Need advice on 45 ACP Boolit

[Art in Colorado]

I live in Jefferson County Colorado. My 45 ACP is a 220 Sig. We have had a black bear in our neighborhood the past few years. Have not seen any Lions but they are out there. I am a hand loader but just load plated 230 gr. I have several factory loaded loaded ACP's. Old school Federal and Winchester premium. Not being a caster I am thinking of buying a batch of Rim Rock standard 220 Gr RNFLP for our protection and loading them with 5.5 gr of Winchester 231. Would this be better then the factory hollow points that I have now? We have had a women down in Durango Co. killed and lunched on by a mother black bear and a couple of young ones.

I would be thankful for any advice!!

[Finster101]

I am not the expert here but I would think the RNFLP would be better than hollow points on a bear if you had to use it. I believe you would want penetration and I'm sure bear hide is tough. You are going to hear that .45 ACP is not a bear hunting round but I have a feeling you are not hunting, you just don't want to be lunch.

[Mk42gunner]

What Finster101 said.

The bears in Colorado that I have seen aren't all that big, for bears. I think a .45 ACP that you shoot well should be sufficient bear repellent.

I would definitely prefer a flat meplat compared to a RN or HP in this situation, as I think they will penetrate better and straighter.

Robert

[Burnt Fingers]

If it were me I'd load some Lyman 452423 boolits with a starting load of CFE Pistol. I'd start at 5.2 gr and start going up. You should be able to get that boolit to around 900 fps...if you can handle the recoil.

[TimD]

Not an expert either, but a heavy flat point bullet would be better than a hollow point.

You might find this thread of interest https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?391742-Trail-Guns

[243winxb]

FMJ +P 45 acp ammo. Penetration is needed. See Speer data for 1000 fps handload.

Alliants Blue Dot powder is another one to look at for top velocity.

[relics6165]

I agree with 243winxb, with a 45 ACP for bear, penetration is your first goal. If I was doing this, I would probably try a 230 FMJ as fast as I could get it to go. and still stand it. Remember, it has to feed reliably, too. Maybe a 200 FMJ even faster, but no on the hollow point.

Not sure how relevant this is, but 45 Federal HST +P won't put a cow down reliably with a close range head shot, it won't penetrate the skull...........230 ball works just fine.

[ddixie884]

A flat point will aid in straight line penetration and bone breakage.......

[bigboredad]

If the bear was my problem I would look to be pushing a wide flat point that was 100% reliable as fast ad I could shoot straight. Not sure what powders you have and are available but accurate #5 will give you some great top end loads. But good old unique will work also. Another bullet that I have read that is really good for hunting and penetrating is a 200gr swc. Good luck

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[44MAG#1]

I shoot an Accurate Molds 45-230F and a 45-229N. All the bullet anyone needs.

[Norske]

I like to hunt black bear, but back problems limit me to a ground blind and a chair with an angled backrest. My main gun is my Marlin 1895 45-70with 400 gr bullets and boolits. The backup gun inside the blind with me is a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 Magnum with a Lee 300 gr cast boolit. The Lee 300's nose looks flat at a glance, but it's actually slightly concave. A 45ACP would not be anywhere near my first choice, and I own 3 of them.
Look at the thread about bears and handguns.

[Outpost75]

Speer No.10 and later give .45 ACP load data for 250 lead SWC and 260 JHP which approximate .45 Colt payload and velocity from an M1911 pistol. Try 6 grains Unique or 9 grains Blue Dot with a 255 grain Saeco #255 or similar.

[Win94ae]

One time I was shooting a fresh piece of Shag-bark Hickory (firewood, 7" diameter,) with my 5" 1911, using factory 230gr FMJ. I hit the piece of wood many times but never did it penetrate, not even 1/16 of an inch into bark. I'd be worrying about not hitting the bears skull square, and the bullet deflecting.

...and the bullets I found in the pile of wood, looked perfect, no deformation whatsoever.

[charlie b]

I just buy Buffalo Bore for the times I am going to be in black bear country.

[ddixie884]

I just buy Buffalo Bore for the times I am going to be in black bear country.

Not a bad idea or, a bad investment. It wouldn't take many for familiarization and function. How many bears would a man need to kill?

[magyars4]

As has been stated. Reliability in feeding. Firing and ejecting should be priority number one.
Penetration second....

[pacomdiver]

sounds like a good excuse to justify a 500 smith and wesson Magnum revolver . you dont have to worry if it wont be enough penetration

[44MAG#1]

sounds like a good excuse to justify a 500 smith and wesson Magnum revolver . you dont have to worry if it wont be enough penetration


There one would have to ASSUME the owner of the 500 S&W would practice with the 500 to get to the point where they could get off a good shot DA. Then there is bringing the 500 down from recoil and being able to get off a second shot in a timely and accurate way.
Just hitting the bear anywhere could possibly turn him or cause him to fall so one could unleash another shot. But the BIG question remains is the person going to practice till they get to the level of accuracy and speed to be where they need to be? Most cant hit well DA with a 357 Mag shooting in a calm deliberate manner much less with a 500 Smith and Wesson.
Reality must take over when selecting and purchasing a firearm to be used in a "chips down" situation.
Just because there are people who can do it doesn't mean they abound everywhere.

[rintinglen]

Were it I, I would use the 220 grain RNFLP but I would load them over 6.0 grains of 231, 7.2 grains of Unique, 7.2 grains of Power Pistol or 10 grains of Blue Dot. These are all top end loads for the 225 HP bullet in Speer 13. I would not use these for my everyday practice loads, but simply fam-fire enough to establish my own point of aim. Then I'd carry them in anticipation of need, in lieu of my normal anti-personnel hollow points.
My own SIG 220 has been reliable with everything I have tried in it. I have a similar load using an RCBS 45-230 CM boolit loaded up with Power Pistol, but I carry a magnum revolver while out in the wild. However, dance with the one you brought.

[DougGuy]

A good bowling pin load would be a good black bear load. The pin gun needs as much foot lbs energy as you can get it to shoot, but you have to be good with it's recoil and quick to get back on the target.

I had my best luck with a 255gr LSWC over 700x it cleared the table with an appreciable authority when I did my part. Pins literally lifted off and flew backwards. That was also a magnaported gun so that helped with getting the front sight back on target.

If I had to use a 1911 for black bear, this would be my approach to the load.

[Norske]

As explained by a fly fishing guide who grew up on Kodiak Island, the "Alaska load" is an extended magazine 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot in the chamber and slugs in the magazine. He saw a local law enforcement officer shoot a big coastal bear, and a 12 gauge slug actually broke the bear's pelvis, as well as both shoulders and its neck. So if you own a shotgun, forget handguns and buy some slugs.

[bigboredad]

As explained by a fly fishing guide who grew up on Kodiak Island, the "Alaska load" is an extended magazine 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot in the chamber and slugs in the magazine. He saw a local law enforcement officer shoot a big coastal bear, and a 12 gauge slug actually broke the bear's pelvis, as well as both shoulders and its neck. So if you own a shotgun, forget handguns and buy some slugs.That would be great and the folks in Jefferson county solo probably wouldn't even notice a 12guage with a extended mag as you walked around going to work grocery shopping. Plus it would be super especially trying to conceal it or when you need both hands. Yep that's the winner 12 gauge with an extended mag

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[Norske]

Bear protection and CCW carry for human predators are 2 different things (except maybe in Alaska where bears in city backyards are common).

[onelight]

We had one in Norman Ok. :)
https://www.news9.com/story/60a5d6954979b00be4ab1b8f/game-wardens-confirm-death-of-black-bear-in-backyard-of-norman-home

[charlie b]

I am confident enough to hit what I am aiming at with the .45 and .357. They are easy enough to carry when out fishing in these parts and will handle whatever there is with the heavy loads. I'll never go in grizzly country for fishing/hiking, no desire at all.

[bigboredad]

Bear protection and CCW carry for human predators are 2 different things (except maybe in Alaska where bears in city backyards are common).The bear us in his neighborhood. Pretty sure he won't be hunting the bear in his neighborhood hence the 45 bullet question

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[saz]

Years ago i put together a bowling pin load with a lee 255 rnfp over a light load of red dot. Then my wife wanted to go hiking by herself but couldn't handle my 44 mag (we were living in Alaska, bears are a little latger up there) so i ended up with a stout load of unique under the same boolit. Out of a 5" 1911 it would send at 900ish fps and plenty accurate for face shots on bears. I did not feel she was under gunned at all.

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[Capt.Red.44]

Just my 2c, several of my work associates work and hunt in alaska. All 3 of them have switched over to Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm dangerous game rounds in a Glock 20, 29 or the new 40. One has used three rounds for self defense against a pretty good sized bear with satisfactory results, hes alive and unharmed. Something to look into.