Goex Has Been Sold [Archive]

August

01-02-2009, 04:06 PM

Seems like a lot of our necessities have been concentrated in Hodgdon's stewardship. I guess that's a good thing, although corporations generally give me the creeps. We have to rely on their ethic and hope it serves the common good, which, in our case, is the promotion of shooting sports. I like their products and services.

They cheesed me off, however, when one of their techs got involved in a rule controversy with SASS. The only reason we could see for their involvement was a future product that would make cowboy shooters dependent of Hodgdon for supply. This has not -- yet -- come to pass. But, as I said, I am very suspicious of corporations.

I don't know exactly how they're going to improve the availability of Goex. They can't seem to supply the powders in their current catalog in sufficient amounts for our needs. And, Hodgdon's buying Goex doesn't change the ATF one wit.

But, I'll be positive in the spirit of the New Year.

Boz330

01-02-2009, 04:32 PM

Maybe they will make Express a little more competitive with Swiss and available. I'd rather spend my money with Goex, but I'm not going to spend more money and have to redevelope all my loads as well.
I was talking to the guy where I get my powder when I picked up my last couple cases and he said he couldn't get rid of the Express because of the price and the fact that Goex wasn't going out of there way to advertize it. You would think that with the dollar being weak, an in country company should be able to make a BP equivalent to Swiss cheaper than an import. He did say that most of the front stuffers were still using standard Goex.

Bob

Irascible

01-02-2009, 05:01 PM

Just read an article in the BPC News which stated that Goex Express was as accurate as Swiss 1 1/2 just needed different compression. Any coments on that? I do know that I couldn't make "Cartridge" come even close. I ended up using it in my Cowboy Action shotgun!

Boz330

01-02-2009, 05:30 PM

Kenny Wasserburger spoke very highly of it some time back. I looked into it till I found out it was higher than Swiss. The Swiss seems to be very consistant lot to lot and not near as much fines in it as regular Goex. I still use Goex in my front stuffers, till it runs out anyway.

Bob

JeffinNZ

01-02-2009, 05:39 PM

Now that is good news, I think. Now if I can just get them to ship to Alaska.
BIC/BS

HHHMMM. Hodgdon getting too much of a monopoly for me my liking. They now have their own brands, IMR, Winchester, GOEX. Time will tell.
'
I am sticking with Swiss as I can sort of get it here and not GOEX.

Don McDowell

01-02-2009, 05:47 PM

Boz if your local guy is charging more for express than Swiss, then he's ripping you guys off. Express was around 3-4 dollars cheaper than Swiss, now Grafs has Express and Swiss at the exact same price. Goex had a price increase last October.

Boz330

01-02-2009, 07:00 PM

Don, you are right about Grafs, but that is $5 a pound more than I've been paying for Swiss and $4 a pound more than the last I picked up several weeks ago. I can drive right to this guy so no shipping or hazmat, so I don't feel to ripped off.
My point was that if you are trying to get a market share you have to give folks a reason to buy and try it. Once you have the hook set and driven the competition out of town then you can raise your price, it's the American way.
I'm not sure what his regular price on Goex is now but it was $9 in case lots. I tried Swiss when it was still pretty cheap and it was so much easier to work with that I got hooked. When the price went up I stayed with the Swiss because the lot to lot difference didn't seem to be as pronounced and it was easier clean up.
I would really like to try the Express, just give me a reason. Although to make sure I was going to be able to play my games I stocked up pretty good this last time on Swiss. If business is as bad as it has been for the last 2 months I might get to burn more than I thought I would.

Bob

Don McDowell

01-02-2009, 08:39 PM

beemer

01-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Anyone remember when it was Gearhart-Owen Superfine Gunpowder. I still have one of the cans.

beemer

Ain't none of that artyficial stuff smells right.

Don McDowell

01-03-2009, 12:20 AM

Beemer I've still got 1 can of it that says DuPont.
Todays Goex is as good and probably better than it ever was.

MakeMineA10mm

01-03-2009, 12:35 AM

While the concentration of several smokeless powder brands under their banner has me a little tense about what will get dropped, I think that this is actually a good move. Black powder needs a big company with great distribution to help it get around better. I can't find black around here on any shelves. Maybe in the coming months that will change...

kevan

01-03-2009, 12:53 AM

At least you fellas Stateside have a choice of brands of Black Powder, on our side of the fence (Canada ) I've only been able to find Goex and not any of the Goex Express or Swiss....did manage to find some Cartridge though ....

Don McDowell

01-03-2009, 01:09 AM

Kevan, Cartridge is a good powder in the 45-70 and some folks have reported some really good groups with it in some of the bottlenecked cases.

I'm somewhat at a loss to see how they could improve the distrubition of Goex, unless they have an inside track to get the explosive ATFE changes made, because most dealers don't want the headache of the explosives license , and the extra ATF headaches.

boommer

01-03-2009, 01:34 AM

MAKE MINE black is classified explosive and smokeless is flammable so different insurance and must be kept in a magazine usually seperate from the building I dont know all the rules but sure somebody here does. There is a place called crater fireworks out in Mineral IL. that carries Goex and Swiss from what heard. I bought Swiss this last time off a fellow larry Konstant west of Rockford IL. he is a dealer in black cart components and farmer he knows who to get a hold of down there(815-247-8308) call him. I dont know if your close to Mineral but there's a shot.

charlie3tuna

01-03-2009, 01:42 AM

....somewhat at a loss to see how they could improve the distrubition of Goex, unless they have an inside track to get the explosive ATFE changes made, because most dealers don't want the headache of the explosives license , and the extra ATF headaches.

The only BP seller that I know of locally, told me that the *&^%$ insurance was the biggest problem. If his insurance cancels, he's done. Cannot find coverage.

Fortunately, I'm within easy driving distance of Friendship. When I was there several years ago, I got 50 pounds. The limit. charlie

cajun shooter

01-03-2009, 02:05 AM

Goex cartridge is bought by me here in Louisiana for $14.50 a can. That's alot cheaper than Swiss at $19.95-$21.95. Check out this forum and see the test done on Cartridge. It holds it's ground pretty well. I just hope that they keep the plant here and also the employees. In these times It would be terrible for any more people to lose jobs. The area that the plant is in does not need any bad news.The biggest problem with BP is the regulations. I have a good friend who owns a reloading supply house in Baton Rouge, La. He would have to buy another license and a storage locker to carry BP. He does'nt want the hassle. We have a Bass Pro only 3 miles away and a Cabella's about 25 away. Neither of these giant chains carry real BP because of all the same reasons that the little man has. Talk to your elected officals and see if we can make a change. It will be one large mountain to climb.

shotman

01-03-2009, 02:17 AM

There is talk that smokless is going the way black is If that happens its going to be $50 a pound better get what you can now.I cant buy black because I dont have the FFL 29 class license . Now you are only allowed storage of so much black. Do you see what will happen if that is applied to smokeless?

boommer

01-03-2009, 04:32 AM

The sky is falling! the sky is falling! gloom and doom! SPIKE THE DEMAND UP! and screw us all like the media. soon as Oboober gets elected you all go crazy do really think the reloading world is first or tenth target ,guns will be first,not components but Economy, mid-east country's will keep him busy. I dont know but sky is falling, gloom and doom has done on the country just as much damage as anything. I guess just look at the glass half full. BUT we do need to keep our guard up and move forward.

Boz330

01-03-2009, 12:03 PM

The only BP seller that I know of locally, told me that the *&^%$ insurance was the biggest problem. If his insurance cancels, he's done. Cannot find coverage.

Fortunately, I'm within easy driving distance of Friendship. When I was there several years ago, I got 50 pounds. The limit. charlie

Charlie, Waldron isn't that far from Friendship and his prices at Deer Creek Products is even better than the magazine at NMLRA. You do have to buy in case lots though.
I'm not sure how much Powder this guy buys at a time but I've been getting the same lot # of Swiss for 2 years.

Boomer, reloading supplies getting scarce or not, the price never goes down, especially with the gov printing money like there is no tomorrow.
As far as Obama being busy with the Middle East, that is his job, not Congress'. They have all the time in the world to work on these minor projects, along with the majority and the rubber stamp at the top. Obama won't even need to lobby for these changes just let Pelosi, Biden, and Reid work on them. With the number of RINOs in both houses, there isn't any way to stop it.
I don't look at it as panicing, but stocking up for the lean times, no different than canning and freezing vegtables and meat for the winter. Around here we have regular power outages in the winter, if you aren't prepared you have to go find a motel to stay in, if you can get there. I pesonally don't see any difference, prepared is prepared and the glass can still be half full.

Bob

Boz330

01-03-2009, 12:16 PM

Bob up until I checked with Grafs today I've yet to see Express within 4$ of Swiss.
Reasons to use Express can be lenghthy, but it sure made my wifes 40-65 sit up and pay attention.
Then if you take into account the world record 200 yd group Kenny fired at Raton last year.
Then there's always the good ol made in the USA banter.

40-65? I'm listening, talk to me. I might have to pick up a can or 2 and try it.
I think you can make almost any BP shoot well if you mess with it long enough. There are a lot of guys that swear by regular Goex. To me sometimes trigger time is a limited commodity, not to mention reloading bench time. I reloaded some 7MM Waters rounds for a new gun back in Oct and was pleasantly surprized how quick it went compared to getting ready for a BPCRS match.
If business goes the way it has the last couple months I might get more time to spend than I want this year, if I'm not out looking for a job.

Bob

montana_charlie

01-03-2009, 02:48 PM

Kenny Wasserburger spoke very highly of it some time back. I looked into it till I found out it was higher than Swiss.
I buy mine from http://www.powderinc.com/ , and the prices shown cover Hazmat and shipping (just so you can compare with what you find locally).

I buy Goex 'Cartridge' in 25 lb. lots, so I will list the 'pound price' for shipments of that size.

Goex F grades - $13.00
Goex Cartridge - $13.70
Goex Express (F grades) - $18.55
Swiss F grades - $19.95

If your local guy is getting all of his supply from a single source
...and he is charging you more for Express than Swiss...he is ripping you because you think it's 'special'.

It is special...but not more expensive than Swiss, which is special in it's own way.

If you have a loading in which the mechanical dimensions are such that the charge must be compressed in order to fit...Goex is the better choice because it actually performs better under compression.

If dimensions allow a sufficient charge to get the speed you want with no (or very little) compression...Swiss shines brighter.

Those who have experience with both say the fouling from Express is more moist...
CM

The Double D

01-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Just reinforce what MT Charlie is saying the prices he is quoting include shipping and Hazmat fees.

zampilot

01-03-2009, 03:58 PM

A month or so ago I received an email from a local BP seller: the ATF was looking to or in the process of downgradeing BP to the level of smokeless.

Don McDowell

01-03-2009, 04:51 PM

Boz330

01-03-2009, 06:06 PM

Boz yup the wifes 40-65 will shoot moa or very close to it at 600yds with 3f express, couldn't get it to do that with any of the other stuff we crammed into the cases.
I also got to messing with 3f express in my CSA 75 45-70, with its 28 inch barrel , 73 grs will hurl a 530 gr bullet at 1275, with good accuracy.
I've shot quite a bit of the 2f express but I've not got the extreme accuracy from it my rifle gets from Cartridge. So while I do keep 5 or 6 cans of it on hand, Cartridge is my 45-70 mainstay.

Loads Don! You have to understand I'm lazy.:mrgreen: Charge, boolit,etc.
MC, moist fowling is better although I'm thinking of trying bore pigs to see what kind of difference that makes.
Douglas, if I am too busy to drive to this place my shootin buddy drives past the place a couple times a month with his job so I don't have to pay all of the fees. But even if you figure $2 a pound for shipping and hazmat, it is cheaper than Grafs. I have just shy of 50lbs of Swiss on hand so I really need a reason to try Express and then I take the chance that I will like it.:roll:

Zampilot, I hope you are right but with the incoming administration don't hold your breath.
Guys, I'm not against using Goex Express, but I need a reason to dump $750+ worth of powder to start all over on several different rifles and working up loads for them with a limited amount of time to do it.
Don't take this the wrong way but MC has retired twice, DD has retired once and I'm out here making sure you guys get your checks on time, the least you could do is work loads up for me.[smilie=b:

:drinks:

Bob

montana_charlie

01-03-2009, 07:03 PM

Don't take this the wrong way but MC has retired twice, DD has retired once and I'm out here making sure you guys get your checks on time, the least you could do is work loads up for me.
Don't take THIS wrong, but I have been wanting to try Swiss for a long time. Trouble is...you guys working to keep me in retired pay aren't giving me enough to afford it.

So, supply me with a case of that nasty Swiss you want to dump, and I'll work up loads for your rifle...for an entire summer, Pilgrim.
CM

kevan

01-03-2009, 08:49 PM

WOW....thirteen or fourteen dollars for a can of Goex ??...Its never been that cheap in Canada...I wish !!
Last time I bought Goex a couple years ago it was well over $ 40.00 per can, who knows what it is now ?? :(

Don McDowell

01-03-2009, 10:22 PM

Boz,60 grs .030 fiber wad, scrapline brass, wwlr primers, snover or rcbs 400 csa cast 16-1,lubed with sagebrush alox, seated to kiss the lands.

northmn

01-04-2009, 09:22 AM

Another thread had the announcement that GOEX is working on the ATF to get BP reclassified to the same categroy as smokeless. Possibly Hodgen has the backup to do so that GOEX did not.

Northmn

John Boy

01-04-2009, 09:34 AM

With the announced purchase of Goex, NOW I know why there was 2 price increases in 2008. Have to remember, the sale of sporting powder is small potatoes. It's the blasting and government sales that are the majority of Goex's business

cajun shooter

01-04-2009, 11:31 AM

I know for a fact that Goex has a hired lobbyist in Louisiana to change Louisiana Law. Our nice people here, home of Goex, saw fit to pass a law where a Louisiana resident could only purchase 5 pounds in any given day. A person from Mississippi could go to the same store and walk out with 25 lbs. Makes alot of sense, politics.

The Double D

01-04-2009, 11:25 PM

Boz330

01-05-2009, 09:38 AM

Don't take THIS wrong, but I have been wanting to try Swiss for a long time. Trouble is...you guys working to keep me in retired pay aren't giving me enough to afford it.

So, supply me with a case of that nasty Swiss you want to dump, and I'll work up loads for your rifle...for an entire summer, Pilgrim.
CM

I was afraid of that, just when you get to the point that you have the time to do what you want NO MONEY.:groner: I'm still 3 years from full retirement, but if the Stock Market doesn't make a BIG turnaround, that ain't going to happen.
MC take your stimulus check and stock up on Swiss, or express, we all got to do our part don't you know.
Don that is pretty close to what I used to shoot. The NEI that I'm using right now can be seated out pretty long so I'm using 65gr of 2F Swiss. I will have a Brooks mould on the way shortly, which is what I should have done instead of buying that *** NEI.

Bob

Don McDowell

01-05-2009, 10:42 AM

Bob I just got a hold of one of BACO's pp molds for the 40's , wow those are nice . Have heard alot of grumbling about NEI's molds. One fella was showing us bullets that looked like they had been knurled , said he had sent that mold back twice and couldn't get anything any better. He allowed as how he wasn't going to ever order again, and had quite a few of them that he liked, but said the outfit just wasn't the same anymore.
Give us a report when that Brooks bullet gets tested.

Old Ironsights

01-05-2009, 11:24 AM

Charlie, Waldron isn't that far from Friendship and his prices at Deer Creek Products is even better than the magazine at NMLRA. You do have to buy in case lots though.
I'm not sure how much Powder this guy buys at a time but I've been getting the same lot # of Swiss for 2 years....

Deer Creek still has a Magazine? I thought he Quit.

I used to buy Lidu Bulk from him.

catboat

01-05-2009, 11:51 AM

Perhaps you can clear up a rumor I heard years ago about Goex. I heard that ten+(?) years ago they moved their plant from somplace in the north (Pennsylvania) to somewhere in the south (Louisiana?). As a result, the burning characteristics of their black powder changed. It was reported (rumored?) that the difference (and considered a downgrade in burning quality, and cleanliness) was due to the lower quality water ("swamp water") they were using in the new southern plant.

I admit, it was rumor. I did put some stock in it, as I was shooting competitively in northeastern flintlock matches at the time.

Can you comment on that Mike V? I hope was rumor. I wish Goex good luck with their new business arrangement. If it is true, perhaps this is a good time to invest in some means to improve water quality in their manufacturing process, and then sell / distribute the lights out of their product.

Boz330

01-05-2009, 12:22 PM

Deer Creek still has a Magazine? I thought he Quit.

I used to buy Lidu Bulk from him.

He had pulled way back on his manufacturing of the underhammers and Mowery rifles, not advertizing them in his catalog anymore. His retail operation is still up and running even though a tornado ripped the roofs off of his buildings last spring and then they got heavy rain right afterward.
I just picked up powder back in the early part of December, wanted to beat the increase. I didn't see where he got it from since he goes and gets it from somewhere and brings it back to the store. Waldron is just a wide spot in the road so he wouldn't have to go far to be in the middle of nowhere as far as a magazine is concerned and it is just off of I-74 so convenient.
A friend stocked up at Friendship in Sep. and their price was $3 a pound higher than Deer Creek, but you didn't have to get a case, it was all the same.
OI, I know you said that at one time you used to just screen the Lidu and had good luck with it, but did you ever try it in a BP cartridge?

Don, NEI has molds that you can't hardly find anywhere else. I have a 6.5 that was made when Walt was still alive and it is one of my best molds. When this 40 came in it cast a bevel base boolit because they had gone to deep in the blocks with the cherry and the top of the blocks weren't square with anything else so the spru cutter rocked back and forth. Both of these defects were obvious. One other problem that I've had is that it is hard to get the blocks to close up tight consistantly when the mold gets hot, haven't figured that one out yet. While I get a lot of good boolits in weighing, this mold throws more culls than any mold I've ever used. I don't own any Brooks molds yet, but have used several of his and they are first rate and only $30 more than the NEI that I got.
I have a match Sunday but the Brooks mold won't be in, in time for that but will do. To give some credit to the NEI mold I have gotten some excellent groups at 300yd with it, but they don't seem to hold up at 600, but I haven't gotten it on paper out there so it is hard to tell.

Bob

Don McDowell

01-05-2009, 03:55 PM

Bob good luck at that match. The fella I spoke of with the NEI's is/was a huge fan of those molds but says that since the new management the molds he's recieved aren't worth much for the most part.

Catboat that's pretty much just a rumor. Mostly I suspect started by a small handfull of folks that for whatever reason really got the aches on Goex. They did have a run of Cartridge that some folks weren't real happy with, but for the most part the powders they turn out now are better than anything thats come from either DuPont or Gearhart Owen.

500bfrman

01-06-2009, 12:10 AM

HHHMMM. Hodgdon getting too much of a monopoly for me my liking.

then don't buy it.

cajun shooter

01-06-2009, 10:46 AM

Talked to my Goex distributor last night on the phone. He is worried that they might make changes to where only Hodgdon distributors will have the line. He is a Civil War reenactor who owns two cannons that use 2 1/2 pounds each time they are fired. He also passes his savings on to his customers and that would go away. Ordered a 25 lb bag of 2F along with several loose cans to add to my inventory.

opentop

01-06-2009, 12:15 PM

He is a Civil War reenactor who owns two cannons that use 2 1/2 pounds each time they are fired.

Thats seems like a waste in reenacting. The group I used to belong to had an 1841 smooth bore, and only used a half pound. This was enough to set every car alarm off in the neighborhood. When we did use a full pound it would bring the carrige wheels off the ground about 3-4 inches.

opentop

01-06-2009, 12:16 PM

here is something to look at,

http://goexpowder.com/index.html

Maven

01-06-2009, 04:43 PM

Maybe we should write to them as requested below:

"Input needed:

"GOEX, Inc. is beginning a campaign to reclassify black powder, from explosive category 1.1 to the same hazard and handling class as smokeless powder, class 1.3.

"This change would affect transportation and storage rules. The Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) closely regulates class 1.1 product. Class 1.3 material is regulated to assure safe handling, but does not fall under close BATFE scrutiny, record keeping, or review.

"We have established a clear scientific basis that black powder, especially sporting powders, are no more hazardous than smokeless powder, and should be regulated similarly. What we need to establish next is what extra attention from the BATFE and other transport and handling differences has cost the consumer, the dealer, and the distributor.

"To do this, we need you to tell us - has the 1.1 classification of black powder imposed hardship, or increased your cost? Especially, we need to hear from anyone that has given up a license, or had their federal license revoked due to black powder regulations or actions of the BATFE related to handling black powder. Would you expect to see any benefits from this proposed change?

"Again, we would appreciate hearing from consumers, dealers and distributors of black powder so we can forward your thoughts to Washington.

"Write to us:
GOEX, Inc.
c/o Black Powder Campaign
P.O. Box 659 Doyline, LA 71023-0659"