Traded into a gem, 1894 Win. .32 special made in 1899!

[koger]

I am a sucker for a neat old lever or single shot rifle, any caliber. I ran across this one in a gunshop the other day, and traded for it. It is a 94 Winchester in .32 Special caliber, with a 26" octagonal barrel. The receiver is mostly bare or patina, with no rust,and the barrel is bluish, turning plum and patina, and has a full length mag tube. The rifle is tight and smooth in operation, when I oiled it up, was dry as a bone. It has a very long forearm, and both it and the stock is in very good condition. The deal maker, was the bright bore, with crisp rifling in very good condition. It has original rear sight, Win. buckhorn and a brass bead front. The rear sight is very long, matching the long forearm I guess. It also has the tang tapped for a peep sight, and I have a Marlbes to fit it. Waiting on a sizing die to get here, so I can size down some .325 Mauser bullets to .322 to load for it. The barrel is slim, and the whole gun is a natural pointer, really hangs well when holding it on target off hand. If it shoots great, I will keep it, if not, may send it to JES to become a .38/55, either way cant loose. Just thought I would share, may get TBG to post some pics for me tomorrow.

[cwtebay]

Does it have a smokeless sight? I've never seen one from the 19th century. I always thought they 32 WS was created after the turn of the century.

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[veeman]

I thought the 32 Special didn't come out till 1902, according to Wikipedia.

[koger]

I ran the #'s on a Winchester date sight, might have been barreled somewhere along the way, all they would have to change is the barrel from a 30/30.

[Markopolo]

i dont see no pics??? watts it look like?

[Shawlerbrook]

When the Winchester’s were rebarreled by the factory, they stamped a “P” on the barrel. I have a 1906 vintage 25 35 SRC that was factory rebarreled.

[Drm50]

I think Win 32 was never factory loaded with BP. It was made for people who wanted to reload with BP because smokeless was new and some didn’t like it. I guess they did it so 30/30s wouldn’t be loaded with BP and give them bad rep.
I bought a Marlin a while back. Nice saddle ring carbine, oct barrel. 32/40. Bought dies, brass and bullets. Couldn’t wait to shoot it. My loads were no good. Come to find out it had been chambered to 32 Win. It shot good but I took it back, paid good dollar for 32/40.

[Randy Bohannon]

Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.

[17nut]

Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.

NO!
The 30-30 was designed for smokeless from the start in 1895.
It used 30 grains of smokeless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-30_Winchester
It was called the .30WCF but Marlin hated to add Winchesters name onto their rifles so they coined the 30-30.

[Eddie Southgate]

October 1901 is said to be the date for the first .32 Specials so it is re barreled . I'd leave it a .32 Special if it were mine . The Special is a great shooting cartridge and I don't see enough advantage between it and the 38-55 to spend the dollars to change it . I have both a 94 in .32 WS and an 1885 in 38-55 .
I am gonna re bore a 1970's 94 to 38-55 from 30-30 since I have several in that caliber and none in 38-55. Wouldn't do it to a vintage gun even one that was not original . Get a Cody letter before you do anything to it . It's not impossible that that rifle could have been in stock at the factory for a couple of years and factory re barreled before being shipped to fill an order for a .32 Special .

[cwtebay]

Drm50 is correct, the 32-40 was the pre eminent small bore cartridge of its day and Winchester like many others chambered lots of rifles in 32-40 and had lots of barrels around for the 32-40 . It’s no brainer to make a reamer for a 32 cal that fits 30-30 brass, 30-30 was originally designed for 30 grs of b/p while new steel and new smokeless powders came at the same time so b/p was dropped the name stayed.
Early 32 Specials had a reversible elevator for the rear sight one side for b/p and the other for smokeless and were so marked. These are the rarest of the 94’s that still have their reversible elevators and were made with the Winchester “Nickel Steel” unlike all other 32-40’s up to that date that were for b/p. Reloading for the new fangled smokeless Winchester knew they had to provide an alternative in the 94 that could be reloaded. New smokeless powder wasn’t going to be readily available with data . 30-30 was factory ammo only deal for sometime before being accepted and components available. .32 Special is the better of the two cartridges for all practical purposes.30-30 was never loaded with b/p as it’s name suggest for previous cartridges, 30 grns. of b/p .30 cal bullet was never factory offered, it’s a fast twist with deep rifling for jacked bulllets going fast. I am not sure if . 32 Special was not offered in b/p it would be interesting to know. Probably not because those 32-40 shooters already had what was needed to reload with b/p.I believe that the 30WCF was the first commercial cartridge designed exclusively for smokeless powder. The 30-30 designation came from other firearms manufacturers that were loathe to put any reference to Winchester on their rifles. While I understand that the 30 WCF can be loaded with black powder, it was never an intent originally.

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[Tar Heel]

I would leave it as a 32WCF. The cartridge is great, it's easy to load for, and brass can be made from 30-30 brass. The 38-55 is a lot harder to load for, brass (right now) is impossible to get, sizing dies and reloading dies are non-existent right now and are at the bottom of the list for restock due to focus on more popular calibers. Why mess with a good thing?

[garandsrus]

The only advantage to a 30-30 over 32 Spec is that a lot more molds are available in 30 cal vs 32 cal.

[Char-Gar]

I didn't see it mentioned, but the 32 WS has a 1-16 twist barrel, making it VERY cast bullet friendly. They are wonderful rifles for the cast bullet guy.

[OverMax]

Have a 1894 long barrel in 32-40 and a few carbines in 32 spec. Only difference I could notice on the early original 30wcf was they are engraved Nickel Steel w/faster twist. 32 special was not. Just ordinary gun steel of the time w/slower twist for B/P and smokeless use. Was thinking of a Jess 38-55 re-bore for my long barrel but I have so many 32 specials I didn't want to get into 35cal. And still don't. 32-40 is around 3/16s short brass of a 38-55. Although 32-40 will target about the same. Long barrels I have see little to no use. Carbines 30 wcf and 32s get paper patched for 100 yrd target shooting. My primary hunting guns. 270 win Rem Mtn and 300 savage carbine. Ones for above ground enclosed stand use the other having original barrel sights. That one for quick snap shots in the bush.

[koger]

I have sent pics to TBG. It is stamped nickel steel for smokeless powder loads. I am waiting on a mold and sizing die, everything else is ready to go. The bore is very good so am waiting to get some loads together and shoot it. I have a Marbles tang sight to fit it and stretch its legs out.

[Texas by God]

That's a great looking rifle, sir.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/b66c1112c803d30ee446d553a7fb5a09.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/4928c2905fdff3d11656a53370dfc165.jpg284046284047

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[NEKVT]

Wow! Wouldn't be thinking about doing anything with that rifle but shoot it?

[Markopolo]

I didn't see it mentioned, but the 32 WS has a 1-16 twist barrel, making it VERY cast bullet friendly. They are wonderful rifles for the cast bullet guy.

this!!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 32 Special is probably the best of the cast bullet calibers for most purposes in the lever guns. Its 1-16 twist works well with flat-nosed bullets up to 200 grains, stable well past 200 yards, have not tried heavier. I do .323 boolits in my Marlin's. Contrary to gun writer blather it does hit harder than the 30-30. I do not see much advantage in going to the 38-55 for most purposes. The Hornady gummi-tip 165 and the Speer flatnose 170 have very similar Ballistic Coefficients and Leverevoltion powder can get you over 2300 fps. I've shot a deer, a few pronghorn and a cow elk with my Marlin 32's. Starline is making good 32 Special brass with a rim closer to SAAMI max, improving cartridge headspacing for better/ more consistent performace. Looks and sounds like a really SPECIAL rifle.

[veeman]

The 38-55 is a lot harder to load for, brass (right now) is impossible to get,

Don't understand why people keep saying thing's like this. Go to gunbroker and you will find lot's and lots of brass, and dies on ebay. One just has to want to look for it and pay for it, but it's easy to find.

[farmbif]

one thing that I've found my 32 win spl is the RCBS 32-170 is the only mold needed and works great. ive seen previous post referring to 32wcf which is a completely different cartridge.

[dverna]

Of course you should do as you wish....but I would keep it as is. Char-gar made an excellent point in his post.

If you want a .38/55, getting a newer .30/30 and reboring it is an option. Rifles like you have are less common and to be treasured.

[richhodg66]

I would leave it as a 32WCF. The cartridge is great, it's easy to load for, and brass can be made from 30-30 brass. The 38-55 is a lot harder to load for, brass (right now) is impossible to get, sizing dies and reloading dies are non-existent right now and are at the bottom of the list for restock due to focus on more popular calibers. Why mess with a good thing?

I agree with leaving it as is, but I load for both .32 Special and .38-55 and the .38-55 is the easiest cartridge to load for there is, especially if you want to use plain based bullets. Not sure where you're getting that from. Brass for everything seems hard to get right now, I bought all mine for both before the run on comoponents, so I wouldn't know, but .38-55 was a standard thing from Star Line not long ago.

[koger]

Guys, I appreciate the replies, but get a grip. I said if worst comes to worst, maybe making it a 38/55. I dont really expect that to be an issue, as the bore looks so good. I already have a JES 336 Marlin rebore to 38/55, and a Winchester Hi Wall in 38/55. I like the .32 special and hope to have it shooting in a couple of days. I have dies, brass, and a sizing die and mold on the way, we will get her up and running shortly and give you a follow up report.

[cwtebay]

Guys, I appreciate the replies, but get a grip. I said if worst comes to worst, maybe making it a 38/55. I dont really expect that to be an issue, as the bore looks so good. I already have a JES 336 Marlin rebore to 38/55, and a Winchester Hi Wall in 38/55. I like the .32 special and hope to have it shooting in a couple of days. I have dies, brass, and a sizing die and mold on the way, we will get her up and running shortly and give you a follow up report.I would like to say congratulations on your beautiful rifle!!! Dang it looks nice!!! I hope you have a chance to shoot the tar out of it!
There was a post a while ago about 30 WCF brass longevity - I have to admit that I got 200 pieces with my 32 WS and I believe I'm short around 5 at this point (lost). It has been remarkable how the brass lasts, and how idiot proof accuracy has been. My oldest son has claimed that one for whitetails, and I can't say he made a poor choice.
I truly regret not purchasing the Lyman 321265 HP mould when I purchased a 1907 1894 eastern carbine in 32 Special. The seller had it and even included a batch of bullets cast / sized / lubed from it. Those bullets are made for that carbine. Alas, I didn't have the budget for it at the moment. I believe that I have 20 left....I use them only for hunting at this point!!!

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[Tar Heel]

Don't understand why people keep saying thing's like this. Go to gunbroker and you will find lot's and lots of brass, and dies on ebay. One just has to want to look for it and pay for it, but it's easy to find.

Because I and others do not feel like getting RIPPED OFF by people trying to take advantage of current manufacturing shortages. I am not swimming in money. Perhaps others may wish to pay 2 to 3 times what the merchandise is worth, I am not.

You want brass? I have it. For you it's $400 per 50. Still interested? Am I ripping you off? Yes. But it's here!

[hondo1892]

I've shot deer with my 32 WS carbine using boolits and Speer jacketed and they go down just as fast using either. I seen another Winchester carbine made in the 1950's the other day and have been thinking about getting it for my grandson.

[veeman]

No need to get upset, you said it was impossible to find. I looked, and it was easy to find. simple as that. To be honest, I didn't even look at the prices. No offense meant.

[koger]

I sized some 170g 8mm .325 down to .323 today, that I had powdercoated and some uncoated. I loaded them up and shot them at 100 yds. It surprised me by showing a preference for the PC slugs. It shot around 2.5" with the PC and some 170g Jacketed factory ammo, and about 3.5" with lubed and sized slugs. I was using 11 gr of Unique. To be honest, it would be hard to shoot much better with the current sights, as the big shear bead covers up about 3.5" at 100 yds. I shot some 6x6" clangers I had out at 130 and 150 yds, no problem ringing them. I am a happy camper.

[cwtebay]

I sized some 170g 8mm .325 down to .323 today, that I had powdercoated and some uncoated. I loaded them up and shot them at 100 yds. It surprised me by showing a preference for the PC slugs. It shot around 2.5" with the PC and some 170g Jacketed factory ammo, and about 3.5" with lubed and sized slugs. I was using 11 gr of Unique. To be honest, it would be hard to shoot much better with the current sights, as the big shear bead covers up about 3.5" at 100 yds. I shot some 6x6" clangers I had out at 130 and 150 yds, no problem ringing them. I am a happy camper.Awesome!!!!! I'm glad to hear that you have a shooter out of that good looking rifle!!

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[cwtebay]

I would leave it as a 32WCF. The cartridge is great, it's easy to load for, and brass can be made from 30-30 brass. The 38-55 is a lot harder to load for, brass (right now) is impossible to get, sizing dies and reloading dies are non-existent right now and are at the bottom of the list for restock due to focus on more popular calibers. Why mess with a good thing?According to the OP, it's chambered in 32 Winchester Special. I don't think I have ever heard of an 1894 chambered for 32-20 (32 WCF).

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[Eddie Southgate]

That is a nice rifle , glad it shoots as good as it looks .

[Pioneer2]

According to the OP, it's chambered in 32 Winchester Special. I don't think I have ever heard of an 1894 chambered for 32-20 (32 WCF).

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That would be a 1892 in 32-20

[cwtebay]

That would be a 1892 in 32-20Yep

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[Beaver Scout]

You can always contact the Cody firearms museum and give them serial numbers and they'll be able to tell you what it came with and if it was sent back to be re-barreled. This page here is an accurate page for inputting serial numbers https://winchestercollector.org/dates/

[Jim22]

I remember when I was a kid the story was that .32 specials would get worn bores and start keyholing boolits. .30-30 never did. Any truth to that?

[cwtebay]

Interesting Jim22. Wonder if I that's a result of using black powder and not understanding what needs to be done after shooting?

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[eastbank]

i have two 32 specials, a winchester 94 saddelring carbine a winchester 64 rifle. both shoot well, but i prefer the model 64.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Some of the early lots of 32 Special factory ammo had undersize .318 bullets, leading to the concerns about accuracy. Its 1-16 twist makes it a better cast boolit rifle than the 30-30, with bullets that fit. I have gotten excellent accuracy with Flatnose bullets up to 200 grains at 200 yards without stabilization issues and modest velocities. Remember, 32-40 was a 200 yard target rifle with 200 grain bullets using black powder around the turn of the century. Winchester was already tooled up for the 32-40 so the 32 Special was not a big stretch.

[DBN]

Interesting Jim22. Wonder if I that's a result of using black powder and not understanding what needs to be done after shooting?

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Thats right. My 94 needs .326 with cast.

[OverMax]

Shooting such old school cartridges (38-55 or 32 special) keeps a fellow from getting >bored.