Huntin with the 38-55

[Dom]

I have a Marlin Cowboy 38-55. Never have hunted with it. Now have been casting a LBT 260gr GC bullet. BHN 15 & PC. My chrono says about 1485 fps. I'm figuring deer, but have a fair amount of elk in the area. Looking for info as to the capability of this round? Effective range , penetration ??285232

[badguybuster]

Within 100 archery ranges (50 yards) I would venture it would pass completely thru an elk on a broadside shot. Elk have been effectively killed with 44-40 for years before the advent of more powerful rounds.

[725]

I would tend to concur w/ badguybuster. Pick your shot and place it well. Read a great review by (?) about "The Medium Medium Bore" or "Gentle Medium Bore" or some such. I'll try and find it.

[725]

>38-55, The Gentile Medium Bore by Chuck Hawks. Quick search will produce it.

[Jim22]

That will do well on deer, I think. For elk you will have to do your part. Pick your range, pick your shot, and, as suggested, expect penetration.

Edit: It sounds like your rifle is producing levels a bit above the .44 Magnum in a revolver. They have taken both deer and elk. The difference is that you will be able to shoot a rifle more accurately than a handgun.

[Kylongrifle32]

I have been hunting with a Chiappa mini sharps 38-55 for a couple of years. A Lee 250 grain FN traveling at 1200 fps. I don't have a lot of kills with this rifle but all shots at deer have been pass thru shots.

[quilbilly]

Having taken elk with authority with my muzzleloader using a 265 gr .429 SWC with a sabot at approximately the same velocity, you will be very impressed by its performance on elk if you do your part at ranges under 150 yards. I was so impressed the first time on elk that I downloaded my .444 to match the muzzleloader for Roosevelt elk which are a bit larger in body size as an adaptation to our violent climate.

[Landy88]

I would tend to concur w/ badguybuster. Pick your shot and place it well. Read a great review by (?) about "The Medium Medium Bore" or "Gentle Medium Bore" or some such. I'll try and find it.

You were right, twice. Their was the specific article that you cited by Hawks, and a more general one before by Barsness "Medium Mediums."

[Jim22]

This is making me rethink the loads I have been trying to reach in my single-shot .375 JDJ with cast boolits. My original goal was 2,000 fps. with the Lee 250 grain GC boolit. I think I may dial that back for the recoil reasons that Chuck Hawks mentioned. I am 74 years old and don't like recoil as much as I used to. I currently have no plans to hunt elk or moose. I would think 1300 to 1500 fps would do well.

I am currently concentrating on my .357 MAX rifle and 200 grain Lee Cast GC's. The .375 will wait a while longer.

[Dom]

Thanks so much for the info. I really want to try this 38-55. The bullets I cast at BHN 15 are kind of a compromise.Hard enough to take the 1500 fps velocity , but not overly hard to where they could shatter. Only a few months till the season opens again. Want to be absolutely ready. Because of all the big trees on the place most shot's are 150 or less with many being under 100yds.

[Jim22]

Speaking of the .38-55, have any of you had experience with Henry's brass frame side gate model in that caliber? Have they made any in steel frame? I find the brass frame to be garish. I have one of Henry's single shots. Needed trigger work but it shoots well.

If you were going to buy a lever action in .38-55 which would you choose?

Jim

[725]

I'd find an old Win 94 or Marlin 336 and send it off to JES. His work is impeccable. I started to say it might be a cheaper way to go, but with today's whacked out prices it'a anybody's guess.

[Norske]

Call Henry. That brass might be admiralty bronze, stronger than mild steel.

[PositiveCaster]

Within 100 archery ranges (50 yards) I would venture it would pass completely thru an elk on a broadside shot. Elk have been effectively killed with 44-40 for years before the advent of more powerful rounds.

I gotta lol when I read many posts similar to this. Folks “guess” that a bullet will “pass completely through” an elk? Through both shoulders? Deer sure, large elk doubtful. What if the hunter isn’t offered a “broadside shot”?

Elk and brown bear have been killed with .22LRs but that means nothing to a responsible hunter. 19th century hunters using a .44-40 on elk didn’t have a choice, they used what they had. Just because it [I]can be done doesn’t mean it should be. As far wiser hunters than me have stated: “don’t choose a cartridge which will perform under perfect conditions, choose one which will work under poor conditions”.

Will the OP’s load humanely kill an elk? Of course, under near-perfect conditions. As a handgun hunter, over the past 40+ years I have passed up a great many shots on many dozens of animals because conditions were not good enough. Is the OP willing to pass on a shot that is not ideal? If so, good on him. If not he may want to increase the effectiveness of his load, or reconsider shooting an elk.



.

[centershot]

The history of the 38-55 tells us it was cherished as a hunting round, with good cause. The original loading was a 250 or 255 gr. bullet at something like 1300, IIRC. Pretty sedate by today's standards, but it killed well! Later n, higher velocity loads were introduced but "they" say it didn't group as well as the slower load. My own experience is limited to a Marlin 375 that I chose to load to 38-55 ballistics, and happy that I did! I, also, used the 250 grain Lee RNFP-PB, settling on a charge of 10 gr. of Unique which gave me 1312 fps average speed and grouped 2" @ 100 yds. I could not have been happier! Easy to shoot, economical and kills deer really well! Get inside 100 yds. of that elk and put one in his chest! You'll do fine!

[missionary5155]

The whole key to me is your basic cast design. The old 255 grain looked much like yours with that flat nose. That will dump energy as it pushes through skin ribs, organs and whatever else.
You have roughly 300 fps advantage over the 1899 load so just put it through the heart / lungs and get ready for the real work and eating.

[Dom]

All sounds interesting. As an elk hunter/harvester of many years I am well aware of how many times elk hunting I was presented with a sharply angled shot, from the front or back. On a shot like this penetration is paramount. Maybe I should consider a heavier bullet than my 260gr mold. I would have to check my twist as I don't remember what it is in the Marlin. Will it stabilize , say a 280gr bullet? I'm not sure. Just thinking of options. Would rather err on the side of a heavier bullet, than a lighter one. I should be able to drive a 280gr bullet easily to 1400 fps in this modern strong Marlin.

[koger]

I am planning on hunting with my Marlin/JES 38/55, or my Win. Hi Wall. I haver some 338 gr slugs I am going to be shooting here shortly, could run across a bear where I hunt. I have had great accuracy, with a max load of 24grs IMR 4198, and the Lee boolit which comes out at 265 gr with my alloy, both rifles shoot great.

[warren5421]

The 338 gr slugs will be to long for the Marlin. Will work great in your Hi Wall. I use a Lyman 336gr slug in my Browning Hi Wall that started out as a .40-65. The 265 gr works great with the Marlin. Load the 265 gr with black powder for the Marlin, it likes the black and Pb real well. If you load with black load max length that will cycle in your Marlin. Shooting the Marlin use Bore Butter as you gun lube and use a good black powder lube on your slugs.

[MT Gianni]

A friend who has a lot of different choices carries one as a wandering around gun in the western part of Beaverhead County. That can be thick and isolated or open up to 150 yards or so.

[Yooper003]

I have seen it mentioned a couple times, but, where do you find a Lee mold for a gas check boolit for the 38/55. Lee doesn’t list one on there site.

[farmbif]

lee doesn't make one, but rcbs 37-250 and Lyman 375449 are both gas check designs

[beltfed]

NOE and Accurate molds also make 38 cal molds similar to the Lyman 375499 . Good molds, and probably more "available' than the Lymanmolds just now,
My load for me 336 CB is a Lyman 375449 cast of 9+1 COWW/lino(15bhn) over 28 gr Re 7 for 1750fps or the NOE 235 RD over 29 grains.
Very Accurate Loads.
beltfed/arnie

[Dom]

I have been using IMR 4198 for my 265gr LBT GC bullet for about 1650 fps & great accuracy. I have some Rel7 so might give it a try.286906 This is how they turned out after coating & sizing at .380.

[beltfed]

Dom,
Yes, the Re 7 is close to the burning rate of the 4198. I like the Re 7 because its fine grains allow for more smooth and accurate
powder metering without kernel cutting
beltfed/arnie

[Norske]

As for big game (deer are really medium game), you should check out Buffalo Bore's 38-55 loads, reading their detailed description of each.

[PositiveCaster]

I have seen it mentioned a couple times, but, where do you find a Lee mold for a gas check boolit for the 38/55. Lee doesn’t list one on there site.

Lee just lists a 250 plain base, so you can’t get one retail. I’ve used the RCBS 250 FNGC for many years, it works fine. I hollow pointed it and took a couple deer with it.

I have an LBT mould as well, but that wasn’t cheap even 30 years ago.


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[Jim22]

I have been casting a 250 grain gas check for my .375 JDJ from a Lee two cavity mould. Lee's designator is '379-250 RF' It also says it casts to .379". I think that depends on your alloy but will this work in the .38-55?

Jim

[Mk42gunner]

I have been casting a 250 grain gas check for my .375 JDJ from a Lee two cavity mould. Lee's designator is '379-250 RF' It also says it casts to .379". I think that depends on your alloy but will this work in the .38-55?

Jim
Mine does with plain old air ACWW. Mine is an older style two cavity, and be advised it comes as a bevel based boolit.

Robert

[versa-06]

Let me borrow some knowledge from ya'll. I'm considering asking JES to convert a Win 94 AE 30-30 I have to 38-55. What kind of velocity can I expect using Lee's 250 grain bullet PC'd with accuracy? Thanks

[versa-06]

There must be someone with some pushing the envelope figures?

[725]

I don't know the speeds specifically, but a .38-55 rebore from JES sizzled right through my last deer. No bullet recovered. Not ever having been exposed to the .38-55 before, I was curious about performance. Not any more! Why did I wait so long? I think a loading manual would give you a better idea about speeds possible.

[1006]

Versa-
I buy my cast bullets—no casting experience.

I have a 375WINCHESTER in which I load 260 grain cast bullets with gas checks added by me. I only push them to 1500fps. 2.5moa at 100yards is the best I can get with iron sights, using a rest on a shooting bench. I can, on a good day, get about 1.5 moa at 50 yards. I think the lower velocity tends to allow the moa divergence to grow with the distance of the target. I keep the loads around 1500 and use a gas check to make cleaning easier. So far, the Winchester bore of .375 stays free of lead with a hard cast, gas checked bullet, sized to .376.

My experience with PC’d bullets in rifles has been with a Winchester 94 AE in 30-30. I couldn’t push them past 1300fps without leaving some coating and a little lead in the barrel. The bullets were sized .309, coated with High Tech Coating, and had a hardness of 18.

I like shooting the cast bullets, but if faced with the choice of investing the required time to perfect an accurate maximum velocity load with cast, or simply loading a jacketed bullet for more velocity……

[725]

I've found commercial lead bullets to be sized too small. YMMV. Although .309 bullets work, .310 or .311 might work significantly better. Even paper patching the .309 might yield much better accuracy.

[Gray Fox]

Bear Creek Supply in CA has a 250 flat point in their proprietary moly based coating that is available in .377. .378, .379 and .380 $39.75 for 300 boolits. My Legendary Frontiersman takes a .379. www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com

[versa-06]

Thanks for your experiences, But loading manuals tend lo be light loads because of so many older firearms. I am curious as to what can be expected out of the newer stronger rifles. 38-55 is not in my racks yet but I'm getting close.

[T-Bird]

I have a '94ae that I had "JESed" to 38/55 a few years back. I haven't killed anything with it yet, but I really like the way it shoots and it was much cheaper than a new gun. I haven't tried for velocity stretching, I shoot the Lee boolit and it's bevel based about 1300 fps and use 17gr IMR 4227. The "hottest" I've shot is 22gr 4198 for, I guess, 1450-1500 fps. That shot well too. I have the 3 groove option for the barrel.

[Mk42gunner]

versa-06, I don't know for sure, I've not had the chronograph setup when I was shooting my .38-55. I'm going to guess that you can push the PB Lee to somewhere around 15-1600 fps. How PC effects that, I have no clue.

I've also not been deer hunting in the last ten years or so (hurt my back), but if I were to use my .38-55, I would go for an accurate load first then find out how fast it was going. After all the BP era loads with a 255gr FP were supposed to kill deer fine, and deer haven't gotten any tougher.

Robert

[pworley1]

The 38-55 has been killing every kind of game found in North America for over a hundred years. It should work for you.

[versa-06]

Anybody shoot'n the heavies, 300-325 gr & if so what kind of vel are you get'n. I've got this thing for heavies now that we've got a few bears.

[HD.375]

I have a Marlin Cowboy 38-55. Never have hunted with it. Now have been casting a LBT 260gr GC bullet. BHN 15 & PC. My chrono says about 1485 fps. I'm figuring deer, but have a fair amount of elk in the area. Looking for info as to the capability of this round? Effective range , penetration ??285232

howdy-
sooo, i use the 375 winnie, loaded to about your specs actually, 20gr of 4198, 245gr commercial hard cast,.... its tough.

i down loaded for a pleasant plinker an capable deer round, open sights i can just hit a gong at 150m , an that is my absolute max, 100m is preferred and under... i find the front bead takes up too much animal or in thick bush limits placement an confidence, i filed this down thinner an helped alot... i also use williams peep sight an my 100m grouping inproved dramatically.

I have shot larger deer similiar to Elk, called Sambar deer, lung an heart shots often resulted in pass through and running short distance - similiar to bow hunting.

ive not shot them with the 'lower' load yet , maybe this month some time! but the smaller deer have DRT an also lunged an ran out an piled up.

Your penetrtion im goin to say will be 100% in most instances within 100m or so, an Distance will be pending how far out you can consistantly hit a 10 inch round gong say, from different distance first time each time, after 150 my trajectory cancels me out for point and shoot.... (if loaded hot 375 would extend this but i dont need it)

https://i.imgur.com/ZvOaWyG.jpg

[versa-06]

Resurrecting an old thread I know. Since this thread I have purchased a Henry & a Winchester 94ae rebored by JES both 38-55. A Win. 375 XTR & a Ruger #3 in 375 Win. I must say that I couldn't be happier with a caliber than I am with these. OK up close & personal the 44 carbines & rifle are great. But getting all the potential out of a modern rifle is the kicks. Not as much rainbow with these rifles & with realistic loads getting in the 1700-1800 fps range is not impossible, using a PC'd 250 grain PB, or bevel based bullet. I took a young spike with the Lee 379-250 bevel based bullet (kinda soft) PC'd at about 1650 fps. The deer was coming at a frontal shot & turned slightly at about 65 yds to a slightly quartering shot & I let one fly hitting right behind the right shoulder & exiting to the opposite side next to the processed chow exit. What I found inside blew me away. That low vel. bullet destroyed all intrails behind the heart, the liver was completely gone & the intestines found was about 20%. Never would I have expected that much damage. I think I need to use a little firmer bullet alloy but the penetration was tops.

[Cast10]

Good job! What BHN you use? Mine is 11.2ish and have only killed a hog.

[centershot]

Resurrecting an old thread I know. Since this thread I have purchased a Henry & a Winchester 94ae rebored by JES both 38-55. A Win. 375 XTR & a Ruger #3 in 375 Win. I must say that I couldn't be happier with a caliber than I am with these. OK up close & personal the 44 carbines & rifle are great. But getting all the potential out of a modern rifle is the kicks. Not as much rainbow with these rifles & with realistic loads getting in the 1700-1800 fps range is not impossible, using a PC'd 250 grain PB, or bevel based bullet. I took a young spike with the Lee 379-250 bevel based bullet (kinda soft) PC'd at about 1650 fps. The deer was coming at a frontal shot & turned slightly at about 65 yds to a slightly quartering shot & I let one fly hitting right behind the right shoulder & exiting to the opposite side next to the processed chow exit. What I found inside blew me away. That low vel. bullet destroyed all intrails behind the heart, the liver was completely gone & the intestines found was about 20%. Never would I have expected that much damage. I think I need to use a little firmer bullet alloy but the penetration was tops.

LOL! Yeah, there's a lot to love with the 38-55, wish I still had one! I used to load the Lee bullet to around 1500 fps with much the same results, with an alloy of 94-3-3. Bang, flop. There's a reason the hunters of yesteryear thought so highly of the 38-55, I wish I'd never sold it............

[versa-06]

Cast10; I don't know the BHN. It was some alloy I had that started as cww but was not fluxed properly. I figured it would be kinda soft but wow I mean gutted the animal.

[warren5421]

Have not shot bear or bison but every thing else has dropped within 100 yards of where they were hit. It drops hogs as if they were poleaxed if I did my part. It seems to perform much better than the .45-70.

[725]

just love the .38-55. so far, it has worked first time - every time. barnes seems to have dropped the fabulous 255 grain bullet from inventory ~ too bad. hawk makes a selection of fine soft jacketed bullets for the .38-55. I've tried a couple home cast and have settled on a 235 grain ranch dog as a top performer. have taken deer only, so far, with all the above and I don't have a complaint with any of them.

[Tripplebeards]

That’s awesome!… thanks for sharing!!!

[MarkP]

versa-06, I don't know for sure, I've not had the chronograph setup when I was shooting my .38-55. I'm going to guess that you can push the PB Lee to somewhere around 15-1600 fps. How PC effects that, I have no clue.

I've also not been deer hunting in the last ten years or so (hurt my back), but if I were to use my .38-55, I would go for an accurate load first then find out how fast it was going. After all the BP era loads with a 255gr FP were supposed to kill deer fine, and deer haven't gotten any tougher.

Robert

I am shooting the LEE 379 250 gr in my Chief Crazy Horse at 1,700 ish (RL-7) lubed with LAR's BAC with no issues. Still pretty low pressures to get to this velocity pressure and velocity matter not just velocity alone.

[Rapier]

Last year traded an AR for a 375 XTR. A very nice Win rifle, not crazy about the top eject, but it will do for our "big" game. Primarily intended to be used for wild hogs. The 375 loads correctly with the long 38-55s brass sold by Star-Line. Regular 38-55 brass is a bit short. I was able to find Star-Line 375 brass and a 270 grain flat point, plain base, mould for powder coating.
Still considering the sight setup for current and future use, on that Winny.

[marshall623]

Last year traded an AR for a 375 XTR. A very nice Win rifle, not crazy about the top eject, but it will do for our "big" game. Primarily intended to be used for wild hogs. The 375 loads correctly with the long 38-55s brass sold by Star-Line. Regular 38-55 brass is a bit short. I was able to find Star-Line 375 brass and a 270 grain flat point, plain base, mould for powder coating.
Still considering the sight setup for current and future use, on that Winny.Rapier , I put a Williams 5D made for 94's on my 375 XTR . I had to file out the back of the sight on the side toward the hammer . The 375's are beefed up in the rear of the receiver. It turned out just fine , I went the route of the receiver sight because they work better for me . Williams used to make the sight to fit those but it's discontinued.

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