Opinions needed

[Half Dog]

At work, a special bulletin board is dedicated for inclusion and diversification. This seems to be gay pride month and I feel this is getting out of hand. My blood really boils when they say they want equality and inclusion. I feel this is an attack on what has been judged as being wrong and I’m sick of this lifestyle trying to insist of acceptance.
The company has a complaint line but I’m not capable of providing an acceptable defense that they will accept. I’m not afraid of a battle, I’m sure it will happen again in the future, so to make a stand of what is right what would be your defense be to eliminate the promotion and inclusion of gays in the workplace?

Thanks in advance for your time and input.

[rancher1913]

welcome to sodom and grimora all over again, hopefully a few wake up and turn away before its to late.

[tankgunner59]

My first defense would be my best offense, prayer! Ask God to guide you in your handling of this situation. He does have all the answers.

[1hole]

At work, a special bulletin board is dedicated for inclusion and diversification. This seems to be gay pride month and I feel this is getting out of hand.

IMHO, any statement that is based on "inclusion and diversification" is a tacit political admission that the whole thing is everything BUT inclusion and diversification. The goal of such slimplistic farces is always pressure for public submission to a very narrow utopian wet dream and a total suppression of all other dreams.

Proof: Would anyone seriously believe those tender souls asking for "inclusion and diversity" of special groups would ever openly ask for equal respect for Christians, whites, males, gun and pick-up truck users, hard & dependable workers, school teachers who actually teach and don't indoctrinate, sexual straights, political conservatives & Trump voters, our military & our law officers? Not bloody likely.

Any person depending on public screaming, whining and crocodile tears to get public respect knows they have already lost any legitimate claim for whatever respect they might have had.

Foggy headed liberals obviously can't understand it but real respect has to be earned, not forced by tear-stained PC bulletin boards or dreamy laws.

[slim1836]

It may have been a corporate decision in order to satisfy EEOC. Lawyers probably were involved in the postings. It's a CYA thing. Anyone bucking the system is to be identified and weeded out. Let us know what your next evaluation is compared to the last ones and that will tell you something.

Slim

[Hogtamer]

“My first defense would be my best offense, prayer! Ask God to guide you in your handling of this situation. He does have all the answers.” The best possible answer! Thanks for posting that.

[Ickisrulz]

Ignore the bulletin board. Treat people decently regardless of who they are. It is not the Christian's job to fight sinners into sanctification.

[Winger Ed.]

I've gotten to where I just ignore that 'in your face' sort of nonsense.

These gay rights activists would be fine if they'd just shut up and go about their lives like the rest of us.

Back when the shop needed a new manager, and I wouldn't do it, the owner asked me
who I thought would be a good choice to promote from within. I told him.

It was the lesbian lady that ran parts & shipping. Several months later, the owner asked me
what I thought of her performance. I told him she was very good at what she was tasked with,
and I didn't have any problems with her as technically being my supervisor.

She was cool to work with. She looked after the best interests of all the guys in the shop
better than the previous three male managers did if they were all put together.

Also, she didn't have all the rainbow tattoos, bumper stickers, and flags either.
I retired a couple years later, and as far as I know, she might still be doing a good job as the shop manager.

I'm no expert on the matter, but that's about as equal of treatment as I can imagine.

[Txcowboy52]

I hate the thought that anyone has to deal with such garbage. They are just pushing the left wing narrative. Like some one said pray, pray for the whole country!! If you read and believe in God and his word , he says it is an abomination. I don’t believe In persecuting any group . I personally will never accept it and I don’t like it shoved down my throat or pushed on our children as being acceptable. If it’s normal and natural why can’t they procreate!?!?

[wv109323]

Get some inexpensive Bibles and advertise free Bibles as gifts. Put up a notice of your church services. If anyone objects ask for the board to be taken down.

[bakerjw]

My company had diversity training.
If you have 2 equally qualified candidates...
Hire the one who is not WHITE... STRAIGHT... HETERO... CHRISTIAN... NON-TRANS...


SMDHID...

[dverna]

You do not have any right or standing to prevent gays from being hired or promoted. Even if you owned the company, you cannot discriminate. You do not need to agree with the rules, or accept it as "normal" but you need to learn to deal with reality.

BTW, I know a couple of gay "men" and they are not bad or evil people or "in your face" activists. I do not accept their choice but see no reason to harm them in any way. One is the son of the couple we attend church with and we have become close friends with the family. It pains them to deal with it. God tells us to hate the sin but not the person. For some, that is difficult to do.

If you cannot find the answer in God and prayer, maybe your pastor can be a sounding board.

[1hole]

My company had diversity training.
If you have 2 equally qualified candidates...
Hire the one who is not WHITE... STRAIGHT... HETERO... CHRISTIAN... NON-TRANS...


SMDHID...

IMHO, your company's personnel office is run by college trained idiots; such candidates are never equal.

Paper equality doesn't include things like work ethic, dependability, good attitude, a willingness to learn and a willingness to work well with other employees. All of that matters to a busy work force but it's rare for people in the "politically protected" classes to have those important qualities.

If new hires don't work out a company can fire straight, white Christians without batting an eye but it's unsafe for them to release politically favored classes for any reason at all these days. Thus, hiring currently protected new people by tilted PC "equality" standards often comes back to bite well-meaning employers in the butt later.

The best place to employ human deadwood is government. Real places that really have things to do need helpful workers. Few PC politicians and modern "achedimic intenterlexuls" understand that because it's not within their range of work force experience.

[.429&H110]

I would say it depends on whether your company receives ANY federal money.
ANY federal money coming in for any "activity" makes you Title IX.
If you are Title IX, this is cribbed from them:

Title IX and Sex Discrimination

U.S. Department of Education
Office for Civil Rights
400 Maryland Avenue, SW
Washington, D.C. 20202-1328
Revised May 2021



Title IX

The U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) enforces, among other statutes, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972. Title IX protects people from discrimination based on sex in education programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance. Title IX states:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

Scope of Title IX

Title IX applies to schools, local and state educational agencies, and other institutions that receive federal financial assistance from the Department. These recipients include approximately 17,600 local school districts, over 5,000 postsecondary institutions, and charter schools, for-profit schools, libraries, and museums. Also included are vocational rehabilitation agencies and education agencies of 50 states, the District of Columbia, and territories of the United States.

A recipient institution that receives Department funds must operate its education program or activity in a nondiscriminatory manner. Some key issue areas in which recipients have Title IX obligations are: recruitment, admissions, and counseling; financial assistance; athletics; sex-based harassment, which encompasses sexual assault and other forms of sexual violence; treatment of pregnant and parenting students; discipline; single-sex education; and employment. Also, no recipient or other person may intimidate, threaten, coerce, or discriminate against any individual for the purpose of interfering with any right or privilege secured by Title IX or its implementing regulations, or because the individual has made a report or complaint, testified, assisted, or participated or refused to participate in a proceeding under Title IX. For a recipient to retaliate in any way is considered a violation of Title IX. The Department’s Title IX regulations (Volume 34, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 106) provide additional information about the forms of discrimination prohibited by Title IX.

OCR’s Enforcement of Title IX

OCR vigorously enforces Title IX to ensure that institutions that receive federal financial assistance from the Department comply with the law. OCR evaluates, investigates, and resolves complaints alleging sex discrimination. OCR also conducts proactive investigations, through directed investigations or compliance reviews, to examine potential systemic violations based on sources of information other than complaints.

In addition to its enforcement activities, OCR provides information and guidance to schools, universities and other educational institutions and agencies to assist them in voluntarily complying with the law.

To learn more about filing a complaint with OCR............

<<I retired from the University of Alaska, and let me tell you this bunch is worse than the IRS.>>
<<A lot of otherwise sane non-federal companies are also using these "guidelines">>>
<<If you kick God out, who do you suppose is running the place?>>

[.429&H110]

TL;DR
I had to do 100 hours on the job "Title IX training"

Did you notice they will investigate

"...violations based on sources of information other than complaints."

You might mention that any mention of sexuality in the workplace is a violation, and it doesn't matter which of the eleven sexes you are. Sexuality is verboten. Nobody shall be harassed. Or else.

[Carbineone]

I will just offer my condolences to you and that is all I will say,LOL

[1hole]

BTW, I know a couple of gay "men" and they are not bad or evil people or "in your face" activists. I do not accept their choice but see no reason to harm them in any way. One is the son of the couple we attend church with and we have become close friends with the family. It pains them to deal with it. God tells us to hate the sin but not the person. For some, that is difficult to do.

It gets old to keep hearing knee jerk assumptions that those of us who don't bend over and smile to welcome gays into our lives must also seek to do them physical or emotional harm; that's overstated nonsense.

So, you know a couple of likeable homosexuals at work; okay. I have a homo nephew who has a supposed trans-male daughter. I have a life-long friend who's three kids have all called me uncle since they could talk and one of the two girls is a lesbian. I love them all dearly and would fight anyone who even tried to harm one of them.

I knew a few at work. I never heard a single degrading slight spoken to anyone's face and that's as it should be but it should never be forced by the power of government's guns; that's unconstitutional "liberal" tyranny. Anyone disrupting workplace peace should be fireable but that's not possible for the flaming queers our PC clowns are eager to jam in our face!

We should all be very careful about accepting divisive laws mandating who must be hired, protected and promoted by private companies. I sure don't think anyone's sex life should automatically gain them an immediate leg up over straights. We should all fear laws that give current protected people advantages simply because of their race, religion, sex or sex life.

If we continue to meekly allow our amoral government to force its way on questions like these who knows, we might someday wake up to find legally protected "trans" boys identifying as girls so they could happily beat females on a playground and then share their showers! Think about that, if you can.

Question: If we call a dog's nose a foot, how many feet will the dog have?
Answer: Four.

We can call things something they are not but changing labels changes nothing. Call things whatever you will, everything remains what it is. Therefore no matter what my ***** nephew's daughter calls herself, she is not and never will be a man.

[kelli]

Cope

[Blackwater]

We, as Christians, so easily and often forget that it's NOT our place to stand in judgment over our fellow human beings, even when they seem intent on infuriating us. It's hard, I know, because I have to fight it myself. But the proper way for a Christian to treat his fellow man is to treat him with all due human respect. That does NOT mean we need to argue with him about lifestyles, or anything else. Demonstrate a Christian demeanor toward those you believe are errant in whatever way, and they're a LOT more likely to listen to you, and m aybe even hear the message of Christ and redemption. Not all will respond that way, or course, but think of those who do! Evil cannot stand against righteousness. You just have to pick or find a time when they're, or may be, receptive. Never underestimate the power of the word of God, or man's thirst for it, no matter how resistant they may at first appear. And never try to cram in your beliefs into a pagan. And remember, when it's most difficult to control your temper, that's when it's most crucial that you do so. God grants great blessings to those who learn to control their tempers.

[hoodat]

One of my theories is that a pretty good number of young gays and trans, will change their mind about their sexuality when it quits working for them and they grow up.

Life has a way of beating sin and stupid behavior out of you, if it doesn't kill ya in the process. "Normal" folks should present a desirable impression of normal life that will give ALL sinners a place to land when the mood hits them.

Groups that don't simply accept homosexuality, but PROMOTE it, are way off base, and may very well endure Gods' wrath -- and should. jd

[bowfin]

One of my theories is that a pretty good number of young gays and trans, will change their mind about their sexuality when it quits working for them and they grow up.

I just read a study which concluded that 80-90% of gender identity confusion issues in teens goes away spontaneously...thus the urgency among some factions to have the kids embrace it before it goes away.

[MT Gianni]

If God loves sinners I believe we should try to as well. That doesn't mean not telling someone in your face to tone it down. Are you also angry at the marketing of adult products being constantly pushed into your house in the form of marketing? What have you successfully done to prevent that? I believe that a clear line is being cast to let sinners know where they stand before the Lord.

[Bloodman14]

I have always felt the members of the 'alphabet community' have no fewer rights out of the closetthan they did when in the closet. The only difference? They are shoving it in our faces and telling us that we have to accept it. NOT!! They can have a 'gay pride' parade, but a 'straight pride' parade is homophobic? Since when did we feel the need to 'parade' our private activities to the world?

[fixit]

This is simply another in a long string of attempts at permanently altering the fabric of reality. Part of the push behind the gay agenda is an international societal engineering tactic to lessen the number of procreating individuals.... quite literally, it's part of the population control narrative. That said, it's also an effective way to undermine the most basic societal unit, that being the family. While you will see there is a very real human element to this, it only takes a small amount of digging to realize that this issue is far more sinister, and deeply spiritual. Quite bluntly, the family was one of the first institutions that God set into order, and it, the family, is one of the most effective sources of societal order, so it would make sense that Satan would devote much energy to undoing it!

[Riverside]

Neither you nor your company needs to change. The federal government needs to change.

[Riverside]

Those who seek to disarm a nation should study the masters: Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Castro etc.

[Old Caster]

Everyone needs to either go by what the Bible says or ignore it. There is no in between that is possible.

[Triggerfinger]

Prior generations warned about homosexuals and communists destroying governments and nations.

[Blackwater]

As Christians, we are taught to be rather meek in most all situations, and the situation ouylined in the OP is one where I think blowinhg our cool and spouting off can serve no good purpose. It reminds me of someone who wants others to make a perfecty world so they can relax and enjoy it. We were put here for a reason, and that reason is to do battle with the evils in this world. But we do that NOT by mouthing off, but by setting examples, particularly for the young among us, and by offering our sincere and honest take on thingss when we're asked. Cnristians are supposed to be self composed at all times. That's not only obeying Christ, it's just good, solid personal policy anywhere at any time.

[.429&H110]

+1 Well said, Blackwater!

Do you remember the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes"?
At the end a little boy yells, "Look, Mommy, that man is naked!"
Lately we have passed laws that the emperor is not naked
and the media agrees: what a fine wardrobe.
Can a wage slave challenge his master?
I am retired and this year I am seeing a lot of early retirement.
The good moral people are walking out, the echo chamber stays.
What is a Christian to do? He does what God sent him to do.
We walk the extra mile, we do not become Romans.
As I remember it, the Romans won at first, then lost everything.

[BunkTheory]

I just read a study which concluded that 80-90% of gender identity confusion issues in teens goes away spontaneously...thus the urgency among some factions to have the kids embrace it before it goes away.

Actually it was proven in a study that happened between between 32 countries involved by phsycologists that if a child who "thought" they were "wrong gendered" was treated as the biological gender, that by age 16 they would have forgotten about the political baloney about being wrong gendered

[BunkTheory]

Hasnt anyone here actually comprehended that EEOC and political correctness is not geared to creating equity, but to the promotion of those not worth promoting to anything?

If they only thing that matters is a job candidate is a certain race, or "orientation" then how can anyone say they were even good enough to be a job candidate...

Seriously, if you have the actual SKILLS to do the job, you shouldnt need extra points for being black or gay or whatnot

[sniper]

IMHO, any statement that is based on "inclusion and diversification" is a tacit political admission that the whole thing is everything BUT inclusion and diversification. The goal of such slimplistic farces is always pressure for public submission to a very narrow utopian wet dream and a total suppression of all other dreams.

Proof: Would anyone seriously believe those tender souls asking for "inclusion and diversity" of special groups would ever openly ask for equal respect for Christians, whites, males, gun and pick-up truck users, hard & dependable workers, school teachers who actually teach and don't indoctrinate, sexual straights, political conservatives & Trump voters, our military & our law officers? Not bloody likely.

Any person depending on public screaming, whining and crocodile tears to get public respect knows they have already lost any legitimate claim for whatever respect they might have had.

Foggy headed liberals obviously can't understand it but real respect has to be earned, not forced by tear-stained PC bulletin boards or dreamy laws.

Well said!

[sniper]

+1 Well said, Blackwater!

Do you remember the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes"?
At the end a little boy yells, "Look, Mommy, that man is naked!"
Lately we have passed laws that the emperor is not naked
and the media agrees: what a fine wardrobe.
Can a wage slave challenge his master?
I am retired and this year I am seeing a lot of early retirement.
The good moral people are walking out, the echo chamber stays.
What is a Christian to do? He does what God sent him to do.
We walk the extra mile, we do not become Romans.
As I remember it, the Romans won at first, then lost everything.

One of Robert A. Heinlein's novels contained this passage...paraphrased: "Nowadays, the System would kill the kid who said "the Emperor has no clothes." And...I read somewhere "When the wicked rule, the people mourn". Looks to me like we are living in those times.

[1hole]

What gender am I? Well, I work to support my family and stand to P; that conveys obvious gender messages about me, at least to common sense folk. Seems it takes a really expensive college education to make a few obnoxious self-styled "intellectual" people (few of whom contribute anything helpful to society) too stupid to recognise the obvious.

[fixit]

this highlights a phrase i coined some years back in response to all the mess we have....arrogance makes smart people stupid!

[rfd]

Half Dog - what would Jesus do if in your shoes?

[GhostHawk]

"Isaiah 5:20-21
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!"

We have been warned.

My advice, say nothing, do nothing but live as a God fearing man should live. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
Give unto the Lord that which is the Lords. Your worship, your praise and thanks.
Help those in need, but judge not, lest ye be judged.

As for all that LBGT BS I realized I believe in it myself.

Liquor, Bacon, Guns, Tobacco. I have imbibed freely of them all. :)

[bakerjw]

Pete Furler once made a profound statement. "There is nothing that you can do to make god love you any more and there is nothing that you can do to make him love you any less." God is pure love and we should strive to give to others the love that is so freely given to us.
I started a new job back in the late 90s and the guy I worked with knew that I was a strong believer. He asked me what I though of gay people expecting the "They will burn in the fires of hell." diatribe. I told him that I am not one to judge anyone else. Hate the sin but love the sinner.

Sadly, the ones who scream and clamber the loudest for tolerance become the least tolerant and that is the cause of the friction. Acceptance for being gay, moral or not, was all that they wanted. It has shifted from basic acceptance of being gay to acceptance of deviant behaviors as being normal which they are not.

I know a lot of gay people and some have become very dear friends. If you notice from the most intolerant ones though, they are struggling and seeking justification. Condemnation will not help them, only setting a Christlike example.

And heck. I'm not even much of a believer. LOL

[1hole]

.... I started a new job back in the late 90s and the guy I worked with knew that I was a strong believer. He asked me what I though of gay people expecting the "They will burn in the fires of hell." diatribe. I told him that I am not one to judge anyone else. Hate the sin but love the sinner.

It is not "unloving" to warn anyone heading full bore into danger.


Sadly, the ones who scream and clamber the loudest for tolerance become the least tolerant ....

Quite true. And the mouthy ones confuse personal intelligence with how loud they can howl and scream. And, as determined "liberals", they are by far the least tolerant of free speech rights of anyone who disagrees with them.


Acceptance for being gay, moral or not, was all that they wanted. It has shifted from basic acceptance of being gay to acceptance of deviant behaviors as being normal which they are not.

Social acceptance, properly understood, simply means public tolerance. What the wacko homos say they want is acceptance but they already have that; they want much more! What they really want - demand - is not simple tolerance but a positive affirmation of their freely chosen destructive life choices. They won't get it from me.


... know a lot of gay people and some have become very dear friends. If you notice from the most intolerant ones though, they are struggling and seeking justification. Condemnation will not help them ....

I know a few. Three are in my family circle. I love them dearly and they know it. I've never said a word to them about their lifestyle. But, they know me so there's no need for me to get in their face and tell them what they do is wrong in the sight of God.

My inner circle homos are simply sinners, just like me. For a variety of reasons, they don't want to give up their bedroom sin but they know the spiritual truth as well as I do. So, I will not say that bad is good or that good is bad in order to make them feel happy on their road to hell (that's truth, not a diatribe). They are good people and I love them but I will never even pretend to grant them the approval they think they want.

[fixit]

One point about sin is that ALL sin separates us from God, and all sin made Jesus suffer and die on the cross. A trait that seems to be increasingly absent from the church and the world is compassion. We, myself included, are too quick to jump up on a soapbox and start preaching hellfire, and not quick enough to get done off the box and try to be a friend and a guide.

[Butzbach]

In the end, fornication is fornication. Only God knows why homosexuals have been given this mental illness cross to bear.

Perhaps you need to find employment where management does not discriminate yet does not enable mental illness.

[Combatmedic63]

Yes, this is definitely a modern day Sodom and Gomora. I would handle this with prayer and meditation on the Word.

[1hole]

Only God knows why homosexuals why have been given this mental illness cross to bear.

I don't believe gays or have been "given" any cross to bear; it's no more a cross for them to bear than being a prostitute, a thief or a liberal politician (but I repeat myself). Anyway, living in deliberate sin is something sinners seek for themselves and none of them need outside help to do it.

[Combatmedic63]

I don't believe gays or have been "given" any cross to bear; it's no more a cross for them to bear than being a prostitute, a thief or a liberal politician (but I repeat myself). Anyway, living in deliberate sin is something sinners seek for themselves and none of them need outside help to do it.

Amen! God would not put being a homosexual or lesbian on anyone. This is a choice that is made by the individual. I have heard that they are born this way, with the attraction to the same sex being in their genes. I say this is hogwash. I also don't believe that transgender/non-binary folks are born with this urge to be something they are not. God makes NO mistakes and they are born as God intended.

[1hole]

Amen! God would not put being a homosexual or lesbian on anyone. This is a choice that is made by the individual. I have heard that they are born this way, with the attraction to the same sex being in their genes.

True.

I know some people are indeed born with tendencies towards specific things. Some lean towards football, some towards basketball and some foolishly lean towards golf; some lean towards doing paperwork, some towards race car driving; some towards hang gliding, some fishing; some lean towards armed thief and robbery, some towards being uniformed cops and some towards the military; most folk lean towards straight but some towards perversions of various kinds. BUT, putting all public whining aside, if something is wrong, it's wrong and no one is compelled and helpless to do or be anything he/she does not choose to do. Queerdom is clearly wrong because the parts don't fit and no amount of current human approval will change that.

Bottom homosexual Line: Some men naturally prefer to rob banks for a living instead of going to work every day but they can live right, they sure don't HAVE to rob banks instead of doing right ... and they sure don't HAVE to pack poo at night.


God makes NO mistakes and they are born as God intended.

Enough said.

[Ickisrulz]

Amen! God would not put being a homosexual or lesbian on anyone. This is a choice that is made by the individual. I have heard that they are born this way, with the attraction to the same sex being in their genes. I say this is hogwash. I also don't believe that transgender/non-binary folks are born with this urge to be something they are not. God makes NO mistakes and they are born as God intended.

Think about the reality we know. Babies are born with serious health defects (e.g., blind, missing limbs and the list goes on). Is that how God intended the baby to be born? No, I don't think so (If you think God wants a child to be born blind, I don't know what to tell you). But this is the fallen world in which we live and have to navigate.

I sure don't have to make a choice to be heterosexual. It is who I am. I also believe some people are born (call it a birth defect if you wish) with same-sex attractions. They don't make a choice in who they are attracted to. Where we all have the choice is what we do in life, how we behave. Just because I am attracted to women other than my wife doesn't mean I have to act on it. The homosexual doesn't have to act on his urges either.

To elaborate, there have been studies conducted by Christians (mental health care professionals) that conclude there are three components to homosexuality. The first is a biological one. This is a predisposition of attraction to the same sex. Let's not kid ourselves, you can take a look at most gay people and know right away they are different. The next is how that person has been raised and their experiences in life (e.g., many homosexual people were sexually abused as children). The last is the person's choice. They can fight their desires or not.

Yes, I believe homosexual behavior is contrary to the divine desire for man. The same holds true for sex outside of marriage for heterosexuals. The Bible's prohibition on both activities is because God doesn't want man to be harmed by the results of such activities. The difference is that the Bible tells men and women to get married and have all the sex they want to (i.e., problem solved for the heterosexual). The homosexual cannot get married to a same sex partner and be pleasing to God, even if that is their sincere desire. That is a pretty hard row to hoe.

To sum it up, some people are born seriously broken and/or get broken early in life. If the Church really wants to help these people (rather than acting like a bunch of judgmental pricks), Christians should gain a proper understanding of the issue instead of what some think they know.

[Combatmedic63]

Think about the reality we know. Babies are born with serious health defects (e.g., blind, missing limbs and the list goes on). Is that how God intended the baby to be born? No, I don't think so (If you think God wants a child to be born blind, I don't know what to tell you). But this is the fallen world in which we live and have to navigate.

I sure don't have to make a choice to be heterosexual. It is who I am. I also believe some people are born (call it a birth defect if you wish) with same-sex attractions. They don't make a choice in who they are attracted to. Where we all have the choice is what we do in life, how we behave. Just because I am attracted to women other than my wife doesn't mean I have to act on it. The homosexual doesn't have to act on his urges either.

To elaborate, there have been studies conducted by Christians (mental health care professionals) that conclude there are three components to homosexuality. The first is a biological one. This is a predisposition of attraction to the same sex. Let's not kid ourselves, you can take a look at most gay people and know right away they are different. The next is how that person has been raised and their experiences in life (e.g., many homosexual people were sexually abused as children). The last is the person's choice. They can fight their desires or not.

Yes, I believe homosexual behavior is contrary to the divine desire for man. The same holds true for sex outside of marriage for heterosexuals. The Bible's prohibition on both activities is because God doesn't want man to be harmed by the results of such activities. The difference is that the Bible tells men and women to get married and have all the sex they want to (i.e., problem solved for the heterosexual). The homosexual cannot get married to a same sex partner and be pleasing to God, even if that is their sincere desire. That is a pretty hard row to hoe.

To sum it up, some people are born seriously broken and/or get broken early in life. If the Church really wants to help these people (rather than acting like a bunch of judgmental pricks), Christians should gain a proper understanding of the issue instead of what some think they know.

What you don't seem to understand or don't want to; this is not what "I" think, this is what the Bible teaches so in either case here is what the Bible says about homosexuality:

Leviticus 18:22-24
22 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.

Leviticus 20:13
KJV
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
ESV
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
NLT
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.


And to answer your question about birth defects, diseases, etc... yes I do believe this is how God intended these folks to be. For one reason is the Garden of Eden when we gave up paradise and a perfect world, and the other reason is that God is infallible, He makes NO MISTAKES!

[Ickisrulz]

What you don't seem to understand or don't want to; this is not what "I" think, this is what the Bible teaches so in either case here is what the Bible says about homosexuality:

Leviticus 18:22-24
22 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.

Leviticus 20:13
KJV
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
ESV
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
NLT
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.


And to answer your question about birth defects, diseases, etc... yes I do believe this is how God intended these folks to be. For one reason is the Garden of Eden when we gave up paradise and a perfect world, and the other reason is that God is infallible, He makes NO MISTAKES!

The first thing to realize is that God forbids certain activities because he loves us and doesn't want us hurt doing certain things. It is not because he is on a power trip getting enjoyment from bossing people around. The Church should do the same. Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it? I don't hear many Christians expounding on the issue. This is where the Church really fails: not explaining the consequences of sin (pick any sin). Christians often do what you did, just quote a bunch of Scripture. It is very ineffective.

Homosexuals are really in a unique situation because their biology pushes them to do something that has no legitimate outlet according to the Bible. I don't believe they can "pray away the gay" anymore than any of us can pray away our own unsavory desires.

As far as birth defects and disease, if you think God selects certain individuals to be blind, etc., you misunderstand how he deals with the human race. It is God's desire that we all be healthy, well fed and live a satisfying life (see Jesus' ministry). However, he is not involved in every decision we make nor does he prevent the bad things that happen to us on a routine basis. Bad things happen to people that God does not want to happen. It doesn't mean he makes mistakes or is imperfect.

[wv109323]

I disagree on the statement that "homosexuals are born that way". I believe that they are. Since the sin of Adam ALL men have been born with a sinful nature. I was born as a murderer, bank robber, cussing, sinful man.
BUT BT GODS GRACE AND MERCY WITH GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GODS WORD, I learned to put away my sinful nature and live as close to Gods instruction manual( the Bible) as I can.
Being brought up in a sinful atmosphere such as child abuse, lack of a father figure or drunken parents fighting allows a thought pattern to dwell on sinful behavior.
I believe that many people committing abominations are demon possessed. As stated, the constant behavior of many homosexuals is different from heterosexuals. How could they constantly act abnormal without a demon.
I thank God that He has shown upon me His Grace and Mercy.
With that said, we Christians are the only light and salt that many sinners will see. And sadly many, many will not come to God and repent.

[wch]

Best idea I have is to ignore them and their calumny and laugh up your sleeve at their whining.

[Combatmedic63]

The first thing to realize is that God forbids certain activities because he loves us and doesn't want us hurt doing certain things. It is not because he is on a power trip getting enjoyment from bossing people around. The Church should do the same. Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it? I don't hear many Christians expounding on the issue. This is where the Church really fails: not explaining the consequences of sin (pick any sin). Christians often do what you did, just quote a bunch of Scripture. It is very ineffective.

Homosexuals are really in a unique situation because their biology pushes them to do something that has no legitimate outlet according to the Bible. I don't believe they can "pray away the gay" anymore than any of us can pray away our own unsavory desires.

As far as birth defects and disease, if you think God selects certain individuals to be blind, etc., you misunderstand how he deals with the human race. It is God's desire that we all be healthy, well fed and live a satisfying life (see Jesus' ministry). However, he is not involved in every decision we make nor does he prevent the bad things that happen to us on a routine basis. Bad things happen to people that God does not want to happen. It doesn't mean he makes mistakes or is imperfect.

Whether or not you don't believe "Scripture" is ineffective means absolutely nothing to me. Scripture is what I live my life around as a Christian. You seem to know everything about God and how he thinks so I guess it's possible that He has shared his thoughts and feelings with you in particular. The rest of us will just have to live the way the Bible tells us to do so.

[Ickisrulz]

Whether or not you don't believe "Scripture" is ineffective means absolutely nothing to me. Scripture is what I live my life around as a Christian. You seem to know everything about God and how he thinks so I guess it's possible that He has shared his thoughts and feelings with you in particular. The rest of us will just have to live the way the Bible tells us to do so.

Scripture is effective, but the way we relate the ideas contained in Scripture to non-believers is of utmost importance. No non-Christian is going to be swayed by throwing a bunch of versus at them (they don't hold the Bible as authoritative). We can, however, convey God's message in understandable language in the least offensive and least combative ways possible. If you do this, you might get somewhere.

God has shared his thoughts and feelings with me. This information is contained within the Bible.

[farmbif]

I guess one good thing is gay people won't be reproducing. any of these issues seem to bring me back to the serenity prayer;
god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.
father, give us courage to change what must be altered,
serenity to accept what cannot be helped,
and the insight to know one from the other.

it took quite a while for me to fully understand and try to live by what's in this prayer.

[JSnover]

Well, the OP felt so strongly about this he never came back.
To answer his question: there's no way to eliminate the promotion and inclusion of gays in the workplace. If he tries it he'll be fired. If the company tries it they'll be sued.
If he can't accept the new normal, he'll be better off finding a new job.
I can accept the whole diversity inclusion thing even though I think it's a crock, what I have a problem with is the forced elevation of a certain class or category of anyone. That's NOT how equity or equality works.
If HalfDog decides to stay at his current job the best he can do is bide his time and play by the rules. On the other hand if he ends up being mistreated or discriminated against because he's not One Of Them, at least he'll have some grounds for a lawsuit if he chooses to try that.

[MT Gianni]

You are wrong I believe, in singling out one sin. Unless you can be 100% sure all of the management of those you work for are perfect beings then you cannot expect some sins to be ignored and others excluded.

As believers we have to love others, but not their behavior. If I were to say anything it would be that inclusion means just that. It doesn't mean to make an exception of in a positive or negative way. I worked with a homosexual who was lazy and not much of a worker. She kept her job because corporate watched to make sure she was not mistreated in any way. There were other heterosexuals who were also lazy and poor workers. They received warnings and were told to change. That when brought out is the way to make inclusion happen, not preventing a sinner from earning a wage.

Unfortunately in todays' atmosphere, speaking out just puts a target on your back that can follow you to the next job and beyond.

[Half Dog]

Well, the OP felt so strongly about this he never came back.

How wrong can one be?

I have been watching the replies. It seems the the majority suggests to accept sin as sin, something we all do and not let one sin overpower my feelings. That will be hard to do. Perhaps this door (job) is closing and another door is opening.

[Thundarstick]

Your not the only one that's been watching this thread with interest. The real problem is that many times "they" want preferential treatment, not equality. I work with all kinds of people who are unrepentant sinners, and some is the sin of homosexuality. The vast majority of homosexuals I have and do work with are not "in your face" with it, and it's a non issue as far as work goes.

As far as my beliefs go. I'm not an "in your face" Christian. I look for the rite time to share my faith, but force it on no one. I accept that I live in a fallen world full of sin and corruption, and I need to let my light shine, or rather Christ light shine through me. I don't have, and shouldn't, be a partaker in anyone's sin to work and make a living. Now if my employer where to require I participate in a gay promotional event or face reprimand or replacement, I'd have a serious choice to make!

I suppose some sins are worse than others and carry worse consequences here on earth, but in the end ALL unrepentant, unforgiven sins end in separation from God!

[Combatmedic63]

The first thing to realize is that God forbids certain activities because he loves us and doesn't want us hurt doing certain things. It is not because he is on a power trip getting enjoyment from bossing people around. The Church should do the same. Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it? I don't hear many Christians expounding on the issue. This is where the Church really fails: not explaining the consequences of sin (pick any sin). Christians often do what you did, just quote a bunch of Scripture. It is very ineffective.

Homosexuals are really in a unique situation because their biology pushes them to do something that has no legitimate outlet according to the Bible. I don't believe they can "pray away the gay" anymore than any of us can pray away our own unsavory desires.

As far as birth defects and disease, if you think God selects certain individuals to be blind, etc., you misunderstand how he deals with the human race. It is God's desire that we all be healthy, well fed and live a satisfying life (see Jesus' ministry). However, he is not involved in every decision we make nor does he prevent the bad things that happen to us on a routine basis. Bad things happen to people that God does not want to happen. It doesn't mean he makes mistakes or is imperfect.


I've given the statement above quite a bit of thought and what I have to say about is this: You say:"Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it?." The Bible also says to not steal, commit murder, adultery, etc... So according to your way of thinking; all these things aren't bad just because the Bible says to not do them. Murder is not bad, stealing is not bad, adultery is not bad; I say you are completely off base and have no clue.

As far as your last paragraph about birth defects and such, God has had every moment in time planned out long before we were here. Oh, we have free will to make our own choices after birth, but the Bible states that God knew us even before we were even thought of, therefore He did make us exactly how he wanted each of us to be. What you don't seem to understand is that God uses all of these things good or bad for His ultimate plan which we can't even begin to comprehend. I have had many a handicapped person touch my life in ways that would have never happened had they not been handicapped. These people who are born with defects are an inspiration as long as they don't sit around and have a "Oh feel sorry for me" attitude. Just think of all the handicapped folks who have made a huge impact on this world in science, music, mathematics, etc... Yes, God has had all of this planned before the beginning of time. Sorry to disappoint you and your theories.

[JSnover]

How wrong can one be?

I have been watching the replies. It seems the the majority suggests to accept sin as sin, something we all do and not let one sin overpower my feelings. That will be hard to do. Perhaps this door (job) is closing and another door is opening.

You are correct.
Concern yourself more with the way you live and if your current job is unacceptable for any reason, it is time to leave.
God may have been able to save the world, but only if the world wanted to be saved and as you can see, a lot of 'the world' doesn't want anyone's help. Likewise, God never intended for you to save the world, only to help people who are interested in being helped.
If a co-worker seeks Christ, help him or her find Him. If you feel the company is on a path to Damnation or that they would set you on that path, it's time to leave.
Best of luck to luck to you.

[Thundarstick]

I've given the statement above quite a bit of thought and what I have to say about is this: You say:"Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it?." The Bible also says to not steal, commit murder, adultery, etc... So according to your way of thinking; all these things aren't bad just because the Bible says to not do them. Murder is not bad, stealing is not bad, adultery is not bad; I say you are completely off base and have no clue.

As far as your last paragraph about birth defects and such, God has had every moment in time planned out long before we were here. Oh, we have free will to make our own choices after birth, but the Bible states that God knew us even before we were even thought of, therefore He did make us exactly how he wanted each of us to be. What you don't seem to understand is that God uses all of these things good or bad for His ultimate plan which we can't even begin to comprehend. I have had many a handicapped person touch my life in ways that would have never happened had they not been handicapped. These people who are born with defects are an inspiration as long as they don't sit around and have a "Oh feel sorry for me" attitude. Just think of all the handicapped folks who have made a huge impact on this world in science, music, mathematics, etc... Yes, God has had all of this planned before the beginning of time. Sorry to disappoint you and your theories.

I'm thinking you missed the point of the question.

[44MAG#1]

I thought sin is sin, is sin, is sin ,is sin.
So now I know that when we sin against God we would be better off sinning with a "Little Sin" than a "Big Sin"
So has anyone committed a "Big Sin" today?

[Ickisrulz]

I've given the statement above quite a bit of thought and what I have to say about is this: You say:"Can you explain why homosexual behavior is bad, apart from the fact that the Bible says do not do it?." The Bible also says to not steal, commit murder, adultery, etc... So according to your way of thinking; all these things aren't bad just because the Bible says to not do them. Murder is not bad, stealing is not bad, adultery is not bad; I say you are completely off base and have no clue.

As far as your last paragraph about birth defects and such, God has had every moment in time planned out long before we were here. Oh, we have free will to make our own choices after birth, but the Bible states that God knew us even before we were even thought of, therefore He did make us exactly how he wanted each of us to be. What you don't seem to understand is that God uses all of these things good or bad for His ultimate plan which we can't even begin to comprehend. I have had many a handicapped person touch my life in ways that would have never happened had they not been handicapped. These people who are born with defects are an inspiration as long as they don't sit around and have a "Oh feel sorry for me" attitude. Just think of all the handicapped folks who have made a huge impact on this world in science, music, mathematics, etc... Yes, God has had all of this planned before the beginning of time. Sorry to disappoint you and your theories.

When you a talking to an unbeliever, you will not get very far quoting scripture and declaring something is wrong because God says so in the Bible. These people do not think of the Bible as being authoritative. It is important to communicate on their level, while still using biblical teachings. I don't think you'd need to explain why stealing or murder is wrong to most people. But when it comes to the issue of homosexuality, you had better have an idea of why God said to not engage in such activities as many do not see it being harmful.

Have you noticed that not many Christians are looking out for the sinners when it comes to denouncing homosexuality? I never hear Christians say, "Boy, I sure wish people would not engage in homosexual behavior because I don't want to see them living an unhappy and dangerous life." Nope, Christians speak out against homosexuality because it is a sin that is foreign to them and they don't like the idea that society is pushing for acceptance (and they don't want to be told what to do).

The Christians that get taken to court because they refuse to make a cake or take pictures at a gay wedding are making a mistake in my opinion. Where is the biblical authority for refusing to do business with a sinner? Should a Christian plumber refuse to unclog a toilet in a home owned by a gay couple? These types of unnecessary conflicts make the Church look mean and judgemental.

Jesus and Paul both offered the message of God's love before demanding anything from God's followers. Many Christians demand sanctification before conceding a practitioner of certain sins can saved. This is not God's way.

If you truly feel that God selects some people for terrible handicaps or experiences in life just to motivate or touch the rest of us....I don't know what to say. That is not the biblical picture of God or how he deals with humanity. First off, he is not mean like that. Secondly, just because he can control everything, doesn't mean he does.

[Combatmedic63]

When you a talking to an unbeliever, you will not get very far quoting scripture and declaring something is wrong because God says so in the Bible. These people do not think of the Bible as being authoritative. It is important to communicate on their level, while still using biblical teachings. I don't think you'd need to explain why stealing or murder is wrong to most people. But when it comes to the issue of homosexuality, you had better have an idea of why God said to not engage in such activities as many do not see it being harmful.

Have you noticed that not many Christians are looking out for the sinners when it comes to denouncing homosexuality? I never hear Christians say, "Boy, I sure wish people would not engage in homosexual behavior because I don't want to see them living an unhappy and dangerous life." Nope, Christians speak out against homosexuality because it is a sin that is foreign to them and they don't like the idea that society is pushing for acceptance (and they don't want to be told what to do).

The Christians that get taken to court because they refuse to make a cake or take pictures at a gay wedding are making a mistake in my opinion. Where is the biblical authority for refusing to do business with a sinner? Should a Christian plumber refuse to unclog a toilet in a home owned by a gay couple? These types of unnecessary conflicts make the Church look mean and judgemental.

Jesus and Paul both offered the message of God's love before demanding anything from God's followers. Many Christians demand sanctification before conceding a practitioner of certain sins can saved. This is not God's way.

If you truly feel that God selects some people for terrible handicaps or experiences in life just to motivate or touch the rest of us....I don't know what to say. That is not the biblical picture of God or how he deals with humanity. First off, he is not mean like that. Secondly, just because he can control everything, doesn't mean he does.

HIV/AIDS is why it is dangerous.

[Thundarstick]

Studies point out that domestic violence and mental illness are highest among homosexual partners as well.

[44MAG#1]

So, from all this Is "SIN" the "Downfall" of man or is just the "SIN" of homosexuality the downfall of man?
"SIN" of all kinds is wrong or are we just pinpointing one "SIN" to take the heat off the other "SINS"?
The clever use of deflection maybe.

[Thundarstick]

So, from all this Is "SIN" the "Downfall" of man or is just the "SIN" of homosexuality the downfall of man?
"SIN" of all kinds is wrong or are we just pinpointing one "SIN" to take the heat off the other "SINS"?
The clever use of deflection maybe.

You are correct that ALL SIN is an affront to God, and yes we are guilty of ignoring the stick in our eye, to see the splinter in others eye. Soooooooo, how do you reach someone practicing homosexuality that doesn't believe the scriptures?
I was talking with a young lady I work with who was raised a Christian, claims Christ herself, but was living with her boyfriend. I said, "I know you know what's in the Bible. Don't you realize there are no blessings in fornication?". Today she has a child that has no committed father, and doesn't carry his name. Do we treat her, the boyfriend, and the child with disdain, or show love and mercy? Which way do you think would have the greater chance of having these folks form into a family with God in it? How much more difficult is it to reach people who have no regard for God's word, if Christians only show disdain?

[44MAG#1]

Christians can be their worst enemy. How do you teach anyone that chooses not to believe the Scriptures about the Word of God and OUR sins, since WE ALL SIN, not just THEIR sin?
Or are we cherry picking SIN just to make our sinful selves feel better?

[Don Purcell]

"Equality is the cry of the inferior"

[44MAG#1]

I guess the imperfect ones are inferior.
Happy for the perfect ones that are so abundant in this world.