8mm Lebel cast bullet load help?

[mkj4him]

I’ve cast and sized the 8mmKAR BULLET TO .3275.” It weighs 234grains from COWW plus 2% Sn. Bullets are powder coated and gas checked. I’ve determined seating depth in my chamber so bullet nose is just engaging lands. Gas check is hanging down into the case. I’ve settled on a starting load of 39 grains IMR 4895. CCI 200 LRPs.

I just need someone to tell me this is a good starting point with this heavy bullet. I don’t want to blow anything up. Anybody have other suggestions of powders with this bullet?

[Adam Helmer]

mk,

Where did you get your load data? Didn't they offer a safe starting load?

Adam

[btreanor]

I've used IMR 4895 for a lot of milsurp rifles and I've had great luck with it- including the 8x50R Lebel. Personally, I'd start around 28 grains and then work up from there to get your best accuracy. I think 39 grains is a bit too high for a starting load. Good luck and please report back! :-D

[.455 Webley]

Sound high for a cast starting load. How did you get to that weight?

[Eddie1971]

I'm loading for 8mm Lebel now too. I think 39 grains of 4895 is way high. I say start at 32 grains. Also what are you shooting that out of? I didnt have any luck with the Karabiner mold and Lebel. Get the Lee .329 meant for 8x56. It works awesome in Lebel.

[mkj4him]

Well I shot several of those loads. Nice round primers. Looks good to me. I will chrono same load soon. Stupid rain.

I’m shooting out of a Lebel 1886/93

[Adam Helmer]

mk,

Second Request: Where did you get your load data?

Be well.

Adam

[.455 Webley]

Still curious what source listed that as a starting load.

[mkj4him]

Ok. Cartridges of the world lists starting load in 8x50R with 200 grain bullet and IMR 4895 as 45 grains. I also have in my notes recorded data I got from one of these forums that lists 39 grains as starting load for a Sierra 220 grain jacketed bullet that they had used to safely work up to 45 grains. Taking 10% from 45 I got 40.5 grains for a start load. I deferred to the other persons starting load of 39 grains and so far that load is perfectly safe in my Lebel rifle. I hope this clears things up.

[Eddie1971]

It will be safe but it won't be accurate. Also that Karabiner head will be too small for your 1886. You need something .328 or up.

[mkj4him]

My bullets are dropping around .331 and I’m sizing to .328.
I have yet to check accuracy. Just function.

I’ve looked for Lee .329-205 for 8x56 but all sold out.

[GregLaROCHE]

Have you slugged the bore yet? Getting the correct boolit dimension is an important starting point when beginning to shoot lead. You may want to add some PC if you need slightly greater diameter.

[mkj4him]

I did chamber cast. I am doing powder coating. Bore just in front of chamber is right at .327

[GregLaROCHE]

What the boolit dia after PC? Is your GC possibly a little larger than the PCed boolit? Sounds like you’re just at the minimum diameter unless the GC is making a good seal and the boolit is riding the bore.

[mkj4him]

I PC the bullet then add gas check and size with Lee .329 sizer. This gives .3275-.328” diameter. The gas check is right at .328. Again, the bore is .327”
I also have a Lee .330 sizer that sizes to .3285-.329”. I will try these after testing the .328’s. The bore of the rifle looks pretty good. Not mirror shiny but no pitting that I can see.

[mkj4him]

Velocity Test Result.

Based on the following test results I would agree that 39 grains of IMR 4895 should not be considered a start load for 234 grain cast boolits. That being said, apparently, my particular rifle seems capable of handling it.

Thes following loads use a Lee 8mmKAR 6 gang mold dropping at 234 grains with WW + 2% tin.
Bullets are powder coated, then gas checked/ sized to .3275 with Lee .329 sizer/punch. Boolits seated to 2.590” with bullet nose just slightly engaging rifling.

39grains IMR 4895
Shot 1. V= 2127 FPS. Primer looks good. Primer looks good. Easy extraction.
Shot 2. LabRadar failed to read. Still trying to figure these errors out.
Shot 3. Primer failed to fire. Another issue I’m having. Happened twice the other day. Fired on second try. Unfortunately the powder coat on this bucket was extra thick apparently at the nose so bullet stuck on extraction, spilling powder into action. Paused for quick clean up.

39.5 grains IMR 4895
Va2= 2156 fps.
Shot 1. V=2171
Shot 2. V=2141
Shot 3. Failure to read V.
Primer look good. Stout recoil. Easy extraction.

40 grains IMR 4895
One round. Failed to Read V. Primer looks good. Stout recoil. Easy extraction.
I will be calling LabRadar about failed readings.
Firing pin may need longer spring. I cut Rem M700 spring in half.
Future loading I will be reducing charge down to around 2000 FPS as over 2100 FPS is a bit stout for this gun on a continuous basis. Nice to know it can handle it though.

See primers in Pics. Please comment.
285096

[GregLaROCHE]

It will be interesting to hear about your results when sizing larger.
Also, one of the reasons for starting with less powder and working up, is that the sweet spot for accuracy may be with less powder.

[mkj4him]

It will be interesting to hear about your results when sizing larger.
Also, one of the reasons for starting with less powder and working up, is that the sweet spot for accuracy may be with less powder.
I have been reloading for 30 years and ALWAYS start low. But in this case there is no published data for an obsolete cartridge. I had to use the information available to come up with a load I felt was safe to start with. As in all things, there are always variations. In this case, 39 grains was not a starting load but turned out safe. Thank the Lord.
I’m honestly curious how all of you came to the conclusion 39 grains was too high for a starting load for a 234 grains bullet? What data were you referring to to come to that conclusion. Not griping, just curious. If you guys have a source for more load data for cast bullets, please share. I’ve already collected a number of data listing, either from here or maybe milsurps.com or similar.

As far as sizing larger, I will probably need to find a different bullet design to continue using power coating. Maybe the Lee .329-202 assuming I can locate one. As for the KAR mold I will probably need to switch to tumble lubing with Xlox 45-45-10. Same thing I had to do with my 35 Remington using the Lee358-200-FR. it too turns out to be a bore riding nose design.

[Eddie1971]

So far my Berthier likes the Lee .329 and I powder coat and gas check sized to .330. My loads have been 36 grains of IMR4350 with standard primer. Other is 33 grains of W748 using a magnum primer.

[mkj4him]

So far my Berthier likes the Lee .329 and I powder coat and gas check sized to .330. So far my loads have been 36 grains of IMR4350 with standard primer. Other is 33 grains of W748 using a magnum primer.
What is your bore diameter? Sounds like it’s a bit worn. So the .329 takes PC fine with no bore riding? Sound like just what I need. Now if only I can find one.

I also have the Lee 8mmMAX mold which is supposed to be even heavier. Can’t image what it would throw at. I haven’t tried it yet.

[mkj4him]

I live on a river. I shot from my deck down into the edge of the water, passing through a foot of water before digging into the soft sandy bottom.
The recovered bullet was mushroomed and had a retained weight of about 51%. 118.9 grains remained of the 234.

285112

[mkj4him]

Just looking at original 8x50Rmm ball N data,
15 g (231 gr) Balle N FMJ 690 m/s (2,300 ft/s) 3,751 J (2,767 ft⋅lbf)

So if a 231gr FMJ is safe at 2300 FPS, I should be in safe territory with my 234gr PC cast at 2157 FPS with still room to go up a bit. I just don’t want to go past a safe level. So far I’ve seen no leading.

[Eddie1971]

Its not that its unsafe going faster but it just wont be accurate.

[mkj4him]

Thank you. I’m going to back down the ladder scale a bit. Find a sweet spot.

[iron brigade]

I shoot 13 grains of unique and the lee .329 in my berthier. 8 grains of unique and a pb boolit it also works well.

[pworley1]

Not specific to the Lebel but If you haven't read what Ed Harris had to say about cast in military rifles it is a good place to start. http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/Classics/Cast%20Bullet%20loads%20for%20Military%20rifles.pd f

[Dhall_37]

Hey, something I’ve done is take load max load data for H4895 and use the 60% reduced load and replace a same weight cast bullet for the lead bullet in my Carcano with coated gas checked, seemed to work well, velocity was around 22LR speed.