Building a Barrel for a H&R SB2 frame

[SwedeNelson]

I offer the following information for no other reason than to show others how I have gone about the problem of obtaining barrels for the SB2 frame that are not offered by H&R.

Most of the work to this date has been on straight wall black powder cartridges for the Buffalo Classic. This covers .32-40, .38-55, .40-65, .45-70 and .50-70.
H&R Offers a .38-55 and .45-70 barrel but the rifling is very shallow and in my opinion
just OK for cast bullets.

The biggest cost is also the part that needs to have the most attention – The Barrel Blank. The first barrel that I built was on a Douglas (304 776-1341) 4140 .40 cal. 1-16 twist straight blank. This has proved to be a very accurate barrel. To date the only work I have done with it has been out to 200 yards. The biggest problem with using a straight blank is contouring it to what you need. I had a local custom barrel maker (Bull Barry Barrels) turn and chamber it for me. Part of this turned out to be a cost that I didn’t need if I would have spent more time to think things through.
The second barrel was a Badger Barrel (262 857-6950) .38 call Octagon. I faxed Ernie a drawing of what I wanted and he furnished it in a very timely manner. The cost was less than a straight blank and having to turn it to what I wanted. This barrel has one of the smoothest bores I have seen. Again only shot it out to 200 yards but have got some very good groups. My suggestion would be to purchase a Barrel that is contoured from the maker. For ease of machining I have the barrel short chambered, cut to length and crowned before any more work is done.

The next big problem is the lug that welds to the barrel. I produced a drawing to have this part machined, see attached drawing 000-001. The most economical way to have this part made was to go to a shop that works with CNC equipment. Again I went to a local shop, Advanced Manufacturing Technologies (801 973-9462) to furnish me this part. The cost for one part was just about as much as ten so I ordered ten. When I made the drawing I tried to give my self enough room to hand fit the locking lug. So there is a small amount of leeway in this lug. It has worked out very well for me.

The next problem is to locate the lug on the barrel, to do this I built a fixture. See attached drawing 000-002. To set this fixture I use the stock barrel from the action
that I’m building for. And again there is a small amount of leeway in the lug for hand fitting. After the fixture and lug are in place I use a small C-clamp to hold every thing in place.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Dc111.jpg
Fixture, Lug and Barrel clamped together for welding.

Before clamping the lug to the barrel there is a small amount of pre-fit-up that can be done. I make sure the lug will fit snug in the action on its own. This may take a little polishing to accomplish but just go slow.

The next step will be to weld the lug to the barrel. I had the lug machined from 4130 material and have had real good results welding it to 4140 barrels. The barrel, lug, fixture and C-clamps are all pre-heated to 250 to 300 deg. I use a modified rod oven for this.
The lug is TIG welded to the barrel using 4130 filler wire. I tack weld the side of the lug that you can get to first then remove the fixture, re-clamp and weld the other side. After welding remove the C-clamp and wrapped in a heat blanket to control how it cools and returned to the oven. The oven is then turned down to start cooling. This should take about 8 to 12 hours.

Next is fitting the barrel/lug assembly to the action. This is done with standard gunsmith procedures. The locking lug is over size so it can be hand fit to the action. This is one of those “take a little off” and try type things.

Next is the fore end lug. This is spot welded on the stock barrel. I opted to use a dove tail to retain the lug. See attached drawing 000-003. I had a local machinist turn out ten of these to go with the ten lugs. This can be cut and installed at the same time the sights are installed.

Next the barrel will need to be finish chambered and checked for head space.
Again this is just standard gunsmith procedures. Ejector parts are available from Brownell (800 741-0015) or Gunparts (845 679-2417). Install the ejector parts and check for final fit to action.

All that is left to do is remove the ejector part, polish and blue the finished barrel.

This has been a very educational project for me and I have enjoyed the outcome.
I have come to the conclusion that it is no harder to build a barrel for a H&R than it is for a TC Contender and I’m working on a way to make a adjustable lock for the SB2 frame.

In closing I would like to say that every thing that I have done can be done by any one else. There is no magic to making a barrel like this and I hope this information helps some one else have as much enjoyment as I have had.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/th_hrlug.jpg (http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/?action=view&current=hrlug.jpg)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/th_hrwf.jpg (http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/?action=view&current=hrwf.jpg)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/th_hrblug.jpg (http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/?action=view&current=hrblug.jpg)
Swede-Nelson

[leftiye]

Nice! What, if anything, do you do to keep scale from forming during the welding? I've been told that silver solder flux might work, and have also thought of using Keep-Bryte. Of course, chambering after welding could possibly solve this problem by itself. How do you provide for the extractor/ejector? This welding issue has been what has stopped me from making custom barrels for H&R handis, and contenders etc. (so far).

[deltaenterprizes]

Bone black and whale oil or hohoba oil mixed to form a paste.

[SwedeNelson]

Preheat and TIG weld.
Learned how from P.O. Ackley's welder 20 years ago.

Made the lug out of 4130 and use 4130 welding rod.
The only heat treat is the slow cool down after welding to
keep the weld from getting brittle.

Chamber after welding - Keeps the chamber round.
Most of the Contender barrel builders do it the same way.

Swede Nelson

[badgeredd]

Swede,

Great post!!!!!!

Edd

[dk17hmr]

Do you just order ejector parts than? How about building me a 25-35:lol:

[SwedeNelson]

dk17hmr

Yes GunParts has all the ejector part and pins.

You would be better off finding local talent and
do what I did. I'd like one in 25/35 also.

Swede Nelson

[hpdrifter]

Hey Swede, didn't you used to sell the lug; or at least offer to, on the old Buffalo Classic site?

Got any left over that you might wanna sell/get rid of?

[jhrosier]

Swede,
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing.

Jack

[leftiye]

Ejector parts can also be bought directly from H&R, or at least could be before remington bought them.

[John Taylor]

Nice post. About 25 years ago I made up about 2 dozen muzzle loaders from H&R shotguns. Took the lugs off the shotgun barrel and silver soldered them to the new barrel. Breach plug was set up for the 209 primer and the extractor was extended out so it would eject the spent primer. This was before all the inlines hit the market and I was going strong until the hunting laws in Idaho were changed.
Working on one now that is 32 ACP. Just put a liner in the 410 barrel, now to make the extractor work.
I always make my own lugs if needed.

[SwedeNelson]

hpdrifter

That be me. (1871BCSS#28)
If you have a need send me a PM and we can see.

Swede Nelson

[Jetwrench]

SweedeNelson,

Very good post, thanks for shairing:drinks:. Jetwrench

[jeepmann1]

Are there any Barrel lugs available?

[725]

You talented guys make me crazy!!! Wonderful work. H&R's are my favorite fun guns and my primary hunters. Have been dreaming about a .32 S+W as a Rook Rifle. Keep up the good and interesting work.

[justashooter]

good welding technique in your description. approved. (AWS CWI CWE)

[nanuk]

this would work to fit a shotgun barrel to a SB2 frame, like a trackerII

[JIMinPHX]

The cost for one part was just about as much as ten so I ordered ten.

What are you planning to do with the left overs?

[nanuk]

Jim, my thoughts exactly....

[Dark Helmet]

Another Group Buy? :groner:

[Hamish]

Bump, just to be a stinker,,,,,,,,

[rking22]

Group Buy ??????

[dragonrider]

Very good Swede, I have made a couple barrels for my TCR-87 and 90% of the work is in the monoblock.. and the worst part is the channel for the extractor. I use an E-head on my Bridgeport to do it but even so it is not fun. I am going to change that, also going to change the way the barrel installs, instead of a tight fitting reamed hole and cross pins I am going to thread the next one and see how that works, I have high hope for that.

[Clark]

138215I got an H&R 16 ga shotgun lower for next to nothing at a gunshow and built my 50CB wildcat on top with a barrel from Green Mountain. It can kill a coon with a body shot that sounds like a BB gun.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Nice! What, if anything, do you do to keep scale from forming during the welding? I've been told that silver solder flux might work, and have also thought of using Keep-Bryte. Of course, chambering after welding could possibly solve this problem by itself. How do you provide for the extractor/ejector? This welding issue has been what has stopped me from making custom barrels for H&R handis, and contenders etc. (so far).

I believe that flux, which is mostly borax, would prevent an arc from being struck.

I wouldn't want to seem to criticize Swede's splendid work, but for those limited in welding, like me, there could be a lot to be said for silver soldering, provided that the surfaces can be shaped to a close match. Sheet or paste silver solder would penetrate all the way across the joint.
138230

This drawing, from WW Greener's book, shows how the lumps were dovetailed in and brazed in double shotguns, and the most powerful of big game rifles, before chopper lumps, half of the lump integral with each of the barrels, came in. I'm a long way from most of my books, but Sir Gerald Burrard says that a form of silver solder was introduced during the Second World War, and proved as strong with less danger of overheating the steel. The dovetail joint doesn't count for very much, since the forces on a shotgun have only a minimal tendency to make the barrels rotate about the pin. Many a person has held a shotgun shut by hand alone while firing, although I wouldn't chance happening on one that is different. The forces that really count are longitudinal ones.

[Nobade]

Nice writeup there Swede, you do good work! Thanks for doing the hard work and making the drawings. I suspect there is going to arise a small industry to make barrels for these rifles in the future, now that the factory isn't making them any more and there are so many of them out there in the hands of enthusiasts.

-Nobade

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Why stop there? I think the barrel is the difficult bit.

[Bohica793]

Hey Swede! Now that H&R is closed down, when will you start offering your replacement barrels to the general public? Or at least to us?

[archangel2003]

I have spent a week searching the net for barrel lugs and this is the closest I have come.
So, a year and a half later, does anyone know if there are there any lugs to be found?

[NoAngel]

This will become very important in future years as the supply of 'other' barrels dry up. Currently, shotgun barrels and unwanted rifle barrels get stubbed which works very well, but one day, they will run out. It's already pretty difficult to find H&R's compared to yesteryear. Remember when you couldn't swing a dead cat in a gun show what you didn't knock over a dozen H&R's? Not any more.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is a very good recent thread on attaching underlugs, although it refers primarily to Thompson Center barrels. I think it confirms what I believe, that you would have to be a very good welder indeed, with just the right facilities, to make welding a better choice than silver soldering.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?320518-welding-barrel

There isn't as much information on this one, but it mentions an important difference in the metallurgy of H&R receivers made for rifles and shotguns:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?320973-H-amp-R-Handi-Home-Made-Accessory-Barrel-Program

[Tackleberry41]

Yea the H&R have already seemed to dry up. The little gun shop near me always had several in the rack, now they might have one. Will get expensive buying one just for the barrel. Before H&R closed I got a barrel off ebay for not to much. Now its cheaper to buy a whole rifle than a barrel. Even if someone came up with just a threaded stub it would be really nice.

[leftiye]

You're right. At Ed's T/Cs, there are plenty of barrels for t/c Contenders and Encores in calibers not generally available. AND they don't cost much if any more than Handi Rifle barrels are going for. Some greedy sellers put Handi Rifle barrels into the 400 dollars and up range. I hate to be the one to say it, but H&R went out of buziness because of their sloppy production controls.

[Hamish]

leftiye makes a good point. I've got somewhere around a dozen. Playing "Let's see what barrel fits what frame" and having to hand fit leave a bad taste. Never had these kind of problems with the Contenders.

[leftiye]

I've got about 16 Handi Rifle barrels, and quite a few receivers, so I'm not against them at all. But the calibers are boringly limited, and they are getting pricey.