Swage 240-gr .44 Mag Jacketed Bullets from .40 S&W Brass Using 7x57mm Mauser Die

[Liberty1776]

I may have posted this before, but this process works, and combines several skills you already have to produce jacketed 240-grain .44 Remington Mag bullets from pure lead 40 caliber slugs and .40 S&W spent brass.

Watch Mannyca's video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2Ad3k3kgg for exact procedure.

I've done this and it works. My old Rock Chucker handled the stress just fine.

Here's a summary board I made showing the process:

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Manny has moved his channel to https://www.bitchute.com/channel/eNHKe2S3e6YZ/

Just be very sure to anneal the .40 S&W brass so it's really soft.

[wilecoyote]

Liberty1776, thank you about the input: very tempting trick!
I could try to feed my S&W 29s and maybe my .444 lever.
I have several 8Maus. dies, a RCBS Ammomaster, .429 and .430 Lee Bullet Sizing dies at hand.
at my local range I can scrounge some .40 spent case.
at the end, it seems I should only fork some cash to order a Lee .40S&W mold_

I've never done this, never swaged, therefore forgive my questions as comin'from a plain newbie:
can I use Imperial Sizing Wax as lube in this job ?
can I use swaged soft lead .41 bullets, (intended for use in 57 S&W, offered free by a buddy) after removing the lube, instead of .40 cal. slugs ?
can 10Auto cases be used to be shortened instead of .40 S&W ?
thanks for any answer...

[Liberty1776]

Liberty1776, thank you about the input: very tempting trick:
I could try to feed my S&W 29 and maybe my .444 lever.
I have several 8Maus. dies, a RCBS Ammomaster, .429 and .430 Lee Bullet Sizing dies at hand.
at my local range I can scrounge some spent case.
at the end, it seems I should only fork some cash to order a Lee .40S&W mold_

I've never done this, therefore forgive my questions as comin'from a plain newbie:
can I use Imperial Sizing Wax as lube in this job ?
can I use swaged soft lead .41 bullets, (intended for use in m.57 S&W, offered free by a buddy) instead of .40 cal. slugs ?
can 10Auto cases be used instead of .40 S&W ?
thanks for any answer...

If you watch MannyCA's video, he offers several variations as to rifle dies, but recommended the 7x57 Mauser. When I made these bullets, I didn't have the components, but found a very reasonably priced used 7x57 Mauser die at my local gun shop. In those days (early 2019 -- seems so long ago), Lee 401-175-SWC bullet molds were $20 at Amazon, too, so I bought one online. Now, they are "unavailable."

I'm betting the Lee .41 slug (.401 bullet diameter) is designed for the Model 57 .41 Mag. It should work, because you are jamming that lead into the case as a lead core. The ram is forcing the soft lead to conform. Point is to end up with consistent weight bullets around 240 grains. Do your .41 slugs weigh around 175 grains? The point is to crush the lead into the case until the lead is flush with the mouth of the .40 case (or 10mm Auto) that has been shortened to .700 inch. The first action also reduces the .40 shell's rim to a boat tail so it never touches or harms the barrel and makes it easy to load into the .44 Mag shell. Then you reverse the bullet in the same setup, relube, and ram it in again. This puts a chamfer on what will be the front and pushes some lead out to form a conical softpoint.

10mm Auto cases should work -- you need to cut them down to .700 inch anyway. You'd simply be trimming off more brass. 10mm brass is way harder to come by than .40S&W in my area. I see 10mm every once in a while at the range and pick them up. But .40S&W used to be all over the place.

Just be sure to anneal the brass until they are soft. You should be able to distort the case mouth into an oval with your fingers. Manny says run them through a self-cleaning cycle in your wife's oven. They should reach 750-deg F, then slow cool.

The lube is simply so you don't get the swaged brass stuck in the steel rifle die. Your Imperial Sizing Wax should work. Don't skimp. I used a concoction of lanolin, beeswax and petroleum jelly melted together, as I recall. Very gooey. Never had a stuck case, though.

I shot them in my .44 Mag Marlin lever action.

Funniest thing: by sheer coincidence, I was visiting my local gun shop one day (where I bought the Mauser die) and a customer was in there holding the star-shaped brass from one of my rounds that I had test-shot into the embankment at the local outdoor range. He was asking the owners how this weird piece of brass had been turned into a bullet. Somehow, he had found it at the range. I just happened to come into the shop, ran home, and showed him my bullet board (the picture above) and explained him the process.

It's a convoluted process, but entirely possible. The bullets may not be the most accurate because their weights vary a bit, but with that brass jacket and soft nose, they can go fast and do serious damage.

More to the point, 240-grain jacketed soft point bullets run $32 per 100. But they are out of stock.

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[wilecoyote]

...I've immediately downloaded the video, and I thank you again about your multiple info & answers.
I really enjoy the hypothesis of this new project, together with the possibility of freeing myself from the commercial .44sjsp which are not only expensive here too, but quite heavy when I bring the 500pc. box at home!

[Sasquatch-1]

If you are annealing prior to cutting the brass try cutting first. It makes the step much easier. Also, I have found that the Harbor Freight saw does not cut the brass straight. I switched to using a Lee Universal 3 jaw chuck in a drill with a plumbers tubing cutter. I place the edge of the cutter against the chuck and it cuts just the right amount of to make a very nice soft point.

You can also use Sig .357 brass cut just below the neck.

I have left many a "Range Star" on the steel plate range at my club.

Not range stars but here are some fired bullets I have recovered.

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[wilecoyote]

Sasquatch-1 thank you !
HF saw would also have constituted an additional expense but above all I am glad to be able to work more quietly with a small tube cutter and the suggested tools, which I have at home, and I really appreciate all your added info !

[Sasquatch-1]

This is my set up.

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[wilecoyote]

This is my set up.
I am very relieved: this apparatus is vaguely familiar to me:D ....
thanks again !

[Liberty1776]

I switched to using a Lee Universal 3 jaw chuck in a drill with a plumbers tubing cutter. I place the edge of the cutter against the chuck and it cuts just the right amount of to make a very nice soft point.



That 3-Jaw Chuck looks to be very handy! https://leeprecision.com/3-jaw-chuck.html (out of stock at LEE, of course).

At the moment, Amazon has the chuck (90608, $20) and the drill adapter (90607, $11) so the chuck can attach to a drill. Good ideas. I'll try it!

Setting up the Harbor Freight cutoff saw is a pain, for sure, but worked adequately for me.

[Liberty1776]

I made a simple jig from a small block of aluminum. It allows me to set depth of cut with the left adjusting screw; and apply side load with the long screw to keep the .40S&W brass stable and square.

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This saw did previous duty trimming .223 brass so I could make .300 Blackout.

[Conditor22]

I always cut the brass a little long on the HF saw and tubing cutter (rounds over the end a little) and trim it to length on my case trimmer

[wilecoyote]

I just got home with a heavy donation of .41mag. swc swaged & lubed comm.l bullets.
now I will weigh them and check their hardness, which I think is very modest.
this will cost me a supply of custom cases for an M14 N.M. obtained from Lapua .30-06, inside and outside turned necks measured following the donor's Springfield chamber dimension, all bell & whistles, etc.etc._ win-win for both.
I still see here precious information, and I confess that I have worked satisfactorily with the pipe cutter also inserting the hex Lee case tr. base with screwed shellholder into the drill, despite having the 3 jaw univ. chuck somewhere.
meanwhile, thank you all for info & support !

[wilecoyote]

... two sizes of .408" bullets, nominally .41 cal., 215 and 170grs._
measured:
height 0.700”> weight 217,7 grs. _
height 0.603”> weight 168,5 grs.
More or less 15 lbs,all of them
if suited to the task, pros & cons welcome, before proceeding do I need remove the old solid lube or not ?
thanks to all

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[brass410]

I getting itchy to try this myself just ordered a mould to make the core for my 44 henry big boy. Was wondering about he accuracy tho.

[Liberty1776]

... two sizes of .408" bullets, nominally .41 cal., 215 and 170grs._
measured:
height 0.700”> weight 217,7 grs. _
height 0.603”> weight 168,5 grs.
More or less 15 lbs,all of them
if suited to the task, pros & cons welcome, before proceeding do I need remove the old solid lube or not ?
thanks to all


Using pure lead, my Lee TL401-175-SWC mold drops a 176.3 grain bullet that has a diameter of 0.4035 inches and is 0.6125 inches long.

In normal reloading, the slugs must be seated into a .40 S&W case, of course, so they fit tightly and don't shave any lead if the case mouth is expanded/belled.

Your bullets are .408 in diameter -- about .005 inch larger, and either shorter or longer. They might shave a bit as you swage them into the trimmed .40 case, but will probably work.

Per MannyCA's process, the slug is swaged into the trimmed .40 case, nose first.

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(Left: .40 S&W orig shell; Center: Finished .44 Mag Soft Point bullet in trimmed shell; Right: Lee 175gr .40 SWC pure lead)

When you swage the lead into the TRIMMED .40 case, the nose of the SWC slug is shmooshed into the brass so hard it disappears, and bevels the rim into a boattail shape. The lead ends up even with the mouth of the case. This process is why pure, soft lead should be used, not a harder alloy. You want the lead to flow into the .40 case.

You then turn the lead-filled shell around, lube its exterior again so it does not get stuck in the Mauser die, and shmoosh it into the Mauser die again.

This chamfers the mouth of the case and extrudes some of the lead out to form the soft point. (The final step is to size them using a .429 sizer.)

If you used your lighter bullet, you may end up with less soft point. If you used your heavier bullet, you may have more soft point.

Since you have both, I'd try both and see what happens. Not sure if you're going to get shaved lead. But it's only a few thousandths difference.

Per Manny, the trick is to adjust your Mauser die up or down in the Rock Chucker press (make sure your press is the stronger "O" shaped press and not an open-front "C" shaped press -- you're putting a lot of pressure on that slug and case) so you don't have to adjust the die between first and second swage actions.

Finally, I can't stress enough that the .40 S&W brass cases need to be annealed into softness. You don't want to wear your gun barrel out with hard brass messing up the rifling.

I got yelled at on another forum for asking about annealing whole cases -- rim included. Most guys only want to anneal the mouth and shoulder, and leave the case head and rim strong and not soft.

We want the entire case to be soft, like a copper jacket.

They say to anneal the whole case, cook the batch of brass in a self-cleaning oven at 750-850 degrees F. i don't have a self-cleaning oven. Another method is to float the brass in melted lead until the lead does not stick to the brass, then tumble it to clean it of any impurities.

On my first go, I put the cases in a cast iron skillet and blasted them with a propane torch. I have no idea if they became fully soft. So I'm thinking of melting down my supply and starting over with new brass. I certainly don't want to damage my .44 Mag Marlin's barrel or my .44 Mag 629's barrel over a silly experiment.

I'd remove the bullet lube. You don't lube the pure lead slug; you lube the parts that come in contact with the sizing die. Hit the .41 slug with a torch and melt the lube off, or dissolve it in some kind of solvent, like alcohol. Wax is a tricky substance to remove.

Hope this helps.

[Liberty1776]

I getting itchy to try this myself just ordered a mould to make the core for my 44 henry big boy. Was wondering about he accuracy tho.

This is a fun project. It's not sophisticated casting: you're using pure lead, not some tin/antimony or even wheelweight alloy. Easy. You don't even need to size the slugs used as cores. They're going to be swaged into unrecognizability.

Heck, you could use lead rope cut to proper size, if you can find it.

[ReloaderFred]

https://i.imgur.com/mXaQI9m.jpg

This is my process for making .429" bullets from .40 S&W brass.

https://i.imgur.com/hG1xuKA.jpg

Another view.

https://i.imgur.com/2ZDqVx1.jpg

The tools I used to use. I now have a Corbin CSP-1 Swaging press for these chores.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

https://i.imgur.com/afZTkvl.jpg

This is a batch ready to anneal. I like to anneal the cores and cases at the same time. I stumbled on a way to make bonded core bullets without the use of flux, which is hard on swaging dies.

https://i.imgur.com/g9AwzHR.jpg

After annealing. I raise the temperature of the kiln to 1,125 degrees F after loading the cores and jackets. I use that temperature because it's what Starline uses to anneal their brass between case forming stages, and I figured if it works for them, it'll work for me, and it does. After the kiln gets to temperature, I turn it off and let it set overnight. The next morning the cores and cases will still be over 250 degrees F. I remove them and let them finish cooling, and after cool, then give them a bath in Citric Acid to remove the debris left from annealing. After they've dried, then the forming steps begin. My bullets are just as accurate as factory bullets from my S&W 629 revolver, and in my Marlin and Winchester rifles.

It's very important to have clean jackets/cases when swaging, as it produces a better bullet. A good swaging lube is also necessary. And before anyone asks, Imperial Sizing Wax isn't up to the job.....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

https://i.imgur.com/NzKKEVv.jpg

Another view of my older ceramics kiln for annealing brass for swaging.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Liberty1776]

This is my process for making .429" bullets from .40 S&W brass.

The tools I used to use. I now have a Corbin CSP-1 Swaging press for these chores.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Wow! Those are absolute gems. They even have a cannelure! Beautiful. I'm really envious (which is a sin, but you know what I mean...I hope.) Great job.

Fred, What did that press cost you? What dies form the crimp and hollow point? Appears you don't even need to trim the .40 brass.

What's the bullet weigh, and what is the core?

[ReloaderFred]

One last thing; I don't trim my .40 S&W cases. With my process, I fold the case back into the hollowpoint, the same as Speer does with their Gold Dot bullets. Due to how thin the .40 S&W brass is, compared to normal .44 jackets, they expand "with aplomb" in soft tissue or media. Due to the core bonding, the only way I can separate the cores from the jackets after recovering them, is to melt the cores out of the jackets.

My bullets are made with C-H Swaging Dies and the cores are cast from pure lead.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

I was typing while you were. My bullets come out at 235 grains. I have an unlimited supply of military .40 S&W brass because the Coast Guard uses our range for qualifications and they aren't real good about picking up all their brass (like they're supposed to). I've found the military FC brass to be extremely consistent in weight, most often within 1 grain, but never more than 2 grains variation. I don't know how Federal does it, but that brass is almost always the same weight.

If you're asking about the Corbin CSP-1, I bought it from a friend a number of years ago who was losing his eyesight. I paid him $50.00 more than he asked for it, and it was still a good deal for both of us. The tall Hollywood Senior was purchased from a forum member also a number of years ago, who happened to be traveling down the coast and I met him down on the highway for the purchase. I also have a short Hollywood Senior press that I bought used in 1963, and still use on occasion.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[wilecoyote]

...Hope this helps.
Liberty1776, sure it helps:drinks:. I can't thank you enough: the last thing I want is mess the bores of two vintage mod.29 or of my almost new 444 remlin.
Lee mold coming soon, of course ...

[wilecoyote]

...Hope this helps.Fred
I see your set-up: you're entirely in another league, but it is enlightening anyway because glass and ceramic manufacturers work here in Murano/Venice, with even small-sized industrial ovens owned by some my acquaintances:-D
thanks for your inputs !

[slim1836]

This has been a fun read fellows (and gals perhaps, never know now-a-days), really has. I turned some .40 casings into .45 projectiles for fun a while back, and they worked.

Everything I learn on this forum makes my life so much happier, hope it does the same to most of the readership.

Keep up the good work,

Slim

[wilecoyote]

ordered the mold advised and a .40S&W + a 10auto Lee GAUGEs_ I think that shortening one of them as per your measures, I could obtain something to bypass my sawing mess. mounting the shortened stub in the Lee cutter & next in my el.drill, I hope to have something to cut fast and all uniformly the .40 or 10 brass needed to make the jackets...I'll see...

[Sasquatch-1]

ordered the mold advised and a .40S&W + a 10auto Lee GAUGEs_ I think that shortening one of them as per your measures, I could obtain something to bypass my sawing mess. mounting the shortened stub in the Lee cutter & next in my el.drill, I hope to have something to cut fast and all uniformly the .40 or 10 brass needed to make the jackets...I'll see...

The neat thing with the drill and tube cutter is you can run 10mm, 357 sig or 40 s&w and get the same size jacket without any adjustments. The only problem you may have using the 40 cal. slug is that the mouth of the case may taper in a bit. If this happens a small piece of steel rod or screw driver swiveled around in the mouth after annealing will open it back up.

[Postell]

Great read here gentlemen, thanks.

[a.squibload]

Easy/cheap way to anneal cases for swaging: line them up on an old cookie sheet,
tray, etc. mouth down. Heat each case head with propane torch 'til it just starts to get red. Helps if you don't have strong light on them so you can see when they start to glow,
don't have to be glowing bright. Plenty of heat will flow from the case head into the rest
of the case.
The next one in line gets heated by the flame flowing around the one you're heating,
so it goes pretty quick. Let them air cool and you're done.

Mannyca has several videos like that. I use his method to make 45 from 40 using 308 die
for swaging and 243 die for nose forming. Powdercoat negates the need for jackets,
thought I would never swage again but these are cool!

PS they feed well in the 1911, otherwise I use a cast round nose.

[Sasquatch-1]

Easy/cheap way to anneal cases for swaging: line them up on an old cookie sheet,
tray, etc. mouth down. Heat each case head with propane torch 'til it just starts to get red. Helps if you don't have strong light on them so you can see when they start to glow,
don't have to be glowing bright. Plenty of heat will flow from the case head into the rest
of the case.
The next one in line gets heated by the flame flowing around the one you're heating,
so it goes pretty quick. Let them air cool and you're done.


I tried this method years ago on the .40 cases. The flame from the torch kept knocking the cases over. I finally took an old 1/2 inch board and put about 20 framing nails through it and place the cases on the nails. Board makes it easy to dump the cases for cooling. If you use this method be careful...the nails do get hot and you can get branded when placing new cases on them.

[a.squibload]

I tried this method years ago on the .40 cases. The flame from the torch kept knocking the cases over. I finally took an old 1/2 inch board and put about 20 framing nails through it and place the cases on the nails. Board makes it easy to dump the cases for cooling. If you use this method be careful...the nails do get hot and you can get branded when placing new cases on them.

That sounds good. Yeah I let 'em sit there for a while.
One time the tray buckled from the heat and popped, most of the cases dumped over,
some went on the floor... :roll:

[Liberty1776]

I tried this method years ago on the .40 cases. The flame from the torch kept knocking the cases over. I finally took an old 1/2 inch board and put about 20 framing nails through it and place the cases on the nails. Board makes it easy to dump the cases for cooling. If you use this method be careful...the nails do get hot and you can get branded when placing new cases on them.

I'm going out to the garage and trying this right now. Excellent idea.

"I'm gettin' The Pig!"* (My air-powered framing nailer and a piece of plywood.)



* A favorite moment in the movie RED, which only old guys really enjoy...

Scene 1. https://youtu.be/RaxJMkkZEJc

Scene 2. https://youtu.be/Fh7rI3KRfw4

Scene 3. https://youtu.be/eXHdqulNiBs "Old Man my ass."

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[Liberty1776]

That was easy!

Blasted 25 3-1/2" framing nails into a scrap of 1" plywood.

Set 25 .40 S&W spent dirty cases (with primers) on the nails.

Turned off the lights.

Heated to glowing red.

The nail heads got a tiny bit warm, so I elevated the board onto an aluminum pan, just to be safe. That also allowed the flame to be above the table saw I was working on, too. Nothing got hot but the brass.

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Post-annealing. Brass looks great. No scale.

Cooled to touch in a couple of minutes.

Soft enough I could crush the mouths with my fingers.

Success! Thanks.

[Sasquatch-1]

Glad it worked out for you. I do dump mine in a pan of water after heating and every once in a while stick the board in water to cool off the nails.

PS Do make sure all the primers are spent. I kind of catches you by surprise when you heat one with a live primer and it ends up stuck in the ceiling.

[a.squibload]

I'm going out to the garage and trying this right now. Excellent idea.

"I'm gettin' The Pig!"* (My air-powered framing nailer and a piece of plywood.)



* A favorite moment in the movie RED, which only old guys really enjoy...

Scene 1. https://youtu.be/RaxJMkkZEJc

Scene 2. https://youtu.be/Fh7rI3KRfw4

Scene 3. https://youtu.be/eXHdqulNiBs "Old Man my ass."

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Dang, I'll have to watch that one again!
I know I've seen it but can't remember what's goin on... :confused:

[Huvius]

Here is a thread on doing quite the same as you are.
I finally went with pouring the core which is very consistent and must anneal the brass to some extent.
I do think, however, that you could probably skip the annealing step for a .429” projectile.
Early on in my experience, I always annealed but found that it was unnecessary even when sizing down to .423”
As I mention though, now I pour my cores directly into the brass.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?342079-More-Tight-Wad-Swaging

[Liberty1776]

Here is a thread on doing quite the same as you are.
I finally went with pouring the core which is very consistent and must anneal the brass to some extent.
I do think, however, that you could probably skip the annealing step for a .429” projectile.
Early on in my experience, I always annealed but found that it was unnecessary even when sizing down to .423”
As I mention though, now I pour my cores directly into the brass.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?342079-More-Tight-Wad-Swaging

My only fear is wearing out my barrel(s). Just because I can force the brass to comply doesn't mean it's as soft as a copper jacket, right?

My first go I merely heated the .40S&W brass with a torch in a cast iron skillet. I seriously don't think I got any of them to glow red.

I easily swaged that batch into +/-240gr .44 Mag projectiles, and even test shot some. They seemed to work fine.

Then I worried that the brass was too hard -- not annealed into true softness -- so I retired that batch and started over.

With this annealing process, I swaged about 36 projectiles this afternoon (that's all the .40cal SWC lead cores I had left from before). Each swage step was hardly an effort at all. Barely felt the lead compress and brass form in the Mauser die while in the Rock Chucker.

I seem to recall it taking a bit more effort to form the bullets last time with the less-annealed brass.

Also, this time they sized exactly to .429" after going through the .429" Lee Push-Through Sizer.

MannyCA said they were supposed to spring back to .430".

But the Hodgdon data calls for a JSP bullet to be .429" so I'm feeling pretty good about this.

I forgot how easy and fast it is to make these, once you have the brass trimmed, deburred, annealed and tumbled; and the 175gr .401 slug cast using pure lead.

After that, it's simply a matter of lubing the bullet and brass, jamming the bullet into the brass (which bevels the rim into a boat tail); reversing the bullet in the same setup and swaging the lead front to form a soft point.

Then a quick pass through the .429 sizer and they're done.

All this may seem like a silly exercise, but my normal bullet suppliers simply do not have any 240 JSP bullets in stock, and if they did, they would be $0.32 each plus tax and shipping.

These bullets, being seriously jacketed, can be pushed to full .44 Mag velocities.

And after investing in the tools (Harbor Freight 2" mini-saw for trimming, a 7x57 Mauser die, which I found used, and a 175gr .40 cal Lee 2-cav bullet mold), the bullets are virtually free to manufacture -- I have lead and brass.

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All that said, I think the idea of pouring hot lead into the brass would be an interesting experiment also.

How do you pour hot lead into a tiny shell safely and consistently? Doesn't it overfill and go all over the place? Do you hold the shells in something as you make the pour? Doesn't the lead shrink?

[Liberty1776]

Dang, I'll have to watch that one again!
I know I've seen it but can't remember what's goin on... :confused:

I own RED and RED2 on Blu-ray. Both are fun. Bruce Willis never disappoints. To me, a really good movie is one I like to watch again and again, even when I know how it ends.

I really enjoy watching Mary-Louise Parker's character Sarah grow from a timid and bored government paper pusher to a gun moll. Very funny.

[Sasquatch-1]

All that said, I think the idea of pouring hot lead into the brass would be an interesting experiment also.

How do you pour hot lead into a tiny shell safely and consistently? Doesn't it overfill and go all over the place? Do you hold the shells in something as you make the pour? Doesn't the lead shrink?

Trim your brass before annealing Place your core in the unannealed brass. Heat with torch until brass melts. This should anneal the brass and seat the core in one step. Hopefully your core will not be too big for the brass. If so weigh and load accordingly.

I don't use this method because I get a little anal about the weight and weigh every combination of core and jacket and add or remove lead to within a tenth of a grain of my target weight.

Also, if the range you go to has steel targets look around after shooting. You will find the range stars that people will start talking about when they find them.

[Liberty1776]

One more tool to add:

I ordered a CH4D Cannelure Tool from Buffalo Arms so I could roll a cannelure into the boolits. Probably arrive next week or so.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/bullet-cannelure-tool-4d12000.html

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I'll report back on how well it works....

[ReloaderFred]

This is how I mounted mine:

https://i.imgur.com/QVdU2UF.jpg

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Huvius]

How do you pour hot lead into a tiny shell safely and consistently? Doesn't it overfill and go all over the place? Do you hold the shells in something as you make the pour? Doesn't the lead shrink?

My cases fit directly into the mold.
The lead may shrink a tiny bit but that doesn’t matter since the case is next squeezed into the die.

[a.squibload]

"After that, it's simply a matter of lubing the bullet and brass, jamming the bullet into the brass (which bevels the rim into a boat tail); reversing the bullet in the same setup and swaging the lead front to form a soft point."

Liberty: probly don't want lube between core and jacket, but definitely want the jacket lubed to swage.

"Barely felt the lead compress and brass form..."
Yep, anneal step successful!

Range stars...
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[Liberty1776]

"After that, it's simply a matter of lubing the bullet and brass, jamming the bullet into the brass (which bevels the rim into a boat tail); reversing the bullet in the same setup and swaging the lead front to form a soft point."

Liberty: probly don't want lube between core and jacket, but definitely want the jacket lubed to swage.

"Barely felt the lead compress and brass form..."
Yep, anneal step successful!



YES. I went back and watched MannyCA's YouTube video and he noted that the core should be dry going into the .40S&W, but the outside of the case should be lubed.

[Sasquatch-1]

When I started swaging I watched a lot of videos by Ammosmith Reloading and Hillbilly Angler (his channel had a different name back then) Between those two you can really learn a lot.

[LeadHead72]

This is something I would like to try for myself. Has anyone here used the resulting bullets on game such as deer to know how they'll hold up and/or expand in an animal?

[Sasquatch-1]

This is something I would like to try for myself. Has anyone here used the resulting bullets on game such as deer to know how they'll hold up and/or expand in an animal?

If you look at post 5 of this thread you will see some rounds I recovered after shooting. They were recovered from the berm and a bowling pin. It should give you a good idea how they would work on game.

Post 43 shows what they look like after hitting steel.

[wilecoyote]

Tried: 20 lbs. Lee melting pot works perfectly for annealing the cases. Thank to all about the input!
Tried: Lee case cutter mounted on a drill and coupled to a shortened .40 S&W Lee case length gauge works quite well, without having to buy a more expensive saw.

296881

[Sasquatch-1]

Similar method. I use the Lee universal 3 jaw chuck and a tubing cutter.

296884

[wilecoyote]

I will certainly try yours too, because I scattered brass dust everywhere :)
but anyway I shortened them without sawing them by hand, and for me it is already a result[smilie=l:

among other things, I tried Imperial Sizing Wax, because I had nothing else at hand.
in my case it worked well in all the swaging steps where I used my RCBS Ammomaster and without particular effort .

[Sasquatch-1]

among other things, I tried Imperial Sizing Wax, because I had nothing else at hand.
in my case it worked well in all the swaging steps where I used my RCBS Ammomaster and without particular effort .

From what I have read in the past just about anything that can be used to size brass can be used for swaging in steel dies. (I will probably catch it for that one.) It's just that when I started the Lanolin/Castor oil mixed seem to be the standard for homemade. I did this back when Obama was first in office and still have two 4 oz. jars in the freezer, I haven't started to think about using.

[wilecoyote]

what I had on hand at the time can have unexpected results, sometime even more when I make mistakes or reverse some instructions :smile: . not perfect, but the fun has just begun...

[wilecoyote]

among my other strange trial-error results, I see that it is possible to obtain something with brass that cover the tip more, accentuating the ogive profile. not of great use in revolvers, but perhaps useful in leverguns where feeding can be critical, and a rounder, or more tapered anyway, nose preferred.
the only additional die used is a .45acp seater, here.

[roysha]

https://i.imgur.com/afZTkvl.jpg

This is a batch ready to anneal. I like to anneal the cores and cases at the same time. I stumbled on a way to make bonded core bullets without the use of flux, which is hard on swaging dies.

https://i.imgur.com/g9AwzHR.jpg

After annealing. I raise the temperature of the kiln to 1,125 degrees F after loading the cores and jackets. I use that temperature because it's what Starline uses to anneal their brass between case forming stages, and I figured if it works for them, it'll work for me, and it does. After the kiln gets to temperature, I turn it off and let it set overnight. The next morning the cores and cases will still be over 250 degrees F. I remove them and let them finish cooling, and after cool, then give them a bath in Citric Acid to remove the debris left from annealing. After they've dried, then the forming steps begin. My bullets are just as accurate as factory bullets from my S&W 629 revolver, and in my Marlin and Winchester rifles.

It's very important to have clean jackets/cases when swaging, as it produces a better bullet. A good swaging lube is also necessary. And before anyone asks, Imperial Sizing Wax isn't up to the job.....

Hope this helps.

Fred

Are you saying that you heat the case AND lead core to 1125 degrees? Isn't that a bit high for lead?

[ReloaderFred]

I heat them both together. The kiln is completely enclosed, with no venting, and I don't open it until the inside temperature is down to about 250 degrees F. People I've talked to about this speculate that the lead and brass are joining at the molecular level, but I'm just a hobbyist, not a scientist, so I'll just take their word for it.

You don't want to heat lead to those temperatures if you'd be breathing the vapors from it, so yes, it is a little high for lead. My goal was to make the core and jacket "as one", and I accomplished that without the use of flux.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[45workhorse]

Keeping track of this, another thing to try.

[wilecoyote]

I have a bunch of ready .401-175grs. pure lead slugs.
a Lee 20 lbs. furnace, and the .40 cases to be annealed _

I would like to understand if, since .40 cases have to be annealed anyway, and we want to insert our 175grs-.401 slugs, cast by Lee mold, it is not easier to insert the ready slugs in the cases first, and then place all 50 pieces, with the case mouth up, in the lee 20lbs. electric pot. (50 pieces fit right, upright, in there) _
beyond the use of flux (bonding is not my goal, now), etc., certainly the pure lead would have to adapt perfectly to the cases thanks to the fusion induced by the brass annealing.
what I do not know is whether the cases thus filled can then stress the press (RCBS Ammomaster) more than allowed,
or make it more difficult to obtain the j.44 during the forming in the 7x57mauser die.

before my next mess, pros & cons are really welcome. thanks to all

[Sasquatch-1]

I have a bunch of ready .401-175grs. pure lead slugs.
a Lee 20 lbs. furnace, and the .40 cases to be annealed _

I would like to understand if, since .40 cases have to be annealed anyway, and we want to insert our 175grs-.401 slugs, cast by Lee mold, it is not easier to insert the ready slugs in the cases first, and then place all 50 pieces, with the case mouth up, in the lee 20lbs. electric pot. (50 pieces fit right, upright, in there) _
beyond the use of flux (bonding is not my goal, now), etc., certainly the pure lead would have to adapt perfectly to the cases thanks to the fusion induced by the brass annealing.
what I do not know is whether the cases thus filled can then stress the press (RCBS Ammomaster) more than allowed,
or make it more difficult to obtain the j.44 during the forming in the 7x57mauser die.

before my next mess, pros & cons are really welcome. thanks to all

As long as you are using dead soft lead (as pure as you can get) and the jackets are annealed, the Ammo Master should be able to handle the stress. I reform lead alloy bullets using a Rock Chucker 4 press and do not have a problem with the press.

[wilecoyote]

As long as you are using dead soft lead (as pure as you can get) and the jackets are annealed, the Ammo Master should be able to handle the stress. I reform lead alloy bullets using a Rock Chucker 4 press and do not have a problem with the press.

Sasquatch-1, thanks for the reply!
I'm really interested to try them in my .444