new to the Muzzle

[straight_shooter]

many questions,,and info.

Picked up a very good condition
Jukar .45 cal. refinished , browned..clean.
casting soft lead round .445 Lee cast, ..wieght =.126 gns
Hogdon Pryrodex RS ( FFG equivalent ) only powder i can find.
using mueket caps ( swapped out nipples) only caps i can find

Purchased a plackpowder loading measure.
i measured 80 grns ( which was advertised to measue in grns not volume?)..
.check on my beam scale = 52 grns .???????

where to start> for correct loading data ...and measures??

[mooman76]

Pyrodex is lighter and designed to use a BP measure so 50gr in a measure by volume will equal 50 gr of real BP.

[straight_shooter]

BP measure?
( pics added to original post) so what is this in the picture ?
this is BP measure .but your saying that PYRODEX is lighter?
and my scale confirms this ..
GOT IT.. THANKS\

[straight_shooter]

what about the bullet weight?
to low?
i also have w/w lead igots. but read that is to hard on the barrel?

[725]

Use the volumetric measure. Forget the scale. A lead round ball weighs what it weighs, you're good to go. Just starting out, also forget trying to hot rod that gun. 60 grains will be fun and save some powder. If the need presents, you can increase the load. One thing you have not mentioned is patch material. What are you going to patch the ball with? None of this is rocket science, but there are several important things to know about using a front stuffer. Please find a good, printed, manual to follow. Cleaning is a particular skill set as well. Always start the cleaning with a water based solution of some type. Windex, Simple Green, dish soap water ~ doesn't matter. Follow up with drying and then a good cleaning with your favorite solvent and end with an oil preservative.

You are starting a fun hobby. Good luck. Welcome to the site.

[straight_shooter]

i have pile of rifle cleanning patches mic'd to .015
Did a burn test........ they turn to ash.....

Lubed the balls with "johnny ring wax" .lol ..cheaper ,goes along way ,,

being a Marine Vet and an Army reserve dog a few years.
all my weapons are OCD maintained :bigsmyl2:


after some fun. i would like to get a kit to build "Liver Eating Johnson's"

[pietro]

.

Lose the rifle cleaning patches for patching the RB and instead use proper/sturdier patching material - like washed/dried (to get rid of the sizing) striped pillow ticking or even old denim.

"Spit patches" are an even cheaper lube.

FYI:

Pure Lead Ball Weight

.310 = 45 grains
.315 = 47 grains
.321 = 50 grains
.350 = 65 grains
.360 = 71 grains
.375 = 80 grains
.395 = 92 grains
.400 = 96 grains
.433 = 122 grains
.437 = 127 grains
.440 = 128 grains
.443 = 131 grains
.445 = 133 grains
.451 = 138 grains
.454 = 141 grains
.457 = 144 grains
.490 = 177 grains
.498 = 180 grains
.520 = 212 grains
.530 = 224 grains
.535 = 231 grains
.543 = 241 grains
.550 = 251 grains
.560 = 260 grains
.562 = 276 grains
.570 = 279 grains
.575 = 286 grains
.595 = 317 grains
.600 = 325 grains
.610 = 342 grains
.648 = 410 grains
.662 = 437 grains
.678 = 469 grains
.680 = 473 grains
.690 = 495 grains
.715 = 550 grains
.730 = 586 grains
.735 = 598 grains
.760 = 661 grains
.775 = 700 grains
.835 = 875 grains
.919 = 1167 grains
1.052 = 1750 grains

.

[Gray Fox]

At least in my area you can go to Walmart to the sewing area and buy the blue and white striped pillow ticking by the yard. This has been the traditional patch material forever. Run it through the washing machine to wash out the fabric sizing and run it through the dryer or just hang in on a line to dry. Cut it into 1 1/4 strips, then cut into squares. One yard of material will give you more patches than you'll ever shoot. You don't really need round patches. This is why you hear of old timers having a patch knife. They'd roll a yard of oiled patching, seat the ball in the end of the roll, then use the patch knife to cut the roll off at the edge of the barrel. Put about 20 into a snack or sandwich baggy and dribble in some olive oil or grapeseed oil, mash them around a bit and let them sit to allow the oil to penetrate them. If too dry and some more. You can probably find a small bottle of olive oil at the dollar store that will do hundreds of patches. Hope this helps, Gray Fox.

[Carbineone]

I hate Pyrodex and other substitutes..Real Black Powder for me..But I am fortunate to have a source fairly close by so no shipping..

[Mk42gunner]

Pyrodex is a volume equivalent to black powder, not weight. As noted a given volume of Pyrodex will weigh less than the same volume of BP. Load Pyrodex by volume, not weight.

It is also harder to light off than BP, your musket caps may be a blessing.

The CVA marketed Jukar built guns were not high quality, but they can be serviceable. My first BP gun was the CVA Kentucky pistol. I shot .440 balls from it, mainly using cut at the muzzle patches.

I also killed a lot of small game and starlings with it, so as I said, they can be serviceable. Remember to clean it after shooting and all will be fine.

Robert

[725]

Straight shooter, No slight intended over the cleaning thing, it's just that BP & BP substitutes need water to break the salts that foul the barrel. Once that is done, go forth and clean away. Some don't hit the water first and I constantly have to show them the damage with a bore scope, later.

[Edward]

i have pile of rifle cleanning patches mic'd to .015
Did a burn test........ they turn to ash.....

Lubed the balls with "johnny ring wax" .lol ..cheaper ,goes along way ,,

being a Marine Vet and an Army reserve dog a few years.
all my weapons are OCD maintained :bigsmyl2:


after some fun. i would like to get a kit to build "Liver Eating Johnson's"

Sounds like the wrong patch ,get some pillow ticking ,if you think you can reuse the patch your on then way /ash not so much/ED

[Edward]

Forget cheap get what works Jeez/Ed

[GregLaROCHE]

Soft lead is preferred because it is easy to obturate to make a seal. If you are patching(some don’t), then you can use harder lead. Harder lead will not harm the bore and if you’re patching, it shouldn’t touch the bore anyway. Good luck. I’m sure you will have a lot of fun muzzle loading.

[indian joe]

i have pile of rifle cleanning patches mic'd to .015
Did a burn test........ they turn to ash.....

Lubed the balls with "johnny ring wax" .lol ..cheaper ,goes along way ,,

being a Marine Vet and an Army reserve dog a few years.
all my weapons are OCD maintained :bigsmyl2:


after some fun. i would like to get a kit to build "Liver Eating Johnson's"

Get you some pillow ticking or drill for patches (100% cotton not a synthetic blend)
And the lube goes on the patches not the ball...........................

[waksupi]

It would be good if you could examine the bore on that rifle with a bore scope. Jukar at one time would bore and rifle the barrel from both ends. They weren't too particular if the holes aligned in the middle of the barrel.

[Edward]

Get you some pillow ticking or drill for patches (100% cotton not a synthetic blend)
And the lube goes on the patches not the ball...........................

Johnny ring wax ain"t wax and being made in china , and maybe what it is ain"t something you want to know about ! and if it is animal fat/oil or veggie/oil it works (forget the wax) it will work better than anything from Home Depot /Ed

[rodwha]

I’ve often read others advise starting the powder charge at caliber and working up to find the more accurate hunting charge, typically between that and twice caliber. It seems some find another accurate load below caliber that they use for plinking and small game.

You can use alloys when patching a ball. There’s a fellow who tested brass balls successfully, though I’m not sure if it was rifled or smooth. The patch is what seals the bore with a patched ball.

[Edward]

I’ve often read others advise starting the powder charge at caliber and working up to find the more accurate hunting charge, typically between that and twice caliber. It seems some find another accurate load below caliber that they use for plinking and small game.

You can use alloys when patching a ball. There’s a fellow who tested brass balls successfully, though I’m not sure if it was rifled or smooth. The patch is what seals the bore with a patched ball.

Sure does (HOW EVER) the reason soft lead is used is simple and straight forward ,it moves when loading .The patch is certainly going to fill grooves but it is helped by the soft lead being dispersed by the patch .If it was hard anything it is rough on patch's ,so you will not have the same option of thinner/thicker ,ya got one patch and either way from that you have patch failure along with accuracy . Anything other than lead works great in a smooth bore using a bare ball and any combo of wads/cards/leaves/grass Ed

[rodwha]

I know there are a lot of hunters who use alloys for balls in their rifles. For some it’s what they use range lead for and save the soft stuff for their revolvers.

[Edward]

Yup I do too ,well maybe 2 as it ain"t to big here but think about the statement . If you got to work a alloy with the patch ,the patch goes south along with accuracy if it is hard . The patch does fill the groove but again the lead has to be soft otherwise you get torn patches . You can make anything work but it doesn't mean your hard alloy will not damage your patch As far as other guys using it is like recommending bore butter for patch lube/paraffin or boiling water down the tube for shooting /cleaning . It isn"t hard to prove shoot a bunch with soft /different diameter /different lubes , it involves trigger time (a good thing) and examine patches then do the same with any alloy of your choice .You will find again (for sure ) the mold your casting were meant for pure LEAD not any alloy brass or whatever you find .Increase the BHN and it will lessen weight and increase diameter ,if thats your goal great but nope it aint mine and shooting soft get you expansion not a pencil hole thru and thru at round ball yardage again easy to prove on game . I do know some guys that come home saying a perfect shot /broadside ect but no blood trail just some hair /Ed

[rodwha]

I’ve used nothing but old lead pipe, but I’ve contemplated 2% tin to help with bullet fill out. I see no reason, other than were I to get harder lead, to use it. I wouldn’t mind any expansion of my .490” balls, but they don’t need it. A caliber sized hole works quite well. Soft lead only readily expands above 1100-1200 FPS, which a .50 cal drops to around 75 yds with a stouter load. We all know they’re good we’ll beyond that.

[Mk42gunner]

For a round ball, I see no need for adding tin for mold fillout. There aren't any lube or crimp grooves to worry about. A conical? Yes, I can see the need, but not for a Round Ball.

With that said, for a patched round ball I think anything from pure to wheel weights can be made to work fine. I wouldn't go as hard as Lyman # 2 or Linotype, but softish alloys should work.

Robert

[rodwha]

For a round ball, I see no need for adding tin for mold fillout. There aren't any lube or crimp grooves to worry about. A conical? Yes, I can see the need, but not for a Round Ball.

With that said, for a patched round ball I think anything from pure to wheel weights can be made to work fine. I wouldn't go as hard as Lyman # 2 or Linotype, but softish alloys should work.

Robert

It would be for my cap n ball bullets, but I’d likely be ordering from Rotometals so the ingots would be 2% tin for everything.

[Wayne Smith]

For cap and ball balls you want pure - you take the chance of breaking your loading lever with anything harder. If ordering from Rotometals order pure lead.

[rodwha]

For cap and ball balls you want pure - you take the chance of breaking your loading lever with anything harder. If ordering from Rotometals order pure lead.

Nah. Kaido sells/sold his that are/were BHN 7or 8 IIRC. No more than 10. It doesn’t have to be pure or else with most guns. Maybe the flimsy Rem Pocket might have a problem. People use slightly hardened lead through revolvers quite a bit.

[toot]

remember that REAL BLACK IS WHERE IT IS AT!!