Alloy and bullet diameters question

[echo154]

I am getting ready to order a Keith type bullet mould from Accurate for my SW M629 (4") and was wondering about the differences in diameters between 16-1 - Lyman #2 and Linotype? I load mostly moderate to heavy...depending on intended use. Linotype when fly fishing in bear county the other two for hunting or target. I intend to measure the throats but and wondering how much the diameter differs from the different alloys?

[Cosmic_Charlie]

You definitely want to know what the throats are. Your boolits should push through them without becoming stuck. I have had problems when my bullets are sized down by the throats. I would also recommend powder coating your harder alloy for heavy loads. I get good results from a bhn of 10 with medium loads in .44 mag. You may find that different alloys vary by weight more than diameter. Tom's molds will drop at what you ask for or slightly larger in my experience.

[echo154]

Thank Charlie....I was wondering as Accurate asks about alloy used. I have soft lead16-1 and coww but am out of Linotype. Gonna try the 44 round balls to get throats as well as bore. I also have to get a good micrometer as I see no difference in the two alloys I have with dial calipers.

[ABJ]

I am pretty sure the lino will yield the largest as cast size but I have never used true #2. Having said that I think you got the cart before the horse. I would order some pin gauges(.429-.430-.431) to measure the throats. That's your baseline. Lets assume you have .431 throats so you will want to size to .431 or .432. Tom at Accurate will want to know what your intended final size will be. If you spec. the mold to throw .433 in 16:1 and size to .432 the Lino boolit will throw, just a wild ass guess here, but I would think somewhere in the range of .434/.435. If you email Tom he can narrow that down. Sizing down a Lino boolit 1/1000 is no problem but 2/1000 is going to take some pressure.
Are you dead set on your stated alloy selections?
The reason I ask is all 3 are very expensive alloys, and I understand the bear/lino connection but except for that, COWW plus 1.5% tin or equivalent is a lot less expensive and should be as accurate as the gun is. It's a good all around non dangerous game hunting and target alloy. I have never needed bear ammo so I will defer to those that have for alloy recommendations.
Please understand, I'm not trying to throw cold water on your alloy choices just trying to make your intended mold purchase will serve all your needs. There is nothing more frustrating than an undersized boolit.
Tony

[Tom Myers]

I am getting ready to order a Keith type bullet mould from Accurate for my SW M629 (4") and was wondering about the differences in diameters between 16-1 - Lyman #2 and Linotype? I load mostly moderate to heavy...depending on intended use. Linotype when fly fishing in bear county the other two for hunting or target. I intend to measure the throats but and wondering how much the diameter differs from the different alloys?

Enclosed is a screen snap from the Alloy Calculator used by the Precision Cast Bullet Design ~ Advanced software (https://www.tmtpages.com/#Advanced).

It should provide some insight concerning the Keith Style Cast Bullet with different casting alloys.

Hope this helps.

[click on image to enlarge]
285502

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Wheel weights, pure and tin should be all you need for .44 mag. Powder coated wheel weight boolits with 2% tin should be sufficient for full power loads. I use lino type for batching #2 alloy for rifle boolits but not for revolver. I have shot PC boolits at bhn of 12 over stiff charges of W 296 without leading. You may not need as hard an alloy as you think. For Brown Bears I would use factory soft points, not hand loads, but that's just me.

[farmbif]

I save my Lino for loads faster than 2000fps in rifle loads like 311299 in 30-06. I shoot lots of full power loads in 357, 41 and 44 mag with just coww using traditional lube sizing and have never had a problem feeling like I might be under protected from whatever might be threatening

[echo154]

I currently have a lot of pure lead(taken from an x-ray suite), I mix it with pure tin for 20-1/16-1, I also have about 20 lbs of #2(estate sale), I use coww/tin for my 45 colt and 45-70. While fly fishing I carry my 629 as its the only magnum heavy bullet thrower I own. I also haven't been able to find any 44 mag ammo or powder and primers for that matter. Once I use up the #2 up I'll probably try other alloy mixes. Where I was getting my coww now uses lead free :evil: 16-1 has done well with deer and pig. I also cast pure for my 45-110 C. Sharps. I will also be sending the cylinder to Ddoug for him to pin it and hone after I qualify(IROCC) with it at the range. No not my preference for CC but hey you never know:mrgreen:

[mdi]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 and #4 have charts of diameters/weights with different common bullet alloys (mine is out in the shop so I can't quote you a predicted diameter)...

[gwpercle]

Don't get all hung up on hardness . Boolit size / fit is much more important than hardness .
After you size a boolit , and you should size them , then the difference in as cast diameter is moot .

Elmer Keith did most of his 44 magnum shooting with a mix of :
1 - part Tin to 15 - parts Lead.
Your alloy of 1 part tin / 16 parts lead should do the job nicely . That 1/15 may have been changed to 1/16 in later years as I have seen that ratio used also .
He stated that this alloy was sufficient "for really heavy loads " in his book Sixgun Cartridges & Loads - Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting. 1936
Gary

[echo154]

Thanks one and all ......just picked up the 50th edition of Lyman's reloading book. All my other books are a couple of decades old!

[243winxb]

The standard alloy today is 2% tin, 6% antimony and 92% lead. https://www.rotometals.com/hardball-bullet-casting-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-2-tin-6-antimony-and-92-lead/

The diameter can be adjusted a tiny bit by adding or using less antimony.


From the Redding website.
Bullet Sizes & Weights – How to Vary Them
The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead).

Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately 1/3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast f rom wheel weights and linotype.

Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.

Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.

The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.

[243winxb]

Throats- i have tested with hard & soft alloys. Different diameters. This is the best of the best in my S&W M29-2 . 8 3/8"
The 50 yard group had bullets Oven Heat Treaded/water cooled, using the Lyman method, , for a harder bullet.

Hard bullets avoid skidding & slumping. Better accuracy.

[fredj338]

I have several molds from Accurate. I always go with clip ww alloy for size. If they get a a bit larger or smaller than as cast, they all get sized anyway. I would only consider pure lino for my 6.8pb/pc. The 44mag doesnt really need that hard a bullet but I would just water drop the clip ww for a harder magnum solid.

[white eagle]

Don't get all hung up on hardness . Boolit size / fit is much more important than hardness .
After you size a boolit , and you should size them , then the difference in as cast diameter is moot .

Elmer Keith did most of his 44 magnum shooting with a mix of :
1 - part Tin to 15 - parts Lead.
Your alloy of 1 part tin / 16 parts lead should do the job nicely . That 1/15 may have been changed to 1/16 in later years as I have seen that ratio used also .
He stated that this alloy was sufficient "for really heavy loads " in his book Sixgun Cartridges & Loads - Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting. 1936
Gary

Exactly
the only other thing I would ad is Accuracy
If you don't have that the alloy makes little difference