Desperado 11" double barrel 12 GA pistol

[CTI1USNRET]

My newest toy just arrived (several weeks ahead of schedule): an American Gun Craft 11", black powder, muzzleloader, double barrel 12 GA pistol. It uses 209 shotgun primers.

I'm thinking about getting or making a shoulder stock because this thing is hefty - really HEFTY (4.6 lb). The cylinder barrels are simply parallel holes drilled in a bar of steel. It has a single trigger and there's a lever on the hammer to choose the barrel. The grip and foregrip are rubber. It came with a ramrod. The primer pockets are in the breech plugs which are removed with a 3/8 inch socket wrench for cleaning.

283929

[pietro]

.

IMO, that's pretty neat - a nice Howda ya do..... :)

[lar45]

I wish they'd make one in 50-70..

[Ithaca Gunner]

I'm just waiting for a range report.

[lar45]

Wes Farms from 7X Leather makes a nice holster for them. www.7xleather.com
He made one for my 70 cal Howdah that turned out great.

[toot]

so is it a HOWDAH pistol, or just a DBL. pistol?

[Half Dog]

That is awesome. I too look forward to seeing your range report.

[marlin39a]

I’m following this thread. I’ve always liked the Diablo, but the Desperado really lights me up. I’m ordering mine this week. Keep us informed on yours.

[waksupi]

It is not a good idea to remove nipples on cap locks. It will cause thread wear, and they will not seat properly after much use.

[CTI1USNRET]

I wish they'd make one in 50-70..

It's a muzzleloader.

[CTI1USNRET]

It is not a good idea to remove nipples on cap locks. It will cause thread wear, and they will not seat properly after much use.

That's not true. The best way to clean a cap lock long gun is to remove the nipple, put the breech into a bucket of hot, soapy water and pump water in and out of the gun through the drum.

The Desperado is an inline muzzleloader. The 209 shotshell primer pockets are built into the breech plugs.

284430

[marlin39a]

How long after ordering to get delivery? How is the fit and finish? I see 8” and 11” as options, but I will get the 11”.

[CTI1USNRET]

How long after ordering to get delivery? How is the fit and finish? I see 8” and 11” as options, but I will get the 11”.

I ordered on 5/15 and received it 6/2, which was WAY before I expected it.

It's a quality gun. Solid. Looks good.

I contacted AGC to tell them how pleased I am and to suggest making a shoulder stock for it.

[shooter bob]

Cti1usnret have you had a chance to fire this thing yet?I am thinking hard about one of these critters. I would like to know how well it shoots for you .Thanks Bob

[CTI1USNRET]

Today I went out to the club to chrono my Desperado with patched balls. BUT damn it ! I forgot to put the primers in my bag ! The trip wasn't a total loss, I keep it loaded for house and car defense and I fired those two 00 buck loads at 7 paces from a rest. Group sizes for both barrels were about 3 inches and at POA. I was very pleased. Even with the weight of the gun the recoil was moderate.

My load:
75 gr FFFg
1/8" 12 gauge nitro card
1/2" 12 gauge cushion wad lubed with Crisco
9 pellets of 00 buck (485 gr total) wrapped in copy paper folded over at both ends, or a patched round ball. I use a mandrel and a glue stick to form the wrap.
10 gauge overshot card

Cards and wads from Track of the Wolf.

I've only got twenty-four 209 primers left. But I have hundreds of primed 12 GA hulls from which I can scavenge primers.

Maybe I'll go out again tomorrow. The range is 30 mins away.

[lar45]

It's a muzzleloader.
Yes I am aware, but wouldn't it be great to have a centerfire in 50-70?

[Dak47]

Nice and Congrats! Looked them, at that price point I may just go down that rabbit hole, looks like a fun, handy rig…

[Buzzard II]

That's not true. The best way to clean a cap lock long gun is to remove the nipple, put the breech into a bucket of hot, soapy water and pump water in and out of the gun through the drum.

The Desperado is an inline muzzleloader. The 209 shotshell primer pockets are built into the breech plugs.

284430

I would only use tepid (tap) water to clean the barrels. I would also use never seize on the breech plugs. Hot soapy water causes flash rust and without never seize on the threads you may never get the breech plugs out. Don't over tighten them either. To clean the fouling while shooting I use Ballistol mixed with water. This method on T/C muzzle loaders and Remington 1858 Zouave. Good shooting.

[waksupi]

That's not true. The best way to clean a cap lock long gun is to remove the nipple, put the breech into a bucket of hot, soapy water and pump water in and out of the gun through the drum.

The Desperado is an inline muzzleloader. The 209 shotshell primer pockets are built into the breech plugs.

284430

Okay, I've only been shooting them for 47 years, and building them for 40 years. Nipples should only be removed once a year for inspection and lubing.

[Edward]

Okay, I've only been shooting them for 47 years, and building them for 40 years. Nipples should only be removed once a year for inspection and lubing.

You haven"t built inlines then , as mine (ALL) get removed and like the OP showed match's what the manufactures say (not suggest) for long rifles you are certainly correct/Ed

[Ithaca Gunner]

waksupi, I know you know your stuff and I respect you for all your knowledge accumulated in your lifetime of shooting and building muzzle-loaders, but I can't agree with your statement of not removing nipples every time the gun is shot to clean the channel. Some guys remove the barrel, submerge it in water and pump the cleaning rod in and out to remove the fouling in the channel, but it's just not practical with today's tiny flash hole nipples. I use them in all my percussion guns, original or re-pop. They prevent a lot of blow-back and nasty stuff from accumulating on the wood and bolster with their tiny choked lower flash hole, but don't behave very nice when it comes to having water flushed through them. The old large hole nipples, okay, you could flush them pretty good without removing them, but not these new choked ones. They really should to be removed for cleaning, lubrication, and inspection each time they're shot in my opinion.

[megasupermagnum]

As far as I'm concerned, a nipple or breech plug removed only once a year is a non-removable item. Every one of mine is removed every single time. Cap and ball, pistol, rifle, or shotgun. I've tried not removing the nipples. The result is that they are extremely hard to remove. If you take them out every time, you don't even need anti-seize.

The best part waksupi, you are right. Anyone who removes nipples to clean is also correct. I'm well convinced by this point that there is more than one way to clean a gun, and all methods providing what that person wants.

[CTI1USNRET]

I've always saved my shotgun shells for use in my coach gun. But now I'm keeping the 209 primers and will try to reuse them.

There are several videos on YouTube "Reload 209 Shotgun Primers" showing how to take the primers apart and reload them with cap gun caps together with match tip powder or Armstrong mixture. I might try just using Prime-All since I already use it to make percussion caps.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I seem to remember a time when they sold the actual primers and tool to reload 209's, or battery cup primers as they called them, or maybe I'm slipping into senility getting things mixed up.

[725]

Eager to hear an extensive range report. What a hoot to have around.

[2152hq]

I seem to remember a time when they sold the actual primers and tool to reload 209's, or battery cup primers as they called them, or maybe I'm slipping into senility getting things mixed up.

You are not slipping!
There used to be a small 'press' available to reloaders that punched the primer itself out of the 'battery cup' portion of the shotshell primer.
You also saved the flat anvil piece that was inside the assembly.
Then 'reloaded' the assembly with a fresh primer using the old battery cup and old anvil.

The primers look just like a LR primer but w/o any LR type anvil down inside them,,none needed as the shotshell primer usesreuses that spade type flat anvil.

I still have some of the primers. Mine are CCI and I think they are #200M size but I could be mistaken on that.

Most primer mfg made the specialty primers for reloaders though the idea kind of faded away by the mid 60's.

In older back issues of GunDigest, from the 50's where they listed and showed the reloading tools and components of the day, you can see the small press at times and the special primers listed.

[usedtobeyoung]

Thanks for the pics, I'm thinking about ordering one myself. I can't wait for a more detailed range report, and more pics of course, lol!

[Gtrubicon]

Man that thing is awesome! How long can this be left loaded before you start to worry about the load not working or the black powder corroding the chambers?

[CTI1USNRET]

...How long can this be left loaded before you start to worry about the load not working or the black powder corroding the chambers?

Unless the gun is kept in a very humid environment it will not corrode. Dry powder is not corrosive. Some guns have been been fired after being loaded for over a hundred years. Upon inspection of the bore there was no corrosion.

Most houses are very very very dry, especially if you use A/C or a heater that blows hot air. That's why many people get the sniffles and runny eyes when in an air conditioned environment. It dries and irritates your mucus membranes so your body compensates. I learned about it when I was a Navy weather guesser in San Diego in the mid 70's and experienced my first hot and dry Santa Ana wind. The relative humidity got down to 10% and everyone was suffering.

[mulefour]

My 8" Desperado got here last week, I think it only took about 5 weeks to get here. Now I just need to find time to get it out.

[Skipper]

I just got my 8" Desperado 20 ga about a week ago. After playing around with it, I also ordered the larger rubber grip to go with it.
Got 2 bags of 20 ga slugs from Fury Bullets in the mail today.
https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/209/shotgun-slugs
I'm going to try to wring it out tomorrow before it gets way too hot.
:D

Note...received the grip today. This is not soft and it's the same grip that's already on the 8" Desperado when you by it.

[CTI1USNRET]

Man that thing is awesome! How long can this be left loaded before you start to worry about the load not working or the black powder corroding the chambers?

I think about the same thing and even though I know it's not necessary I shoot it every few weeks. I took it out today after loading it 3 weeks ago. It's my bedside gun (along with a 1911). Both barrels went BOOM. Man ! It's a handfull ! I upped my load to 85 gr FFFg and 27 pellets of #4 buckshot and changed how I wrap the load. I use 28 lb copy paper wrapped twice around a .710 mandrel, folded at both ends and held together with Elmer's glue stick. It patterns nicely at indoor distances. 1/8" nitro card, 1/2" fiber cushion wad, another 1/8 nitro card as an overshot card. The recoil is brutal and I don't want the 2nd load to get dislodged. I use a padded velcro strap wrapped around the barrel and my support hand. Without the strap I lose my grip on it.

Later in the day I cast 220 pellets of 00 buckshot using: a Lee Pro 4-20, high capacity, bottom pour, electric melting pot, a .330" buckshot mold from Marty's Arms, and ingots made with range scrap. Then I spent some time cutting the balls off the sprues with IGAN-P6 Wire Flush Cutters I bought at Amazon. They are very sharp and snip through the lead easily.

[CTI1USNRET]

Any range reports from the guys who said they had a Desperado on order? What's your load?

And, if you like the idea, contact AGC and ask them to make a shoulder stock for it. info@americanguncraft.com

[freakonaleash]

You people are nuts. What in the hell would you use that thing for? YIKES!

[CTI1USNRET]

You people are nuts. What in the hell would you use that thing for? YIKES!

It's on my bedside table, and, it's my truck gun. Compact, maneuverable, POWER.

[CTI1USNRET]

From the day I received my 11" Desperado I've wanted a shoulder stock for it.

Today (4/1/22) in response to my latest email request, American Gun Craft replied,
"Shoulder stocks are in the works, please check the website in 3-4 months for updates."

[indian joe]

You people are nuts. What in the hell would you use that thing for? YIKES!

Even if you miss the burglar, the fear factor with this cannon would be awesome, those creeps will be blinded by the ten foot muzzle flash, choked half to death by the smoke (imagine lighting off 170 grains of black in a 12 foot bedroom), deaf as a post from the noise of it, just need to watch out you proly set fire to the house in the process:bigsmyl2:

[indian joe]

You haven"t built inlines then , as mine (ALL) get removed and like the OP showed match's what the manufactures say (not suggest) for long rifles you are certainly correct/Ed

I am curious here ----so I hear you guys are allowed to have an 11inch barrel pistol but if you cut a shotgun down to the same length you go to jail ?? makes no sense but that dont have any effect on legislators.........

[Edward]

I am curious here ----so I hear you guys are allowed to have an 11inch barrel pistol but if you cut a shotgun down to the same length you go to jail ?? makes no sense but that dont have any effect on legislators.........

Cause in most states BP guns are not considered firearms ! And that's a good thing/Ed

[Richard66]

If it is manufactured as a pistol length it is legal in any caliber or gauge even modern pistol or rifle calibers but if manufactured as long gun must be at lest 18 inches barrel if cut shorter it becomes illegal

[longbow]

I would love to have one... or two of those but in Canada they are considered firearms and suffer the same restrictions as as all handguns here so only legal to shoot at a registered range or on private property. Not legal to carry or shoot anywhere else.

My purposes for it would be fun and to carry for bear protection.

Longbow

[indian joe]

If it is manufactured as a pistol length it is legal in any caliber or gauge even modern pistol or rifle calibers but if manufactured as long gun must be at lest 18 inches barrel if cut shorter it becomes illegal

yep thats what I thought - dont make sense - but again makin sense is not something that bothers legislators.

[indian joe]

I would love to have one... or two of those but in Canada they are considered firearms and suffer the same restrictions as as all handguns here so only legal to shoot at a registered range or on private property. Not legal to carry or shoot anywhere else.

My purposes for it would be fun and to carry for bear protection.

Longbow

most Aussies even worse than that, can only shoot it at a designated pistol range as a member of a club.

[John Taylor]

I wish they'd make one in 50-70..

You can install liners in the bore.

[John Taylor]

I am curious here ----so I hear you guys are allowed to have an 11inch barrel pistol but if you cut a shotgun down to the same length you go to jail ?? makes no sense but that dont have any effect on legislators.........

The 1934 gun act, you can't cut a rifle or shotgun barrel off to make a pistol but if the gun never had a butt stock it is not considered a shotgun or rifle. The H&R handy gun in 410 is legal to own because it never had a butt stock but there were some that did come with a butt stock and those are not legal. I discussed this with an ATF agent and got a letter from her saying my handy gun is legal to own. The thing that trows most people off is the fact that the handy gun was not made after 1934.