Would you shoot this barrel?

[Bphunter]

Felt my Lyman barrel was fouling up to easily and decided to give it a thorough cleaning including a scotchbrite polish job I read about this forum. Well after cleaning I decided to run the ol' bore scope down the tube to admire my handy work and was absolutely shocked :shock: at what I found! There was a pretty large crack going most of the way around the interior of the bore about 1/2" - 3/4" in front of the breech plug. I've been shooting this thing a dozen times a year for the last 10 years! I shoot only RB's with 60-80 grains of Goex FF. Never double loaded or fired with the ball off the powder. I don't think I'm going to shoot this barrel again. I looked around briefly and couldn't find a replacement barrel for a LH percussion GPR. Any

one else ever see this sorta thing?

[Martin Luber]

I would write to Lyman. It look like an axial crack to me or l don't understand the photo.

[Bphunter]

The crack runs roughly perpendicular to the rifling (bright diagonal lines). It's a little hard to distinguish the lands from grooves b/c the circular mirror is so small. I wrote Lyman today to see if they still had replacement barrels. They no longer appear in the list of available parts, so I'm not expecting much.

[243winxb]

Proof test the barrel. Another reason to not have a bore scope.

[hoodat]

Now that's simply unnatural. But being left handed, you should be familiar with "unnatural".:razz: jd

[725]

YMMV, but that would make me uneasy. I'd be looking to re-barrel. Granted, I'm not a machinist or experienced with that kind of damage, but that indicates to me a weakness and I wouldn't gamble with a weakness that close to my eyes and nose.

[Bphunter]

Proof test the barrel. Another reason to not have a bore scope.
Ha ha. After this I will be carefully scoping ALL my barrels periodically. I wish I had scoped this barrel 10 years ago when new. I have no idea when this crack started or how fast it's progressing. Maybe I should proof test it and take another pic if it's still in one piece. :rolleyes:

[fiberoptik]

Couldn’t it be shortened and breechplug replaced? Ahead of the crack?


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[Bphunter]

Couldn’t it be shortened and breechplug replaced? Ahead of the crack?


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Maybe, but barrel staples and attachments would have to relocated. I'm looking for a replacement that I can just brown and drop in.

[flyingmonkey35]

Well it lools like you could shoot the barrel.

But not shoot out of it.

Yes i win a prize for bieng punny!



Let us know what lyman says.

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[country gent]

What would be interesting is to hang the barrel free and tap with a light brass hammer see if it is a ring or a thud. There is no way of knowing if it surface or how deep. When mounting new grinding wheel its hung on a screwdriver and tapped with another if it rings its good if a thud there is a crack and thrown away.

[frkelly74]

Didn't Lyman have a recall on some muzzle loaders a while back?

[NyFirefighter357]

http://co4h.colostate.edu/ss/forms/recall-22318.pdf

PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING AND RECALL NOTICETo: All distributors, dealers, retailers and consumers of Lyman Products black powder rifles and pistols Lyman Products Corp. (“Lyman”) is voluntarily recalling black powder rifles and pistols due to the potential of separation in the breech plug. Lyman maintains a safety-first approach, so despite finding only a fewfirearms affected and no reported injuries, we are offering a recall program to have the issue corrected.Lyman regrets the inconvenience but remains committed to the safety of our customers. 475 Smith Street Middletown, CT 06457office: 860-632-2020www.lymanproducts.com Products: This recall includes black powder rifles and pistols regardless of caliber(including Deerstalker, Great Plains, Great Plains Hunter, Trade Rifle,Plains Pistol, Black Powder Kits,and replacement barrels; excluding Percussion Left Hand Great Plains and Left Hand Great Plains Hunter models)manufactured from March 1, 2017 to December 22, 2017.Barrels with the serial number in the range of A595960–A599026are subject to this recall.Safety Warning: Lyman has determined that some black powder rifles and pistols could, under certain circumstances, develop separation in the breech plug, which may pose a potential safety hazard.Please do not load or use any rifles or pistols subject to this recall.How to Identify Rifles and Pistols Subject to the Recall:Find the serial number where the barrel meets the tang, opposite of the lock. The serial number has the letter “A” followed by a series of 6 numbers.Image 1: Serial Number Location on a Rifle Image 2: Serial Number Location on a Pistol Action to be Taken:If the serial number is within the range of A595960–A599026, immediately discontinue any use of this product.Please contact the Lyman Customer Service Department by emailingcustomerservice@lymanproducts.comor by calling 800-225-9626 Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. EST. You will be asked to provide your contact information, serial number, and either the part number or model to process the return.Anyone outside the U.S.A. who is in possession of a black powder rifle or pistol within the recall range should contact your local distributor immediately.Shipping:Upon receipt of the information provided to customer service, Lyman will send instructions and packaging to ship the product to Lyman for replacement at no cost to the customer. Lyman will provide a replacement barrel and tang with instructions or will replace the barrel and tang at Lyman and return the firearm. Please only return your rifle, pistol, or barre land tang with the provided shipping tags and boxes

[Txcowboy52]

That would scare the crap outta me! No way I would shoot that. I don’t believe in taking unnecessary risks.

[Gtek]

Just a guess with limited info but maybe they had a problem with the breeching process, over torque/stress in fixture? Hope you are given a new (good) replacement.

[Gtrubicon]

That is unsettling, I wouldn’t shoot it. I would explore other options about replacement of the barrel. There’s no fix for it. Remember, it’s basically a pipe bomb at your forehead.

[charlie b]

Contact Lyman. Give them serial number and pictures.

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[Bphunter]

I purchased this barrel around 2010 so it's not part of the more recent breech plug recall. Yeah, there's no way of knowing how deep the crack goes but there's no external hint of the crack. I've never seen anything like it before. Could have been introduced by over-torquing the breech plug at the factory. Haven't heard back from Lyman yet. I'll try to get someone on the phone tomorrow and see what they can do or how they want to proceed.

[Electrod47]

One things for sure. Buddy, you know how to clean a barrel.

[indian joe]

+ 1 to E47 that thing is squeaky clean

Dunno what I think of this - combine the recall with the borescope its kinda scary
Take away the endoscope ? you woulda never knew (unless it blew)

Somebody posted a few days ago about a CVA blowing the nipple drum out - said its a common fault - I never seen it nor heard of it - I have shot CVA's a lot and for a long time, the nipple drum and barrel threads have all been very neatly put together - cant figure how you would blow one of those out ----UNLESS ---- someone had previously monkeyed with it OR fitted a replacement drum.

[Tar Heel]

Good catch!

[GregLaROCHE]

That’s one of those things, that if you never knew about it, you could probably keep shooting it for many years. Unfortunately, now that you know about it, it needs to be addressed. Cracks like to spread and it’s not even like you had access to drill out the ends of the crack to keep it from migrating.

Was the barrel new to you, unfired? Otherwise, maybe someone used some smokeless with it.

New replacement barrels are not all that expensive these days, but better hurry up before the full force of the Covid inflation hits.

[Shawlerbrook]

I remember back when a few different muzzleloaders that were made in Spain had that problem. I think CVA were one, not sure where Lyman is made.

[Sasquatch-1]

Optics Planet has a replacement barrel listed but it seems a little steep to me at $310.00. But here is the link if you are interested.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-great-plains-hunter-replacement-barrel.html

Also, you may want to check out Bobby Hoyt in Pennsylvania for a barrel.

[Edward]

Optics Planet has a replacement barrel listed but it seems a little steep to me at $310.00. But here is the link if you are interested.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-great-plains-hunter-replacement-barrel.html

Also, you may want to check out Bobby Hoyt in Pennsylvania for a barrel.

That"s not steep just going price , and I dont think Bob would work with that barrel (liability issues ) and custom ?Hold onto your wallet just got a replacement from Rice barrels (excellent) @ $475.00 before shipping /Ed

[243winxb]

Waiting for the proof test firing. Try to blow it up. Video please. :guntootsmiley:

Proof load- Double charge of 3F, 2 patched balls, gun barrel action in old tires @ the end of 50 yards heavy fishing line.

Hide behind something. Dont look.

If your never going to shoot it again? And Lyman doesnt want it back, under the recall.

[Wayne Smith]

Waiting for the proof test firing. Try to blow it up. Video please. :guntootsmiley:

Proof load- Double charge of 3F, 2 patched balls, gun barrel action in old tires @ the end of 50 yards heavy fishing line.

Hide behind something. Dont look.

If your never going to shoot it again? And Lyman doesnt want it back, under the recall.

No, replacement barrels for those are drop in - well worth not blowing up the stock! Just get a new barrel and keep shooting. I pull the barrel and lock every time I shoot/clean mine. No harder to put another barrel in. For those it's easy to make it a flintlock, also, if you want.

[Bphunter]

That’s one of those things, that if you never knew about it, you could probably keep shooting it for many years. Unfortunately, now that you know about it, it needs to be addressed. Cracks like to spread and it’s not even like you had access to drill out the ends of the crack to keep it from migrating.

Was the barrel new to you, unfired? Otherwise, maybe someone used some smokeless with it.

New replacement barrels are not all that expensive these days, but better hurry up before the full force of the Covid inflation hits.

Yeah, I bought it new from Sportsman's Warehouse back 11 years ago. I looked at Optics Planet, but they are only taking back-orders now. Lyman doesn't have a direct replacement available in inventory but the customer service manager is trying to hook me up. It's nice to have someone who cares to get back with you within a day and try to help you out! I really like this rifle and it's my primary match rifle, so I will find a barrel for it eventually. It is kinda hard paying over $300 for a rifle that cost me $385 brand new, but what are you gonna do? I will have to draw file and brown a new barrel to match the old one, but it will be totally worth it.

[Bphunter]

Waiting for the proof test firing. Try to blow it up. Video please. :guntootsmiley:

Proof load- Double charge of 3F, 2 patched balls, gun barrel action in old tires @ the end of 50 yards heavy fishing line.

Hide behind something. Dont look.

If your never going to shoot it again? And Lyman doesnt want it back, under the recall.

Sounds like fun, but I put way too much effort into refinishing the stock to risk blowing it up! Might even loose my range privileges if someone saw what I was up to....[smilie=1:

[GregLaROCHE]

Maybe, but barrel staples and attachments would have to relocated. I'm looking for a replacement that I can just brown and drop in.

I think that’s your best bet.

[SeaMonkey]

Bore Erosion and Micro Cracking is actually quite normal as a consequence of shooting.

This Video explains what it is and how it develops. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeAdf4bN6kg)

Black Powder barrels aren't subjected to the intense stresses shown in the video but the process in Muzzle Loaders is identical though on a much reduced scale.

The Micro Cracks are very shallow and do not extend into the barrel metal which has retained its annealing and strength.

An experienced riflesmith would be able to evaluate the micro-cracks to determine whether they represent any danger of a weakened barrel.

While it is unlikely, for peace of mind it would probably be best to have them examined by one who knows.

[sharps4590]

Magnaflux, remove all doubt. Then shoot to your hearts content.

[Sasquatch-1]

Waiting for the proof test firing. Try to blow it up. Video please. :guntootsmiley:

Proof load- Double charge of 3F, 2 patched balls, gun barrel action in old tires @ the end of 50 yards heavy fishing line.

Hide behind something. Dont look.

If your never going to shoot it again? And Lyman doesnt want it back, under the recall.

Iraq Veteran 8888 blows up a couple of old CVA's showing what happens with overloads and smokeless powder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug

[243winxb]

Take the barrel out of the stock to proof test. Remove flash hole. Insert cannon fuse into barrel with proof load. Light. Run like hell. :bigsmyl2:

I proof tested old BP shotguns sitting in old tires, this way. This cannon i made from 1/2" galvanized pipe, passed proof. The first wood mount had a fixed, non-moving barrel. Put sights on it for the 50 yard group. Hot loads busted the wood. Made current one with wheels. It to busted the wood. Now coated, repaired with Brownells acraglas. Now strong as steel. Shoot blanks for July 4th.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/4th-of-july-cannon.525/full

[GregLaROCHE]

Magnaflux, remove all doubt. Then shoot to your hearts content.

You don’t need to Magnaflux to see that crack.

[Cane_man]

Take the barrel out of the stock to proof test. Remove flash hole. Insert cannon fuse into barrel with proof load. Light. Run like hell. :bigsmyl2:

I proof tested old BP shotguns sitting in old tires, this way. This cannon i made from 1/2" galvanized pipe, passed proof. The first wood mount had a fixed, non-moving barrel. Put sights on it for the 50 yard group. Hot loads busted the wood. Made current one with wheels. It to busted the wood. Now coated, repaired with Brownells acraglas. Now strong as steel. Shoot blanks for July 4th.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/4th-of-july-cannon.525/full

that looks like fun!

[garbler]

There are several ways of determining the depth and nature of those fractures using common NDT methods ( non destructive testing ). However I think the smart move is to contact Lyman first and if that fails and you still need to know UT/ultrasonic testing or Mag-Particle ( magnaflux ) testing. Either method will confirm depth location and size of these fractures. X-ray will also do the same but is normally pricey if they come to you. Anyway UT testing of steel tubes and piping is a big business so no shortage of options. If it were me I’d send or take barrel to one of the labs. I’m out of the business so can’t help you.

After reading my post I think I should add a bit. None of the above test procedures will tell you what or why. What caused them and why, for that you’ll need a metallurgist and they will cut up the barrel, i.e. destructive testing. Your macro photos are pretty decent and from what I see I’d probably save your testing dollars toward a new barrel.

[Edward]

The last post was the best post /Ed

[Gtek]

Having thought about this for several days and the what would I do scenarios played out, not being educated on this particular rifle I went to looking. 48 twist and roundball? If no external damage why not look into reline with a 66-72 saving configuration and previous external work and probably cheaper than a new barrel install. No guarantee of total success but would think it high percentage removing most of if not all critical cracked and stressed area in drilling for liner. Cut off 2" (think that would be enough by your 1/2"-3/4" forward measurement) and move dove tails on bottom and cut a little off aft lower rib/rod. I thought I've seen that as the Hunter model 30"? And as stated earlier, your ten year old shot enough barrel in incredibly spotless clean clean, would enjoy reading your cleaning process. There is a fellow on here that is an artist with that liner stuff!

[Bphunter]

I tried a long list of online stores (including the ones mentioned above) and nobody had a lefty GPR barrel in stock. So I contacted Lyman and they too had no .54 barrels but they were able to find me a .50 cal slow-twist barrel. Since this is my primary match rifle, .50 cal will be a little more pleasant to shoot anyway (and cheaper). I'm probably lucky to have this one since Lyman dropped Investarms and now uses Pedersoli. Sadly, there are no left-hand GPR's in the Pedersoli lineup.

[725]

I'd think of it like this: The cost of the barrel is less than the cost of a trip to the hospital.

[John Taylor]

I have a new left hand 50 cal barrel in stock. It looks like a drop in for a T/C Hawkins, includes sights and under rib.

[Bphunter]

I have a new left hand 50 cal barrel in stock. It looks like a drop in for a T/C Hawkins, includes sights and under rib.

Thanks, but I have a new barrel already on the way from Lyman.

[2152hq]

I was told that the problem they had with the crack(s) was from the assembly of the breechplug to the bbl. Simple overtightening. Probably done with an airwrench set up of some sort in todays factory settings.
Slightly out of spec shoulders on the bbl or plug or both and then needing some extra crunch & crush to make them allaign the flats where needed. I could see where a soft steel bbl being nothing more than a tube could start to twist and set up a fracture point.

That's how it was explained to me, and me not being a real life mechanical engineer type, just passing the info along.

Upon seeing those cracks, I'd have cut a couple inches off the breech and set the bbl back. It takes some work.

Getting an orig length factory replacement bbl for a drop in is way easier though.

[Bphunter]

First thing I'm going to do with the new barrel is run the bore scope down and have a look. I'll post a pic of the new barrel for comparison. It's really amazing how much the bore scope magnifies the images. It makes the machine work look so crude you wonder why patches don't shred. Yet with the naked eye the tooling marks are barely visible.

[Edward]

Sounds like a plan ,a good plan/Ed

[Gtek]

Yep, I had a lot of mirror bores till I bought one of those things!

[FLINTNFIRE]

I would use that barrel after shortened and re breached for building another gun , after cutting off the crack , tap and breach get a stock to inlet , it already has the barrel tenons and sights , time for a custom build of your own .