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missionary5155
01-02-2009, 04:03 PM
Happy New Year !
Well I got bored firing RB out of my 18" cylinder barrel. I have a Mossy 12 gauge that came with a 28" Modified barrel. I use it for hunting (rarely) with 2F Black powder loads. 85 grains and an ounce of #6.
But I got to thinking about shooting RB out of the Modified choke and what all I would need to do. My Modified barrel measures .710 at the choke so I was looking to either size down my .685 ball a bit or get a thinner walled shot sleeve. Went to retreive my can of RBīs and no more .685 balls ?? Inside were a whole host of .710 ! Wow How God Blesses.
So now how to propel them down bore (.730) without them rattling all the way to the choke area ? Well I trimmed my standard Yellow Winchester wads down to just below the full circumference of the ball. Nice even push through the barrel up to the choke where minor resistance was offered.
So I cut two and loaded them over 28 grains Unique in a Fedral hull. I have loaded this combination using the .685 ball to much stiffer loads in the cylinder barrel so I figured this was a good starting place.
I fired both this morning up at my little range in a washout. Both fired to point of aim at 25 yards with 1/4 " seperating the entry holes. I chose 25 yards as I had never fired this barrel with RB prviously and had no idea where it might impact. Target was a 8x11 white sheet with a 1 1/2" black circle. This "Dot" made the perfect aimpoint for this barrels front bead. There was a stiff cross wind and both my wads fly away down the hillside and are lost in the scrub somewhere. I really wanted to retreive these to see how far the ball "smash seated" into the shot cup base and how much petal damage was sustained going through the choke....
But there were no pressure signs on the hulls or primers and the metal bases show little case expansion over Unfired cases. The barrel choke showed no lead at the choke so apparently the wad formed around the ball the whole trip through barrel and choke.
So as soon as possible I will load 5 more and fire at 50 yards.
Plus I will load one each with 29, 30 , and 31 grains Unique. I may not fire them all... everything depends how the previous lower charge shows pressure building.
This batch of RBīs was cast with a mix that seems about as hard as WW. I have no way to test hardness and the source of the lead only knew it was some lead he found at the local "baranca".
May have to make a set of rifle sights for this barrel.
God Bless you All. :coffee:

longbow
01-03-2009, 03:42 AM
missionary:

I will be most interested to hear how longer distance works out.

I bought 3 RB moulds several months ago ~ each with a purpose:

- 0.662" for use in a shot cup (slightly small I know but I "patch")
- 0.715" for use in my BPS smothbore slug barrel with improved cylinder choke (HAH! We'll get to that)
- 0.735" to be shot naked through cylinder bore.

So far as I have reported, the 0.662" patched and in a shotcup has given decent performance of about 4" at 50 yards through both cylinder bore and the BPS "I/C" choke.

The 0.735" naked has done about the same as the 0.662" at about 4" through cylinder bore only of course.

The 0.715" was one I figured I would have no problems with but... one should actually mike the barrel before ordering a mould! My 0.715" mould casts 0.716" with wheelweights and it turns out that my BPS I/C choke mikes at 0.711". Rather tight for an I/C choke methinks! Certainly too tight for a 0.716" ball anyway.

I now have the option of sizing the RB's but would also need a method of guiding them (AQ/Brenneke style?) so the sized band meets the barrel or reaming/honing out my choke to suit. I suspect the latter method will win.

The thought was that I have this nice smootbore barrel with nice rifle sights and a 0.715" ball is nice to cast, easy to load, just the right weight and... just a bit too big! I think a round ball no more than thou or two oversize for the choke ought to shoot pretty well.

All in all I have mucked about quite a bit with various slugs and some have shot pretty well but I still have a bent for round ball. I haven't started honing the BPS choke yet but plan to.

Your 0.710's would suit me just fine!

Also, as a side note, do you use a hard card wad or filler under the ball? I have had several shotcup failures using round ball in a shotcup without a filler or hard card wad. The shotcup tends to form around the ball and crack. I am normally using Blue Dot so a little slower than Unique and so far 38 grs. has been my max. load under any ball.

Please keep us keep us posted.

Longbow

missionary5155
01-07-2009, 06:59 PM
Good afternoon
Finally got back out to my mountain side range located in a washout about 20 minutes away from our home.
Got things set up to 50 yard shooting from a sitting position. Actually had to set up at 57 yds to see target. Fired first shot and no hit on my 9x12 target. I had figured with it being 25 yards more to put my aiming spot 3" down from target top... or 3" higher than my 25 yd aim point. Well I looked about the target area and it looked maybe first shot was low.
I decided to move up to 40 yards to get on paper. Fired from 40 but aiming 1
" higher. This RB took off the top of my target suport located 1" down from target top. Target frame desroyed. So again looking about target area I found about where the first shot went... about 2" over target frame.
So I will make a taller and wider target frame and resume shooting another day.
I did recover the second shot wad. The ball had momentum seated about 1/8 inch back into the shotcup... I had expected that. One petal was completely torn off and a second most of the way.
I will rethink my wad configuration probably removing the collapsable part of the wad and filling that space with COW for better ball support.
God Bless you all.

longbow
01-07-2009, 08:58 PM
Missionary:

Generally I have had problems using shot cups unless the ball fits right in and a little loose (or at least not real tight).

I have been thinking on a couple of ideas, one that James mentioned which is to punch a hole in a card wad so the ball will sit centered as it travels down the bore and the other is a home made ball carrier to sit in a shotcup (whether cut down or not).

Punching or drilling a card wad would require a jig to maintain accuracy and consistency but is pretty easy to try for a few balls.

A ball carrier could be made from a paper mache or other material mixed with water then formed to the right shape. Corbin at one point mentioned that cornstarch could be pressed into a plastic like material for such use (needs a swaging press though).

Anyway, my thought is that a ball carrier of some material would take care of the set back the likely pinches petals.

Once it quits snowing here I will get back to ball shooting!

Longbow

jsizemore
01-07-2009, 11:15 PM
If you looking to transfer the force of the roundball setback to the outer edge(s) of the shotcup, how about a piece of plastic plumbing pipe. I just stuck a piece of 1/2" Qest Pex pipe in a claybuster 12 ga wad and I could just push the petals closed around the pipe. I chamfered the sharp inside edge off the plastic pipe with a case chamfering tool. Should keep the plastic pipe from deforming the roundball. Maybe that would solve the crushing of the petals on the wad.

missionary5155
01-08-2009, 06:39 AM
Good morning
Thanks Jsizemore.... thats an idea... I have been scrounging around my "cubicle" (it has been called other things) hunting misc. stuff... Have thought about leather washers also. Have to open the plumbing drawer....
God Bless you !

yondering
01-09-2009, 12:01 AM
The cornstarch bit got me thinking: It shouldn't be too hard to make a forming die that would form a "cup" with a ball shaped depression and flat bottom from cornstarch or a similar material to use under round balls.

About a .680" hole in a piece of solid steel stock would work for the die, and a large ball bearing to press down into the hole, after the right amount of cornstarch put in the hole. Press it solid, then eject it out the bottom of the die. A powder measure or Lee dippers should work for dispensing corn starch.

Might have to try this at some point...

missionary5155
01-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Good evening
I made it out to my range today and fired two .710 RB loads. Both were the same except the second load had the addition on a 5/8 OD water pipe beveled end "Ball Support" inserted into the wad cup under the ball. Jsizemore sugested the idea. It may really work. My test load without the Ball Support was spread out about 8 " at 40 yards. (Due to cactus, dips, and obstructions the next opening is 57 yards)
The load with the Ball Support shot 3 into 1.5 inches (measured) with one shot off to the right about 3". That cartridge was strange from the start. It was the second of that group of 4. It loaded hard. On firing recoil was stiffer. Ejection was difficult. Something was out of norm.
I will refire that load with the Ball Support. I did recover one wad from that group and this is the first time this particular type wad did NOT collapse in the center. Everything I can see suggests the Ball Support works well. But I will retest and see if the group is repeatable with 4 rounds. Why 4? I am running out of Unique and balls.
If this test repeats positive I will include fotos and complete data. Might have time Monday morning.

longbow
01-10-2009, 02:18 AM
I am going to have to do some more checking on plastic pipe OD's. I had thought about parting off short rings as ball supports either on hard card wads or inside shotcups but the plastic pipe I have found locally (so far anyway) is either too small or too large. The large stuff I can machine the OD to suit barrel or shotcup but then it becomes a pile of work again.

I guess for a test I can machine some if necessary. At least it is nice to know it has potential since you guys are getting good results.

I will see what I can find but it will be a while before I can shoot. We have so much snow here it is unbelievable ~ double our normal December snowfall and more predicted this coming weekend and next week.

This is definitely interesting ~ not the snow, your ball support results!

Longbow

jsizemore
01-10-2009, 04:24 PM
The 1/2" Qest Pex I measured had an outside diameter of .63". Fits in a 12ga wad shot cup with a little room to spare. Home improvement centers have it in the plumbing section and it comes in white or red color.

longbow
01-11-2009, 12:32 AM
I am going to have to take some calipers to the plumbing shop. I know I didn't find anything suitable for bore size and don't have anything suitable for shotcups I have but that is a good point. The combination of plastic pipe and shotcups might work out well especially for balls that fit into the shotcup without cutting petals.

If it is quick and easy, I'm in!

Longbow

bobk
01-11-2009, 03:48 PM
Now, please bear with me, as I am not sure I understand the concept, but if you're looking for something to support the ball, I offer some options. I'm referring to Federal wads, specifically 12S3s and 20S1s. You could cut the base section off these wads, which appear quite sturdy, and use them reversed to cup the ball. You could use the 20 if you are loading a ball within your wad and the 12 if you are shooting bare, bore-sized balls. Both wads have an annoying little tit in the center of the base, but a Dremel would cure that. Does this look feasible? I could even use this shooting bare with a .598 LEE ball in the 20. This might be more important if shooting soft lead, which appears to mush out in the barrel, and I suspect may raise pressures. I shoot AC WW anyway, so that doesn't apply to me.
Bob K

jsizemore
01-11-2009, 06:19 PM
Does that 20ga. powder cup fit inside the 12ga. shotcup wad? If it does that would be worth a try.

bobk
01-11-2009, 08:19 PM
Yes, the 20 fits inside a 12, at least on a few I tried. This would be easy with the 20, for me. Cut the base off one wad, petals off the other, and regulate crimp with card wads. In the 12 I have a Dixie mold that casts .720, to fit an Ithaca that goes .719 at the muzzle. I had a load, which I forgot, that did 2" or so at 50 yards, smoothbore, scoped with a 2 1/2 Bushnell Banner. Found another one of those at a gunshow, grabbed it, too.

Longbow has posted his Blue Dot loads, and I'm sure he's very careful, but I'm afraid of that powder. The powder I had used was HS-6. Got the load out of a Handloader many years ago, can't find the blessed thing! I doubt that powder makes much of a difference as far as accuracy goes. I think fit is the main thing. I'm fairly safe, in that the Ithaca is the tightest gun I have. Any other gun may not be as accurate, but it won't blow up or anything.

I'm beginning to think that the 20 might be the way to go, period. It shows similar penetration to the 12, and similar trajectory, so either one is going to kill a whitetail deer, within 100 yards. The 20 I've been playing with is an old single my Dad had. Not much of a buckshot gun, but shoots slugs. I need to figure out some sort of rear sight to raise the POI.
Bob K

missionary5155
01-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Greetings Bobk
Everything is worth a try... That is what experimenting is all aboput. I have already thought about the REVERSED wad base as a ball cup. I am faced with logistics here. All that is available is what I bring down. So i learn to be versitle with what I have. All I have right now is half bag of Winchester Yellow (#114) .
I have a 12 guage here so I will work with 12. As a matter of fact 12 is all I have period even up north there. I do not think I would say 20 guage and 12 are the same either. The old tusk hunters knew for fact 12 bore WAS MINIMUM for elefants. And I know for sure NO ONE here hunts BIG crocs with 20 guage. Not saying it can be done... But I will stick with 12 bore because I know what .685-.73 caliber balls will do to BIG beasties that bite back.
But whatever works in 20 bore will have application in 12. Same basic principles.
Have fun... God Bless you !

bobk
01-11-2009, 10:13 PM
About all I shoot with solid projectiles are whitetails and woodchucks. All that big stuff is gone from where I live. In your situation, the thing is reversed. A 12 will give you as much penetration as a 20, but with 60% more weight; makes sense to me! To some extent, I am planning for my senior years. They're pretty much here, as I could be collecting SS right now. I like big guns, and have never minded recoil, but this will change sometime in the near future.
Bob K

missionary5155
01-12-2009, 08:44 AM
Good morning bobk REcoil... I hear ya ! I was loading some 12 gauge loads with 32 + grains Unique ... 28 is just right fine at the moment. I am 58 and the brain seams to "slosh about" a bit more than it used to. And the teeth vibrate more when I touch some things off ??? But.. Never give up. Never surrender ! Might have to add another layer of soft something to my shooting jacket. My present Mossy has the nicest 1" thick pad ! Really takes some of the wack out... and I do not shoot heavy stuff off a bench. Cross sticks serve just fine. Mike
God Bless you !

missionary5155
01-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Good afternoon
Got back to my impact area this morning. I decided to shoot at 57 yards again as the previous 40 yard group looked good. At 57 yards the 4 shot group was 8 inches. Maybe two hairs less. This is shooting from sitting, comfortable and relaxed about 1 minute between shots. Had I been shooting at a white tail holding front 1/3 body any one of these balls would have hit a vital... I would restrict this load to 50 yards.
The plastic pipe ring with beveled inside edge under ball does give sufficient support to the wad base so the accelation forces are evenly distributed across the base of the wad. I see no evidence of the wad tipping. The ball base is imprinted with the plastic ring. The wad is imprinted also. The cup base is NOT deforming nor collapsing as the cup was without the ring.
IT takes me about 2 minutes to cut each 5/8 OD plastic pipe ring. I first bevel the inside edge using a 3/4 " 82 degree countersink tool. Any cutter that near matches ball circumfrence would probably work as well. The idea is to provide a "near fit" seat for the ball. My rings end up about 1/8 of an inch tall. Again you have to eyeball that as each ball diameter is different in diameter. I cut mine using a jewelers saw. Any fine blade saw should work. Just keep things SQUARE. Check ring height by placing ring on a flat surface and ball in bevel of ring . If the seated ball just touches the flat surface that is close enough. Drop ring bevel up into shot cup and insert ball.
I do not see any pressure increase using the ball ring. Actually I think pressure is more uniform as there is NO shot cup tipping.
I have one more series of tests to run. I am next going to use shot cup bases (the section that seats on top of the powder) on top and bottom of the ball. This "Unit" will be seated directly on top of the same base that seats on the powder charge. I have accumulated enough "Used" wads I can get this done without destroying any unfired wads from my dwindeling supply. Shotman suggested this (maybe someone else also). This has all the possibilities of duplicating a load made in Russia(Wolf?) that encloses a RB between two fiber wads made with a ball depression. The balll rides the "Unit" down the bore supported the whole barrel length. Should work !
God Bless you !

longbow
01-12-2009, 07:37 PM
Keep us posted Missionary! Interesting stuff.

I am hoping to get out again soon but still way too much snow here yet. The weather has warmed up but it will get cold again. It isn't the cold, it is the 4" of snow to get through to set up targets that deters me.

Longbow

waksupi
01-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Interesting project. I haven't read all of it, but am trying to keep up on your experiments.
I wonder how it would work, to lube the ball, and fill the space under it with hot glue? The lube should permit easy separation at the muzzle, while giving a fully supported base. It may be possible to put a flattened layer over the top, too.

Magnum gloolits!

jsizemore
01-12-2009, 11:52 PM
Missionary, How was the group shaped? Round, vertical, horizontal? One of the considerations for accuracy is to have consistent velocity. To have consistent velocities in a shotshell it has to have a good and consistent crimp. With a RB, I haven't figured anything out except to stack a couple of cards on top of the RB or a short piece of beveled pipe on top of the RB like you put underneath it. Maybe an old wad powder cup. I keep thinking that anything in front of the RB will push it off it's path. Anybody have any thoughts?

longbow
01-13-2009, 01:16 AM
I have been roll crimping with pretty good results for 0.735" round ball.

I haven't chronographed the loads yet but groups tend to be round and about 4" at 50 yards.

I have also used roll crimp over undersize balls in shotcups but have to wonder about the shotcup petals as the roll crimp is opened up. Groups are similar size and so far round so there must be some consistency.

Maybe a heavy card wad over the ball would help with the crimp and protect the floppy petals some.

One thing I have noticed is that with the 0.735" round ball I get pretty stout recoil with 38 grs. of Blue Dot. That should be well under max. and I find less recoil with heavier slugs that are bore size or slightly under. I am thinking that the swaging of the oversize ball to bore size is providing enough extra resistance to give a more complete burn though I am getting no pressure signs. BPI recommends a solid roll crimp for Blue Dot to make sure it gets enough initial resistance to burn completely.

I will hopefully be getting out in the not too distant future and will try to chronograph the loads. That should tell us a story.

Longbow

longbow
01-13-2009, 01:25 AM
Waksupi:

I have made AQ clones by using paper tubes filled with hot melt glue. Some have worked pretty well. The last ones I made, I used a jig to make sure they were consistent and bore size under a 0.735" round ball but I got severe recoil and sticky extraction so I am thinking that the "skirt" swole up under the pressure to swage the ball down and caused too much bore friction. 0.735" round balls on hard card wads do fine over the same charge.

I think the idea of AQ clones or a ball carrier as you are describing is a good idea but maybe better sized to fit into a shotcup to reduce bore friction or maybe just make them a little undersize. I had bore some tubing to make a 0.730" paper cylinder ~ maybe 0.725" would have been better.

The skirt stays with the AQ clone but is tedious to attach so I am looking more at a simple ball carrier now which is what missionary is testing.

I am planning more tests when the snow slows a little.

Longbow

missionary5155
01-13-2009, 05:53 AM
Missionary, How was the group shaped? Round, vertical, horizontal? One of the considerations for accuracy is to have consistent velocity. To have consistent velocities in a shotshell it has to have a good and consistent crimp. With a RB, I haven't figured anything out except to stack a couple of cards on top of the RB or a short piece of beveled pipe on top of the RB like you put underneath it. Maybe an old wad powder cup. I keep thinking that anything in front of the RB will push it off it's path. Anybody have any thoughts?

Good morning
Group was nearly square... 4 balls at just about the four corners with the lower left ball being a bit closer to center. Elevation centered with pattern about 4 inches to the left of center.
I am using a "folded in" crimp up to here. The Ball is a short colunm so the case mouth convienently folds over into the case. I totally agree with the NEED to have a consistent wad pressure and crimp.
One of my goals has always been to produce a usable load anyone can duplicate without having any special tools. First I do not have any. IF I cannot readily do a process with my simple hand tools then It wont get done here. I do all my 12 bore reloading with my old set of Lee Loader. Hand held and hand opporated.
There are no reloading supplies here. Everything I have was brought in years ago. So ya learn to scavange, improvise and NEVER throw anything away.
God Bless you.

jsizemore
01-13-2009, 10:19 PM
I was looking through Ballistic Products website when I started playing with buckshot loads. My patterns were terrible. I had cut the petals off the wads and recovered wads were badly deformed and most likely responsible for the bad patterns. I had thought of buying different thickness fiber wads and over powder gas seals, but I couldn't figure out what thickness. I had a sharp pair of scissors and various types of cardboard laying around. I ended up putting 2 cardboard discs cut from primier sleeve cardboard like Win 209 primiers. I used a penny for a tracing guide. I ended up using 1 overshot card to help with the crimp. Patterns have gotten better but recovered shot was in bad shape and the barrel was heavily leaded in the throat. Now I've heat treated all my shot and I've also got some lubed with Johnson's Paste Wax (carnuba wax) applied cold and to warmed shot. Maybe something in this will give you some ideas.

jsizemore
01-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Missionary, those round groups sound like you have some consistent velocities. That's good.

missionary5155
01-14-2009, 05:30 AM
God Morning
Tank you (oops I am not in a turret anymore) Thank you Longbow, Shotman, Yondering, Bobk, Jsizemore, Waksupi and all.
Keep the ideas flowing. My final goal is to put all what we have thought through and tried into a simple to read "document". Someone else one day will need to turn his bird gun into an accurate short range tool of decisive power.
21 years ago I had no idea how far I would go with this. I was only interested in SMASHING large crocs(15 feet+) at 10 feet and usually less (straight down from standing in a dugout canoe). I had ruled out choked guns completely. But I am again reminded any man can accomplish the task if he is motivated and dedicated enough to Never give up.. Never surrender.
So again anything may work... we just need to keep striving at it and we will come up with simple solutions.
Why does not someone cut slow twist rifling in a choked shotgun barrel ? Or make slow twist screw in chokes ? Surely we are not the only ones shooting RB out of scatterguns ???
God Bless you all. Mike

C A Plater
01-14-2009, 09:25 AM
Why does not someone cut slow twist rifling in a choked shotgun barrel ? Or make slow twist screw in chokes ? Surely we are not the only ones shooting RB out of scatterguns ???
Hastings and Carlson make rifled choke tubes but alas with a 34-35" twist.

jsizemore
01-14-2009, 11:00 PM
Well i found a .662 mold so I can load some in a wad with an intact shotcup. When I get some lead downrange, I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.

missionary5155
01-16-2009, 06:07 PM
Good afternoon
Returned to my mountain side range this morning
This time I fired 4 rounds of .710 RB . 28 grains Unique. This time I used cut apart yellow Win wads. On the powder I placed the regular powder cup part. The little spacers were removed and a double cut file used to remove any protrusions from the flat face. A flat fiber wad was next inserted to add the height needed. Next another plastic powder cup was placed on top of the wad but with the curved part facing out to receive the .710 ball. Ball inserted. Another powder cup was added curve down on top of the ball. The idea is that the bore riding wads will better guide the ball down the barrel as the ball is .025 less than bore diameter but = to the choke. These 4 rounds grouped into 2 1/4 " at 40 yards. Think of a cross laying on its side...
BUT I do NOT recommend this amount of Unique ! It was THE HARDEST recoiling load I have fired out of my Mossy. The lack of the compression feature of the wad really boosted pressure. If I fire this load again I will back down to 25 grains and start over. HARD exraction ! Firm recoil. This sucker would HURT me sitting on a bench. I fire all my heavy loads sitting on my rear end elbows supported on my knees. I think it would be better to maintain the collapsing feature of the wad as much as possible. The little "collasing fingers" would have to be shortened some but that probably is a good feature to maintain and eliminate the fiber wad between the first two plastic cups.
This "all cup wad system" I feel is THE BEST to use subcaliber balls in a smothbore barrel. I manually pushed the "Unit " down bore 5 times before loading to be sure it would function. The wad cups are short enough they do not touch the full diametr part of the ball. If I had a full choke barrel and the appropriate ball size for that choke I would try this system to verify accuracy. But as far as MY modified choke Mossy 28 inch barrel ... this would be a fine hunting load at least to 40 yards and I would fire 50 yards to verify it that far.
I would also use the 5/8 beveled ring below the ball as second choice. It requires more time to assemble. But it requies less "cut up wads". But it looks to be as accurate.
If I had access to a trap range I would collect plastic shot cups and use the "over powder cup" as my RB wads. I think using a leaf rake a person could collect a sack full in no time.
So there is the end for now.. I have 4 RBīs left. I am going to load them (2nd choice wad system) and wait for an unsuspecting Rhino to wander by.
I will get the camara out and take pictures of wads, rings, recoved wads, balls, and wahtever else.
"Charlie Mike"
God Bless you all. :coffeecom

longbow
01-16-2009, 08:49 PM
CA Plater:

As far as I have found the current choke tubes are rifled for sabot slugs and usually around 1:38" or a little faster. I tried to find someone to cut a slow twist ube but no takes. Currently I am planning to make a rifling bench and make my own when I get time. One of the fellows here has done pretty well with a fast twist tube but it torqued in very tight. I would prefer a suitable round ball twist.

jsizemore:

I have shot 0.662" balls quite successfully but found they were well undersize for any shotcups I have so I cloth patched them much like for a muzzleloader and that worked pretty well. I have been told that steel shotcups are thick enough to hold the ball centered. One big advantage to balls in that size range is the large number of shot loads that can be adapted for ball and also the fact that most slugs run around 1 oz. so lots of those loads too.

missionary:

Sounds like you are making somme good progress. I am going to follow in your footsteps using doughnuts to center a 0.690" ball and see how it goes.

As for the recoil/cushion leg issue. I have some reloading info that says not to substitute solid leg wads where cushion wads are called for because the initial give of the cushion avoids the pressure spike. I think this mainly applies to faster powders though and I have had no trouble with Blue Dot. Unique isn't fast but it is faster than Blue Dot so that change may have boosted pressure just enough. I have Unique loading data for 0.690" RB and the AQ which is 1 oz. so both are slightly lighter than your 0.710" ball but still a good guideline. If you want I can post it for you.

Longbow