and there's no way anyone can make it in this world, I've heard it from plenty of others. In spite of your claim people are making it in this world, I see them every day. They're the ones who kept working and knew what they wanted.

Lots of things make it difficult to impossible for young couples to get into the housing market today but it has never been easy and today's entitlement mindset is the biggest hurdle they face.

We got married right out of high school in '59. We literally had nothing (still have most of it). We rented shelter because we couldn't seriously look at a house until '79. When we finally bought, it was a small place with no HVAC, three tiny bedrooms and 2 very small baths, up an old logging road in the woods some 3 miles from our small town. It was our happy home for the next 9 years.

The major problem I have observed with today's newly married young couples is their sense of entitlement. They expect a low cost new (or at least look new) "starter" house of 2,000+ sq. ft., with a well equipped kitchen (appliances like Mom's, you know), large living and dining rooms, central HVAC, nice furniture, full carpet, fancy light fixtures, etc. I've seen the kids sneer at what they could afford and walk away from it as beneath them.

Young folk standing tall on their own feet while waiting and working towards a goal are strange concepts to many of our coddled kids.