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MrWolf
05-21-2021, 12:46 PM
I found this very interesting but provides much needed explanations. Because of its importance, I am including a link along with the article. Mods if this goes against anything please remove the link.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

Ever since the Food and Drug Administration granted emergency use authorization for two new vaccines, employers, schools, and other organizations are grappling with whether to require Covid-19 vaccination.

While organizations are certainly free to encourage their employees, students, and other members to be vaccinated, federal law provides that, at least until the vaccine is licensed, individuals must have the option to accept or decline to be vaccinated.

Knowing what an organization can or cannot do with respect to Covid-19 vaccines can help them keep their employees, students, and members safe and also save the them from costly and time-consuming litigation.

Much remains unknown about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine
Even though the FDA granted emergency use authorizations for the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in December 2020, the clinical trials the FDA will rely upon to ultimately decide whether to license these vaccines are still underway and are designed to last for approximately two years to collect adequate data to establish if these vaccines are safe and effective enough for the FDA to license.

The abbreviated timelines for the emergency use applications and authorizations means there is much the FDA does not know about these products even as it authorizes them for emergency use, including their effectiveness against asymptomatic infection, death, and transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes the disease.

Given the uncertainty about the two vaccines, their EUAs are explicit that each is “an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication” and require that all “promotional material relating to the Covid-19 Vaccine clearly and conspicuously … state that this product has not been approved or licensed by the FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA” (emphasis added).

Related: Covid-19 vaccine basics: Why the rollout is so slow, who can get doses, and what about side effects
EUAs are clear: Getting these vaccines is voluntary
The same section of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act that authorizes the FDA to grant emergency use authorization also requires the secretary of Health and Human Services to “ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed … of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product.”

Likewise, the FDA’s guidance on emergency use authorization of medical products requires the FDA to “ensure that recipients are informed to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances … That they have the option to accept or refuse the EUA product …”

In the same vein, when Dr. Amanda Cohn, the executive secretary of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, was asked if Covid-19 vaccination can be required, she responded that under an EUA, “vaccines are not allowed to be mandatory. So, early in this vaccination phase, individuals will have to be consented and they won’t be able to be mandatory.” Cohn later affirmed that this prohibition on requiring the vaccines applies to organizations, including hospitals.

The EUAs for both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines require facts sheets to be given to vaccination providers and recipients. These fact sheets make clear that getting the vaccine is optional. For example, the one for recipients states that, “It is your choice to receive or not receive the Covid-19 Vaccine,” and if “you decide to not receive it, it will not change your standard of medical care.”

What this means in practice
When the FDA grants emergency use authorization for a vaccine, many questions about the product cannot be answered. Given the open questions, when Congress granted the authority to issue EUAs, it chose to require that every individual should be allowed to decide for himself or herself whether or not to receive an EUA product. The FDA and CDC apparently consider this fundamental requirement of choice important enough that even during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic they reinforced that policy decision when issuing their guidance related to the Covid-19 vaccines.

Related: Comparing the Covid-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson
This means that an organization will likely be at odds with federal law if it requires its employees, students or other members to get a Covid-19 vaccine that is being distributed under emergency use authorization.

State law often prohibits retaliating against an employee for refusing to participate in a violation of federal law. Organizations that require Covid-19 vaccination in violation of federal law may face lawsuits under these state laws not only to block the policy but also for damages and attorneys’ fees. Such potentially costly lawsuits can be avoided by refraining from adopting policies that require vaccination or penalize members for choosing not to be vaccinated.

Organizations are free to encourage vaccinations through internal communications, through educational events, and through other measures to urge employees to be vaccinated. They can take these measures so long as: (1) they are not viewed as coercive, (2) the organization makes clear the decision regarding whether to receive the vaccine is voluntary, and (3) the measures comply with the requirements in the EUAs and the related regulations for these products.

People across the world have had their lives upended during the last year. The urgency to return to normalcy is felt deeply by many. As decision-makers at organizations decide on their Covid-19 vaccination policy, they should be careful to not let this passion lead the organization to run afoul of the law.

Omega
05-21-2021, 01:10 PM
The memo we were handed says the FDA should be approving at least one of the vaccines by Aug or Sep, by current estimates. So they are already advising us that if SECDEF makes it mandatory, it will become condition of employment.

1006
05-21-2021, 07:03 PM
Seems like I recently read or heard that Delta Air Lines was planning to require all new hires to have the vaccine. I am not a fan of theirs, or their CEO. So, .....

MrWolf
05-21-2021, 08:24 PM
Just find it interesting that his highness the dictator is stating get the vaccine or pay the price when it is illegal to make anyone receive an EUA drug. There is supposed to be full disclosure, etc.. His conduct and his handlers are the reason we are having such problems.

Gator 45/70
05-21-2021, 09:42 PM
I see a future for someone in counterfeit covid papers, You know its going to happen?

Idaho45guy
05-21-2021, 10:10 PM
What about those people that CAN'T get the vaccine due to adverse medical reactions? I reacted poorly to the first dose of Pfizer vaccine and was told to not get the 2nd dose or it might kill me.

My company doctor refuses to acknowledge the risks of me getting fully vaccinated and ignored the widespread advice to not vaccinate people who already had a severe case of Covid. The company docs don't give a crap about actual medical science or facts and are outright lying and covering up employees having negative reactions to the vaccine. They are doing so under pressure from the company and the government to get as many sheep as possible injected with this crap, no matter what the adverse effects are.

So, I guess because I can't get fully vaccinated, that I am now a second-class citizen that doesn't have the same rights and privileges as others? I can't fly to see my grandkids? Or, get a job at a company that requires all employees to be vaccinated? Or be entered in a lottery to win millions of dollars (Ohio). Or get free gift cards, or property tax credits like in some states?

We are on the verge of the US Constitution being completely abandoned or ignored by the tyrants on the left. Perilous times, indeed.

jonp
05-22-2021, 03:13 AM
Seems like I recently read or heard that Delta Air Lines was planning to require all new hires to have the vaccine. I am not a fan of theirs, or their CEO. So, .....

But.....while they apparently can do this they are liable for any adverse reactions through workers compensation or disability and must provide reasonable accommodation for disability or religious exemptions. That would mean if you are going to be hired or are an employee who has gone through cancer treatment for example or have a religious objection they must let you wear a mask instead.

A question of mine on this is what happens if they are requiring you to get the vaccine, you refuse on one of the two grounds and they are reasonable letting you wear a mask instead. You are then picked on, harassed etc at work creating a hostile work environment for you. That is grounds for suing a company.

If I were an employer I'd stay clear of the entire minefield but they are in a tough spot. As I heard this week, one restaurant is requiring masks or Covid Vac proof for service. The owners point is that he doesn't know if he will be sued by someone if they go in and get Covid in his place and can't get an answer one way or the other on whether he is liable or not. One lawsuit he has to defend from someone with a bankroll and good lawyer would put him out of business so he isn't taking a chance and he has a good point. I'm not wearing a mask, if he insisted I put one on and I refused I'd just go somewhere else as it's his business same as a sign on the door. No problem for me to find someplace else and I'd not make a scene over it.

jonp
05-22-2021, 03:17 AM
What about those people that CAN'T get the vaccine due to adverse medical reactions? I reacted poorly to the first dose of Pfizer vaccine and was told to not get the 2nd dose or it might kill me.

My company doctor refuses to acknowledge the risks of me getting fully vaccinated and ignored the widespread advice to not vaccinate people who already had a severe case of Covid.

Similar thing happened to one of the wife's employees. Doctor told him to get the shot even though he had already had Covid and got over it never telling him about the adverse side effects. He got the first and was in the hospital for a week. Not getting the second.

Or be entered in a lottery to win millions of dollars (Ohio). Or get free gift cards, or property tax credits like in some states?

Waiting for the first lawsuit on this.

abunaitoo
05-22-2021, 03:26 AM
There are schools that if you are not vaccinated, you cannot be there.
university of hawaii just came out with it.
I sure hope someone files a lawsuit.
What gooberment is not telling people on TV adds, is that it is still an experimental drug.
They still don't know the side effects it might have.
They don't even know how effective it is.
People here who have taken it, I think, have a false sense of security.
They think they're immune.
So they stopped practicing other precautions.
The vaccine card sounds just like Germany in 1939, and the Jews.
cops can stop you anytime, for no reason, and ask to see your "identity papers" or "vaccine papers".
Already there is talk of not letting you in stores, buildings, restaurants, and other normal places, if you don't have the card..
I wonder how long before those who decide not to get the vaccine, will be forced to wear a tag.
All in the name of "public safety"

bakerjw
05-22-2021, 07:21 AM
I am more concerned about the long term side effects of the DNA vaccines (AZ and J&J) With those, foreign DNA strands do make it into the nucleus of a persons cells and there is not information readily available as to how long they stay there.
And for the trails possibly ending later this year. They will have about a 1 year time frame of "Long" term study.

There are some vaccines that are true vaccines, namely Novavax and Sanofi.

PrestoColumbus
05-22-2021, 07:36 AM
Also, whatever happened to HIPAA privacy laws? Everyone's going on about these vaccines, managers are asking employees if they've gotten "the jab".

It's nobody's business if one has or hasn't chosen to be vaccinated

Rick Hodges
05-22-2021, 09:08 AM
If you are an at will employee you can be let go if the employer decides keeping you on staff is no longer in his business' best interest. He/she doesn't have to give a reason.

“Private employees are generally ‘at will,’ meaning they can be terminated for any reason that is not explicitly illegal,” the authors wrote. “Those arguing that the EUA statute prohibits mandates by at-will employers are claiming that this federal law is changing existing state employment law on the topic by mere implication. They are reading in a broad prohibition covering all employers and universities in the U.S. that is not, in fact, in the statute. Such broad preemption would require, at a minimum, clearer language.”

MrWolf
05-22-2021, 10:30 AM
Also, whatever happened to HIPAA privacy laws? Everyone's going on about these vaccines, managers are asking employees if they've gotten "the jab".

It's nobody's business if one has or hasn't chosen to be vaccinated

It is my understanding that HIPAA is not applicable in these situations. I believe it only applies to doctors hospitals, etc. A private employer can basically set their own stipulations on whether you need to be vaccinated or not but according to the terms of the EUA, taking the vaccine cannot be mandatory as that would be illegal. I got into it a bit with post office lady yesterday which prompted me to do some research. Post Office locations are subject to the jurisdictions they are in. If no masks are required in the state,, then I do not see how they can require wearing one. Problem is folks are using emotions versus facts. It will get messy.

Bmi48219
05-22-2021, 10:37 AM
It was only a matter of time:

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2021/may/21/papers-please-oregon-now-requires-proof-of-vaccination/

jonp
05-22-2021, 12:38 PM
It is my understanding that HIPAA is not applicable in these situations. I believe it only applies to doctors hospitals, etc. A private employer can basically set their own stipulations on whether you need to be vaccinated or not but according to the terms of the EUA, taking the vaccine cannot be mandatory as that would be illegal. I got into it a bit with post office lady yesterday which prompted me to do some research. Post Office locations are subject to the jurisdictions they are in. If no masks are required in the state,, then I do not see how they can require wearing one. Problem is folks are using emotions versus facts. It will get messy.

Post Office Buildings are not subject to the jurisdiction, they are Federal Buildings much like courthouses. Don't get caught carrying in one even if your in a Constitutional Carry State. I've carried in a couple but knew the postmaster who were hunters and they didn't care. Try it in an anti firearms location and your day will go south in a hurry

bakerjw
05-22-2021, 01:00 PM
I work in a free to work state where they can let you go for any reason. If the reason is not compelling enough though they open themselves up for legal action. If you've had excellent reviews for 10 years and all of the sudden you are the only one let go, then there is a problem.

farmbif
05-22-2021, 04:43 PM
well the FDA sure aint perfect there have been many drugs that they approved that cause everything from dizziness to cancer to death as side effect. These drugs sometimes are recalled sometimes not, I guess it depends on who the drug companies have paid off. Its each individuals choice I guess right now with the Covid thing wether you want to get a vaccine or wear a mask or whatever.
but the majority of schools won't allow kids in who don't have proof of certain vaccines in the vast majority of the country. try getting your kid into school without proof of vaccination for mumps measles and rubella--it just aint gonna happen in most places except maybe Oregon or some place like that where psychedelic mushrooms are legal.