Herco with heavy bullets in .45acp or AR?

[ddixie884]

I loaded a few commercial cast 255gr .452 swcbb in auto cases over Herco for use in my moon clip revolvers. I loaded 6 with 7gr and fired them without clips. They were pretty stout with a good bit of felt recoil. This was a little bit more than I was looking for with these loads and I have loaded a batch with 6gr. Cases from the 7gr loads were easily extracted with a fingernail and showed no signs of pressure. I was very pleased with the amount of case fill with this powder Anyone used Herco for this purpose......

[tazman]

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 that lists load data for 45ACP and bullets up to 260 grains. Even with the 240 grain bullets, you are running hot.
The pressures are low enough that you would not see any pressure signs at the charge weight you list even though it may well be over pressure for the cartridge. 45ACP pressures run pretty low for the most part.
I can see where it would make a great powder for a revolver in that cartridge. It shows good velocities.

[ddixie884]

These are loaded long like a .45AR. Case mouth even with the crimp groove. Too long for a magazine.

[tazman]

These are loaded long like a .45AR. Case mouth even with the crimp groove. Too long for a magazine.

That will help.

[ddixie884]

Larry Gibson loaded and tested some of these loads for me. 255gr swcbb over Herco powder seated to the crimp groove and taper crimped.OAL 1.213. I didn't ask him to test 6.0.

5.0gr 13,500psi this should be OK for shaved .455s
6.5gr 22,400psi that is +P or better. I load 6 to 6.2 myself
7.0gr 28,000psi that is excessive, just about .45Super level......

[ddixie884]

I have since checked these loads, loaded to the crimp groove and I am surprised to see they will load into a M1911 magazine. I have not checked them for feeding and suspect there would be problems with chambering in a barrel that hasn't been throated for the generous keith type front band. I take it for granted DougGuy could throat your barrel as I think a member posted he had done one for him..........

[Paul105]

Speer #13 - 260gr JHP in 45 ACP listed with other std pressure loads - another data point
.
https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/large/Speer%20260gr%2045ACP%20thumbnail_IMG_61861.jpg
.
Paul

[ddixie884]

Yes that page is the data I was relying on when I loaded these. Thanx for sharing..........

My Speer manual is a #11 but it has that same page....

[beltfed]

I had read an article in Guns and Ammo magazine, published in 1976, titled
"45 Auto Rim Magnum" Loads were with Herco powder and, I believe some with 2400.
The loads used the "simple" expedient of seating bullets only 0.150" into the 45 AR cases.
then heavy crimp in a cannelure rolled on to jacketed bullets at 0.150" or just over the base
band of cast bullets. Other than my own loading log books , I lost the original article.

310841

NEXT, I take NO responsibility of any loadings except my own Personal loadings.

These loads were fired in my M1955 Smith Wesson revolver.

1. Herters Mag Primer/ 13.0 gr Herco/ 185 grain Hornady 185 grain JHP, seat to 0.150" cannelure, heavy crimp
Velocity across Oehler: 1340fps Cases extracted easily, primers show no sign of excess pressure.

2. Herters Mag Primer/12.0 gr Herco/255 gr SWC 0.452" "Green Bay Bullets"/seat to 0.150",heavy crimp over base band. Velocity: 1132 fps. Cases extract easily, no primer excess pressure signs.

3. Herters Mag Primer/ 230 gr FMJRN 0.451", cannelured at 0.150"/ Seat to cannelure and heavy crimp
A. 12.0 gr Herco, 1132fps s.d 36.9
B. 12.5 gr Herco, 1178fps s.d. 28.9
C. 13.0 gr Herco, 1238fps s.d. 22.3

All these loads and other loads more recently with the Lyman 454424, 255 gr and the Lyman 452423 235 grain were fired in my Smith Wesson M1955 with easy extraction and No pressure signs on Fed 150 LP and CCI LP primers.
They all shoot accurately and "with Authority"
AGAIN, I take NO Responsibility for loads other than MY OWN

beltfed/arnie

[LAGS]

Thank you.
I load my S&W 1955 with Unique and 255 gr PC'ed cast Boolits.
I have plenty of Herco , so I will give that a try

[beltfed]

LAGS
Did you mean 255 gr PC bullets.
I never got into PC ing. That would be good for the 0.150" seated loading
as there would be no conventional lube esposed to pick up dirt.

START LOW, with the loads and work your way and confidence up
beltfed/arnie

[LAGS]

Sorry.
My Mistyping
My cast Boolits are the 255 gr.
I will correct my post.

[MKII]

Years ago I loaded a 255 lswc with Unique. It fed just fine in my Series 70 Colt. I quit using it over concerns of too much slide velocity. I have also used large doses of Unique in 1917 and 625 S&W revolvers. The lighter 1917 had bullet migration with only a taper crimp. A roll crimp solved that but required moon clips. Herco or Blue Dot might work better.

[beltfed]

Here are heavy 2400 loads from the Speer No 6 manual of 1964.
Remember, old Speer loads were generally on the warm side. Also Unique loads.
So, I would go in with Starting loads. These would have been crimped into the crimp groove.
beltfed/arnie

310863

[beltfed]

Also, the Current Alliant 2400 is slightly faster burning than the old Hercules 2400
So, again, if a person wants to try 2400, begin with Starting loads
beltfed/arnie

[groundpounder]

Timely revival of a thread for me. Just finished up an 8 pounder of unique and now in process of using Herco as a replacement. Currently loading some auto rim that liked 6 to 6.5 Unique with 454423. Starting with Herco at same charges to see where it takes me.

[ddixie884]

Here are heavy 2400 loads from the Speer No 6 manual of 1964.
Remember, old Speer loads were generally on the warm side. Also Unique loads.
So, I would go in with Starting loads. These would have been crimped into the crimp groove.
beltfed/arnie

310863



A blast from the past. This is before everyone of importance decided that 2400 wouldn't work in handguns that didn't say MAGNUM on the barrel..........

[ddixie884]

I have found that Herco does quite well with Unique loads. I wouldn't bother with the starting loads as they would probably be dirty and smokey too.

[groundpounder]

Took Herco up to 7.4 gr with pc’d 454423 sized .452 and averaged 961 fps 59/24. Think I’ll call it good in my Smith 625.

[ddixie884]

There was a time "in my misguided youth" I used 7.5gr of old Unique under a rnd grooved 454424 that weighed 262gr when cast of raw WWs, crimped in the groove in AR and USGI .45acp cases in several 1917 Colt and S&W revolvers. I even fired them in a shaved .455 Brit S&W. I think one reason I got by with that was I was sizing to .452 and all had very generous throats. I guess it just wasn't my time. I was young and dumb just out of the service and reading Elmer. I had no clue. Boy them big old slugs made a thump when they hit something solid and they would sure penetrate, too.

[RJM52]

...at least you made it through Gary to become the father of the .41 Special...where would we all be without you!!

Bob

[beltfed]

ddixie,
Just so you know, those loads from G&A magazine were NOT Elmer Keith authored
I sure wish I could find that article
beltfed/arnie

[farmbif]

somewhere I still have the old pamphlets that give load data for just about all handgun cartridges using bullseye, red dot, green dot, blue dot, herco and unique. of course these were all worked up by Hercules using copper crusher pressure test barrels.
here is a copy of that old data for anyone interested
https://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Hercules_1992.pdf

[ddixie884]

...at least you made it through Gary to become the father of the .41 Special...where would we all be without you!!

Bob

To be clear the .41spl had been around a long while when I discovered it. It was well enough known that I had been studying on a .41spl on a 41 frame and got David to build me one on a 686. But I wasn't looking forward to trimming brass for the rest of my life and having my .41spls say Magnum on the headstamp. I called Star Line and got them involved all it cost was money @7K for the run of brass and a few bucks for the headstamp and we were in biz.