Lead-dip annealing of brass....

[zampilot]

What to do in order to prevent the lead from sticking to the brass? I searched the site and it seems high temp lead is the answer, but in my case I have to scrape the brass with my utility spoon......could it be too hot (Lee Pro 4-20 at max, 900 degrees or so) ?

[No_1]

I cannot answer your question but am looking forward to others input since I was thinking of making a plate to hold 5 cases at a time that will allow me to dunk the cases then flip them into the water bucket.

Robert

[357maximum]

You are leaving the spent primer in while dunking right?

I leave the primer in and have never had a sticky lead issue the cold water did not remove from brass contraction....

[ktw]

There was a pretty good discussion of various techniques in this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4312

I have only ever used the spinning-a-case-in-my-fingers-while-holding-the-neck-in-a- torch-flame then dropping them in water. Have some 650 temp crayons, but haven't found them to add much to the process.

I tried the lead dip method once but had the lead residue problem you mentioned. In the thread above Maven suggested clean necks dipped in ATF before the lead dip. Sounds like it would solve the problem. I plan to try that someday.

-ktw

[waksupi]

If lead is sticking to your brass, the brass didn't get hot enough.

[rockrat]

Think I read somewhere, long ago, to dip the necks in powdered graphite first.

Check out a farm supply. I think they used powdered graphite for the seed planters and it should be a reasonable price.

[rugerman1]

If lead is sticking to your brass, the brass didn't get hot enough.

Unprimed brass,Ric?

[waksupi]

Unprimed brass,Ric?

Yes, unprimed.

[Boerrancher]

I have never annealed cases using lead, but I was told the same thing by others who did use the lead dip method, that if the lead sticks to the case the case did not get hot enough and there fore did not anneal.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[runfiverun]

just like it sticking to a mold.

[zampilot]

OK, I used KTW's method, WW 45-70 brass, 4 seconds in the torch flame and into water. That's just as the faintest bit o' reddish shows up.
We'll see how they hold up in re-forming into 40-65.

[Echo]

I would think air-cooling would be more appropriate, rather than dropping into water. I understand we don't want to change the temper of tha base and thereabouts, but...??

[Jbar4Ranch]

I snug them up in a drill chuck with hand pressure, turn it on on its lowest speed with only a single light on at the other end of the shop so I can see the moment it starts turning red with the Berz O Matic, then bring a coffee can of water up on it with my other hand. Ya get a bit wet after a few, but it makes for a very uniform way to heat them and it doesn't take as long as it sounds.

[357maximum]

I would think air-cooling would be more appropriate, rather than dropping into water. I understand we don't want to change the temper of tha base and thereabouts, but...??

OKAY, but what happens if your anneal travels down towards the head and softens that as it air cools? BOOM

The purpose of the water is to control how much of the case you anneal, and is the only guarantee of limiting that.

[wilddog45]

What happened to the old Lyman way of annealing? Stand em up in a cake pan of water up to near the shoulder and blast em with a torch?

[zampilot]

"What happened to the old Lyman way of annealing? Stand em up in a cake pan of water up to near the shoulder and blast em with a torch? "

I tried that, it was to tough to get even heat on each piece, even in the dark looking for the dimmest red coloring, not consistant unless you have a lot of time on your hands, and very easy to overheat some while not heating others enough. You may as well hold them for a 4-count and toss 'em in the water! Way way faster.
I just did 100 45-90 cases in about 15 minutes.

[Ricochet]

Water dropping hot copper or brass doesn't harden it. You get the same results as air cooling if you got it hot enough long enough to anneal. The water cooling is to stop the heat softening from going to the head of the case.

[Boerrancher]

I have always had good luck with the Lyman method. I use the torch head to knock them over when they get hot enough. Since brass is an excellent conductor, you only need to apply heat directly over the mouth and shoulder of the case, conduction will take care of the rest down to the water line. When you knock it over into the water, it clears the way to heat the next one. If set up properly 75 to a 100 pieces of brass can be done this way in 15 to 20 min. The longest process is standing up the brass in the water. That is why I use several pans at once and do several hundred when I do anneal brass.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[No_1]

Joe,

Are you indicating that you stand the cases up then point the torch straight down from directly overhead towards the case mouth OR are you indicating you stand them up and rotate around the case getting only the mouth and shoulder?

Robert



I have always had good luck with the Lyman method. I use the torch head to knock them over when they get hot enough. Since brass is an excellent conductor, you only need to apply heat directly over the mouth and shoulder of the case, conduction will take care of the rest down to the water line. When you knock it over into the water, it clears the way to heat the next one. If set up properly 75 to a 100 pieces of brass can be done this way in 15 to 20 min. The longest process is standing up the brass in the water. That is why I use several pans at once and do several hundred when I do anneal brass.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Boerrancher]

I deprime all my cases that are to be annealed, and stand them in water just below the shoulder. Since the primer is gone, the water is the same height inside and out. Then I point the torch as straight down as possible directing the fame into the case mouth as well as onto the shoulder. After about 4 to 5 seconds, I bump the case with the torch and knock it over into the water and move on to the next. This method does not work well with the primer still in place as it doesn't allow the water in the case to serve as a proper heat sink. I hope this answers your question.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[No_1]

Thank you Joe for your explanation. I am totally clear on your process now. I was trying to do it differently and was not having much success. I will try your process and see what happens.

Robert

[Heavy lead]

What type of torch do you use Joe, mapp, propane, or acetylene?

[shotman]

boe"s works good , If you use MAPP gas is very fast. You need a mapp head to make the gas work right

[shooting on a shoestring]

I chuck my brass lightly hand tight in a 1/2" hand held drill, turn them in the blue flame of my gasoline powered Coleman Stove until I see the color change start at the neck. When it reaches the shoulder, I pull out of the flame and drop in a bread pan to air cool. The anneal abruptly ends when pulled out of the flame and cannot travel down to the case head area. The brass cases simply cannot transfer that 650 + temperature through the brass as fast as it dissipates to the ambient air. Water quenching is only good for getting cases wet and does not affect grain size or hardness in any way.

I can anneal about 4 cases per minute and get beautifully consistent anneals. It does take a little practice.

[felix]

Well, that's true for the most part. But, watch out for cases that are short. I do cases by hand, rotating them, and then dropping them when they are too hot to hold. I do this when it is 30 degrees outside and dark. Test a couple of cases by firing them with your normal load before doing an entire lot. Measure head expansion before-and-after shooting the cases three times, paying attention also to the force required to primer seat. You might get a surprise as I did when I did a few 222 cases. Best to get in the habit of dropping them into water, snow, etc. ... felix