Is water the new oil

[farmbif]

pulling up youtube there are all these current videos about drought, 1200 year drought in US, how crops are going to fail forcing food prices up, etc etc etc
got me remembering back about a dozen years go of so reading how the Bush family bought up like a kazillion acres in central and south america with some of the finest water supplies on earth.
food prices sure are up that's one thing I know for sure after trip to grocery store

[redneck1]

That's from unchecked inflation not drought

[Gator 45/70]

Son and I bought a young cow that couldn't breed.
Went in 50/50 with him, We have plenty ground beef.

[tomme boy]

What do you think would happen when you farm in the middle of a desert? Early 1900's they drained the 9th largest body of water in the USA in California to get land to grow cotton.

It is happening all over the USA. It will only get worse. The huge aquifer in the middle of the USA is next. California wants to tap into it to supply their needs. If they do then it will start the Midwest on an accelerated pace to end up like California is in.

[rockrat]

And the bad thing is, when California runs out of water, they will head out to the rest of the US and drain their resources. You think the exodus now is bad, just wait.

[cwtebay]

My grandfather always said that whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting for. I believe that it's going to be there pretty soon.

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[rancher1913]

neighbour piece about a mile from me just sold at auction, it had 40 acre feet of ditch water on 80 acres of ground, the water sold for more than the ground. an acre foot of water is enough to cover an acre 1 foot deep, sounds like a lot but that has to last all year and around here we dont get much rain. if you figure some places get 3 inches of rain a week an acre foot is the equivalent to 4 rains.

[sghart3578]

Water has always been a source of power and wealth especially in the desert Southwest. Greed and corruption are hallmarks of the western water wars.

It was even used as a plot device in the Jack Nicholson movie "Chinatown".

The people that control the water control everything. LA Water and Power is a prime example of this. The rich in S California are never bothered in low water conditions but the middle and lower classes get shafted.

I agree that this is what happens when you farm a desert. But the original vision was to build several dams and water storage projects here to carry our state through the dry years and to accomodate future growth.

But the liberals and greenies took over the state and we never built any dams or increased our water storage.

A funny story that illustrates the corruption and arrogance of LAWP. A few years ago we were experiencing another drought. LAWP told their customers that water was tight so could you please try and conserve. If they didn't conserve they would have to raise rates to discourage wasteful use. They did conserve.

But the water bills are based on the amount that you use. Since water use was down revenue for the water district was down. So LAWP sent out a letter saying that since the revenues were down they would have to raise rates to make up the short fall.

True story. I will try to find a link and post it here.

Good luck my friends.


Steve in N CA

PS Here is just one of the stories:

https://www.dailynews.com/2015/10/20/la-dwp-other-utilities-to-raise-water-rates-because-of-drought/

[rockrat]

I remember that, think it happened in Denver too.

[Omega]

The romans were able to build aqueducts, with primitive equipment, that went hundreds of kilometers, why can't we divert water from were rivers dump into the ocean?

[MUSTANG]

The romans were able to build aqueducts, with primitive equipment, that went hundreds of kilometers, why can't we divert water from were rivers dump into the ocean?

Short answer: Greenies, Eco Freaks, Socialists, Self Serving Politicians. Answer beyond that could be extensive.

[JimB..]

Short answer: Greenies, Eco Freaks, Socialists, Self Serving Politicians. Answer beyond that could be extensive.
It’s a little more complicated than that. The best short answer is probably cost.

There will be wars fought over water.

[Lloyd Smale]

hope so. I live about a 200 yards from lake superior and would gladly swap you water for guns.

[myg30]

Is it to costly to use ocean water like they do on carriers ? I would think by now there must be means to convert it. I know they spent millions if not billions to remove oil and sludge from the ocean.

Just thinking out loud, Mike

[Finster101]

Is it to costly to use ocean water like they do on carriers ? I would think by now there must be means to convert it. I know they spent millions if not billions to remove oil and sludge from the ocean.

Just thinking out loud, Mike



I think desalinization is expensive but CA and FL are going to have to start looking at it. Where I am at every winter is now a drought. The fresh water canals get so low they are unusable. We are seeing saltwater intrusion in to some of the aquifers, yet they won't stop building like crazy and binging more people in to the area.

[starnbar]

Go out in the Gulf of Mexico due west from Tarpon springs and I will show you boils when the gulf is calm 100 feet across sit on the edge of that boil and catch red snapper Florida is a sponge and more water flows into the Gulf than will ever be used on land.

[sghart3578]

Desalinization is certainly viable. Israel has been doing it for years on a massive scale. It would work here also but our greenies won't even think about it.

[C.F.Plinker]

When you desalinate the ocean water what minerals other than salt do you recover? is there a market for them? If not, what do you do with them?

[bedbugbilly]

Never fear . . . . at some point the politicians will come up with a solution - OAC is already working on it but she better hurry up 'cause according to her life will end in a few years . . . . too bad we can't have a drought when it comes to career politicians . . .

[Gator 45/70]

The parish sells us rain drums ready to go here,35 bucks each,These are used to catch rainwater for the gardens.
Must sux to live in a Commie state where catching rain water is forbidden.

[Lloyd Smale]

Never fear . . . . at some point the politicians will come up with a solution - OAC is already working on it but she better hurry up 'cause according to her life will end in a few years . . . . too bad we can't have a drought when it comes to career politicians . . .

ya we will probably buy water from china and russia so we dont change the pristine salt water or God forbid kill a few frogs.

[Lloyd Smale]

The parish sells us rain drums ready to go here,35 bucks each,These are used to catch rainwater for the gardens.
Must sux to live in a Commie state where catching rain water is forbidden.

or somewhere you have to use rain barrels instead of your garden hose. My well is connected to the ground water of lake superior so i doubt ill ever run out. Even most the people in town that are forced to buy city water put a point down in there yard to get water for lawns and gardens so they dont spin there meter. 15 feet down around here and you have all the water you will ever need for gardening. If you want some of the best tasting water in the world go down 40 feet and refill your bottles.

[trebor44]

Short answer: Greenies, Eco Freaks, Socialists, Self Serving Politicians. Answer beyond that could be extensive.

How about there is no water in the rivers? Water is wasted on keeping useless things green! And sheeple are locked into their location, unlike the wild who will migrate as needed. It always comes down to 'population numbers'. Google the "lost forest"! Humans are not at the top of the food chain, despite their desire to be!

[Bmi48219]

I have mixed opinions about water rights. First off having to pay for bottled water that’s been drawn from aquifers at almost no cost is a sin. The net profit generated from bottled water should be limited to no more than 15% over total cost.
Second, developers and municipalities have no business permitting water consuming farms, businesses or neighborhoods in areas where the existing water supply can’t sustain such growth. Years ago the thirsty states wanted to build a pipeline to draw Great Lakes water. Some plans even required Great Lakes States to share in funding the project. This occurred during a oil shortage. I suggested to our state legislators we should charge a gallon of oil for each gallon of water.
Third, it’s everybody’s duty to always conserve water, all the time. Water is essential to sustain life. Irrigating lawns is a waste of a finite resource.
Fourth, fluoridating water causes way more harm than good.
Every time I turn on a faucet I think about how fortunate we are. There are large areas of this earth where people have to walk for hours to get enough water to last a day.

[MUSTANG]

When you desalinate the ocean water what minerals other than salt do you recover? is there a market for them? If not, what do you do with them?

Some examples and food for thought:


The almost 16,000 desalination plants operating worldwide discharge a typically hypersaline concentrated effluent. It has negative impacts but also a high concentration of valuable compounds such as lithium and magnesium. To reverse this dynamic, the Sea4Value research project is working to turn some of the brine into the EU’s third largest source of valuable raw materials.
https://eurecat.org/en/metals-minerals-seawater-desalination-plants-recovered-turned-raw-materials/

Saudi Arabia has the largest capacity of desalination inventory in the world. Desalination in Saudi Arabia account for approximately 50% of the world capacity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0011916487900889

During the seawater extraction process, many minerals occur as by-products in the exhausted brine. If these minerals are economically recovered, not only would the water production cost decline, but also the pollution problems associated with the brine disposal would to some appreciable extent abate. For example, it was estimated that the market value of Na, Ca, Mg, and K, if they are successfully extracted from the rejected brine of a desalination plant in Saudi Arabia, would be approximately $US18 billion per year.
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2017/ew/c6ew00268d

[waksupi]

The romans were able to build aqueducts, with primitive equipment, that went hundreds of kilometers, why can't we divert water from were rivers dump into the ocean?

The oceans need the fresh water to maintain a certain salinity level. Salt content gets too high, everything in the ocean dies.

California could solve a lot of their problems by shutting down car washes and lawn watering.

[quilbilly]

A few years back, there was an article in the Sacramento Bee newspaper about an intact sunken forest more than 150 feet down in Lake Tahoe. Samples taken by divers for dendrologists (tree ring experts) said that forest was above lake level for more than 50 years due to drought over 400 years ago. A scientist from the California water resources agency said that if that same extended multi-decade drought occurred today, California could only support a population of about 7 million. There are about 40 million in California today. Since the modern generation is incapable of building any large project in a speedy manner due to eco-fascist and NIMBY opposition, we all better hope the Pacific at the Equator warms up soon so more rain can come to California.

[MUSTANG]

From a Climate/Scientific aspect the "After the Forest" I think is more interesting. For the Forest to be "Intact" it had to be flooded after it grew; and before the Trees could decay after dying from being flooded. For this to occur - then there had to be significant Rain or Snow fall (probably Snow given Tahoe it's hydrology). This means that Tahoe experienced a Level Decline before and a significant subsequent Rise in water level BEFORE THE TECHNOLOGY REVOLUTION. Hmmmm casts some doubt on climatologist theories concerning Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change Agenda's if one simply looks at and analyzes "FACT" in the matter.



P.S. I used to SCUBA dive Tahoe extensively years ago. On several Rock outcroppings at 60 to 90 feet we discovered numerous "Grinding Holes" in multiple locations on dives. An example of "Grinding Holes" in the Sierra's can be found in this article: https://sierrafoothillgarden.com/2015/09/23/grinding-holes-in-the-sierra-foothills/ These Grinding Holes are indications that the Lake Level was much lower at some point in history because it takes a while to make the Grinding holes - and one does not grind pine nuts and other items for food underwater.

We never saw the forests because 90 feet was about the maximum one could go (very short stay at that depth) in Tahoe because of accelerated uptake of Nitrogen in the Blood Stream compared to the reduced partial pressures of the atmosphere at 6200 feet - High Altitude Diving is much more complex than diving at Sea Level.

[cwtebay]

Lawns vs. crops in the continental U.S. | Scienceline
"Lawns vs. crops in the continental U.S. | Scienceline" https://scienceline.org/2011/07/lawns-vs-crops-in-the-continental-u-s/




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[Duckiller]

There is no shortage of water. If there was a water shortage then building departments wouldn't issue permits for new houses. In a real drought if you wanted to build a three bath house you would have to take existing three bath out of service so you could have their water for your bath. What we have now is rhetoric to increase the cost of water to the consumer. Rich people don't care they can afford to pay what ever it cost. Middle and lower class may have to reduce the number of shower they take or shower together.
For those that care California has several large capacity desalination plants that can be brought on line if anyone is willing to pay for the water they produce. Water from the Sierras is a whole lot cheaper than water from the ocean. Communities that have built more homes than they have water to support are going to have some serious decisions in the future. It may be who lives and who dies. but first it will be how often do you shower and how often do you drink water. In a real long term drought life will not be pleasant in an overpopulated desert. If California goes into a long term drought as some one here said be prepared for a massive migration to the midwest and east.

[snowwolfe]

Water doesnt leave the earth. It just locates to somewhere else on the planet. Droughts in some areas..... rain forests, rivers, lakes, flooding, oceans in other areas. Its basically a reusable resource. It can go in the atmosphere compliments of humidity, steam, evaporation, etc. But it all comes back to the earth compliments of good old gravity.

[Gator 45/70]

or somewhere you have to use rain barrels instead of your garden hose. My well is connected to the ground water of lake superior so i doubt ill ever run out. Even most the people in town that are forced to buy city water put a point down in there yard to get water for lawns and gardens so they dont spin there meter. 15 feet down around here and you have all the water you will ever need for gardening. If you want some of the best tasting water in the world go down 40 feet and refill your bottles.

Oh no, The parish's ideal is to slow the run-off for flooding south of us, We catch the water and use it as needed instead of 100% hitting the ditch or in this case ''Coolies'' and flooding the towns south of here, I agree about the water wells, All the poor rice farmers have deep water wells, Some of the nicest cleanest water I've ever seen or tasted.

[Minerat]

I remember that, think it happened in Denver too.

It did, Denver Water Board also implemented if you use more then what they deemed appropriate for a family of 4 you pay triple. So the rate went up from conserving and the surcharge tacked on if you used more then your fair share as dictated but DWB. The prices never went back down and the surcharge is still in effect.

[MUSTANG]

Municipalities that complain about "Water" issues are often misdirecting the local populace. It is not the "Water" availability they are concerned with; rather it is the impact on sewage systems that must be expanded/upgraded/rehabilitated/etc.. The more water used; the more effluent going down the municipal sewage lines that has to be treated before it can be released to nature. Thus the commercials and admonishments to briefly turn on water for brushing teeth, shaving, showering, etc... and th need for low volume flush toilets; and the need to have 72 different water selections on the clothes washer and dish washer (yes a bit of exaggeration there to make my point).

[Rcmaveric]

Whether patterns always change. What was once an everglade becomes a desert and deserts become forrest. Changing the landscape is temporary. Adapt, migrate or perrish.

California has more problems than water. Bet if the did fire breaks and controll burns their fires wouldnt be nearly as big of a problem. Once the plains burn, the new grass will be good forage. Fires are apart of nature.

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[Handloader109]

climate across the world is ever changing. constantly, continually, every second of every day. The idiots who really think we can change the climate are delusional. Man CAN alter the ground beneath his feet which WILL LOCALLY alter that ground, but really won't change the actual climate. CA can't make it rain, nor snow more. Ain't happening.

Man is but a flea on the back of an elephant.

Water has forever been valuable. we just don't think about it until it is in short supply. US overall is rich with water, even in dry areas.

[country gent]

Not mentioned is all The ground now under concrete and asphalt. Cites with few green areas parking lots roads buildings all increase run off and lower what gets back to the water table. At one time all this area allowed rain to soak in, be "filtered" and return to the water tables. It now runs to sewers and then to rivers and oceans.

[gwpercle]

That's from unchecked inflation not drought

Right .... what breaks my heart is ...we got at least another 3 1/2 years of inflation to look forward to .

But don't worry Uncle Joe is going to fix everything ...He said so !

[GregLaROCHE]

The US has been looking at a potential water crisis for years, but the government has never wanted to admit it, let alone do something about it.

[Ural Driver]

We recently came out of a 5 year drought. About 2 years in, when the lake levels were showing the first real impact, I began asking why the Cities, Counties and State weren't using that opportunity to dredge them. How low were they? One reporter went to one of the larger marinas. He stood below the boat ramp, pointed across the dry expanse of lakebed and said "the nearest water to me is two miles in that direction". My observation was that simply removing all the accumulated sediment would serve to "freshen" these lakes by returning them to (at least) their original capacity. Actually deepening them (my choice) would add even more capacity thus addressing some of the longer term water issues.
Well, that never happened. Now, I understand I may have missed something, but I have zero information on them having done anything other that take the opportunity to rebuild some of the (then exposed) boat ramps. So, yet again, we have folks questioning our ability to supply water to this ever expanding population..........:-?

[dannyd]

I think desalinization is expensive but CA and FL are going to have to start looking at it. Where I am at every winter is now a drought. The fresh water canals get so low they are unusable. We are seeing saltwater intrusion in to some of the aquifers, yet they won't stop building like crazy and binging more people in to the area.


We have a program to ask every other person from up North to go back there and help save Florida. It’s for the children. ;)

[GregLaROCHE]

With all the talk about infrastructure, isn’t a nation’s water supply the most basic part of its infrastructure?

[Rcmaveric]

A lot of new parking lots on base are using the grean method. Its like criss cross brick patch work. Lets water through and grass grow. Kind of cool if you ask me. Saw a thing a last year. It was permiable grey street. Last just as long as asphalt, allows water to drain through and the color reduces heat convection.

Nothing is ever a problem until it is. By the time it is a problem it is to late.

They have been preaching water and power conservation in Florida since i was in third grade..... a really long time ago. EU countries turn sea water into drinking water just like our Naval ships. If a carrier can produce enough fresh water for 12k people, a city can do it.

On a side note about California... they had plenty. But the messed it all up with water rights and rerouting their rivers. The Kings River (the main central valley river) has been rerouted a couple times. It doesnt help they are pumping more out of their aquifer than can rain can replenish. Their earth quakes and sink holes are on the rise. They get a decent amount of rain during the El Nino year. So snow and El Nino year is water refills their resivors. They were also importing water from Nevada I beleive. But due to that dam indangered guppy that was an invasive species they stopped importing water and thats what started them down this path. They were all ready fighting a loosing battle, they are a desert! They are going to be a dust bowel. Their only real option is to start converting saltwater into freshw ater for the cities. Then spray their grey and brown water on feilds to remplentish the aquifers. Let the farmers use aquifers.

Florida has feilds randomly. They spray treated sewage onto the feilds. Nature does the rest. By the time it hits the aquifer its clean drinking water. It really help our sink hole issue.

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[Rcmaveric]

I also believe aquaponic farming is the way of the future. Its way more sustainable than intensive farming. Uses a fraction of the water of traditional farming. All i do is feed my fish. During the height of summer i am topping up with about 20 to 30 gallons of water every two weeks, a third less than a raised grow bed of equal grow bed size (40 square feet). Only nutrients i add is potash (for PH) and iron biweekly (plants nutrients) and monthly I toss in a little sea weed extract for macro nutrients. During the winter I top off monthly with sbout 20 ish gallons. If i increases my growbeds i wouldnt use much more water sonit scales really well. Water loss is do to evaporation. So 80 or 120 square feet of growing would loose about the same amount of water. Plants grow 3 times faster and produce 2 to 5 times more produce. No spacing requirements either because there is no competition over nutrients or water. Just far enough apart so they can get light.

I grow produce all through the winter also.

Now i can fish Blue Gill on my back porch.

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[trebor44]

Field flooding for ag. production and some grazing is still popular in the west. Overhead spray irrigation depends on the crop and soil content. There is no easy or simple answer except there is a drought occurring. Drought is just part of the climatic change and while some like to put the blame on mankind, it was occurring long before and will be occurring long after. Mankind is but a pimple and it is being squeezed!

[Lloyd Smale]

We have a program to ask every other person from up North to go back there and help save Florida. It’s for the children. ;)

make you a deal. We will take one back for every one you sent us after the civil war ended. I live in a small town tourist area. In the summer id bet my house percentage wise we have as many southerners up here escaping the heat then you do northerner's down there in the winter escaping the cold. You tell your people to stay out of my town and to stop putting tent communes on our pristine beaches and ill do the same. Last year with covid youd think they would have stayed home but NOPE i think the word got out that numbers were real low here and it was the only safe place to vacation. Our tourist numbers tripled from the year before which was already a record year. My niece owns a resort and she said that people coming last year put in so many future reservations that she doesnt have an opening for the next 2 years and neither do any of the other resorts. Camp grounds. Good luck with that. There packed every day.

People find any 2 track road and pull there campers into the woods somewhere, even may sleeping in there cars. They cut the trees even on private land for firewood and leave there trash and campsites a total mess. Some even were buying tents because they couldnt get a room or cabin and pitching them in the woods and when they were dont just leaving them, sleeping bags and everything else. Three times last year i had to chase off motor homes that pulled off the road in MY DRIVEWAY to spend the night. The woods i hunt was littered with them. I picked up 4 trash bags full of soda and beer cans off the beach in two weeks last year. Sorry but im sure theres good people down your way but theres also some real trash! I will make you one rock solid deal. You stay in FL and ill stay in MI. Ive been there and never felt the need to return. Way to HOT way to HUMID and WAY TO MANY PEOPLE!! At least we have peaceful winters. The lightweights go running when the temps drop and the snow falls.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Sitting next to Lake Superior, these drought problems seem far away. Superior has enough water in it to cover South, Central and North America with two feet! The Lake does fluctuate, having been low enough recently to antagonize shipping tonnage. We got an inch and a quarter of rain Sunday but Southern Minnesota has drought conditions. The Mississippi is at historic lows. But flooding has been more prevalent in the recent past in the Midwest than drought.

When the golf courses turn brown in Phoenix and Southern California they will have a problem.

[Gator 45/70]

18.20 inches, Is what we had just in May 2021, Yall welcome to come get some and bring it home.
We have plenty !

[JoeJames]

18.20 inches, Is what we had just in May 2021, Yall welcome to come get some and bring it home.
We have plenty !And, whatever y'all get in rain we ultimately get up here in the Arkansas. As far as folks moving North or South depending on the time of year; it don't matter to us as long as they keep on a'going through Arkansas.

[Lloyd Smale]

ya Joe i sometimes think the farm countrys right in the middle of the country are where to live. NO TOURISTS to bother the piece and quiet. good hunting and fishing and for the most part conservative.

[JoeJames]

ya Joe i sometimes think the farm countrys right in the middle of the country are where to live. NO TOURISTS to bother the piece and quiet. good hunting and fishing and for the most part conservative.Yep, we just sit on the porch and watch 'em going back and forth.

[MT Gianni]

The parish sells us rain drums ready to go here,35 bucks each,These are used to catch rainwater for the gardens.
Must sux to live in a Commie state where catching rain water is forbidden.

It isn't that it's a commie State, it is that the water is already owned as soon as it falls from the sky. Blame whichever Judge you want, as too many have upheld it.

[Three44s]

There a lot of things you can do without for differing times including food, but cut off the water and you are in big trouble fast!

.......... and the left knows this!

Control baby!

But without gun confiscation, you end up with a revolution!

Three44s

[Hogtamer]

There be lots of tourists to Stuttgart Arkansas every fall and winter....

[Gator 45/70]

It isn't that it's a commie State, it is that the water is already owned as soon as it falls from the sky. Blame whichever Judge you want, as too many have upheld it.

That's just crazy, Guess a person never really owns anything thanks to .Gov

[sghart3578]

Yep, we just sit on the porch and watch 'em going back and forth.

That's funny right there.

[Rcmaveric]

It isn't that it's a commie State, it is that the water is already owned as soon as it falls from the sky. Blame whichever Judge you want, as too many have upheld it.More than one state has laws against collecting rain water. More than one state has mineral rights also. If you find a diamond or oil in your back yard keep it a secret just like collecting rain water and the number of guns you own.

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[beechbum444]

The real question is ....Why would it not be the new oil??? Everything has to have it. It can be controlled, bought, sold, rerouted and have its rights controlled. IT can be stored, shipped and everything in between and like everything else its a method of control....If gas gets to expensive, there are alternative means....If water prices go up....You, me and everybody in between are paying them..........

[jim147]

I've only had rural water for fifteen years so going back to the well wouldn't take much work.

[GregLaROCHE]

make you a deal. We will take one back for every one you sent us after the civil war ended. I live in a small town tourist area. In the summer id bet my house percentage wise we have as many southerners up here escaping the heat then you do northerner's down there in the winter escaping the cold. You tell your people to stay out of my town and to stop putting tent communes on our pristine beaches and ill do the same. Last year with covid youd think they would have stayed home but NOPE i think the word got out that numbers were real low here and it was the only safe place to vacation. Our tourist numbers tripled from the year before which was already a record year. My niece owns a resort and she said that people coming last year put in so many future reservations that she doesnt have an opening for the next 2 years and neither do any of the other resorts. Camp grounds. Good luck with that. There packed every day.

People find any 2 track road and pull there campers into the woods somewhere, even may sleeping in there cars. They cut the trees even on private land for firewood and leave there trash and campsites a total mess. Some even were buying tents because they couldnt get a room or cabin and pitching them in the woods and when they were dont just leaving them, sleeping bags and everything else. Three times last year i had to chase off motor homes that pulled off the road in MY DRIVEWAY to spend the night. The woods i hunt was littered with them. I picked up 4 trash bags full of soda and beer cans off the beach in two weeks last year. Sorry but im sure theres good people down your way but theres also some real trash! I will make you one rock solid deal. You stay in FL and ill stay in MI. Ive been there and never felt the need to return. Way to HOT way to HUMID and WAY TO MANY PEOPLE!! At least we have peaceful winters. The lightweights go running when the temps drop and the snow falls.

You got it right, “To. Many people”. I don’t see it ending well, but I do see there are too many people on this earth and the problem is only getting worse.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

You got it right, “To. Many people”. I don’t see it ending well, but I do see there are too many people on this earth and the problem is only getting worse.

I believe they are currently working overtime on that issue. Ugly business......

[dannyd]

make you a deal. We will take one back for every one you sent us after the civil war ended. I live in a small town tourist area. In the summer id bet my house percentage wise we have as many southerners up here escaping the heat then you do northerner's down there in the winter escaping the cold. You tell your people to stay out of my town and to stop putting tent communes on our pristine beaches and ill do the same. Last year with covid youd think they would have stayed home but NOPE i think the word got out that numbers were real low here and it was the only safe place to vacation. Our tourist numbers tripled from the year before which was already a record year. My niece owns a resort and she said that people coming last year put in so many future reservations that she doesnt have an opening for the next 2 years and neither do any of the other resorts. Camp grounds. Good luck with that. There packed every day.

People find any 2 track road and pull there campers into the woods somewhere, even may sleeping in there cars. They cut the trees even on private land for firewood and leave there trash and campsites a total mess. Some even were buying tents because they couldnt get a room or cabin and pitching them in the woods and when they were dont just leaving them, sleeping bags and everything else. Three times last year i had to chase off motor homes that pulled off the road in MY DRIVEWAY to spend the night. The woods i hunt was littered with them. I picked up 4 trash bags full of soda and beer cans off the beach in two weeks last year. Sorry but im sure theres good people down your way but theres also some real trash! I will make you one rock solid deal. You stay in FL and ill stay in MI. Ive been there and never felt the need to return. Way to HOT way to HUMID and WAY TO MANY PEOPLE!! At least we have peaceful winters. The lightweights go running when the temps drop and the snow falls.

You will never see me up there, but are those true Southerners or just people from up North going back up North. ;)

[dannyd]

You got it right, “To. Many people”. I don’t see it ending well, but I do see there are too many people on this earth and the problem is only getting worse.



There is a fix coming for that; history will call it the Third World War.

[Gator 45/70]

40.41 inches of rain so far this year.

[David2011]

I have mixed opinions about water rights. First off having to pay for bottled water that’s been drawn from aquifers at almost no cost is a sin. The net profit generated from bottled water should be limited to no more than 15% over total cost.

That is an excellent example of Fascism in its pure form; government telling private business how it can operate. No, thank you!

Around the turn of the century I lived in Bakersfield, CA. My water bill was $20/month regardless of the quantity used. Bakersfield is in a desert.

More recently I lived in southeast New Mexico where water is very scarce. There are thousands of acres of farm land growing corn, cotton, alfalfa, sorghum, peppers and pecans. There’s more farm land that’s irrigated to graze cattle. The irrigation is done with pivot irrigation systems that are 1/8 mile long and pivot from one end to water most of a quarter section each, consuming 300 or 400 gallons of water per minute depending on how they’re jetted. That water is all from the Ogalala aquifer that is replenished in South Dakota. A single pivot irrigation system can require as many as seven water wells to supply it.

A friend was buying a house that he had been renting in the middle of farm land just across the state line into Texas. The day before closing the pivot irrigation drew the water table below the depth of his well. The house was no longer habitable.

It is ludicrous to allow that kind of water consumption in a desert that has no surface water. The pecan orchards were made possible by University of New Mexico at Las Cruces research to develop pecan trees that would grow in NM. Each mature tree needs 200 gallons of water per day.

Water consumption on that scale is not sustainable.

[cwtebay]

That is an excellent example of Fascism in its pure form; government telling private business how it can operate. No, thank you!

Around the turn of the century I lived in Bakersfield, CA. My water bill was $20/month regardless of the quantity used. Bakersfield is in a desert.

More recently I lived in southeast New Mexico where water is very scarce. There are thousands of acres of farm land growing corn, cotton, alfalfa, sorghum, peppers and pecans. There’s more farm land that’s irrigated to graze cattle. The irrigation is done with pivot irrigation systems that are 1/8 mile long and pivot from one end to water most of a quarter section each, consuming 300 or 400 gallons of water per minute depending on how they’re jetted. That water is all from the Ogalala aquifer that is replenished in South Dakota. A single pivot irrigation system can require as many as seven water wells to supply it.

A friend was buying a house that he had been renting in the middle of farm land just across the state line into Texas. The day before closing the pivot irrigation drew the water table below the depth of his well. The house was no longer habitable.

It is ludicrous to allow that kind of water consumption in a desert that has no surface water. The pecan orchards were made possible by University of New Mexico at Las Cruces research to develop pecan trees that would grow in NM. Each mature tree needs 200 gallons of water per day.

Water consumption on that scale is not sustainable.While I agree with most of what you are saying - the Ogallala aquifer statement is likely not 100% fact. That particular aquifer is VERY highly regulated - to the point that you are TOLD to shut off your irrigation if levels become low or you use more than your allocation. If you are non compliant - your well is closed - by pouring concrete into the well head.
I also agree that I question the reasoning behind growing such things as tree nuts in a desert!!!!

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[Cowhide]

Some time ago California leased or sold a lot of water rites to the Almond growers, because the money was just to good. Now the state is and has been having water problems but the Almond growers still have the steady supply of water per the contract. It was a 99 year deal and all of us will be dead before that contract expires. Short sighted politicians is and has been the seed of a lot of problems here in the USA and else where.

[Ural Driver]

.................... Short sighted politicians is and has been the seed of a lot of problems here in the USA and else where.


Ya think ?

[WRideout]

Is it to costly to use ocean water like they do on carriers ? I would think by now there must be means to convert it. I know they spent millions if not billions to remove oil and sludge from the ocean.

Just thinking out loud, Mike

When I lived in Santa Barbara County, CA, it was not so much a water availability problem as a distribution problem. SoCal gets a large amount of water from the Colorado River, but there are rules about who can get it, and how it can be used. So the citizens of Santa Barbara (which has a high proportion of millionaires) decided that they would just build their own gas-fired seawater desalination plant. It's about the most expensive water you can get, but the grass never has to turn brown.

Wayne

[David2011]

While I agree with most of what you are saying - the Ogallala aquifer statement is likely not 100% fact. That particular aquifer is VERY highly regulated - to the point that you are TOLD to shut off your irrigation if levels become low or you use more than your allocation. If you are non compliant - your well is closed - by pouring concrete into the well head.
I also agree that I question the reasoning behind growing such things as tree nuts in a desert!!!!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

I’m just going by personal experience and the fact that my well drew from the Ogalala. I don’t know what happened to the surrounding wells where my friends lived. Without water they couldn’t stay. They canceled the contract on the house and moved to another place on the New Mexico side of the state line.

[MT Gianni]

You got it right, “To. Many people”. I don’t see it ending well, but I do see there are too many people on this earth and the problem is only getting worse.

We had a great opportunity with Covid but they introduced social distancing.

[GregLaROCHE]

I watched a report not long ago, about how multi million dollar farming companies are coming to the southwest. They drill extremely deep wells, that are too expensive for local farmers to drill. The water table drops and the local farmers, who had been farming for generations, are forced to leave, because of the lack of water. Of course the big companies buy up their farms cheap!

[perotter]

Sitting next to Lake Superior, these drought problems seem far away. Superior has enough water in it to cover South, Central and North America with two feet! The Lake does fluctuate, having been low enough recently to antagonize shipping tonnage. We got an inch and a quarter of rain Sunday but Southern Minnesota has drought conditions. The Mississippi is at historic lows. But flooding has been more prevalent in the recent past in the Midwest than drought.

When the golf courses turn brown in Phoenix and Southern California they will have a problem.

I wouldn't call it a drought yet in southeast MN. I've been all over that part of the state over the last 2 weeks.

While I have seen a bit of stressed corn, the fields all around it have been in good shape. That says more about a farmers individual farming practices than anything. You know, they gambled that there will be plenty of rain and went short on the fertilizer. Or they bit off more than they could chew and got it in late. The earlier planted stuff had time to get a better root system, FWIW. The water levels of ponds and swamps I'm familiar with that sometimes dry up are still in good shape. As of last Saturday the Mississippi back waters looked normal.

Some places got as much as 3" last Friday and more on Sunday. But it's patchy like it always is during a dry spell and some more rain would be welcome. I'm old, but still willing to ride motorcycle in the rain.

[Bmi48219]

That is an excellent example of Fascism in its pure form; government telling private business how it can operate. No, thank you!
Water consumption on that scale is not sustainable.

You’ve obviously unaware the bottled water producers suck billions of gallons daily out of aquifers that the surrounding communities depend on for drinking, bathing, irrigation and life in general. When the municipal wells dry up the municipality does the same. The negative effects of the bottled water industry on rural life are well documented in published articles, books and film series.
I don’t think ‘fascism’ is the correct term:
“fascism [ˈfaSHˌizəm] NOUN : an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.”
Fresh water is a finite resource and the most critical of resources to life on this planet. It isn’t fascism when the government controls the export of uranium 235. Allowing private industry to exhaust critical natural resources for profit gives private industry control of the population and the government.

[beechbum444]

sitting here in miami....The everglades are full of water and all this water/ dam/ waterlochs etc equipment....I get emails and text messages from my apartment complex on how theres a water shortage and how we should conserve it...............SCAMMMM

[gbrown]

We live in one of those places that could send water to other areas. Annual rainfall is around 50 inches. Sometimes more, sometimes less. In Harvey, 2017, a location near me registered over 60 inches of rain. We never flooded, local drainage district has done an excellent amazing job. SIL and daughter lost their house and everything in that. Wish we could figure out how to send our excess to those that need it.