Whitworth Rifle

[irish-maniac]

Hello,

I have a 3 digit SN Parker-Hale Whitworth rifle, and I am looking for advice on the best moulds to acquire. I heard about the Leon Kranen Whitworth mold, but I guess that mould is a unicorn these days and have not been able to locate one. Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you!

[pworley1]

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/3536/category_id/341/product_name/MO0708+Lyman+Conical+Mould+-+.451

[irish-maniac]

Does Dixie Gun Works regularly re-stock these moulds? It is listed as unavailable. Are they a production exclusive to this vendor? Thank you!

[Wayne Smith]

That's a Lyman mold, so if it's still being made it should be available from any distributor of Lyman molds.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Pedersoli are making the Whitworth rifle, may be able to get a mold through the local dealer!

[irish-maniac]

Thank you. I will look into it. Does anyone know where I can find a Leon Kranen Whitworth mold?

[Bigslug]

Can't help you on Kranen. Dixie has this one. if you want to go the authentic, paper-patch route: https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/1362/category/341/category_chain/578,342,341/product_name/CA8010+Whitworth+Bullet+Mould

My father procured that mold for his. It makes a good bullet, but it definitely requires heat.

[irish-maniac]

Thank you. I have heard mixed reviews on that Dixie Mould. I heard maybe one in 10 cast bullets were usable because of the heat issue, but it is a copy of the original casting mould.

[Racing]

Right.
I´ve got an original, serial C832, and have spent 1 yr+ by now dwelling on this.

First up. Indeed it has shown that the gun shoots about just as well with cylindrical boolits, but hey.. where´s the fun in that.?
I indeed DO use cylindricals, even from an old original Thomas Turner mold, and.. what can i say? Works.

My peeve though has become the hex ones.
Thus i bought the one Hensel offers and have to go on record that Hensel.. never again. What i was first delivered was a mold with the rifling twist built in backwards.
Nooo... i´m not kidding.
When i wrote Hensel on the subject they basically didn´t take notice in any other manner than.."well send you a new one". Mark. The wait alone.. Hello.
Performance wise? Nah. Generic i´d say.

So. As i´m an engineer with dirty nails we took to CNC cutting our own molds, and i have since been on the matter trying to evaluate the effects of various ogives and what not.
NOT an easy task and to add insult to injury our range bottoms out at 300 meters.

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That said we´re by now on our 7th design, and pushing forwards.

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..even made a few swaging dies..

On the original the rear sight has two different markings. One for hex boolits and one for conicals and as experience has it this turns out to hold water pretty well.
I´ve since, as the idea here is to get a grasp on what the GUN can make happen fabbed me a non intrusive scope base for the thing, and use this in a shooting bench with 24 times @ 300 meter.
Idea being to sorts of take "me" outta the equation.

Summary this far, it´s still a work in progress, is that the actual ogives DOES matter. When we´re fooling with this though it has turned out that when we arrive at a design wanted we normally see boolit weights of 550 grains up.
Load ladders in turn normally starting @ 70 grains of powder.

Now. I´ve chatted with Dave Minshall as well as other Euro based shooters on the matter and lately SOME have reverted to sorts of a "minie" style indication out back. We´re currently trying to reach some sort of summary to the benefits of this with hexagonal boolits but where we´re at it SEEMS in makes results on the target more repeatable.

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So yeah, it might look very very controversial but just trust me.. Unbolt the thing and it was never on there and see...at age 56 with the sight that follows that there is a TOOL. Nothing more complex than such and it does WONDERS evaluating what we´re at here.

We´ve also experimented quite a bit with varying boolit hardness. What´s more i find that using hex projectiles needs to be followed by hex cut wads, if used.

As most guns the thing shows more than one sweet spot. Due our nationals over here we´ve thus also tried a somewhat lighter and shorter boolit intended for short range work more specifically.

As for load ladders with a Whit. If it reacts anything like the originals use steps of 3 grains approx. That´ll show you soon enough if you´re online or not.
As for the actual gun make sure the barrel is free floating when in idle. Ie; that barrels bands and what not are resting on the stock, not the barrel, and as it is a fixed breech gun just shim what´s needed - if at all.

IME they are wonderful guns but the hype IS a tad exaggerated. Sure though, it IS the grandad of it all and indeed it is what altered how we make small arms to this day.
Shooting an original, the bore on mine is about mint, is of course also a matter of taking care of the thing - which i of course do in about an anal fashion.
My old ´un there.. got it for lease so to say and some day someone else is going to be its caretaker so...

[Racing]

284425

Here the Hensel boolit. Mark the "ledge" where the ogive meets the sides of the boolit. Also, the mere fact of three pieces tells that this isn´t exactly the latest of designs, seeing the advent of CNC technology.

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Here one of our "home brew" CNC made molds. We cut them from regular 6082 aluminium, works as well as anything, and for casts out of pure lead calculate a shrink of approx 6/100mm.
Mark that due CNC we cut the 1:20 rifling twist into the mold split. Ie; it curves with the twist.

284427

Here yet another one of our hex designs. Mark that the Hensel mold is a rather far cry from this and they charge like 250$ at that aaaaand you´ll have to wait about 4-6mnths to have it delivered.
Hell no.

Thus far, it´s a hobby project after all, we´ve been down the path of all in all 9 designs, of which two are swaged. What we´ve seen and experienced thus far though swaging carries like zero benefits to us.
But hey.
That´s just us.

[Nobade]

Impressive work there. Thanks for sharing!

[Bigslug]

Thank you. I have heard mixed reviews on that Dixie Mould. I heard maybe one in 10 cast bullets were usable because of the heat issue, but it is a copy of the original casting mould.

The funny story there. . .Dad & I got started casting with a Whitworth replica for him and a Webley MKVI for me. Talk about two of the WORST possible mold designs to learn on. . .

We got enough acceptable bullets for the Whitworth to last him - - well, until now, and that was when we knew A LOT LESS about mastering a mold than we do now. I suspect the current PID would have been a big help. Also, we didn't know the trick of dipping the mold into the pot to heat it at the time.

It is assuredly NOT a mass-producer, but then, the rifle is not exactly AR mag-dump material either.

Like Racing, we used hexagonal felt wads (lubed in our case) beneath the slugs. Never did get around to playing beyond 100 yards with the thing, but the combo showed promise for all of that.

[irish-maniac]

That is great info. I have also heard that cylindrical bullets perform well, but I too want to really try the hexagonal boolit as it is so different. I love the challenge of developing the optimal boolit/load combination, so this will be a great rifle to try to achieve that. I hope you will provide updates on your advancements in the whitworth boolit development!

[Red River Rick]

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Red River Rick

[sharps4590]

A friend of mine bought one of the Dixie molds and it works fine. As others have mentioned, his doe like to cast hot.

[Racing]

Worth mentioning is that many within the collective use PP boolits.
The hex is then of course cast accordingly. Seems most wrap wet and let to dry.

[Bigslug]

Apparently, CBE will order for you from KAL? KAL does not list it on their own website

https://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/new-products/product/3721-kal-hexagonal-whitworth-bullet-mould

Expensive little jewel, and no hollow base cavity for tucking your paper patch tail into as on the Dixie, but it may be easier to manipulate. That of course is just a matter of adjusting your patch technique. What "Minie Effect", if any, you get off that hollow base I could not say, though I'd think your paper patch will really be handling the sealing as they are a snug fit.