38 Spcl. Shotshells - CCI vs "Home made"

[Rizzo]

I did some recent testing with some shotshells that I just reloaded, and also some factory CCI 38 spcl. shotshells.
I shot them from my Ruger SP101 2-1/4" barrel.

I used 38 spcl. cases
5.0 grains of HP38
90 grains of #7-1/2 shot (from a shotgun shell)

The CCI shotshell uses #9 shot, as I recall.

Here is a couple of pictures showing the difference between the two:

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On the left is the CCI Shotshell. On the right is my "home made" shotshell result.
Click on a picture and it should expand to a bigger picture.

There is a definite difference in the two shot sizes.
The #7-1/2 shot gave a tighter group. Perhaps because of the heavier shot.

Anyway, I am happy with these and thought you folks would be interested.

[Bull-Moose]

Thanks for sharing. I haven't been able to find the Speer shot capsules for a long time. Did you use capsules, or some other method?

[racepres]

For my use, the 357 speer shot shells are not stout enough for my varmints.. will roll a Squirrel, or a similar size rat... but they do Not stay Down.. the 44Spl is the smallest ctg, with the Speer capsules... loaded with no.9's, that will plant a fair sized barn rat.. and smokes squirrels.. Yer critters size may vary!!

[Outpost75]

Thanks for posting. Your shell is getting great results. I also load my own and prefer No.8 shot.

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[Finster101]

I loaded some in .357 cases with only 2 grns of Red Dot for a friend in Kentucky and gave them to him. I had read that the lighter charge helps keep the pattern tighter. He hates snakes and lived very near Kentucky Lake. They must have worked. He reported many dead snakes along the shore of the lake. He was using a 4" Smith & Wesson which I now have. Sadly he is no longer with us.

[Rizzo]

Thanks for sharing. I haven't been able to find the Speer shot capsules for a long time. Did you use capsules, or some other method?

The CCI Shotshells that were used were the factory rounds that you buy....if you can find them.
If you can find them, CCI also sells the plastic empty "capsules" that you can load yourself and press them into the casing.

For my home made shotsells I used:
38 spcl. cases
Added 5.0 grains of HP38 powder
I then topped that with a thin cardboard disk that I punched out using a 3/8" hole punch.
I used a pin punch that just fit into the case to "tamp down" the cardboard disk and powder.
I then added 90 grains of #7-1/2 shot
Topped that off with another cardboard disk and tamped that down also.
Then finished it up with a heavy crimp to roll the case mouth over enough to hold everything in.

[Electrod47]

I have used Speer Shot Cups and "rolled my own" with out. I went ahead and sucked it up years ago and bought a 5lb bag of Lawrence 12# Shot. Talk about shredding snakes.

[Capt.Red.44]

Has anyone tried the shotshell kits from sagesoutdoors? Ive been looking at them hard for a while now for .44 mag and .357. Im debating on charge weight and the metal disc vs cardboard disc between powder and shot column and overwad? Any educated oppinions or first hand recomendations?

[Adam Helmer]

Rizzo,

Excellent post! Here in northcentral PA we have rattlers and a few copperheads. In the .38 Special case I found the load of Unique, a gas check and a dose of #6 or 7.5 shot and another gas check and a crimp makes my snakes turn themselves into knots.

I found some shot capsules did not shatter enough on firing to give a good pattern at 10-20 feet. The gas checks sealed the deal perfectly.

Adam

[dverna]

I believe one of the members here (LarryGibson?) made shot capsules from milk jugs. Been a long while so not 100% sure.

BTW enjoy these kinds of posts.

[Ed_Shot]

I make my own #8 shot and load 38/357, 10MM, 44Spl/Mag and 45 LC with card over powder and inverted GC over shot using an appropriate load of Bullseye. Perfect snake and small vermin medicine.

[Chris S]

I make these by sharpening a cartridge shell inside and out with a champher tool. Then use the cartridge to punch out paper disks with a rubber hammer and soft pine wood, use the weight of paper that primer sleeves are made of. Size your brass, 5 grains of 231 (for 38 spl), push down a paper disk, fill almost to the rim with 9 shot, then another paper disk. Seal with super glue and let stand to cure... no crimp. Very mild, almost no felt recoil, but at 6 feet a snake, rat, whatever has no chance. At reload, the brass will have no signs of the glue and not even really need to be resized.

Chris

[Mr_Sheesh]

Superglue has good tensile strength, almost no shear strength, that's why. Lots of other options that would work as well.

[WebMonkey]

Has anyone tried the shotshell kits from sagesoutdoors? Ive been looking at them hard for a while now for .44 mag and .357. Im debating on charge weight and the metal disc vs cardboard disc between powder and shot column and overwad? Any educated oppinions or first hand recomendations?

i've used these.
i like the gas check looking disc over the shot.

i use 7 1/2 shot.

[trapper9260]

I load both the Speer caps and my own like was stated with the cards punch out but I use a gasket hole punch. I also use it for shotgun reloading . I put 2 cards over the powder and then one over the shot . I used super glue and then with Elmers . I also use the card way for my 32s and 44 spl and mag .

[John McCorkle]

Has anyone tried the shotshell kits from sagesoutdoors? Ive been looking at them hard for a while now for .44 mag and .357. Im debating on charge weight and the metal disc vs cardboard disc between powder and shot column and overwad? Any educated oppinions or first hand recomendations?I have used cardboard (actually pieces cut from business cards)

Worked like a charm. Light loads are better...no advantage to more powder and the higher the velocity, the more the shot dispersion because of the rifling.

Titebond 3 on top over shot card and a crimp keeps it in place well.

Careful for hard backdrops/rocks/stumps. If you are very close the shot won't have enough ump to penetrate wood ect...and will ricochet back on you. Watch your eyes

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[MeanDean]

Nice! I have been looking into loading some of these up. I have a pound of Green Dot and thinking about working up a load for this. I was thinking trying it and loading some in a .357 case with cardboard wads and 7 1/2 shot.

I am thinking maybe 4.0 grains, or do you think that might be a little heavy to start?

[Finster101]

I don't think Green Dot would be the powder of choice for these. They are very low pressure and you most likely will end up with a lot of unburnt powder.

[MeanDean]

I don't think Green Dot would be the powder of choice for these. They are very low pressure and you most likely will end up with a lot of unburnt powder.

Well I was trying to use up some old powder I had on hand. What about Clays or Titegroup?

[Finster101]

The fastest powder you have would be better suited I think. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

[hoodat]

The older Speer Manuals (and maybe the new ones) have a section on this with the Speer shot cups. They listed 4.5 grains of Bullseye in the 38's, but also mentioned that lower power = better patterns. That has been my experience and I stick with 3 gr of Bullseye.

The estimated pattern spread was 1" per foot of distance. (20 feet gives a 20 inch spread) These aren't a long range proposition. jd

[MeanDean]

I do also have some Herco that I might experiment with as well.

[MeanDean]

I ended up using 357 cases so I could get some extra shot into them. I loaded up a few with 5.5 grains of Herco, about 80 grains of 7 1/2 shot with card stock wads. Roll crimped the cases to help hold the card stock in position.

I was impressed… very mild report with a good pattern. Barrel had fairly mild fouling.

In my opinion a very successful experiment! ��

[Alferd Packer]

IMHO you don't need more than 3 grains of any of the fast shotshell powders in a pistol shotshell load.
Anymore is probably beginning to blow the pattern at further range.

[9.3X62AL]

I agree with the "Less is more" when it comes to powder weight in these snake and rat loads. I use Remington 357 Mag cases, #9 shot, 3.0 grains of WW-231, and a couple gas checks sized at .355" in the Lyman 450. I may shift to the #12 shot for my next batch of 50, which has lasted for 10 years+. I don't hunt snakes, but when they hunt me I will install heavy metal. In my area, we are blessed with rattlers, sidewinders, and the occasional Mojave Green to keep the dull times minimized. With perfectly capable snakes like king snakes, rosy boas, garters, and gopher snakes for rat control, it makes you wonder what Our Creator was thinking about when He came up this "venomous snake" concept.

[MeanDean]

I’ll cut back the powder and see how it works out.