Any Molds Like This for the 35?

[ChristopherO]

My 98 Mauser that was sporterized is finicky on loading cast boolets. I've been using the Lyman/Ideal 358318 RN to feed from the magazine for this 35 Whelen rifle, but can't say I am enamored with that particular slug. FN boolits will not load from the magazine at all if they are full length, a common malady with these.
The other day found in my kit some 158 Hornaday Hollow point jacketed SMC's I loaded 20 years ago for fun. Shot a few for old times sake and it was very pleasing. They are short enough to load flawlessly from the magazine well. With a hacksaw, drill and a couple files I took the 358318 and turned it into a 180 grain LFN boolit, which is the weight I was looking for:
284225

This matches the hp swc for length perfectly:
284226

If I keep the exposed portion of this wide flat nose (.250" meplat) to .30" then this, too, cycles perfectly in the rifle.
284227

Problem, I can't find a current mold maker that makes something akin to this with a gas check design. I want to potentially spit these out from 1,800 to 2,100 fps.
Have any suggestions on where to find what I am looking for?

[DocSavage]

Tom at Accurate may be able to make what you want.

[Cherokee]

Also recommend Accurate.

[dh2]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/358/360-214-fn-u3/360-214-fn-u3-2-cavity-gc-rcbs/
My rifle does not allow the 250 Gr, boolit to chamber so this boolit is where I went to for the solation

[ChristopherO]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/358/360-214-fn-u3/360-214-fn-u3-2-cavity-gc-rcbs/
My rifle does not allow the 250 Gr, boolit to chamber so this boolit is where I went to for the solation

Dh2, that is over a .5" nose from the crimp groove to the nose. I doubt it will feed in my Mauser straight from the magazine as flat nose boolits bind on the edge of the meplat and edge of the chamber, which really buggers their profiles up ugly. The round nose style just feeds in, while the SP will slide in nicely. Without trying a few of those for fit and function I don't think paying for that mold will be my answer. Plus, they are out of stock, as much of everything is right now. Thank you, though, for the suggestion, I do appreciate it.

[lar45]

Have you looked at the Ranch Dog 35-190? It has a little bit longer nose, but should work well for your Whelen.
284266

284267

[MT Gianni]

No location listed but the rifle might be improperly throated, I would start with cerrosafe or a pound cast and see about having the throat reamed.

A barrel should be able to fit the factory cartridges it is chambered for including the 250 gr Whelen cartridges. I had an A&B barrel installed and have not experienced problems at all, nor have I heard of "A common malady with these".

[ChristopherO]

lar45, those are pretty. MT Gianni, the rifle does chamber factory cartridges, including 250 gr Whelen SP's and RN. The problem I am having is that the longer flat nose lead bullets won't feed without cutting in on the chamber edge. I'm not the only Military action Mauser shooter that has this problem from my research. That isn't to say that this chamber can't use an expert eye, but any normal jacketed bullet feeds and shoot just fine. But I want to enjoy shooting many cast boolits from this rifle. Thus my trials to make this work out.

The cost of a new custom mold get steep if this won't actually work so the hacksaw, file, sandpaper and drill was employed again. This time the 358318 was cut to length (.67) once again but with the full nose width left in tact. Would it chamber? Yes, surprisingly, it did with the bullet nose extended out of the case mouth by .30". The .250" compared to the .330" nose cross section:
284271

But it did snag on the edge a bit:
284272 Still, that was promising.

Noe makes this 182 gr WFN GC .360 mold that could do the trick, if it feeds smoothly:
284273

Chucked up in the drill the meplat was reduced to .280" to mimic the NOE offering:
284274
It cycled beautifully and repeatedly. I believe the dilemma has been solved. If NOE can produce one of these molds (everything is sold out except one aluminum non GC mold) then I know what to do to enjoy playing with this Mauser more often.

Maybe the next test will be to reshape a 358318 to resemble the dimensions of the 360-214 FN that dh2 recommended to see if it will chamber.

[358429]

Have you looked at the lee 358 200 flat nose bullet?

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[cwlongshot]

My suggestion is a RCBS OR SAECO 180 bullet.

But Lar is right that ol Ranch Dog 190 osis a great one and if hunting its a much better bullet.

I have all three if you would like a few to try PM me and pay shipping.

CW

[white eagle]

Tom at Accurate may be able to make what you want.

can't beat Tom for getting what you want
just ask him he will probably do it for you
a man of many talents

[358429]

This is the lee bullet. I load them in 38 special brass, shoot them in a rotary magazine 357 magnum rifle. Over all length is 1.62 inches and they feed perfect. They might work for what you are trying to do. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210611/8fdd3fc8763a153c4d6cfa6d037736bc.jpg

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[ChristopherO]

A bit more tinkering this evening. With the good things said about the RD 190, NOE 214, the Saeco and RCBS 180's another 358318 was sacrificed for research, creating a fair facsimile of the NOE 214 grain boolit taken from the website (please keep in mind that this is only for finding out what works, not to infringe on NOE's designs. I'm using a hacksaw, file, sand paper and a battery drill to cobble these up).
With a meplat of .221 +/-", a nose length of .5" this is the result:
284306

Kinda pretty, but will it function with half an inch protruding from the case mouth? It did......when I only loaded it one at a time. Having played this game before I loaded all three experimental dummies in the magazine. If the NOE copy was first in line or third down in the magazine well then, yes, it would chamber quite well. BUT, if it were second in the stagger the flat grabbed the chamber entrance every time. Notice the nick on the meplat:
284307

Did you happen to see the black line on the circumference of the boolit? That was a predetermined measure of .40" nose protrusion out of the case mouth. Setting the bullet deeper into the case to meet that line again I sought to see if this shorter boolit would load any better from any position in the magazine stagger. Surprisingly enough, it did. Multiple times from top, middle or bottom of the three dummies tested this NOE 214 copy at .40" sticking out was the winner over the other two stubbies, by far. After a bit one of the stubby boolits, mainly the one with the broader meplat, would catch the chamber edge. Glad to say the NOE 214 copy did not bind up one time when loaded .10" shorter than designed. Whether cycled slow, medium or fast, from port arms or butt on the shoulder the NOE copy feed freely every time, and there were a couple dozen times.
284310

The 358318 boolit used in this test had plenty of forward band to accommodate setting the boolit into the case mouth further. I am not sure if the actual projectiles from the molds you gentlemen suggested allows that or not. This, too, will need to be looked into. I appreciate all you suggestions as I find the conclusion of this search for the perfect target and hunting boolit for this particular rifle.

[farmbif]

I have a very old no longer made Lyman 190 grain or could be closer to 200 round nose mold that supposedly is the same bullet that law enforcement used to use long ago in 38spl. it was famous for key holing into bad guys. I'm not sure where I put the mold have not used it but I'll dig it out in next couple days if you interested and someone else doesn't know the number. it just might work for what you need

[ChristopherO]

farmbif, thank you.

[quack1]

I have a very old no longer made Lyman 190 grain or could be closer to 200 round nose mold that supposedly is the same bullet that law enforcement used to use long ago in 38spl. it was famous for key holing into bad guys. I'm not sure where I put the mold have not used it but I'll dig it out in next couple days if you interested and someone else doesn't know the number. it just might work for what you need

Sounds like a 358430. I have that mold, drops at 193gr with clip on wheel weights. I use it in my model 14 Remington, and it works well.

[ChristopherO]

Had some time to do load work up today. One more try with the Lyman/Ideal 358318 RNGC design. Lubed with 2500+ and BLL loaded over 28 gr of IMR 4227, tuff of Dacron and CCI 300 LP (I estimate this to be in the 1,920fps area). 100 yards. Try as I might I can't seem to get these and this Mauser to put it together like I want it to
284664

In case you think the rifle, or I, can't shoot, this is what 7 grains of Bullseye with a SAECO 175 gr PB can do at 60 yards in the same outing
284665
At least this 5 shot string makes a heart glad.

[Ford SD]

I like the look of the Noe 360-228-FN (35XCB)

I plan on using it for my 35 Whelen ... Just have to cast some up

[oldblinddog]

The problem you are having with feeding from your x military 98 Mauser has to do with the inside measurements of the magazine box. The cartridges are crowded due to the width at the shoulder of the Whelen cartridge. The box is the correct measurement for the 8 mm most likely. Find a competent smith to alter the box. If he says he will work on the feed rails, politely leave with your rifle in hand and seek help elsewhere.

[ChristopherO]

I like the look of the Noe 360-228-FN (35XCB)

I plan on using it for my 35 Whelen ... Just have to cast some up

I agree, that looks intriguing to me, also, but I want to hunt with cast and that tiny meplat concerns me for that purpose. If there were documented tests done that show it expands adequately with a certain alloy mix, then it could get my nod.

[ChristopherO]

The problem you are having with feeding from your x military 98 Mauser has to do with the inside measurements of the magazine box. The cartridges are crowded due to the width at the shoulder of the Whelen cartridge. The box is the correct measurement for the 8 mm most likely. Find a competent smith to alter the box. If he says he will work on the feed rails, politely leave with your rifle in hand and seek help elsewhere.

Good to know. Thank you.

[farmbif]

I have not put my hands on that old Lyman mold yet, but 358430 just might be it. gotta find that bag of old 38 moulds. ive got several for 35 whelen, 35 rem, 357mag but my classic Remington 700 in 35 whelen shoots real well with NOE COPY OF RCBS 35-200 , checked and lube sized at .360.
I had big plans to work up new loads with some old camp Perry powder, AA2520, with RCBS 35-250 but too many other projects have gotten in the way.

[lar45]

ChristopherO, I'm wondering if your test with the LFN-ish bullets were maybe just going too fast?
If it were me, I'd try starting around 1400-1500fps and work up 50 fps at a time until the groups opened up to find your top end velocity. Another thought would be to play with the seating depth to make sure you're engaging the lands with the nose.
Just some random thoughts.

[oldblinddog]

Good to know. Thank you.
You are welcome! I ran into the same problem when building a .338-06 AI on a 1909 Mauser. I found the solution in one of the Mauser books, I think it was the one by Ludwig Olsen. There is a formula to calculate the dimension at the shoulder. Each model of the Mauser is sized for the cartridge it comes in, in this (my) case it was the 7.65x53 Argentine.

[Hootmix]

chris ,, I have a older Lyman # 2660315 ,, 358315 , 204gr., RN GC , 35 cal. ck. out this # and see if it would work for you.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[ChristopherO]

ChristopherO, I'm wondering if your test with the LFN-ish bullets were maybe just going too fast?
If it were me, I'd try starting around 1400-1500fps and work up 50 fps at a time until the groups opened up to find your top end velocity. Another thought would be to play with the seating depth to make sure you're engaging the lands with the nose.
Just some random thoughts.

Hello lar45, that grouping was from the old Lyman RN boolit. But, to let you know, from the generosity of a member on this site I have recently tried the 190 RD FN boolit and it functioned very well, glad to say. I also had the opportunity to try out the NOE 182 FNGC and they, too, cycled quite well. I believe my search has been satisfied by either of these two boolit styles. I am ready to place an order tonight. Thank you, ChristopherO

[ChristopherO]

More testing yesterday. With all the major mold suppliers back ordered out so long I decided to modify 10 of the 358318 RN PC on hand. With a quick jig I cut them to length on the bandsaw.
285954

A crude beveling the nose on the belt sander provided 175 grain (+/-) boolits of .70" in length.
285955

Cast from Range Scrap and aimed at 6 water jugs at 75 yards didn't quite confine any of the test rounds in the medium at approximately 1,750 fps, but this one was found on the back stop about 10 feet behind the line of jugs:
285956

Could this work for plinking and fairly matching the ballistics of the 350 Legion on a deer? If these were more precisely modified, then I believe it would make accuracy more acceptable. Why is the 350 L mentioned? I live in a straight wall only state that won't allow the 35 Whelen to be utilized, but that doesn't mean a fellow can't play to see if the itch needs to be scratched at some point. Plus, this is fun and a new shooter, as well as myself, can enjoy shooting plenty of these with little powder burnt in these times of scarcity.

[cwlongshot]

I live in a "Shotgun state". But on private with enough acreage. A HP rifle is allowed 243 to 501 is allowed. But we are well Populated and carting a 308/30-06 just seemed wrong. So I turned to my 45 Colt and then in late 1980's went to the 357 Maximum when I got one mistakenly. (Ordered a 375 Win) Its about perfect for my kinda hunting deer here. Then when this "Legend" was announced I was elated. Then JUST AS DEPRESSED when I learned of Winchesters STUPIDITY.
BUT, as we are casters and re loaders...I justified it as I can make any dia I choose and bought one!! I do like it! Now I have two. ;)

CW