Minimum trigger weight for self defense?

[Idaho45guy]

Ordered a new trigger assembly for my Glock that is supposed to give it 1911 level crispness with around 3 lbs of pull weight. Hoping to try a combo of other components that raises that to 4 lbs.

I have a S&W M&P40c with a 4 lb weight using an Apex sear and it is wonderful. Of course, I also have a safety on it.

Most of my other carry guns have weights of around 5 lbs, which isn't bad. I can still get good groups with 5 lbs if it is crisp with a consistent wall.

Curious as to what others consider adequate pull weight for carrying concealed.

[243winxb]

4.5 to 5 lbs . A Taurus G3C was tested by the NRA. Came in at 4lbs 10 oz. Perfect for a striker fired 9mm pistol. Mine shoots ok with home cast. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/9mm-luger-taurus-g3c-lee-356-120-tc.317/&page=3

[Bigslug]

There is case law on the books in Texas where a community paid out some huge sum to a guy that was accidentally plugged by an officer running a factory "minus" connector in his duty Glock that got it below the standard 5.5 pounds. Usually this equates to about 4.5#, but can be less if one starts buffing things.

The National Institute of Justice standard for a striker fired gun is 5# or more. Some of the other systems allow for lighter. . .BUT. . .

My general take is that:

1. The primary desirable quality of a defensive firearm is that it WORK. I've seen failures to reset on revolvers due to clipped rebound springs; I've seen failures to fire due to lightened mainsprings; I've seen 1911's double or fall to half-cock due to tweaked sear springs or sear engagement surfaces. A proper combat gun should ALWAYS go off when you want it to, and NEVER go off when you don't, even when buttstroking or bayoneting someone to death with it, and your frozen fingers should be able to feel that they are on the trigger before they trip it.

2. If you need a lightened trigger to hit defense-realistic sized targets at defense-realistic distances, your technique is probably based on slapping the trigger the instant you think the sight picture is going to somehow magically freeze over the exact, infinitesimally small geometric center of the target. Learn to maintain alignment while pressing the trigger in a way that does not disturb that alignment, and you will achieve enlightenment (TIP - time spent running a DA revolver really hammers this lesson home)

Do a search for "Las Vegas PD Negligent Discharge". Pistol in question is a Beretta 92 or 96 that starts the video with the hammer down in the DA first shot mode. Even the ten pound pull didn't prevent the "BANG!" Adrenaline is a crazy substance. If you need to "skin that smokewagon and go to work", rest assured you will not be in a chill, Bullseye match frame of mind.

As long as it's CLEAN, heavy doesn't bother me - at least not until you get up into the 18# range that a lot of PPK's operate in for their first DA round. . .

[DougGuy]

WHY would you want to change a defensive carry gun? That just presents the prosecution yet another "Easter Egg" they will use against you. It's STUPID to libel yourself to this.

I guarantee that if you ever do have to draw and fire in a REAL LIFE defense situation, the difference in the trigger pull will be the LAST thing you think about!

Edit: My edc is a Kahr CW45 which ships with a buttery smooth DA every time trigger. In rapid fire I have no problem controlling the groups and keeping them within a reasonable strike zone at 20 yards. I have never bothered with how much trigger pull weight it takes to fire the gun as it's never been even a question I would need to address.

If the factory trigger sucks so badly that you can't keep the group within a reasonable strike zone at self defense distances, you need a new edc or some better training or both.

[MrWolf]

I am not aware of any case of a non-factory trigger being used against someone in court. I am not an attorney. That being said, my concealed carry insurance did have a blurb about using factory triggers. I did the Apex trigger on my M&P 45c and that was always in the back of my mind. Gave me a good reason to try and love my Sig P229in 357 sig which has become my go to carry. I am getting the compact 357 sig also and should have all my bases covered from warm to cold weather.

[Bigslug]

I am not aware of any case of a non-factory trigger being used against someone in court.

Here ya go: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2018/02/massad-ayoob-gun-hair-trigger/

Ayoob's done a more detailed article on the Santibantes/Tomball case: https://americanhandgunner.com/the-ayoob-files/unintended-shot-the-santibanes-incident/

In line with my first post, the gun must work first and foremost and fire control mods start messing with the core of what makes the gun run.

The lawyers will chew from any angle they can. Ayoob's articles show that they will chew on you for modifying your gun, but the customer will be hiring more lawyers to chew on the manufacturers if that gun lets them down. Smith, Colt, Ruger, Glock, etc... make their guns the way they do for a reason. Put simply, it's a parachute. A parachute HAS to open. Replacing your double-stitched cordura nylon rip cord handle with a lace doily because it better reflects your personal identity choices is not smart. Neither is taking the core operating guts of your firearm out of factory spec.

[tazman]

I have damage to my trigger finger from an old injury plus arthritis. It makes pulling a heavy trigger painful and sometimes nearly impossible.
In order for me to properly control a handgun, I need a trigger in the 3.5-4.5 range, preferably on the lighter side.
I work with double action revolvers as much as I can stand, in order to strengthen my fingers. Other than switching to shooting with my off hand, there is not much I can do about it.
I practice with my off hand in case of need but I doubt I will ever have the aiming ability I have with my dominant hand.
Sometimes you just have to deal with what life gives you. If I am still alive to deal with the lawyers after a shooting confrontation, I will just have to do that and consider it a better outcome than losing my life.

[TNsailorman]

There is an old saying that is a bit trite but is true none the less; "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6". james

[RJM52]

1911: 4#+-

Stock G19: 3.5# takeup with a 5# 3 oz. break

S&W DA revolver: Change out the rebound spring for a 13#..mainspring stays stock. Never a problem with ignition or trigger return

Have three Kahrs in 9mm and .380 that are all stock as is the S&W 6906 I carried for years...nothing needed...

[country gent]

For me weight isnt the real issue in a trigger but I do want smooth crisp and consistent brake point with it. At defensive ranges good effective groups can be shot with the heavy trigger. Groups do open up when the there is roughness and it breaks different each time.

Learn to shot the heavy trigger Practice practice practice. Here even dry fire will be a big help.

[square butte]

This is interesting - I have a Kimber micro nine with a trigger pull that comes in at about 11 lbs. Have been looking for someone to have a go at the trigger because I did not want to send it back to Kimber. I just can't shoot it well at that weight. I've been considering 5 to 6 pounds. I had not considered the liability issues of a trigger job on a defensive piece. I think I might want to have a gunsmith document the original weight and the corrected pull weight. Just a thought off the top of my head

[lawdog941]

For a self defense weapon, leave it stock. If used, it will be confiscated and detail examined. Any discrepancies from stock will be noted. Now you could have a "worn" sear or other stock part that would lighten trigger pull. As Tazman has a disadvantage, you could then lighten it up and more than likely it would be accepted. I'm not an Attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I shot thousands of rounds under the timer at matches with 3 lb. pulls. I think for an experienced shooter using a striker fired pistol 3 lbs. would be fine. I would probably just go with stock set up on those pistols though. Not sure I would go with a single action at all for self defense.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

1911: 4#+-

Stock G19: 3.5# takeup with a 5# 3 oz. break

S&W DA revolver: Change out the rebound spring for a 13#..mainspring stays stock. Never a problem with ignition or trigger return

Have three Kahrs in 9mm and .380 that are all stock as is the S&W 6906 I carried for years...nothing needed...

I too leave my revolver mainsprings stock. The rebound spring does improve things nicely.

[downzero]

I think this issue has had way more airplay than it's worth, the fire fed my Masaad Ayoob, who gets paid huge money to testify as an expert in the few close self defense cases where issues like that make it into court.

If you're really concerned about this, you should be FAR more concerned about living somewhere where your DA/State's Attorney/Commonwealth Attorney/elected Prosecutor has serious respect for self defense and handles these cases fairly when unfortunate, but otherwise decent people end up in a bad situation. Self defense cases should never be charged, so there should not even be a hearing where this could ever come up. If you live in a jurisdiction where your prosecutors are hostile to self defense, it's not going to matter how reasonably you acted or what tool you used, you may find yourself in jail, in court, and maybe in prison if the jury gets it wrong.

I generally carry factory guns on the street myself but it is mostly because of wanting the utmost of reliability.

Also, even superhuman people aren't winning any state/area/national USPSA match with 8 pound triggers. And even if they were, the people who are winning them could outshoot you even with your own gun. And you ain't beating them even with a fancy custom blaster. Such arguments teach nothing.

I once searched the two main databases to the ends of the earth to find cases where the trigger weight or handloaded ammunition were ever turned into an issue in a case, and I was unable to find any such reported case. It doesn't mean there aren't any, but I searched pretty far. This issue is way more common on the internet than it is in an actual courtroom.

[MrWolf]

Here ya go: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2018/02/massad-ayoob-gun-hair-trigger/

Ayoob's done a more detailed article on the Santibantes/Tomball case: https://americanhandgunner.com/the-ayoob-files/unintended-shot-the-santibanes-incident/

In line with my first post, the gun must work first and foremost and fire control mods start messing with the core of what makes the gun run.

The lawyers will chew from any angle they can. Ayoob's articles show that they will chew on you for modifying your gun, but the customer will be hiring more lawyers to chew on the manufacturers if that gun lets them down. Smith, Colt, Ruger, Glock, etc... make their guns the way they do for a reason. Put simply, it's a parachute. A parachute HAS to open. Replacing your double-stitched cordura nylon rip cord handle with a lace doily because it better reflects your personal identity choices is not smart. Neither is taking the core operating guts of your firearm out of factory spec.

Thanks for the info. I figured why chance it and ended up get a Sig which I may have never tried to my detriment.

[Idaho45guy]

For a self defense weapon, leave it stock. If used, it will be confiscated and detail examined. Any discrepancies from stock will be noted. Now you could have a "worn" sear or other stock part that would lighten trigger pull. As Tazman has a disadvantage, you could then lighten it up and more than likely it would be accepted. I'm not an Attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

So you're saying that if you use a firearm in self-defense, no matter the circumstances or jurisdiction, that the police will confiscate your firearm, and then run a bunch of tests, including a trigger pull gauge, to make sure the gun was not modified in any way?

Have you ever been a cop, or known a cop?

Curious as to where you are getting this impression.

[Catshooter]

So you're saying that if you use a firearm in self-defense, no matter the circumstances or jurisdiction, that the police will confiscate your firearm, and then run a bunch of tests, including a trigger pull gauge, to make sure the gun was not modified in any way?

Have you ever been a cop, or known a cop?

Curious as to where you are getting this impression.

You make an excellent point. Chicago? God save you in that hellhole. Where I live at the corner of No & Where? My cop (we only have one) would either criticize or praise my marksmanship, depending. And hand me my gun back.

Not everyone lives in the big anti-gun city.


Cat

[lawdog941]

So you're saying that if you use a firearm in self-defense, no matter the circumstances or jurisdiction, that the police will confiscate your firearm, and then run a bunch of tests, including a trigger pull gauge, to make sure the gun was not modified in any way?

Have you ever been a cop, or known a cop?

Curious as to where you are getting this impression.

Still a street cop for over 20 years. I always play devils advocate. So I am aware of both sides of possibilities. In Ohio, if anyone is injured or dies as a result of a firearm, and it is found on scene, it will be seized. While it is in the property room, it is subject to testing by the Detectives handling the case, or the Prosecutor getting it inspected or tested. What kind of testing/inspection is up to the Prosecutor. It all mostly depends on the Prosecutor and their stance on self defense. That is where I'm coming from, in your area, things may be totally different with Laws and Investigations. I would not chance it, but that is a personal choice. Sorry if you misunderstood my statement.

[Thumbcocker]

Deleted

[lar45]

In Idaho, there was an incident where a guy shot his buddy with a FMJ Derringer while taking it off of safety. He was found guilty because he had modified the trigger to give it an easier pull.
I've owned 4 FMJ Derringers and have worked on several more. The triggers aren't measured in pounds, but in Pain. You really have to crank on the damn things to get them to go off. The problem with them is that the spur trigger doesn't extend out past the frame very far. On Mine, I would recut the sear engagement surfaces to allow the trigger to swing out just a little bit more. It makes them much more pleasant to shoot. I talked with the smith who examined the pistol and was the state's expert witness. He said that he didn't like it, but had to testify that it made the derringer much easier to fire.

[Thumbcocker]

So you're saying that if you use a firearm in self-defense, no matter the circumstances or jurisdiction, that the police will confiscate your firearm, and then run a bunch of tests, including a trigger pull gauge, to make sure the gun was not modified in any way?

Have you ever been a cop, or known a cop?

Curious as to where you are getting this impression.
You started this thread asking for opinions and advice. You got it from someone with lots of experience and now argue with his advice.

So here goes. 32 years as a prosecutor. Have tried criminal cases from speeding tickets to homicides. I have personally dealt with 2 instances where a citizen shot a bad guy. Both times the bad guy lived. In both cases I spoke to the citizen and told them no charges would be filed. These were very clear cut cases. The weapons used were taken as evidence by the investigating officer. That is their job. The weapons were returned later but the responding officer does not make the charging decision.

Prosecutors are elected their assistants are not. The assistants are made aware of the policies of the office holder and may have wide discretion in what they do within those policies. I was free to do whatever I wanted with a case if I had a valid reason.

The boss may be more hands on in a high profile case but the grunt work is still done by the assistants. The elected official will do their best to reflect the will of the voters. Those are the people who hired them and let them keep their jobs. So no, not everyone will be prosecuted in a shooting situation. It will depend on the facts of each case. The community that the prosecutor serves is also an issue.

What might be a no brainer in one are might be a close case in another. I can not imagine any situation where an LEO would roll up to a scene where there is a dead guy and a person with a gun and just say "great shot heres your pistol have a nice day". It will be bagged and tagged.

In many places the coroner will also do an investigation.

Part 2.

Almost all threads that "what if" about a shooting focus on criminal prosecution and the evil prosecutor out to flay the honest citizen. They totally ignore the Civil law aspect.

A civil attorney generally gets paid from any settlement they get. Their paycheck depends on getting money from you. Civil discovery rules are MUCH more sweeping than criminal rules. You can expect depositions, document production, and dealing with enough paper to deforest a small county. Your gun would ABSOLUTELY be examined by an expert hired by the person you shot or their estate. A magical things happens when a career dirt bag dies.

They become a pillar of their community, loving parent, beloved by family and friends, and all around great person cut down by a trigger happy wacko who wasn't happy with the stock trigger on their little death machine. They had to make it even more deadly.

The tactics of the Civil suit will be to get you or (hopefully) your insurance carrier pony up as much money as possible without a trial. Remember that is their paycheck. The process will take years.

Stick with the stock trigger.

[lawdog941]

You started this thread asking for opinions and advice. You got it from someone with lots of experience and now argue with his advice.

So here goes. 32 years as a prosecutor. Have tried criminal cases from speeding tickets to homicides. I have personally dealt with 2 instances where a citizen shot a bad guy. Both times the bad guy lived. In both cases I spoke to the citizen and told them no charges would be filed. These were very clear cut cases. The weapons used were taken as evidence by the investigating officer. That is their job. The weapons were returned later but the responding officer does not make the charging decision.

Prosecutors are elected their assistants are not. The assistants are made aware of the policies of the office holder and may have wide discretion in what they do within those policies. I was free to do whatever I wanted with a case if I had a valid reason.

The boss may be more hands on in a high profile case but the grunt work is still done by the assistants. The elected official will do their best to reflect the will of the voters. Those are the people who hired them and let them keep their jobs. So no, not everyone will be prosecuted in a shooting situation. It will depend on the facts of each case. The community that the prosecutor serves is also an issue.

What might be a no brainer in one are might be a close case in another. I can not imagine any situation where an LEO would roll up to a scene where there is a dead guy and a person with a gun and just say "great shot heres your pistol have a nice day". It will be bagged and tagged.

In many places the coroner will also do an investigation.

Part 2.

Almost all threads that "what if" about a shooting focus on criminal prosecution and the evil prosecutor out to flay the honest citizen. They totally ignore the Civil law aspect.

A civil attorney generally gets paid from any settlement they get. Their paycheck depends on getting money from you. Civil discovery rules are MUCH more sweeping than criminal rules. You can expect depositions, document production, and dealing with enough paper to deforest a small county. Your gun would ABSOLUTELY be examined by an expert hired by the person you shot or their estate. A magical things happens when a career dirt bag dies.

They become a pillar of their community, loving parent, beloved by family and friends, and all around great person cut down by a trigger happy wacko who wasn't happy with the stock trigger on their little death machine. They had to make it even more deadly.

The tactics of the Civil suit will be to get you or (hopefully) your insurance carrier pony up as much money as possible without a trial. Remember that is their paycheck. The process will take years.

Stick with the stock trigger.

+1, didn't want to mention the Civil aspect, but it's always there lurking.

[downzero]

So you're saying that if you use a firearm in self-defense, no matter the circumstances or jurisdiction, that the police will confiscate your firearm, and then run a bunch of tests, including a trigger pull gauge, to make sure the gun was not modified in any way?

Have you ever been a cop, or known a cop?

Curious as to where you are getting this impression.

If you use a firearm in self defense, it will be seized. That is routine even in officer involved shootings, even where nobody is hit.

As to whether there will be ballistic testing, firearm toolmark analysis, etc., that is determined on a case by case basis.

I have never had one tested for trigger pull weight that I recall. I have seen them inspected to see if they function and even fired to make sure they function, but even that is not common. Normally they just get put in box or bag and left there for years until it's time for court.

[megasupermagnum]

You started this thread asking for opinions and advice. You got it from someone with lots of experience and now argue with his advice.

So here goes. 32 years as a prosecutor. Have tried criminal cases from speeding tickets to homicides. I have personally dealt with 2 instances where a citizen shot a bad guy. Both times the bad guy lived. In both cases I spoke to the citizen and told them no charges would be filed. These were very clear cut cases. The weapons used were taken as evidence by the investigating officer. That is their job. The weapons were returned later but the responding officer does not make the charging decision.

Prosecutors are elected their assistants are not. The assistants are made aware of the policies of the office holder and may have wide discretion in what they do within those policies. I was free to do whatever I wanted with a case if I had a valid reason.

The boss may be more hands on in a high profile case but the grunt work is still done by the assistants. The elected official will do their best to reflect the will of the voters. Those are the people who hired them and let them keep their jobs. So no, not everyone will be prosecuted in a shooting situation. It will depend on the facts of each case. The community that the prosecutor serves is also an issue.

What might be a no brainer in one are might be a close case in another. I can not imagine any situation where an LEO would roll up to a scene where there is a dead guy and a person with a gun and just say "great shot heres your pistol have a nice day". It will be bagged and tagged.

In many places the coroner will also do an investigation.

Part 2.

Almost all threads that "what if" about a shooting focus on criminal prosecution and the evil prosecutor out to flay the honest citizen. They totally ignore the Civil law aspect.

A civil attorney generally gets paid from any settlement they get. Their paycheck depends on getting money from you. Civil discovery rules are MUCH more sweeping than criminal rules. You can expect depositions, document production, and dealing with enough paper to deforest a small county. Your gun would ABSOLUTELY be examined by an expert hired by the person you shot or their estate. A magical things happens when a career dirt bag dies.

They become a pillar of their community, loving parent, beloved by family and friends, and all around great person cut down by a trigger happy wacko who wasn't happy with the stock trigger on their little death machine. They had to make it even more deadly.

The tactics of the Civil suit will be to get you or (hopefully) your insurance carrier pony up as much money as possible without a trial. Remember that is their paycheck. The process will take years.

Stick with the stock trigger.

I'm not sure if you would know or not, but who would be hired as an expert to examine the firearm? More importantly, how would anyone be able to tell if it has been modified? Here is an example, my GP100's. I have two of them. Both of them came right off the factory floor with triggers that break under 3 pounds. Double action is of course much heavier. I've since polished the moving parts, and both have SA triggers that break just over 2 pounds, but are much smoother. So how is anyone supposed to know that they have been modified, rather than having 10,000+ rounds down range?

To be fair, my three main carry guns have unmodified triggers.

[Thumbcocker]

My career was criminal law. I do know a little about Civil law and several civil attorneys. Also keep in mind that we have a federalist system where States may have significantly different laws.

An expert would be someone with specialized knowledge on the issues. Some are legit some are prostitutes. Any lawyer magazine has ads for various experts in them. I am ASSUMING that an expert would testify as to what the trigger pull range for the make and model is as it leaves the factory. Maybe there would be a deposition of a factory representative about that. Are the spring weights consistent with factory parts? Same diameter? Is this striker or hammer consistent with the part as it left the factory? So it has been modified? You get the idea. Keep in mind I am playing devils advocate here. Also keep in mind that Civil lawyers like to sue everyone. Even if the case is weak they may score some fast bucks to settle from one party. It is almost a legal form of extortion. Give me money and I will go away.

Also Civil discovery is broad. You could be ordered to provide passwords for all your social media accounts. Any posts there that might be taken out of context? Emails? Credit card or bank records showing you orderd a spring kit. Maybe an "I dial 1911" bumper sticker.

Even if the case settles or is dismissed you are looking at potentially years of dealing with an unpleasant situation. It might happen regardless in a totally lawfully justified shooting. My point is why take an action that provides very little if any advantage for a ccw gun and give the other side a free issue.

There is a reason that training courses emphasize that shooting someone will change your life for ever. Even in a perfect situation there can be adverse consequences for years.

[Handloader109]

Get a walther pp2 (or one of the newer models) if you really need a lighter than a glock trigger. It isn't a 2 pound trigger, but they have a way better feel in my opinion. And no, don't alter EDC gun. at all

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Win94ae]

I didn't know what mine were, so I tested.

The S&W 66 is a 3.25lbs. single action, 8.5 double action.
Taurus 85 is a 3.25lbs. single action, and 10 double action.

The Remington 1911 R1s in 45acp, and the S&W 1911 Pro Series 9mm are both 3.5lbs..

I only have a preference when I have thick gloves on; then I want a double action trigger.

[Win94ae]

In Idaho, there was an incident where a guy shot his buddy with a FMJ Derringer while taking it off of safety. He was found guilty because he had modified the trigger to give it an easier pull.
I've owned 4 FMJ Derringers and have worked on several more. The triggers aren't measured in pounds, but in Pain. You really have to crank on the damn things to get them to go off. The problem with them is that the spur trigger doesn't extend out past the frame very far. On Mine, I would recut the sear engagement surfaces to allow the trigger to swing out just a little bit more. It makes them much more pleasant to shoot. I talked with the smith who examined the pistol and was the state's expert witness. He said that he didn't like it, but had to testify that it made the derringer much easier to fire.

I have a Davis D-22 22lr derringer, it has a 25lbs trigger pull. Most people can't get it to go off, because they pull at the trigger's center, I pull it at the end for the leverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz1taXV73bY

[Idaho45guy]

I actually considered all the arguments and points made and altered my line of thinking.

Watched a video by a fellow name Johnny Glock in which he chases down heavy and gritty trigger pulls. Applied it to my G23 trigger and got it down to 5.5 lbs. Then ended up taking the OEM trigger assembly out of my G35 match gun that had a trigger pull of 4.25 lbs and installed it in the G23.

Glocks are weird in that no two triggers are alike and will be different in different frames. My G23 now has a 4.5 lb pull, with no grit, predictable wall, and has all factory components in it. Perfect for carry and range use.

Will install the Timney trigger in my match gun where it will only be used at the range and in competition.

See, some people on the internet can actually listen to different views and change their opinions... :wink:

[W.R.Buchanan]

IDA45 I kind of have to disagree about Glock Triggers all being different. I have 3 Glocks. A 23, 35 and 21SF All of these guns have exactly the same trigger pull characteristics and weight. All had Wolfe 4lb striker springs until last week when the G35 started missing hits, so I went back and put a new stock striker spring in it. Now it is reliable again. In defense of the lighter springs, it did have 5000 rounds on that spring. I got three new springs so I will change out the other two guns when I feel like it. These guns all have the 5.5 lb, Connector.

I can tell that the G35 has a slightly stiffer Trigger pull, but not enough to affect my shooting with that gun.

Quite Frankly I see nothing wrong with a Stock Glock Trigger once they are broken in they work just fine and anyone can learn one if they try hard enough.

One thing I do to mine is shave the trigger safety down to where it is just barely proud of the trigger face when depressed. I haven't had a groove in my trigger finger since 2007.

If I was going to carry a gun it would be my G23 and I would put the stock spring back in it for the sake of reliability. It isn't that much different than the 4LB spring, but that gun FTF's occasionally and it would never FTF with the stock Striker spring in it.

Glock has these guns pretty well figured out. Sometimes it is best to just learn to run something like it came out of the box.

All the other controls on my guns are identical G35 Slide Lock, Extended Mag Release, Better Sights.

Randy

[charlie b]

My opinion started with a CCW mandatory training class many years ago. This particular instruction did a great job on the mental and practical aspects of when to use a gun. He went over the problems with civil suits vs criminal cases as well as presenting many situations where you would or would not want to use your gun. A great classroom session.

The questions were such that my wife stopped carrying, she did not want to get into that situation, even if it meant her life or someone else's. It also caused me to carry only stock guns for self defense.

All of that sticks with me when I do carry. It is a heavy burden and should cause you to think a LOT before grabbing a gun for self defense.

[robertbank]

Walther ships it's PPQ and PDPline out with 5.6lb triggers Mine all came shipped with exactly 5.6lb triggers. The guns, after a few thousand rounds see those triggers drop to around 5lb. I use my guns for competition but would not want a trigger pull to be much lessthan 5lbs for IDPA competitions. I don't carry a gun for self defense against 2 legged folks and carry a revolver for four legged. My GP-100 has a DA trigger pull close to 10lbs and I shoot it fine, certainly good enough for the uses mentioned.

Take Care

Bob

[Idaho45guy]

Installed the Timney trigger in my G23 with a heavier connector and was rewarded with a 3.75 lb trigger with little travel, almost no creep, predictable wall, and just about the most perfect trigger you could ask for.

Then I heard that the Timney trigger wasn't drop safe. Hogwash. No way a company like Timney would produce a trigger for a Glock that wasn't drop safe. So, I took my G23 and tossed it and dropped it on the floor. Hardwood floor with an area rug, so no damage to the pistol.

Did that multiple times from multiple heights and angles. It released the firing pin about 50% of the time. Not good.

So I took the trigger out and put it in my G35 match gun with a minus connector and it has a pull of 2.5 lbs.

G23 is back to all OEM parts and 4.5 lb trigger.