Water quench or air?

[srk]

Hi
Been awhile
Probably a redundant question
But which do you prefer.
I was sizing some 22 cal with gas checks the other day
which had been air cooled
Thinking I should have water quenched them as they seemed a little soft
Look forward to any input
Cheers

[Dusty Bannister]

For small caliber bullets made from a relatively soft alloy, I use the Lee push through size dies to size and seat/crimp gas checks. Later, after they age a bit, use the in/out to lube the bullet in a slightly larger size die. That avoids distorted noses.

You have asked sort of a cart before the horse type of question. Are you saying that alloy hardness is more important than undamaged cast bullets?

[charlie b]

Depends on what you want. I only air cool, but, I use an alloy suited to the hardness level I want.

If you are using an alloy with antimony then water quench will harden them a bit. How much depends on the alloy.

Do you know what your alloy is? Why do you consider them too soft? What velocities are you trying to shoot at? Lube or powder coat? Which lube? What rifling twist? Are you getting leading in the barrel or does your accuracy fall off while shooting?

[8mmFan]

I have generally always had access to alloy on the softer side. Basically pure, with some wheel weights mixed in. I’ve never air-quenched a bullet. Every single bullet that I’ve ever dropped from a mold dove into water.
It’s just how I’ve always done it. If I had easy access to more metals to make more precise alloys at low-cost, I’d maybe air-quench?

8mmFan

[C.F.Plinker]

The range scrap I use measures 7-8 BHN when air cooled but that goes up to 12-14 BHN when I water drop them. I will air cool round balls for the muzzle loaders and water drop everything else. Boolets for the 30-30 are water dropped and get gas checks.

[JoeJames]

Mostly casting coww’s, I used to water quenched but have not for several months, just air cooled. Casting 32’s, 38’s, and 44’s. Hottest are the 44’s at @894 fps. All are accurate and no leading. I tumble lube all.

[Txcowboy52]

I cast up several hundred boolits at a time and the may sit for a month before I powder coat them, but when I do coat them they go straight from the oven into a bucket of water. So I'm not sure. Maybe it doesn't matter because I powder coat .

[waksupi]

You won't be able to hit high velocity with them. I added high antimony shot, and water quenched to reach the 2700 fps range with accuracy of 1 5/8" at 100 yards

[Walks]

My setup has always been for water quench. Even when making 20/1 HP's.
Just the way I do it. It's virtually impossible to damage a bullet by dropping it this way.

[gwpercle]

I'm 99 % Handgun Boolit caster and shooter ... Rifle... a few 30 cals at max 2500 fps ... usually 1600 fps .
So for these I Cast , Air Cool, then size and lube in Lyman 450 .
Achieve Harder boolets with different alloy composition .

Water drop hardens , sizing boolit cold works the bearing surface ... sizing is harder and sizing/cold working softens the boolit back to air cooled bhn ... Your water dropped boolits end up being harder to size and just as soft as air cooled ... Think about it !
Why waste the time fooling with bucket of water while casting if you don't have to .

Want hard boolits ... cast , size , heat and cold water quench to harden and then lube the already sized and hardened boolits .

I don't care for all the water mess . Since I size/lube in a 450 I just never bought into the water dropping business . Just me ... Do whatever way makes you happy .

Truth ... Boolit Size trumps Boolit Hardness most every time .
Gary

[Garyshome]

Water

[Shopdog]

Water because;

When casting for "perfection" (getting stupid tight weight #'s and uber consistent "finish"),I really don't want to be bothered by the distraction of watching where the bullet lands. It hits the water,and goes into slow motion towards the folded towel in the bttm of bucket.

[8mmFan]

So, I learned something new yet again tonight, from Waksupi and GWPercle. I didn’t realize that I could be softening my water-quenched bullets by sizing them AFTER I’d already water quenched them. So the key, then, is to re-harden them AFTER sizing, and THEN water quench them? What temperature should they be heated to, and for how long? Could this be done in a cheap toaster oven, or something like that?

Also, Waksupi, how do you decide how much Magnum shot to put in your melting pot? Could I mix it with pure (or nearly-pure) lead? What ratio of Magnum shot to pure lead would you think a person would need to get an alloy up to the level necessary for your 2700 fps velocities?

Thanks for the info, guys!

8mmFan

[ElPistolero]

I happen to use a water quench, but only for casting speed. In the long run, bullets will harden just as much in air as they do with a quick cooling. My use of water is set up so that the bullets from my Magma Engineering "MasterCaster" hit a sponge and roll into water to help preserve the clean bullet, not necessarily to harden it. After some weeks in air (I cast at least 1000 each session), the BHN is the same, whether lazily dropped in air on a rag from a manual mold like my NOE .45 HP or a 9mm dropped on my sponge collector at 500/hour from the Magma.

Alloy has much more impact on final hardness than casting method.

[waksupi]

Also, Waksupi, how do you decide how much Magnum shot to put in your melting pot? Could I mix it with pure (or nearly-pure) lead? What ratio of Magnum shot to pure lead would you think a person would need to get an alloy up to the level necessary for your 2700 fps velocities?

Thanks for the info, guys!

8mmFan

I always start with wheel weight lead, so can't tell you about pure lead. I put in about a tablespoon of shot to 20# pot.

[Larry Gibson]

WQing, HTing hardens the entire bullet throughout. That is what is want to prevent bullet slump during acceleration. Sizing just softens the surface area sized a bit is all. Unless grossly sized it has little affect on the bullet.

I WQ bullets to be used for HV loads in rifle cartridges. AC for most normal shooting upwards of 1900 fps with alloys of COWW +2% tin through #2 alloy in composition.

[GregLaROCHE]

Setting aside other pros and cons, I like water quenching because it easily maintains the boolit shape. Too often when dropping onto a dry towel, some boolits would end up distorted.

Just make sure they are 100% dry if you want to PC and don’t throw your culls back into the casting pot!

[8mmFan]

I always start with wheel weight lead, so can't tell you about pure lead. I put in about a tablespoon of shot to 20# pot.

Got it. Thank you.

8mmFan