Buckshot Choke

[Mr Peabody]

I shoot the .310 pellets from one of miha's molds. They fit nicely in many different shot cups, either stacks of two or three. I'm really surprised at how well these loads respond to the full choke. 40 years ago it seemed open bores worked the best. What are you finding for a favorite choke shooting the larger pellets?

[6pt-sika]

I load buckshot for guns that do not have screw in chokes and most are choked rather tight . I keep buckshot in all sizes from #3 up to and including 000000 . And true many have said for years larger buck in open chokes and the smaller sizes in tighter . I’ve found best procedure is to try it on paper . I’ve got a fleet of 10 gauge guns that are tight and tighter yet that have done very well with 0000 and 00000 . The 000000 is for my 8 gauge guns only as it doesn’t stack at all in a 10 gauge hull . Anyway if your gun has screw ins try them all you just might be surprised .

[Mr Peabody]

I have been trying them all. Stacking by two's shoots a little tighter groups than the stacking by three's

[jsizemore]

My recovered wads were really chewed up tighter than a modified choke. At cylinder the wad was intact. At modified the petals had small holes where the shot was positioned. Tighter chokes had petals mangled or missing. Shot pattern was bigger too. Depends on your expected target distance what will work for you.

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting isn't it. I'm thinking powder charge(big or medium) has alot to do with it. I'm working with 16 pellet loads of .30 and 14 pellet loads of .31 in a MG-42 wad. With the middle of the road charges I recover the wad intact, larger charges blow them up. Using full choke ported choke tube.

[jsizemore]

Bluedot put a whooping on the wads but Reddot was clean in the barrel, and on the wad and hull.

[longbow]

I have a Lee 00 buck mould and a bunch of shot I cast with it for my 12 ga. but haven't loaded any yet.

Do you guys use plastic wads, load buckshot over wad column (no shotcup) or both?

Depending on buckshot size and shotcup petal thickness it appears that with shotcup 00 buckshot will stack in two's and without shotcup it will stack in three's. I'd figure better to stack in three's but does deformation against the bore ruin patterns?

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

I have been trying them all. Stacking by two's shoots a little tighter groups than the stacking by three's

I meant try the different chokes . You can also check loads in a shot cup vs loads with a gas seal and a mylar or Teflon wrap for slightly more side to side room .

[6pt-sika]

I have a Lee 00 buck mould and a bunch of shot I cast with it for my 12 ga. but haven't loaded any yet.

Do you guys use plastic wads, load buckshot over wad column (no shotcup) or both?

Depending on buckshot size and shotcup petal thickness it appears that with shotcup 00 buckshot will stack in two's and without shotcup it will stack in three's. I'd figure better to stack in three's but does deformation against the bore ruin patterns?

Longbow

I pretty much settled on 0 in a shot cup for the 12 gauge . However in the 10 gauge I’ve done a bunch of different things . Use the SP-10 whole with buck up to 00 . Larger then 00 I usually trim the petals off the SP-10 put a mylar wrap in over the base of the SP-10 then fit whatever size be it 000 , 0000 or 00000 . After I get them placed and pushed down I put in I think it’s 3.2cc of Grex from a Lee dipper . Not saying it’s the best but it meets my parameters snd objectives .

[W.R.Buchanan]

My Browning Buck Special Barrel has a IC choke and it patterns all forms of shot well. It also shoots slugs well. My Vang Comped Barrels shoot OO into 7" at 25 yards and those barrels have been back bored to .745 and then choke down to .730 at the muzzle, which seems kinda like an IC choke too.

Sika: you can say "4/0, 5/0 and 6/0" and save some key strokes, and we won't have to count the Zeros.

I lose track after 3 :holysheep

Randy

[LeonCarr]

With screw in chokes the Extra Full chokes, .685./.690 diameter, seem to be the best performers for everything from 0 Buckshot to Tri-Ball.

With the smaller buckshot sizes from #4 Buckshot to #1 Buckshot, .675/.680 diameter perform the best.

Of the various specialty chokes, the Kicks Buck Kicker has been stellar.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[pmer]

I have a Kicks buckkicker full for a 10 gauge and the first loads that went through it put 16, 00 buck in a 10" circle at 30 yards. Stacks of 2 in a bpi multimetal wad.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks Leon, I use a Bucks Kicker Xfull in one of my 12's

[megasupermagnum]

In the testing I have done, it is very uncommon for a looser choke to pattern tighter than a tighter one. A full choke, something around .040" constriction generally provides as tight of a pattern as you are going to get. Maybe an IM might pattern tighter here and there, but you will be hard pressed to come up with a load that will pattern tighter in a modified than a full.

[6pt-sika]

With screw in chokes the Extra Full chokes, .685./.690 diameter, seem to be the best performers for everything from 0 Buckshot to Tri-Ball.

With the smaller buckshot sizes from #4 Buckshot to #1 Buckshot, .675/.680 diameter perform the best.

Of the various specialty chokes, the Kicks Buck Kicker has been stellar.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
I bought all three sizes of the BuckKicker for my Benelli Montefeltro 12 ga 3” and they do very well or atleast so far with factory 3” loads .

[murf205]

I don't reload buckshot so my experience has been with factory ammo. My best results have been in an 870 Remington Express with the Remchoke Modified and W-W 000 copper plated. The patterns were round and denser than full or imp chokes. I took 10 or 12 deer with that combination and it is a hammer as long as you don't try to make a long range shot. I used it on dog drives and the deer were hauling butt most of the time but I don't remember having to shoot one 2 times.

[longbow]

In the testing I have done, it is very uncommon for a looser choke to pattern tighter than a tighter one. A full choke, something around .040" constriction generally provides as tight of a pattern as you are going to get. Maybe an IM might pattern tighter here and there, but you will be hard pressed to come up with a load that will pattern tighter in a modified than a full.

Does that apply to stacking 00 buck in layers of two in shotcup or layers of three with no shotcup or both?

With regards to stacking in two's or three's... I can fit a layer of three 00 buckshot through a 12 ga. bore fine but when they get to a 0.690" choke they do not fit so I have to think that if shot in say three layers of three that the 00 buckshot would deform quite a bit when swaged through the choke as I assume the pellets would be held in place by acceleration and mass above except for the top layer. So at least two layers of a three x three load would be fairly badly distorted. Is that true?

If loaded in a shotcup they stack in layers of two but have the petals as cushions against the bore and choke so the pellets should be able to squeeze through the choke without as much distortion. If the pellets aren't as distorted they should pattern better shouldn't they?

If true then for cylinder bore layers of three 00 buck pellets should be fine and layers of two in a shotcup for a choke would be better? Am I way off base?

Longbow

[Mr Peabody]

I think you've hit on a good point. I'm having better results at 50 yards stacking by two's and using the tighter coke.

[megasupermagnum]

Does that apply to stacking 00 buck in layers of two in shotcup or layers of three with no shotcup or both?

With regards to stacking in two's or three's... I can fit a layer of three 00 buckshot through a 12 ga. bore fine but when they get to a 0.690" choke they do not fit so I have to think that if shot in say three layers of three that the 00 buckshot would deform quite a bit when swaged through the choke as I assume the pellets would be held in place by acceleration and mass above except for the top layer. So at least two layers of a three x three load would be fairly badly distorted. Is that true?

If loaded in a shotcup they stack in layers of two but have the petals as cushions against the bore and choke so the pellets should be able to squeeze through the choke without as much distortion. If the pellets aren't as distorted they should pattern better shouldn't they?

If true then for cylinder bore layers of three 00 buck pellets should be fine and layers of two in a shotcup for a choke would be better? Am I way off base?

Longbow

You have to remember that a full choke is only .040" constriction, and even with a 2 stack is only .020" per pellet, and it only amounts to a dimple on each side. In the grand scheme of things, it is rather small. That is assuming you have a perfect tight fit to begin with, which in a 12 gauge would be stacks of 2's .365" balls. Since 000 buck is .360", that's .010" less for deformation. I have shot 0000 buck (.380") in 12 gauge, but never could get it to shoot without tearing up the hull. If deformation from the choke was a factor, a cylinder bore would shoot tightest, but it does not. I have seen some wicked patterns with the Federal flight control wad buckshot in a cylinder bore, but I have never shot any myself.

For whatever reason I can't explain, stacks of 3's rarely work out. I think I did have a load with 2 buck in 16 gauge that did work very well. It could have stacked in 4's, I'd have to try it again. I want to say it was in 3's. It patterns tighter from my modified choke barrel, than my IC choke barrel. I don't have a full choke to try in 16 gauge.

The problem with recovered shot, is there is no way to know where that shot started out. If you pick up two shot, one being more distorted, how can you know for sure which was on bottom, and which was on top? You can theorize the distorted one was on bottom, but you can't prove it. That said, I have shot enough patterns to prove to myself that less distorted shot does pattern better. I've found this with chilled vs magnum shot with turkey loads, and I've found this with soft lead vs hard lead buckshot. If you recover soft buckshot, Hornady loads soft buckshot, they look like pyramids after firing. They also don't pattern well at all. Then take your own quenched cast buckshot, and you will see they are slightly distorted, but mostly round with a few dimples on them.

[doghunter]

The folks that always pushed open chokes for buckshot must have been using it for home defense. in the south, we have been shooting buckshot through full choked guns forever.

[Blood Trail]

Whatever you reload, add buffer. That’s a game changer for me.


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[Cap'n Morgan]

The folks that always pushed open chokes for buckshot must have been using it for home defense. in the south, we have been shooting buckshot through full choked guns forever.

It's a common misconception that chokes work "Just like a garden hose"...

Warning, another long-winded explanation coming up!

Chokes work by changing the velocity of the shot column. When the column meets the choked part of the barrel it's squeezed down in diameter,
this lengthens the column, and at the same time increases the velocity of the shot in front while slowing down those in the rear.
- just like a bunch of people leaving a movie theater. In the rear, people are bumping into each other but out in the front people are walking briskly
(does anybody use the word "briskly" anymore?) Anyway, the same thing happens to the shot; the strung out column reduces contact between the
individual pellets, which is what spoils our patterns -even if the pattern only consists of six or nine pellets.

This old commercial ad for a shot wad clearly illustrates the point. You can actually see how the rear of the skeet load is forced into the front part
(which is slowed down by air resistance) pushing the pellets outwards. Compare this to the trap load where the stringing is already obvious a few feet
from the muzzle.

https://i.imgur.com/cI1LnYd.jpg

[longbow]

Yes, I was thinking stacks of 3 00 buck pellets would be good but they'd likely deform going through a choke since they wouldn't likely flow well like smaller shot. Stacks of 2 in shotcup should allow for squish and flow to suit a choke and benefit from the choke.

Currently I only have cylinder bore (2 slug/buckshot guns) and fixed choke (1 slug/buckshot gun with I/C choke and several fixed full choke guns). Screw in chokes would be nice! And make it easier to test and tune.

Maybe it's time to buy a Mossberg 500 combo!

Longbow

[Wilderness]

I have been trying them all. Stacking by two's shoots a little tighter groups than the stacking by three's

I am using 14 pellets of SSG buckshot (7mm/.280") in 20 ga. These stack two per layer in Rem SP wad. Case is straight sided skived plastic, powder 24 or 25 gns Blue Dot. Both barrels (M&F) pattern well, but full is better - full can just about put the lot on a medium sized pig at 25 meters.

I find SSG much better on pigs than SG/00. My first experience of this size was about 1970 with some (then communist) Polish Pawam paper case ammo with fibre wads and 7 mm shot. The red roll crimp cartridges had a picture of a boar on them. The first big boar I shot dropped like a stone, and the spent shot was all under the skin on the far side. That ammo put plenty of rubbish out the front when it went off too, so much so that a friend opined it was "wadded with the skins of political prisoners". But it was good ammo and the lesson on shot size was taken to heart.

[longbow]

BT:

On the buffer comment, my reloading manuals say not just to add buffer unless the recipe calls for it as it may raise pressure.

Have you checked pressure of loads with and without buffer but otherwise the same?

Do you just add buffer to existing recipes not calling for buffer or do you work up loads using your pressure trace system?

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

BT:

On the buffer comment, my reloading manuals say not just to add buffer unless the recipe calls for it as it may raise pressure.

Have you checked pressure of loads with and without buffer but otherwise the same?

Do you just add buffer to existing recipes not calling for buffer or do you work up loads using your pressure trace system?

Longbow

Yes, I should of clarified, as it may not be common knowledge for beginners. What I’ve found in my testing is starting a couple grains less is usually a great starting point for existing data.

Since I load buckshot in a lot of different wads with no buckshot data, I use the payload weight and reduce from from there.


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[longbow]

And your using the plastic shotgun buffer? Granulated? Spherical?

Any recommendations?

I have to get my butt out slug shooting then I want to load up vfc some 00 buck and give it a go. I better see if I can find a barrel with screw in chokes or spend some money on a new Mossberg combo.

I have been working a bit lately so consider that toy money!

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

And your using the plastic shotgun buffer? Granulated? Spherical?

Any recommendations?

I have to get my butt out slug shooting then I want to load up vfc some 00 buck and give it a go. I better see if I can find a barrel with screw in chokes or spend some money on a new Mossberg combo.

I have been working a bit lately so consider that toy money!

Longbow

I use BPI’s original and #47. #47 mainly for rb’s


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[longbow]

Good to know! Thanks.

Longbow

[RMc]

With screw in chokes the Extra Full chokes, .685./.690 diameter, seem to be the best performers for everything from 0 Buckshot to Tri-Ball.

With the smaller buckshot sizes from #4 Buckshot to #1 Buckshot, .675/.680 diameter perform the best.

Of the various specialty chokes, the Kicks Buck Kicker has been stellar.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Perchance, have you patterned any Tri-Ball buckshot through your Kicks Buck Kicker choke tubes?

[recumbent]

Modified screw in choke

[Blood Trail]

Perchance, have you patterned any Tri-Ball buckshot through your Kicks Buck Kicker choke tubes?

For my double and tri ball loads, my tightest patterns I got, I used a mod choke. Anything tighter blew my patterns at 50 yards.


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[Hogtamer]

FWIW….I tested a fixed 30” full choke barrel on an 870 vs a screw-in full choke 28” barrel on the same gun. The screw-in choke results were a tighter pattern every time with buck or shot loads. Kinda surprised me.

[LeonCarr]

Perchance, have you patterned any Tri-Ball buckshot through your Kicks Buck Kicker choke tubes?

Yes I have, through the Light Full, the Standard Full, and the Extra Full Buck Kicker. The Standard Full has been the best, patterns about 2-3 inches at 40 yards. The Light Full about 5-6 inches at 40 yards, and the Extra Full puts two within 2-3 inches and slings one out about 2-3 from the two, IME an indicator of too much choke. Also IME the choke porting reduces the muzzle flip, but does not do a whole lot for felt recoil.

I still get the best results from the Carlson's .685 SS Sporting Clays Extended Choke. That is why you pattern test your shotguns, sometimes a 20 dollar choke tube works better than a 70 dollar choke tube :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr