Powder for a K31 load

[jballs918]

ok guys here is the dish. I got four different CB to load up for my K31. I have no manuals of any kind. So I'm coming to you all to see what you guys can remend. I'm looking ot try to have the same powder used for all the loads. That will save me a ton of money that way. OK you ask what bullets do i have well here the list for you.

C309-113 Diameter between .312 to .314 (don't think these have been sized)
311291 Diameter is .310
311284 Diameter is .309
C309-291 Diameter is .307

I'm not sure on the weights of these my scale has not come in yet. So if you all could see what you can come yup with that would be great. Thanks all as the madness martches on

[Maven]

Two things: (1) You need to buy and read a few reloading manuals. If there's no loading data for the 7.5 x55mm, which is likely, you can extrapolate from .308Win. (7.62 x 51mm) starting loads. (2) Search the archives under "K-31," K-31 Swiss," "K-31 Loads" or something similar. I think you'll find what you're looking for there.

[swheeler]

jballs; alliant 2400, accurate xmp 5744, imr sr 4759 would all be fine choices, take your pick and choose one. The accurate xmp 5744 has proven to be the most accurate for my rifle, bullet combination, but not by much. The case capacity is real close to that of the 30-06(approx 3-4 grs less for the 7.5) I would slug the barrel, the bullets you have sized to .307" would be TOO small in my K31, groove dia is .308+. Have fun and be safe, take Maven's advice and get a reloading manual and read it.
Scooter

[swheeler]

JBalls; add WC846 plus dacron to the list of powders
30.0 grs+dacron- 170 Lee FN=1970 fps
2 clips full at 50yds(12 rds)- 1.75"
clean and accurate
sorry for the dark pic

[versifier]

jballs,
Like Maven said, YOU NEED TO BUY AND READ AT LEAST TWO MANUALS. Sierra has K31 data, as does Modern Reloading by Richard Lee, and a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook wouldn't hurt, either. Besides load data, they have lots of very important info on the loading process, different techniques, troubleshooting. None of it is difficult, but there is a lot to learn and you can't expect to be absorbing it through electronic osmosis. It just doesn't work that way.
We are talking about a process that involves producing a great evolution of gas at extremely high pressures in a very small confined space with one end open. Exceed the limit by making any one of several oversights and you can turn your rifle into shrapnel, a grenade going off right in front of your face. I guess you are free to gamble with your own life, but if you are shooting at a range with others on the firing line when it happens, you can injure or kill other people, too. The more we learn about it the clearer it becomes how little we know. In the building trades, we had a way of describing a certain kind of worker: "He knows just enough to be dangerous." Enough to be confident, not enough to be safe. I sincerely hope that does not describe you, but when you said "I have no manuals of any kind," that really set off the alarm. You've been visiting here long enough to know how important they are. If you are trying to save money, start with Lee tools and upgrade down the line, but don't skimp on the manuals, they're the cheapest life insurance you can buy for yourself and your shooting buddies. Buy them FIRST. Then READ them. Rant concluded.

[jballs918]

versifier,

i would first off like to say i dont own a reloading manual as of yet. but i have read the ABCs of relaoding, the latest speer manual, the latest lee manual, and also one more i cant recall. i have studied reloading for over a year and i have made to date a wooping 0 reloads. i'm 29 years old and i have learned one very importent lesson in life a long time ago and that is learn from other peoples mistakes. so i study, i read, i watch, i review, i learn a process. i do it until it becames second nature and then i may even improve the process. i ask alot of questions on the internet becuase alot of the older gentleman have been this process way before i was born and i dig this respect what everyone of you say. i have learned a ton from the internet, the manuals i have read, the videos i have watched, and the trail and error of working under a man who has casted and reloarded for 15 years now. yes i am trying to save money, that is why im trying to find manual that will have the loads, and also hte information that i need. i ask becuase i know that alot of different people have done it a different way and i look to see what would apply the best for me. so please one should not worry about what im learning to learn, this is something that im not going half cocked off on. im just trying to get all my ducks in a row and get all my info together so that i can do this to the best of my knowledge. SAFETY is rule number 1, i way never doubt that, nor should anyone else. so please guys bare with me and remember that the info im looking for is going to the overall process of me learning.

thanks
jason

[swheeler]

jballs; try looking at GI Brass- Hi-Tech Ammunition- Pat's Reloading for wholesale reloading supplies and surplus powders. Your old friend can help you get started with a hobbie that will bring you a lifetime of enjoyment-enjoy!
Scooter

[versifier]

jballs,
Thank you, I am much relieved. Excellent, in fact. Sorry for the rant, but my eyes sure bugged out when I read about the lack of manuals. We all hear (and see) horror stories of idiots that fill up their cases because "there was still plenty of room in there", or seat revolver and pistol loads until they bottom out on top of the charge so they'd "take up less room". It's a rare man that can learn by others' mistakes, and we loaders have to be especially careful because some of the mistakes we can make are the of kind where one is one too many.
BTW, that's a good reading list, and someone who can show you the process hands-on is a precious resource. The Lyman CB Handbook will have a lot of needed info and loads, and the Lee, as you have seen, has cast data for .30-30, .308, and .30-06. Those can be good starting points, as we use reduced charges and lower pressures to launch boolits, the case capacities are similar, and the most accurate loads are almost always moderate ones. Also, cast boolits will always yield lower pressures than jacketed bullets of equal weight due to factors like less bore friction from the softer metal, so that's like a built-in safety factor. As you've discovered, there isn't a lot of published data for cast rifle loads, the reason being that most companies that publish them make jacketed bullets and don't appear to give a rat's ass for anyone they can't make money off of (read that: us).
As Scooter suggested, do slug your bore next. It will save you A LOT of time (hours!) scrubbing lead fouling out of the rifle by eliminating ahead of time those boolits that are too small, and also you will not waste the effort of loading them. I suspect, as he does, that the .307's are way too small and likely should be melted down and recast into something of greater diameter, but only slugging will tell you that. Are the gas checks already seated? What kind of sizer setup do you have?

[jballs918]

i had them sent to me from other cb guys on the board and they are all gaschecked already. i have searched the internet and saw alot of guys have said the k31 is 307. now this does not mean mine is so i will have the bore checked. i planned on that next. so it looks like i need to go about getting the lyman.

[Buckshot]

................Off topic here but I can understand why Versifier or someone else may have posted a reply as he did about getting a couple reloading manuals. Sometime back on the old Tuco's BB, on the Swede rifle forum a young man (early teens IIRC) releated his and his dad's first reloading experience.

Simply put, somehow or the other the only powder they had was Bullseye, and their total combined wisdom distilled down to the fact that they put enough into the cartridge case SO THAT IT LOOKED ABOUT RIGHT. Now for me if I knew nothing at all about it, I'm wondering what to me would look like it was "About Right'? 8)

I doubt they had any experience with Bullseye (and it just HAD to have been Bullseye too, hadn't it!) or they'd have known how much energy is contained in it. Probably someone mentioned reloading and some good natured person gave it to them?

So he said they seated a slug and then fired it off.

His first sentance to begin his entire post said, "No on was badly hurt but............." The balance of his post went on to relate all that he and his dad did and their thoughts etc.

"Not badly hurt" ended up his getting a face full of powdergas and powder, along with his dad getting an armload of wood splinters and brass particles. Luckily the M96 Swede action didn't grenade.

So sometimes someone with lots of experience having read of, seen, or even experienced such things themselves can be quick to mention safety items to be aware of. Personally I have blown up a low numbered Springfield Sporter through inattentive reloading habits that I thought was safe. The action DID grenade and no one was hurt. All I got was a minor cut at the scalp line.

So when someone doesn't know that:

"so please one should not worry about what im learning to learn, this is something that im not going half cocked off on."

Remember they don't know that, and they just want to make double sure we don't have a casualty amongst the brotherhood :-)

Safety bears repeating, and experience can breed casualness.

................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

No catastrophic failures for me, but a recent "opposite effect" reinforced my respect for all that goes on when the primer flame hits the powder--or, as in this case, DOESN'T.

I detailed on another thread how damn difficult it was to drive out the j-word bullet that JUST THE PRIMER lodged about 3" up the barrel of a 25-20 WCF rifle of mine. It took considerable force and light chemical/thermal prompting to get it out. The 25-20 is pretty much a pissant caliber, too. Still, there are some tremendous forces at work in this hobby of ours, and they deserve respect and vigilance to prevent mishaps.

[versifier]

The boys have the right of it, there are too few of us, and we don't need to lose any of the brotherhood through preventable mistakes. As was discussed on the thread about catastrophic failures, a friend of my had a revolver blow up in his hands (he was unhurt, just VERY surprised). I also watched an old Mauser in .300H&H fail a proof test and turn to shrapnel. (It was tied securely to a tree and set off by a 25ft cord from behind a bigger tree. The 'smith didn't think it was safe to shoot, but the customer "knew better" and asked him to proof it. No CRACK, just a BOOM, and pieces of the action were sticking out of the bark of all the trees around it - the bolt was launched rearward and sunk in up to the handle in an oak tree fifteen feet away. Good thing no one's face was in the way, I don't think a human skull would have slowed it down at all.) I hope I never hear or read about another shooter getting hurt or killed from carelessness, but human nature being what it is, I doubt I'll get my wish. Still, I will continue to do whatever I can to emphasize and insist on safety whenever it seems called for.

You got the point about bore/groove size. It doesn't mean that yours is .307, but it doesn't mean it isn't. Time to find out. Oil up the barrel really well, pop the gas check off one of the .314 soupcans, and use that to slug the bore with. If in doubt that it's of large enough diameter, hit it a moderate blow with a hammer to fatten it up a bit, but I doubt it will be necessary with a tight K31 bore. Don't forget to put a layer or two of masking tape every couple inches along the drive rod to keep it from contacting the bore. For a rifle, some like to start at the muzzle and go three or four inches, then drive it back out from the breech. Others like to start at the breech and go five or six inches, beyond any possible throat erosion, then drive it back out from the muzzle. I would rather not mess with the muzzle at all and I drive it all the way through from the breech. It doesn't do any harm to put it all the way through, and in a well used milsurp, I really don't think you need be overly concerned about finding any tight spots. (Revolvers are something else again and can have tight spots and cylander throats and forcing cones to worry about, but you don't need to deal with that now, merely file it in the back of your mind for later research. When you become an unrepentent boolit addict, you'll remember it.)

[IMR]

Coupla years back, I loaded up a box or two of .303s using WC860. Packed it up and went to bed. Got up the next morning, fixed my coffee and sat down at the computer to check the weather. In my early morning fog, something on the reloading bench didn't look right. Then I got the scare of a lifetime. There on the bench was the cannister I had loaded from the night before. The label on it was clearly marked in MY handwriting "WC820". Scared me so bad, I didn't even pull them down. I BURIED them 3 shovel blades deep.
Thank you, Lord, for protecting me.

[Ricochet]

Something I'm VERY careful of: I have both WC860 and WC680.

[IMR]

Ricochet,
I don't imagine it would be much fun getting THOSE two mixed up, 'specially if you use 860 data for 680.

[Ricochet]

Exactly. I use a very tightly compressed load of WC860 under 200 grain bullets in .300 Weatherby. I'm thinking that just might be unhealthy with WC680.