Investarms Hawken - #11 caps or Musket caps?

[cuzinbruce]

I am resurrecting an Investarms Hawken rifle, .50 cal. I can't find #11 percussion caps which are supposed to be correct for it. I do have Musket caps. There are nipples available with the right thread, for musket caps. If I change the nipple out to use musket caps, would that be OK? The musket caps are probably a lot hotter? I don't have much experience with ML's so I hope someone has experience with this.
Thanks,
Bruce

[FLINTNFIRE]

They will be fine , if that is what you can get then do it , I have bought musket nipples also for my rifles as I have the caps for them .

[LAGS]

Track of the Wolf should have the type and thread nipples to use musket style caps in your rifle.

[Hellgate]

Change out the nipple for musket caps. They are more available and throw more flame. I have 4 ML rifles and I have made sure they all use musket caps. I want the damned thing to go off when I squeeze the trigger. After all, ya only get one shot at it.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I do not have a problem with regular percussion caps setting off my charge , but I to saw that musket caps were more available during this shortage so I bought musket cap nipples and also additional musket nipples for my muskets .

Since you can find musket caps but not percussion caps buy the musket nipples and save your cap nipples for a return to saner times or when caps are found and the others are not .

[rodwha]

Interesting. I’ve read elsewhere that musket caps are weak, and even people looking to to swap to percussion caps.

I have a Lyman that eats Rem #11, #10, and CCI #11 Mags, everything I’ve tried. I’d like to try standard CCI #11s, but I can’t find them locally or a single tin online. They’re what my ROA nipples were designed for (Track of the Wolf). It works with Rem #10s so it’s all I use these days.

If you can get a musket nipple that’s a pretty cheap conversion regardless, and will allow you to shoot as much as you want right now.

[mooman76]

I've heard musket caps are stronger and I've heard they are the same so I don't know. Make sure you don't get reenactor caps though, they are weaker.

[Beagle333]

I have nipples for both, and both go bang equally for me. I'd use whatever was available.

[bedbugbilly]

OP - I bought a 50 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle and set it up for target shooting. IIRC, they are made by the same who produce Investment Arms and the breech plug bolster, etc.is all the same.

I ordered a nipple replacement for mine to be able to use musket caps. No reason it won't work just fine.

One thing to check first though . . . ideally, the nipple should be centered in the hammer cup. Take a look at your rifle to verify that. If your nipple location is off center - and this can sometimes happen with production rifles - then switching to a musket cap size nipple may cause a problem if the nipple is not centered in the hammer cup. If it isn't, when you fire, the inside of the hammer cup might interfere with the edge of the cap on the nipple and not give a full, square strike on the top of the nipple. Very likely it won't be an issue but it is something to keep in mind - and I believe T of W also mentions this.

Another alternative - if you can't find caps but can find shotgun primers - is to go with a Mag Spark - I don't have one but a lot of folks seem to like those as well. When I bought my Lyman, I also bought 1K of shotgun primers with the intent of possibly getting a Mag Spark should I not be able to get caps. Fortunately, I was able to stock up on musket caps, #10s and #11s before everything got so scarce.

Good luck and have fun!

[waksupi]

If it's your only choice, change the nipple until more caps come back into stores. Generally, the musket caps won't be the best for accuracy, as you can have TOO MUCH spark.

[cuzinbruce]

Thanks. I am going to go ahead and order the nipple for musket caps.

[Edward]

If it's your only choice, change the nipple until more caps come back into stores. Generally, the musket caps won't be the best for accuracy, as you can have TOO MUCH spark.

My magspark 209 conversion in my TC Renegade long range set up (700 yds) works to my satisfaction as it"s the longest my club has . Works good enough I use them on 7-8 different ones for hunting , and I have been using them long before the current shortage They work fine! /Ed

[megasupermagnum]

A nipple is dirt cheap, so there's no reason not to use musket caps if that is what you have. That is one thing I like about percussion guns is you have at least three different sources of ignition from a percussion cap, musket cap, or a 209 primer with a Magspark adapter. I'm fairly sure there are adapters out there to shoot rifle primers too.

Anyway, the one issue that is possible with a musket cap, is if your hammer cup is too narrow to accept the musket cap. Sometimes if it is just barely big enough, maybe the alignment is not perfect, and that can be an issue. If your hammer comes down perfectly centered on the nipple, and the cup is big enough to fit a musket cap, you are good to go.

As for performance, that depends. There are more than one kind of musket cap. They should all be stronger than a regular #10 or #11 percussion cap. The difference is pretty minimal from a magnum percussion cap. All of them are pipsqueaks compared to a 209 shotgun primer.

I don't use musket caps for the sole reason that they were outrageously expensive. Two years ago, musket caps were not quite twice the price of #11 magnum caps. Now I'm sure there are people paying $40 per tin (which is what I paid for 1000 caps two years ago).

[cuzinbruce]

I got the musket nipple from Buffalo Arms, TOW was out of stock. Size is about the same as the old one and the threads are right. I tried it and saw a gap at the base. I went to measure the gap and realized the gap is only on one side, the other side is tight against the flat surface. The hole drilled and tapped for the nipple is not perpendicular to the flat surface. Curious and a bit sloppy of Investarms. I don't think it will matter. Gap is about .020" with a feeler gage on the gap side. As for the nipple being centered in the hammer recess, it isn't perfect but should be good enough. I have 2 kinds of musket caps, old Alcan and less old RWS. The Alcan caps, copper, are pretty loose. They would be gone if you were out hunting. The RWS, brass ones, are a better fit. Do you squeeze or crimp caps to hold them in place? I am putting up some pix so you can see what I am talking about. Getting close to trying this out. I just have to get the set trigger working to my satisfaction.
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[megasupermagnum]

I don't have much experience with musket caps, I've never hunted with them. Slightly pinching percussion caps is super common, I see no reason it wouldn't work with a musket cap. Another hunters trick is to take a tiny dab of ear wax, and put it on the nipple. This seals the cap, and sticks it on.

As for the nipple hole threads not being drilled perfect, it's an Investarms. They are bottom rung guns that go bang. You should be happy the hammer and nipple line up as well as they do. It may not be pretty, but as long as the shoulder seats somewhat, it is safe, and will work.

[carbine]

Cuzinbruce
That what I did with mine back in 1981. Worked great

[KCSO]

Check the hammer nose first.