$540 for seven years for a pickup...

[Idaho45guy]

Was going over the remaining financial obligation for my 2019 Toyota 4Runner. I love it, and it will be a great vehicle for at least another ten years if I keep it. But, I would like a 1/2-ton pickup to tow a 22' RV camper, or a half cord of firewood, or whatever you need a 1/2-ton pickup for. So, naturally I looked at Toyota Tundras. The cheapest I could find within 100 miles was $48,000. For a pretty basic 1/2-ton pickup. The "fancy" ones were $52,000 and up.

So, since i have $6,000 worth of equity in my current vehicle, I would need to finance $42,000 in order to buy a new pickup. To keep the payments to where I could afford them, I would have to get an 84 month loan at 2.5% interest, even with my excellent credit score.

That's seven years of payments at $536 a month to buy a modest 1/2-ton pickup truck! That is insane! My house payment on a 3-bedroom home in a nice neighborhood is $575 a month.

I called my dad to discuss the dilemma, and he pointed out that in a couple of years, when my 4Runner is paid off, that interest rates may be up around 8-10% on new vehicles. And prices for new pickups may be nearly twice what they are today due to inflation.

He lived through the 70's and Jimmy Carter and idiotic economic policies. He thinks Joe Biden is leading us directly into historically high interest rates and crippling inflation.

He advised me to keep my 4Runner and pay it off and put extra money aside. He said he thinks economic end times are about to hit and a $400 car payment and a $575 house payment are extremely valuable and to not jeopardize either. He thinks the days of Americans moving slowly up the ladder of economic prosperity are over. That the dream of having a nicer vehicle and bigger home with just a bit more hard work and a promotion is gone. We are about to enter a winter of inflation and devaluation of the dollar.

Seems like now is the time to lock in a $48,000 pickup at 2% finance rate if in a couple of years, the same pickup will cost me $60,000 at 5% interest, right?

Whatever happens, I just can't believe that a pickup costs a year's wages or more these days.

My grandpa made $32,000 a year in 1979 as a union carpenter. He bought a brand new 1979 F150 XLT pickup regular cab 2wd for $5,500.

That brand new pickup cost him 1/5 of his year's wages. Today, a new F150 like my Grandpa's would cost $35,000.

In 2021, union carpenter wages are about twice what my grandpa made, or $28 an hour. That equals about $56,000 a year.

So today, a new F150 costs more than half of a year's wages in today's wages. Used to cost a fifth of a year's wages.

This is why the middle class is disappearing and why people are struggling. Nobody wants to talk about it or acknowledge it. But the facts are the facts.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not going to dispute that the country is in a real bad place as far as debt and inflation, but why would you want to buy a brand new truck? Someone must be, but it sure ain't me. I've bought every vehicle I ever had with cash.

[Winger Ed.]

If you don't want a fancy, loaded , city truck-- talk to the fleet sales person.
They're usually out back of the dealership's front showroom in a shack.

They are where ya buy ambulances, school busses, wreckers, and stripped down bare bones fleet trucks.

I got a fleet F250-- wind up windows, rubber mat, steel rims, bench seat, etc. for less than half the loaded out city trucks cost.
It has painted bumpers instead of Chrome, black plastic grill,
and the old school (cheap) headlight bulbs instead of the expensive lens thing.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm not going to dispute that the country is in a real bad place as far as debt and inflation, but why would you want to buy a brand new truck? Someone must be, but it sure ain't me. I've bought every vehicle I ever had with cash.

That's a great question.

As responsible consumers and folks of modest means, why would we pay such outrageous prices for new vehicles?

The reason is entirely open to debate. I see folks posting how they are keeping old and worn out vehicles for years and are completely happy. Others, who don't possess mechanical ability or have the resources to repair vehicles, may feel they are better served with a vehicle that needs little or no mechanical attention.

Other may feel that a a mechanical breakdown would endanger their lives. I'm one of those folks.

I live in an area on the edge of true wilderness. I love to explore the outdoors and often find myself 20+ miles from the nearest town or dwelling. Getting stranded in a broken vehicle when nighttime temps dip into the single digits can be deadly. When I was younger, I walked out of the woods many times due to getting stuck or broken down with an older vehicle. Now, in my 50's, I can't hike out 15 miles in the dark at zero degrees. So, I drive vehicles that are reliable and capable.

Most folks can get by driving a pile of junk that barely makes it a mile or so to the store and back. Many of us can't. I have a 2007 Chevy HHR with 210k miles on it. It might blow up tomorrow on my way to work. No big deal. I could coast to the side of the road and hitch a ride to work.

But no way would I take it into the mountains to go hunting or exploring, knowing that if it failed, I would face a multi-mile hike out to safety.

But baring the factor of needing a reliable vehicle to actually live and survive, there is the economic equation.

What is the price of a used pickup? What is the reliability of a used pickup? What are the current repair costs of used pickups?

I suspect most people over the age of 40 have no idea of the crazy repair and parts prices of vehicles these days.

My brother-in-law has a 2012 Ford Taurus with 170k miles on it. His water pump went out the other day. He had it towed to the dealer. Cost of repair? Over $2000. Value of his vehicle? $3500. He ended up trading in the vehicle on a newer used Toyota SUV.

Years ago, I had a 1966 F100 that I paid $100 for. I drove it all over the country. The water pump went out in the middle of nowhere on my way from Idaho to Seattle. My dad had to drive 100 miles to bring me a new water pump. Cost of the water pump? $20. Cost of the gas to have my dad drive 200 miles? $20. He and I fixed it in 30 minutes. Today? That would have totaled the vehicle. Insane.

Transmissions today are $4000+. Motors are $5000+ for gas V6 and V8s.

You want a 1/2-ton extra cab pickup with 4wd and under 100k miles? Cheapest one in my area without a salvage title is $19,000. When you figure finance rates on new vs. used, you are usually within $100 a month for a used vehicle with 90,000 miles vs. new with zero miles.

Back in 2004, I bought a used 1992 Ford F250 supercab 4x4 with 49,000 original miles in excellent condition for $8995. Beautiful truck! I would give my left nut for a truck like that today at that price.

They simply don't exist.

Those days are long gone. Show me a nice condition 4x4 3/4-ton pickup with under 100k miles for under $10k and I will buy it.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm not going to dispute that the country is in a real bad place as far as debt and inflation, but why would you want to buy a brand new truck? Someone must be, but it sure ain't me. I've bought every vehicle I ever had with cash.

I did a search on Autotrader.com for a 1/2-ton 4wd pickup with under 100k miles in your zip code, 57402. First pickup listed was a 2007 Chevy Silverado Work Truck with some body damage for $13,900.

Second cheapest truck for sale was a 2011 Chevy Silverado for $17,950.

Third truck listed for your area was a 2012 Ford F-150 with 90k miles for $19,990.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/truck/aberdeen-sd-57402?dma=&maxMileage=100000&driveGroup=AWD4WD&sellerTypes=d%2Cp&searchRadius=100&location=&marketExtension=include&isNewSearch=true&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&numRecords=25
If you can come up with nearly $20k cash to pay for a decent pickup, then you are doing quite well. Pretty sure most of us don't have that kind of cash laying around.

[tomme boy]

Brother just bought a 21 crew cab loaded with lift kit and bigger tires here for 42K. Search a little more

[Idaho45guy]

Brother just bought a 21 crew cab loaded with lift kit and bigger tires here for 42K. Search a little more

So, I should drive 1400 miles to save $5k on a new pickup? Would you? As a rule, I don't buy Midwest vehicles. Used Midwest vehicles are junk due to rust and abuse. But, new Midwest vehicles are sometimes a bargain. Had a buddy drive to Wisconsin to buy a new RV camper and saved $8k over what it would cost out here. Midwest prices on boats can be a deal as well. My brother-in-law goes to the midwest to buy used tractors to rebuild and sell out here for thousands of dollars of profit.

[kenton]

Was going over the remaining financial obligation for my 2019 Toyota 4Runner. I love it, and it will be a great vehicle for at least another ten years if I keep it. But, I would like a 1/2-ton pickup to tow a 22' RV camper, or a half cord of firewood, or whatever you need a 1/2-ton pickup for. So, naturally I looked at Toyota Tundras. The cheapest I could find within 100 miles was $48,000. For a pretty basic 1/2-ton pickup. The "fancy" ones were $52,000 and up.

So, since i have $6,000 worth of equity in my current vehicle, I would need to finance $42,000 in order to buy a new pickup. To keep the payments to where I could afford them, I would have to get an 84 month loan at 2.5% interest, even with my excellent credit score.

That's seven years of payments at $536 a month to buy a modest 1/2-ton pickup truck! That is insane! My house payment on a 3-bedroom home in a nice neighborhood is $575 a month.

I called my dad to discuss the dilemma, and he pointed out that in a couple of years, when my 4Runner is paid off, that interest rates may be up around 8-10% on new vehicles. And prices for new pickups may be nearly twice what they are today due to inflation.

He lived through the 70's and Jimmy Carter and idiotic economic policies. He thinks Joe Biden is leading us directly into historically high interest rates and crippling inflation.

He advised me to keep my 4Runner and pay it off and put extra money aside. He said he thinks economic end times are about to hit and a $400 car payment and a $575 house payment are extremely valuable and to not jeopardize either. He thinks the days of Americans moving slowly up the ladder of economic prosperity are over. That the dream of having a nicer vehicle and bigger home with just a bit more hard work and a promotion is gone. We are about to enter a winter of inflation and devaluation of the dollar.

Seems like now is the time to lock in a $48,000 pickup at 2% finance rate if in a couple of years, the same pickup will cost me $60,000 at 5% interest, right?

Whatever happens, I just can't believe that a pickup costs a year's wages or more these days.

My grandpa made $32,000 a year in 1979 as a union carpenter. He bought a brand new 1979 F150 XLT pickup regular cab 2wd for $5,500.

That brand new pickup cost him 1/5 of his year's wages. Today, a new F150 like my Grandpa's would cost $35,000.

In 2021, union carpenter wages are about twice what my grandpa made, or $28 an hour. That equals about $56,000 a year.

So today, a new F150 costs more than half of a year's wages in today's wages. Used to cost a fifth of a year's wages.

This is why the middle class is disappearing and why people are struggling. Nobody wants to talk about it or acknowledge it. But the facts are the facts.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

According to this inflation calculator $32,000 in Jan 1979 comes out to $125,120. $5,500 comes out to $21,505. Looks like trucks have increased in price and the wages haven't kept up with inflation.

Wish I knew the solution.

[GARD72977]

If you want a new truck and you can afford it buy one.

No telling what stupid regulations are coming for gas vehicles. Intrest rate is good and every thing is going up in price.

Any body that put off building anything cant afford lumber prices now.

[Krag 1901]

When I bought my GMC 1500 club cab 4WD pickup in '92 for $24,000! I thought I'd drive it until the wheels fell off. It now has about 180,000 miles and is still going strong. Every time I think i'd like a newer smaller truck, I check prices of 3-4 year old trucks and just say, Jimmy your good for another 100,000 miles!

[bakerjw]

I went in to a dealer looking to get a new F-150. Sticker prices were in the high $40s. The truck that I ended up getting stickered at $48K but with incentives came down to $35K. Even though I get X-Plan pricing, I would have paid more going that route. I financed it and paid it off in 18 months or so.
We have zero debts so financing a vehicle that I can pay off in less than 2 years is fine for me.

Right now it is a sellers market. Supplies are lean and prices are high. A guy that I know bought a truck for $33K and had a dealer offer him $37K on trade. It's nuts out there right now.

Your best bet? Keep what you have and pay it off as fast as possible.

[downzero]

The problem was looking at Toyotas. Trucks are profitable products and even though Toyota is, depending on who you ask, at best an "even" competitor, their products, new and used, command a premium.

Say what you will about the big three, but pickups are their game. Shop around some and you might find that you don't need that kind of money to get into a good one.

I bought a new truck 16 years ago, it's long paid off, and I hope to have it at least another ten years before I let it go and get another new one. I figure a man can buy a new pickup every 25 years or so.

[jessdigs]

The time to buy a tundra was late 2019 early 2020. I put 15 down on my 2019 limited TRD, to get the payment down to $600, and got 0% financing for 60 months. My co workers uncle owns two Toyota dealerships, and I paid $200 more than they paid for it. No dealer markups, no BS. My mom just bought a Tacoma and all we could do was MSRP but they removed the $2500 dealer markup. She got 2.9%

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[MrWolf]

Lock in low rates now folks. For those to young to remember, rates at one time were near 20%. If you have an adjustable rate mortgage, refinance and get a fixed one. Get those credit cards paid off or take an equity line if you can and pay them off. Things will be just like the latter 70's again.

[Gator 45/70]

I'd keep the Tundra for a knock around plywood hauler and find some old man that just kicked the bucket and granny wants to sell out...cheap
Several times a year I see these package deals, Truck and camper combo for sale.
One thing about old men, They tend to take care of what they own.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

you need one of those new F150 electric trucks like Biden was driving yesterday...He even offered to drive over a reporter with it, when the reporter asked a question that Biden didn't like. Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!

[jgstrug]

I agree that the new truck prices are insane, and that is why I don't have one. My old trucks definitely are lacking in some areas, but I put money in shooting gear, and get by with used up vehicles.

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[tja6435]

Seems like getting a trailer is the cheapest and easiest solution. You can haul whatever and more than you could haul in a half ton pickup. And you can just disconnect the trailer and leave it full if you aren’t feeling like unloading everything before you have to head somewhere.

[Cargo]

Financially you could possibly come out better by purchasing a used truck through your bank. New trucks are much like current ammo prices, the reason prices are so insane is because people are lined up and willing to be raped.

IMHO, the 50k 1/2 ton falls far short of a 25k 3/4 ton everyday of the week. Most especially in the mountains.

[30calflash]

Toyotas go for more $$ than other brands, it's a good truck backed by a good company, period.

Put the $536 a month aside until something worthwhile used comes up. If things start sliding downhill there will be a lot of late model trucks for sale.

[contender1]

Boy, we must be on the same wavelength.

I'm in need of a new truck for work & daily use. My current Chevy Silverado has 345000 miles on it. I can't even get a similar truck right now, as they aren't being made. I need a Silverado, 4x4, standard bed, extended cab, or 4 door, with a V-8 engine.
I've had a dealership working on TRYING to order me one & they aren't making any.

Communism, "Take what we have & want you to have,, not what you want or can pay for."

[Joe504]

If you are not all ready, spend a few dollars a month on silver, how ever you can get it.

If you prepare for inflation, and it never comes, you will be happy it never happened, but if you dont prepare and it does hit....

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[popper]

SIL is looking for a PU, good luck I say. Needs to replace his kid's 98 burb with the 2006 4runner. You can haul more weight with the 4runner but need an aftermarket hitch frame. My 2004 had the frame hitch dingy, totaled when rear ended as it bent the frame (well it was a 10 ton truck that hit it). 2006 didn't have the dingus so I put Uhaul bolt on. Gave it to daughter and it got rear ended. Minor damage! Friend got a Ford PU last year, only one with available rear end to haul weight, Dodge &Chevy ratios are wonky.

[Handloader109]

NEVER buy new unless you are a millionaire. Even a pickup. $40 to $50 k for a truck is insanity. And you guys that moan about a $2000 repair? Think of that as ONLY 4 months of a loan. And if you get a year out of the repair, you've SAVED $4000. $500 a month is $6 k a year. Insanity. I bought a 2005 F150 Loaded with everything including leather in 2014 for $11000. It had 95K miles on it. It now has 223,000 miles on it and I've spent money on brakes, tires, battery, two sets of the stupid individual cylinder coils and one set of plugs. Plus the major issue was the brake cylinders failing on the front last year. That was $400. The rest was normal maintenance. In over 75 months of ownership the truck cost me $147 a month if I were to just scrap it. And it is still worth $3 or 4K. So maybe $100 a month. I've saved $400x75 or $30,000 in that time on just what would be the difference in new vs used. Now, can I buy a 2014 to 2015 right now for $10k? NO, probably $20,000. but again, I'm saving big $ over new.

[BigAlofPa.]

Im in the market for a 4-6000.00 vehicle. Not happening the dealers tell me. All im finding is junk or more than i want to spend on private sales. I did find a Kia sportage with 125,000 miles for 3500.00 but it was converted to a right side driver for mail delevery. You cant see the speedometer and gauges from the right side. I don't have credit. Never took out a loan. Always paid cash. Even my house i bought outright.

[725]

Your Dad is right. Honestly, my 2003 Tarus won't last forever and lately I've been contemplating building a kit car to replace it. I'd rather spend $15000 for a homebuilt than twice that for a car full of gadgets I don't want or need. I helped a neighbor build one 40 years ago and it was fun and almost easy. New engine & trans on a donor frame and finished off with the kit. Other than frustration and bruised knuckles, I'm looking for the down side. I have a monster shop to keep the project out of the weather for as long as needed, and have my truck (1993) to get around in, in the meantime. Oh, to win the lottery!

[Scrounge]

Was going over the remaining financial obligation for my 2019 Toyota 4Runner. I love it, and it will be a great vehicle for at least another ten years if I keep it. But, I would like a 1/2-ton pickup to tow a 22' RV camper, or a half cord of firewood, or whatever you need a 1/2-ton pickup for. So, naturally I looked at Toyota Tundras. The cheapest I could find within 100 miles was $48,000. For a pretty basic 1/2-ton pickup. The "fancy" ones were $52,000 and up.

So, since i have $6,000 worth of equity in my current vehicle, I would need to finance $42,000 in order to buy a new pickup. To keep the payments to where I could afford them, I would have to get an 84 month loan at 2.5% interest, even with my excellent credit score.

That's seven years of payments at $536 a month to buy a modest 1/2-ton pickup truck! That is insane! My house payment on a 3-bedroom home in a nice neighborhood is $575 a month.

I called my dad to discuss the dilemma, and he pointed out that in a couple of years, when my 4Runner is paid off, that interest rates may be up around 8-10% on new vehicles. And prices for new pickups may be nearly twice what they are today due to inflation.

He lived through the 70's and Jimmy Carter and idiotic economic policies. He thinks Joe Biden is leading us directly into historically high interest rates and crippling inflation.

He advised me to keep my 4Runner and pay it off and put extra money aside. He said he thinks economic end times are about to hit and a $400 car payment and a $575 house payment are extremely valuable and to not jeopardize either. He thinks the days of Americans moving slowly up the ladder of economic prosperity are over. That the dream of having a nicer vehicle and bigger home with just a bit more hard work and a promotion is gone. We are about to enter a winter of inflation and devaluation of the dollar.

Seems like now is the time to lock in a $48,000 pickup at 2% finance rate if in a couple of years, the same pickup will cost me $60,000 at 5% interest, right?

Whatever happens, I just can't believe that a pickup costs a year's wages or more these days.

My grandpa made $32,000 a year in 1979 as a union carpenter. He bought a brand new 1979 F150 XLT pickup regular cab 2wd for $5,500.

That brand new pickup cost him 1/5 of his year's wages. Today, a new F150 like my Grandpa's would cost $35,000.

In 2021, union carpenter wages are about twice what my grandpa made, or $28 an hour. That equals about $56,000 a year.

So today, a new F150 costs more than half of a year's wages in today's wages. Used to cost a fifth of a year's wages.

This is why the middle class is disappearing and why people are struggling. Nobody wants to talk about it or acknowledge it. But the facts are the facts.

I bought a house in Las Vegas in early 1979, with a GIBill guaranteed mortage. My interest rate was 9.25%, about 6 months later, one of the Master Sergeants I knew bought his house. 18% interest. Knowing what I know, if I were you, I'd buy a good used pickup, and save my pennies. SWMBO wants to move back to Florida, now. With what I'm seeing, it ain't happening anytime soon. I still owe $35K+ a bit. House isn't worth enough to even make a down payment on what we want, which would be minimum 3BR, 2bath, with a workshop. Last time I was in Florida, in the mid-80's, I couldn't get what I want for what I could afford to pay now. Pretty sure we're stuck in OKC. Cost of living here is lower than there, anyway. Only problem is that it is sooooo far to get to a nice beach.

[Burnt Fingers]

There's a Dodge dealer in Waxahachie that has Ram 1500 trucks for around $23K. Pickup prices can really vary around the country.

[Ickisrulz]

NEVER buy new unless you are a millionaire. Even a pickup. $40 to $50 k for a truck is insanity. And you guys that moan about a $2000 repair? Think of that as ONLY 4 months of a loan. And if you get a year out of the repair, you've SAVED $4000. $500 a month is $6 k a year. Insanity. I bought a 2005 F150 Loaded with everything including leather in 2014 for $11000. It had 95K miles on it. It now has 223,000 miles on it and I've spent money on brakes, tires, battery, two sets of the stupid individual cylinder coils and one set of plugs. Plus the major issue was the brake cylinders failing on the front last year. That was $400. The rest was normal maintenance. In over 75 months of ownership the truck cost me $147 a month if I were to just scrap it. And it is still worth $3 or 4K. So maybe $100 a month. I've saved $400x75 or $30,000 in that time on just what would be the difference in new vs used. Now, can I buy a 2014 to 2015 right now for $10k? NO, probably $20,000. but again, I'm saving big $ over new.


I see 2015 F-150s going for $20K-30K. That's an awful lot of money for a six year old vehicle that is out of warranty. For not much more (relatively speaking, and at a lower interest rate) you can buy a new one.

I bought a 2020 F-250 6.7 CC 4x4 in Nov. It made more sense to me than buying one 4 or 5 years old at $40K-$60K.

[MT Gianni]

If you can't drive to CDA, or Kellog and get a better deal on a better truck to pull, I'm sorry for you. I am 280 miles away and wouldn't shop anywhere else.

[megasupermagnum]

Geez, if you want a new vehicle, buy a new vehicle. You honestly don't trust a 2007 with 210,000 miles on it to dive anywhere besides town? Good god almighty man, you don't need to insult me because you are too insecure in your own abilities. AAA insurance is exactly for that.

[DougGuy]

I ain't ever bought a new vehicle. Pd cash for used, put new parts in them, drove them until those parts wore out and sold them.

I got sick and tired of GM 4.3L motors with NO power and NO torque, so I went with Nissan this time, 4.0L runs it's BUTT off, but everything on it costs 3x more than the GM equivalent.

I got a Craigslist 2008 Xterra 2wd, put a motor in it, radiator, exhaust, tires and brakes, and a decent head unit that plays mp3s off usb. It went to Florida and back with nary a hiccup, got 20mpg good power good torque on the big road, this was supposed to be my work truck but it earned daily driver status over the Chevy Blazer 4wd with the 4.3 motor.

I really can't complain, I got just what I paid for.

[PhilC]

In June 2005 I bought an '04 Ranger SuperCab XLT, 4WD, 4.0 SOHC, 5R55E, factory tow package, 4.10s w/limited slip - it had 2,107mi on it and is closest I've ever gotten to new. Today it has 119k and has been the most trouble free vehicle I've ever owned. It gets 19.8mpg on the highway and has pulled our 20' Hewescraft well over 15,000mi. Original owner left the receipt in the glove box, he paid just under $26k and 10mos later I drove it home for $19k after purchasing from same dealer he bought it from.

[megasupermagnum]

To those with a Ford 4.0 SOHC engine, be aware that engine has a fatal self destruct flaw. The 4.0 SOHC is a jimmy rigged engine, modified from the 4.0 OHC. It is the only one of it's kind with the design I have ever seen. The SOHC has two HUGE timing chains, and sometimes a third smaller one. They can not be replaced without special knowledge, and it's best to use the special tool set. One of them is in the rear of the engine. You can not replace that chain without pulling out the engine. Once the chains are gone, the engine is gone. Now you can replace the chain tensioners, and you should. Ford recommends replacing them every 70,000 miles. Do not brush this off. I've never seen a 4.0 SOHC that lasted without maintenance. Sometimes a lucky one makes it past 200,000 miles, but then sure enough bad rattle one day, valve through a piston the next.

These chain tensioners are a pain in the butt to replace, but it isn't the end of the world. There is nothing special about them. You probably need some torx bits, as Ford loves them, but the tensioners themselves are just threaded in from the outside.

If it ever starts to rattle, it's gone. Don't even bother to replace the chains. I've done two now. One still runs as far as I know. The other never even got started again before it was junked. When the chains fail, plastic bits and metal pieces end up EVERYWHERE. It is not fun to clean out. It would be a good excuse to swap to a 302 V8.

The 5R55E transmission is ok, nothing really good or bad about them.

[Winger Ed.]

There's a Dodge dealer in Waxahachie that has Ram 1500 trucks for around $23K. Pickup prices can really vary around the country.

A lot has to do with the option package, title fees, taxes, "make ready" & transport fees,
and 'got ya' items like $200 for "paint protection"--- basically a wax job.

They often advertise a price of $XXX, 'plus--- tax, title, license, dealer prep, and a small destination fee'.
After you sat in the clastraphobic little closing office, and got the final paper work, there was a "Whoa! moment".

When I bought my fleet F-250, Ford had a site with 'build this truck'.

It started with a base model, and as you added options- the price and weight figures went up.
Just a leather bench seat was an extra $1,000. Fancy rims & tires could bump it $5-7,000. And so on.

In 2006:
Back then, a fancy F-150 was around $35,000.
My stripped down F-250 was $21K and change with a 6speed & 5.4 gas V8.
My neighbor bought the tricked out F-250 with a Diesel, and his was $55,000.

[Tracy]

Water pump for 1966 F100, 240 6 cylinder: $44.99 at Autozone with a lifetime warranty. Same thing for the 352 V8 is $51.99. Gas to drive 200 miles at 15 mpg and $3 per gallon is $40.

[Lloyd Smale]

first new vehicle was a 73 340 duster. It cost 3400 bucks i made 3800 that year in the service. second new one was a 77 chev k10. It was 6400 and i made about that in the service that year. You can wait a couple years and then they will force you to buy an electric truck at 2 or 3 times the price. If you can get 2 percent interest on a new car load id be running not walking to get that truck. Yup a 600 dollar payment sucks but factor in your paying for 7 years but will drive it for 3 times that if you keep it up. Then you snooze and a year from now your motor blows and you find thanks to biden that 50k truck now cost 70k. If i guessed id say with him in office if you bought it now for 50 you could probably still get 50 for it 3 years from now after prices soar and interest rates are 10 percent instead of 3. trucks and cars are never a good investment but we NEED them and right now just might be the smartest time in your life to buy one.

[flyingmonkey35]

I sent you a pm on the side about my truck.

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[dverna]

My last purchase was in the fall of 2019. Got a 2016 F150 with 134k miles for $19k. In 1 1/2 years I have put on 23k with no repairs. Will need tires and brakes next year. A new one was about $55k.

It is not uncommon to see vehicles go 250-300k mikes with no major repairs. I figured I would get another 150k miles out if it....12 years. With the money I saved ($35k) I earn about $2k a year. That pays for a lot of repairs if I ever need them.

[Idaho45guy]

Water pump for 1966 F100, 240 6 cylinder: $44.99 at Autozone with a lifetime warranty. Same thing for the 352 V8 is $51.99. Gas to drive 200 miles at 15 mpg and $3 per gallon is $40.

Not in 1990.

[ShooterAZ]

Things aren't going to get better anytime soon either, because of the computer chip shortage. This is now driving the cost of even used vehicles way up, the dealerships are way behind in getting inventory of new cars and trucks. Now is not really a good time to buy any vehicle period, because they're getting top dollar for both new and used. Keep your 4Runner and hang tight until the computer chip problem corrects itself is what I'd recommend.

[marlin39a]

I traded my 2013 FJ Cruiser, for a new 2019 Tundra, in January 2019. Did it through the Toyota dealer in Flagstaff. They wanted my FJ, and made me great deal. I use it to tow my 2019 Winnebago. Just do what you need to do to be happy. Life is too short.

[jgstrug]

The one I have been driving for the past 15 years is for sale 2k.I don't think it has one computer chip!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210519/52dcc2ef168a6eb8277fd92e7c418e17.jpg

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[chambers]

Was looking to upgrade my Chevy vehicle that had too many trips to the dealer, looked at Christmas time and very few new vehicles, waited about 2 months and found used GM executive Suburban vehicle(s) with all between 12,000 to 15,000 miles and purchased one and traded in my 2008'. Best decision I ever made, let the first person take the large depreciation. Have factory warranty on vehicle.
Now I still have my hunting original suburban from 2001' that I purchased new and runs like a champ, but the body is now showing it's age. I am going to run this until it dies and has also been a great vehicle with little maintenance. If you find a vehicle that runs good and doesn't nickle and dime you that is the one to keep for the long haul.

[Idaho45guy]

The one I have been driving for the past 15 years is for sale 2k.I don't think it has one computer chip!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210519/52dcc2ef168a6eb8277fd92e7c418e17.jpg

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That's a rare gem! It is probably worth a bit more than that.

[jgstrug]

That's a rare gem! It is probably worth a bit more than that.Yeah, it's hard to think about getting rid of it, it is ultra reliable and cheap to maintain. Not very comfortable by today's standards though. Just bought a new set of good Toyo tires for it for 300$!

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[B R Shooter]

I have an '05 Dodge Cummins, 125K miles, bought new. I just had it painted, and will continue to replace things preventatively, cause I aint sinking money into a new, or slightly used truck for what they cost. And I can drive down the road without the seatbelt on and no bells and whistles going off!

[waksupi]

A good used truck is hard to beat. I have never bought a vehicle with under 60,000 miles on it. It takes that long for all the manufacturing bugs to get shook out. I like government fleet vehicles, and have had good luck with them. The pickup I had before my current one, had few repairs, and after driving it for eight years, got $200 more than I had paid for it when I sold.

[Lloyd Smale]

I traded my 2013 FJ Cruiser, for a new 2019 Tundra, in January 2019. Did it through the Toyota dealer in Flagstaff. They wanted my FJ, and made me great deal. I use it to tow my 2019 Winnebago. Just do what you need to do to be happy. Life is too short.

thats my theory. I love my vehicles like my guns. Life to short to settle for less then you have to. Funny to me some that will bash a guy for buying a new truck but dont bat an eyelash at buying a boat if they fish or a snomobile or motorcyle if thats what there into. You only have so many days till you arrive at judgement day. Cant take it with you. My dad is the polar opposite of me. He could buy 5 new trucks cash but drives 95 dakota. Hes 89. Why it gives him so much enjoyment to look at a bank account or how good his stocks are doing is beyond me. The day he dies it wont matter what he has.

[HATCH]

I guess it depends on your options.
I just looked at the local dealership
The cheapest MSRP unit was $39361
Keep in mind its a 2wd model and that is MSRP. That doesn't include rebated or anything else.
You might need to shop around a little while longer.

[Finster101]

I'm with Lloyd on this one. If you want a new one , buy it! I like my creature comforts in what some refer to as a city truck, but it tows my trailer with whatever I need in it and anything that can fit in the bed goes in there even if it makes a mess. I have a hose and soap for that. I would rather drive my truck than the wife's Cadillac and I paid for it to be that way. I won't ride around in a piece of junk. I've worked too hard to not have to.

[megasupermagnum]

I sure hope I didn't come across as bashing anyone who wanted to buy a new vehicle. That is not the case at all. I just think it extremely odd that someone who wants a new car or truck so they can have all these bells and whistles, is also complaining that they have to pay for all these bells and whistles. You know the saying "wish in one hand".

There is a lot wrong with this country right now, but the cost of cars is not one. You wanted brand new cars with every feature a rich man can ask for... well you got it. They make what sold.

[Finster101]

I just retired from a Chey, Buick, GMC dealership. We could not keep trucks in stock. Most were sold before coming off the transport truck and then we would have to get the PDI done ASAP for delivery. We sold a lot of 55K to 85K trucks. Somebody is buying them.

[Lloyd Smale]

i agree totally. I worked hard to be in a position that I can afford one. Beat my body up for 8 years in the service broke my back and shattered my hip and ankle there and did therapy for 2 years. Could have gone home on disabilty then no questions asked. But i didnt want to scrap by so i got back in shape and worked 29 years as an electrical lineman busting my body up. I also had to leave the town mommy and daddy lived in to get the job i had. Guess i could have worked at some crap 20 dollar an hour job and stayed next door to ma and my buddies. But i wanted more. Im retired now and is the time to enjoy life. Yup ive got a truck payment but in 3 years it will be paid for and most likely before then ill get another new one. Probably going to trade my boat in in the next couple years too on another new one. A much worse investment then a truck.

If im smart about it the day i die i will have 5 bucks in the bank. My wife gets my pension her 401k my social security and my VA pension. She will have a home thats paid for and all my truck loans have life insurance so she will have that paid for too. She will want for nothing. Bottom line is if i drove past the lot tomarow and saw a truck i liked i wouldnt feel guilty trading my 2 year old truck in. What i wont do is take off cross country in a car or truck that has 200k on it and is a ticking time bomb. Ive got a car a jeep and a truck i could fill up and head to the west coast and not be concerned about getting left on the side of the road. If you want to look at numbers in a book or if you didnt make wise decisions and cant afford what someone else can then its you that made the mistake not me buying a truck. For the most part the guys that say its stupid are guys that cant afford to do it. bottom line is 90 percent here could have done the same thing. Many here did and made even more then i do.

[Lloyd Smale]

I just retired from a Chey, Buick, GMC dealership. We could not keep trucks in stock. Most were sold before coming off the transport truck and then we would have to get the PDI done ASAP for delivery. We sold a lot of 55K to 85K trucks. Somebody is buying them.

yup right now your lucky if you can find one. At least one that is what you actually wanted.

[snowwolfe]

Was going over the remaining financial obligation for my 2019 Toyota 4Runner. I love it, and it will be a great vehicle for at least another ten years if I keep it. But, I would like a 1/2-ton pickup to tow a 22' RV camper, or a half cord of firewood, or whatever you need a 1/2-ton pickup for. So, naturally I looked at Toyota Tundras. The cheapest I could find within 100 miles was $48,000. For a pretty basic 1/2-ton pickup. The "fancy" ones were $52,000 and up.

So, since i have $6,000 worth of equity in my current vehicle, I would need to finance $42,000 in order to buy a new pickup. To keep the payments to where I could afford them, I would have to get an 84 month loan at 2.5% interest, even with my excellent credit score.

That's seven years of payments at $536 a month to buy a modest 1/2-ton pickup truck! That is insane! My house payment on a 3-bedroom home in a nice neighborhood is $575 a month.

I called my dad to discuss the dilemma, and he pointed out that in a couple of years, when my 4Runner is paid off, that interest rates may be up around 8-10% on new vehicles. And prices for new pickups may be nearly twice what they are today due to inflation.

He lived through the 70's and Jimmy Carter and idiotic economic policies. He thinks Joe Biden is leading us directly into historically high interest rates and crippling inflation.

He advised me to keep my 4Runner and pay it off and put extra money aside. He said he thinks economic end times are about to hit and a $400 car payment and a $575 house payment are extremely valuable and to not jeopardize either. He thinks the days of Americans moving slowly up the ladder of economic prosperity are over. That the dream of having a nicer vehicle and bigger home with just a bit more hard work and a promotion is gone. We are about to enter a winter of inflation and devaluation of the dollar.

Seems like now is the time to lock in a $48,000 pickup at 2% finance rate if in a couple of years, the same pickup will cost me $60,000 at 5% interest, right?

Whatever happens, I just can't believe that a pickup costs a year's wages or more these days.

My grandpa made $32,000 a year in 1979 as a union carpenter. He bought a brand new 1979 F150 XLT pickup regular cab 2wd for $5,500.

That brand new pickup cost him 1/5 of his year's wages. Today, a new F150 like my Grandpa's would cost $35,000.

In 2021, union carpenter wages are about twice what my grandpa made, or $28 an hour. That equals about $56,000 a year.

So today, a new F150 costs more than half of a year's wages in today's wages. Used to cost a fifth of a year's wages.

This is why the middle class is disappearing and why people are struggling. Nobody wants to talk about it or acknowledge it. But the facts are the facts.

Your forgetting some very important facts. There is a lot more R&D in a vehicle now compared to a basic 1979 model. Fuel economy, power, tons of safety features, back up camera, etc etc etc

Buy what you want and can afford. You can't take money with you when you die. Enjoy life while you can. If I want a new vehicle I'll buy it. At my age (68) I dont care if it makes good financial sense or not. I paid $54,500 for my 2019 Superduty in 2019. 2.5 years later I got $56K for trade on a new GMC Denali PU with all the bells and whistles. So much for being the fool and suffering all the depreciation. And the dealer discounted the GMC $7,000.

Even with the 6.2 V8 the truck is averaging 20.5 mpg for the first 500 miles. Think a 1979 truck would get over 20 mpg with a 420 hp V8 with 460 torque?

We all have different budgets. Just make sure you can afford to take care of your family.

[Huntsman52]

Have you looked at Nissan Titans or the Titan XD? 100k warrenty bumper to bumper. I have the 2018 xd gas, lots of power and price was about 10k than competitors new. Used value for those drops alot as well.

[Idaho45guy]

Have you looked at Nissan Titans or the Titan XD? 100k warrenty bumper to bumper. I have the 2018 xd gas, lots of power and price was about 10k than competitors new. Used value for those drops alot as well.

Good friend of mine bought one a few months ago when his Chevy blew a motor down in Wyoming. He got a nice diesel-powered 4x4 crew cab Titan, brand new, for $29k.

Been in the shop twice so far and has several small issues they can't figure out. He now hates it. Good looking truck, but the reliability ratings on it are pretty bad.

[Lloyd Smale]

i always found it odd that jap cars and trucks like hondas and toyotas had such a good rep for reliablity and nissan is usually listed as the least reliable even when compared to the domestic cars and trucks.

[1006]

When I looked at trucks a few years ago, it seemed that leasing a new one was the best option for me. I would drive it approximately 15 thousand miles a year. Dodge made the only full sized truck that I felt like I could justify paying for, but I grew up not trusting Dodge products. I think I am done with real trucks, unless something changes. I will continue to use my 1985 ElCamino, and may buy the new Honda Truck for my next car.

[bakerjw]

I drive about 5,000 a year total which means that I lose the B2B warranty after 3 years and only have 10K miles or so on vehicles.
There's a lot of equity there so if I trade one in, I only need about a $12K loan. Pay it off in a year and drive new again. If it breaks, I don't have to mess with it.
My plan is a new car and truck right before I retire and then drive those into the ground.

[Idaho45guy]

I think I am done with real trucks, unless something changes. I will continue to use my 1985 ElCamino, and may buy the new Honda Truck for my next car.

Not everybody needs a truck. Only reason I would justify one would be if I got a larger RV. My dad currently has a 24' RV in nice condition that he said I could use anytime, but no way my 4Runner can safely tow it. It's about 6,000 lbs. My other option is to buy a used old class "C" motorhome and use that to camp in and tow my UTV. But those are hard to find for under a few grand in decent shape, it seems.

But if you decide to replace the El Camino, please don't get the Honda Ridgeline. They are an abomination before God. They are basically a minivan with a pickup bed and are the goofiest, stupidest looking vehicles on the road today.

Every single one I've seen was driven by elderly Biden voters. Weirdest thing.

283263

But, then again, people are actually buying the new Chevy HD pickups, which I figured would be outlawed by now for scaring children and causing accidents from people laughing hysterically when they drive by...

283264

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have noticed a bunch of used old class "C" motorhomes for sale in my area. Many are less than $1k. but they either are not running, or they run good but need living quarters fixed. They seemed to appear on FB Marketplace after the movie awards talk about "Nomads"

If you have a FB account, here is a couple.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/548777856095035/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2972962459616074/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

I could imagine either of these two at QuartzSite, AZ

[Idaho45guy]

I have noticed a bunch of used old class "C" motorhomes for sale in my area. Many are less than $1k. but they either are not running, or they run good but need living quarters fixed. They seemed to appear on FB Marketplace after the movie awards talk about "Nomads"

If you have a FB account, here is a couple.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/548777856095035/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2972962459616074/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

I could imagine either of these two at QuartzSite, AZ

My buddy drove from Idaho to Wisconsin to buy a new RV. Saved $8k. My brother drove to Iowa from Idaho to buy a used boat and saved $4k.

Boats and RVs are dirt cheap in the Midwest compared to out here.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

MInnesota is a great place to buy a vintage motorcycles with low miles. we only get about four good months to drive them, so they sit in the garage a large portion of the year.

[megasupermagnum]

No doubt about the boats. I mean, who doesn't have one? I'm fairly sure it is in the MN constitution that a person has a buy a boat before they can have a drivers license. Every property in the state has an old flipped over aluminum boat or five in the weeds.

[farmbif]

there are lots and lots of real good fleet maintained trucks selling each week on gsaauctions.gov actual selling prices are usually way lower that any dealership would cost you.

[Idaho45guy]

Drove down to the town with all of the truck dealers. Checked the Toyota dealer's website and says they just got in a brand new Tundra with no options. It's like their Work Truck edition. No chrome, but still had AC, power windows, cruise, 4x4 and double cab. $39k. Perfect. Could trade in my 4Runner and get into a basic truck and keep the same payments I have now.

So, I roll onto the lot and out runs a salesman, who starts gushing over my 4Runner and says he hopes I'm trading it in since they would love to have it.

I pull up to a row of Tundras, but they are all customized with lift kits and aftermarket rims.

I told the guy that I just checked the website before I drove 50 miles and they had 6 Tundras in stock and one was the basic work truck.

Nope. Apparently, all those trucks are special ordered months ago and just now showed up and are all spoken for. Yet the dealer listed them as in stock on their website.

They actually had NO new Tundras for sale and said all of the used ones were employees vehicles they were selling. Fine, how much for the 2019 SR5 double-cab Tundra with 50K miles on it? Oh, that was the Sales Manager's vehicle and it is only $52k.

It sold new for $45k... Two years and 50k miles later, they want $7,000 more for it. What the heck is going on??

I left the lot bewildered. Well, the Ram dealership showed 8 Ram pickups in stock so I'll go there.

Nope. Same story. Those trucks are all spoken for and we might get one in stock in a couple of weeks, but it will be above MSRP due to demand...

Wow! I had to see it for myself to believe it. The world has gone crazy. So, no new pickup for me.

[Handloader109]

I KNOW I did come off as Negative new truck. But what I know is that about 75% of folks will be forever broke because of New Car Loans. Oh, I want that, yeah, I can pay that $539.99 a month.... now for 72, or even 80 months.. You don't KNOW where life is going to be in 12 months let alone 72. I'm getting to be an older codger and if you can't afford to buy it outright, you CANNOT afford it and you DO NOT HAVE to buy it or even NEED to buy it.

But Yep, do what YOU FEEL like doing not what is Good for you and your family.

It FEELS and IS SO good to have $30k in the bank that I can spend RIGHT NOW if I want and plenty more in retirement accounts. Bought a 3 year old car last year for $22k CASH... No trade in, full cash and it FEELS SO GOOD driving it, even today. Looking at your bank balance to see if you can buy that burger tonight or even if you can buy enough gas for that shiny new pickup to get home from work is a REAL downer. (BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT)

Sorry for the rant, but if ONE person even thinks about this for 2 minutes, it was worth writing.

[Burnt Fingers]

https://www.waxahachiedodgechryslerjeep.com/new-vehicles/commercial-vehicles/

Shop for trucks in markets that sell a lot of trucks.

Just hop on a plane, pick up the truck and drive home.

I'll even meet ya at the airport and take ya to the dealer.

[megasupermagnum]

I KNOW I did come off as Negative new truck. But what I know is that about 75% of folks will be forever broke because of New Car Loans. Oh, I want that, yeah, I can pay that $539.99 a month.... now for 72, or even 80 months.. You don't KNOW where life is going to be in 12 months let alone 72. I'm getting to be an older codger and if you can't afford to buy it outright, you CANNOT afford it and you DO NOT HAVE to buy it or even NEED to buy it.

But Yep, do what YOU FEEL like doing not what is Good for you and your family.

It FEELS and IS SO good to have $30k in the bank that I can spend RIGHT NOW if I want and plenty more in retirement accounts. Bought a 3 year old car last year for $22k CASH... No trade in, full cash and it FEELS SO GOOD driving it, even today. Looking at your bank balance to see if you can buy that burger tonight or even if you can buy enough gas for that shiny new pickup to get home from work is a REAL downer. (BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT)

Sorry for the rant, but if ONE person even thinks about this for 2 minutes, it was worth writing.

I completely agree, but some people have no problem at all living their entire lives living completely on borrowed credit. As long as you can make the payments, there is financially nothing wrong with it. You and I don't do that if possible. Unfortunately it's needed sometimes. I don't know how anyone could ever save up enough cash to buy a house outright in a timely manner.

That's not why I wont buy a new car or truck though, or even one 5 years old. The reason is it would not make me happy at all. Some people seem tickled to be a fully loaded brand new car. I could not care less. I'd rather take that same $50K, and put it to a few big hunting trips. If things settle down next year, hopefully I can pull off an Alaska trip.

[remy3424]

Sounds like you need to just borrower your father's camper and truck....heck, he might just give it to you if you show some interest. Or rent one when you want to go camping or keep bawling about the prices of toys.

[rbuck351]

I do not buy new cars or trucks. I have been an auto mechanic/machinist since I was 18 or so and try to find older cars with good bodies and blown motors, transmissions or other major problems. It's usually not hard because it costs more to have someone fix it than it's worth. My current newest car is a 2001 chevy cavalier that I was given about ten years ago in trade for fixing brakes and rear pinion bearings on a Ford van the person had. The cavalier had a bad rod bearing and crankshaft. and cot me about $70 for parts. I found a used motor on craigs list for $200 for the cavalier with about 115,000 miles on the motor. The motor now has about 260,000 on it and still only uses about a pint of oil in 4 to 5 thousand miles. I have had to replace the starter, fuel pump, and the normal things such as tires, battery, couple of thermostats, oil and filters and such. That has been one of the cheapist cars I have ever had.

My truck is a 98 1/2 Dodge Cummins 3500 dually with a Fisher plow. I paid $7000 for it about 6 years ago as a mechanics special. It had a few issues. The torque converter was bad and the tranny would not shift right. $1600 for a new converter installed and a 10 cent resistor to fix the shifting. Then it lost the injector pump for another $1000 and the steering box for $180. So I'm into it for about $10,000. It came with a beefed up tranny, an Edge chip, 4" exhaust and Gauges. Most folks don't have the skill set to drive old stuff and I can understand the need for them to have reliable transportation. New trucks are really nice but what does a new 1 ton diesel 4x4 cost now $80,000? I can't see me paying that much for a truck.

[bakerjw]

If I can get 72 months with no interest, I will take it every time. I paid off my truck loan in less than 2 years. I can fix all of my own vehicles if needed but if new brings a warranty where someone else has to deal with it, it is worth it to me.

[lksmith]

when I bought my tundra 4wd in 2012, it was ~$33,000. I paid $6k down (sold my old truck to individual for cash) and did 0% financing for 60 months. Payment was 453.94 par month (lower payment than my 2003 chevy that was $27K, due to interest).
I wanted regular cab short bed so had to special order it, but it has the SR5 package, 5.7L V8, towing package, power windows/locks/mirrors, and spray in bedliner. I went with the regular steel factory wheels. Then I got aftermarket tint, tool box, and once the original tires wore out I got aftermarket rims and tires. It is a really sharp ride and I haven't had a lick of trouble out of it. I have used it as a 3/4 ton without issue.
I've pulled a 11k# backhoe on a 5k# trailer (16k# total load), tandem towed a 34ft camper and heavy bass boat at the same time. I also hauled 3k# of material in the bed, and still no problems. I don't recommend doing what I do, but shows you that the tundra's are top notch trucks for those that actually use their trucks. I finally had to change the factory battery this year after nearly 9 years