8x56R crimp

[Battis]

I'm loading 8x56R cast rounds (M95). I can't get a crimp on the case with the Lee two die set. Lee does make a factory crimp for that round but no one has one. Any suggestions for another caliber die that might work?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I don't, but don't understand why the regular set won't do the job. If you're going to shoot them off a bench at a range you can single load them and you won't need the crimp. Not much help, I'm afraid.

DG

[Battis]

I got fairly good neck tension by running the loaded case into a 7.5x55 seating die (decapper removed). It's not perfect, but at least the rounds won't pull forward or push inward.

I meant 7.5x55 sizing die with he decapper removed.

[wilecoyote]

...maybe a 8x57js LeeFactoryCrimp could work ...
(greetings from venice, italy)

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Greetings to you, wilecoyote! Glad to have you aboard. Welcome to the best casting, reloading, and gun forum on the internet!

DG

[wilecoyote]

Greetings to you, wilecoyote! Glad to have you aboard. Welcome to the best casting, reloading, and gun forum on the internet!

DG

...Thanks to you for the hospitality !

[Battis]

I did try a 7x57 die and it worked OK. Maybe I'll try a 8x57.

[wilecoyote]

if I remember correctly, for me it had worked, used it with a bullet of about 200 grs., .329 Lee mold then sized at .323, G.C., Lee Alox lube, for reduced loads on a friend's old Steyr.

[Battis]

That's the bullet I'm using. I like Lee products but I'm not impressed with this die set. If you seat the bullet at the correct OAL, you cannot remove the loaded cartridge from the seater die without turning the die up higher. And the crimp does not exist in the seater die. But, the sizer works, so I'll figure out the crimp.

[smithnframe]

The Lee crimp die works fine for me!

[Battis]

I'd get one but no one has any for sale.

[wilecoyote]

I don't have the exact measurements on hand, and I usually do not reload 8x56R, but I wonder if a seater-crimp die 8x57Mauser without inserting plug can solve the problem. it would be interesting to try a loaned one, even from another brand...

[7br]

You might be able to remove the decapping pin from your sizing die and use it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Battis]

Further up I said that I used the 7.5x55 seating die with the decapper removed. I meant 7.5x55 sizing die with decapper removed.
That worked (as would using the 8x56R sizing die) but the bullet has a perfect groove for a rolled crimp. I'll find a factory 8x56R crimp die eventually.
But, with the light loads I plan to use, the tampered crimp from the sizing dies should be enough. If I fatten the bullets (Beagle method), which I'll probably do, that'll give more neck tension.

[Wayne Smith]

I use the Oldfeller Frankenstein boolit and had Lee open up the internal of the seat die to get the boolit to fit through - I called them and they asked me to send the die and some boolits so I did and they immediately realized the problem. Don't know if this became the standard going forward or not. I have no problem crimping in the re-cut die.

[Battis]

I called Lee Precision. The tech told me that the reason a loaded 8x56R round won't clear the bottom of the seating die when advancing the press is because I'm using the Lee VALUE turret press, which has a case length limit. The Lee CLASSIC press doesn't have that limitation. No big deal - just remove the ratchet rod and advance it by hand.
He said that the seating die I'm using is a crimp die, and it should crimp. He told me to use Magic Marker on the case mouth to see if the case is being crimped. I did, and it's not going far enough into the seating die to reach the crimp.
If I remove the seating stem and put a case into the bottom of the die (off the press, no shell holder) I can pound the case into the die far enough to get a crimp. The shell holder keeps this from happening when it's in the press. I think the die body is too long.
An 8x57 case is 2.24" long. An 8x56R case is 2.19" long. The 8x56r definitely wouldn't reach the crimp of an 8x57 die.
Lee is at least 6 months out for most dies that are out of stock.
He said I could send the die back with a dummy round. I can imagine the turn around time on that.
I'm thinking that I could remove some of the bottom of the seating die to allow the case to reach the crimp.

[Texas by God]

Or you can trim the top side of the shellholder so that the case can advance farther into the seating die.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[wilecoyote]

...I'm thinking that I could remove some of the bottom of the seating die to allow the case to reach the crimp.

.... grinding wheel first, to get past the hardened layer, then it can be finished on the lathe, if you have access to it. yes, it makes sense and it can be done_

[Battis]

I thought about trimming the shell holder but I'd have to remove way too much. The die body is just too long, as if they intended to make an 8x57 (or whatever die). The inside of the die is fine. If I took off the thickness of a shell holder from the bottom it'd work. Famous last words...
The smartest thing to do would be to send it back to Lee.

[Battis]

I like quick and easy fixes. I fired up the bench grinder and took off some of the bottom of the die body. That's all it took. It's not pretty, but it works. The Lee tech told me that the crimp is a mix of taper and roll crimps.

[wilecoyote]

...glad you've done.
good continuation !

[Battis]

Something tells me that I'm just beginning with this rifle. It seems to like pointed bullets better than the rounded, flat nosed cast bullets (at least with dummy rounds). Hopefully, I'll be able to test it out with cast bullets this week. I still have a good supply of Nazi ammo but I don't feel the magic of excessive recoil anymore.

[wilecoyote]

if long-range shooting is not foreseen, I agree on the use of redux loads and lead bullets without punishing oneself with recoil. I think it is a question of discovering the best reduced charge, and the accuracy should not suffer.
...and the possible flinching of the shooter, myself first, above all, canceled thanks to the relaxation.

[Battis]

I used 12 grs Red Dot, 205 gr bullet, and it was much better than the Nazi ammo. A gong banger at 100 yds. Getting used to the straight pull makes the action much smoother. I had to force myself not to try and twist the bolt to the left. Just push down and bang it back. I swear the rifle called me a whimp after every shot for using the reduced loads.

[wilecoyote]

just in case, Richard Lee, on his MODERN RELOADING book, from p. 90 onwards gives excellent information about the calculation of the reduced loads for each bolt action, and with these they had also given good results on the Steyr.
(long before the Nazis, in the 1WW, here the Steyr became well known by the Italian soldiers: they were systematically hit from long distance by the feared Austro-Hungarian marksmen. this was done using both versions, short and long: scoped specimens were found of both, indeed.)

[Battis]

I'll check out that book. How strict are your gun laws?

[wilecoyote]

...about our laws, it's a bit of a long talk, but the fundamental limitations remain virtually unobtainable legal gun carry for self-defense, no full-auto, no mufflers, no .fifty bmg rifles_. I stop here so as not to enter into legal & political personal rants.

...here, anyway, the substance of Lee's concept and the basic formula, 1st Manual, which works well.
obviously in the two well known Manuals, first or second edition, there are also really interesting tables, etc. _

[NorthMoccasin]

Why bother to crimp in this rifle? The only rifle loads i crimp are tube fed lever actions. I have never had a bullet move in a bolt or straight pull rifle.