Quiet .38/.357 load for rifle?

[BuckRimfire]

I have a Rossi 92 .357 lever gun with 24" octagonal barrel (I'd prefer a shorter round barrel model, but that was what I could find). Want to make a low-velocity, quiet round for it for discrete varmint shooting. I have 170 grain lead Keith (Lyman 358429 mold) bullets and a few 150 grain hollow point 358156 bullets. I'll probably load these in .38 Special brass

On the faster end of powders I have Trail Boss, HP-38 and Titegroup. Mid-range, I have plenty of Universal and a little AA#5. Using Trail Boss would be my first choice, since it always seemed quieter in revolvers. I've never used these bullets for light loads before. Anyone have a load that would give around 600 FPS?

My guess is that this rifle will give lower velocities with a light load than a mid-length revo due to the excess friction and outrageous expansion ratio. Don't want to go TOO low and stick a bullet in the barrel!

These boolits were made for me by someone else, and I don't know what kind of lube was used. I will probably roll some Lee Alox onto them on top of the existing lube, just for good measure. A little extra smoke won't bother me!

[Outpost75]

I use low-velocity, low noise rounds in a 24-inch .357 rifle all the time for shooting garden varmints without scaring the neighbors.

I would give your commercial hard-cast bullets a light tumble in Lee Liquid Alox and load them in .38 Special cases so as to reduce the excess free airspace in the case. A charge of about 3 grains of the faster powders like Trail Boss, Bullseye, TiteGroup or HP38 should reliably expel the bullet from the barrel. I would avoid slower powders like Unique, Universal or AA#5 as they do not burn efficiently at low pressure and low loading density.

Easy solution is if you have any factory-loaded .38 Special wadcutters, just use them. They probably won't feed from the magazine, as they are too short, but you can use the gun as a "two-shooter" loading one round in the chamber, and inserting only one round past the loading gate so that you have a follow-up shot. Each time you pop a round and work the lever you can shove one round in the tube as a backup shot for your varmint.

[jreidthompson1]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

See the left hand side

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[Cosmic_Charlie]

Fast burning powder with a heavier boolit.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I also have a Rossi 357 Magnum rifle. An accurate soft load I shoot is 4.5gr of Green Dot with a 158gr soft cast bullet. (20-1 alloy).

[wmitty]

Lowest muzzle pressure resulting in quieter loads- isn’t this the way to go? Fast powder and heavier boolit. I was always surprised at the quiet report of the trapdoor Springfield’s 32” barrel with a small charge of unique.

[Char-Gar]

I am subscribing to this thread. Very interesting.

[derek45]

3.0gr CLAYS 125 RNFP LEE or SNS casting Co. 130gr

used this instead of 22LR to teach my girls how to shoot during the horrible Obama days

https://i.imgur.com/Vn0RzSE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/o65YpYx.jpg

[uscra112]

3.3 grains Bullseye w/158 grain SWC worked for me in a Low Wall. If feeding thru a lever-gun requires a .38 Spl case. cut the charge to 3.0 grains. Both loads assume seating depth is .460".

The 170 grain bullets will need a charge reduction. At a guess, 3.0 in the .357 case, 2.6 in the .38 Spl case. YMMV.

[BuckRimfire]

I use low-velocity, low noise rounds in a 24-inch .357 rifle all the time for shooting garden varmints without scaring the neighbors.

I would give your commercial hard-cast bullets a light tumble in Lee Liquid Alox and load them in .38 Special cases so as to reduce the excess free airspace in the case. A charge of about 3 grains of the faster powders like Trail Boss, Bullseye, TiteGroup or HP38 should reliably expel the bullet from the barrel.

Thanks, good to know that someone has been down the exact road before.

[dg31872]

Following this with interest.

[BuckRimfire]

3.0gr CLAYS 125 RNFP LEE or SNS casting Co. 130gr

used this instead of 22LR to teach my girls how to shoot during the horrible Obama days

https://i.imgur.com/Vn0RzSE.jpg


I also used light .38 loads when my spousal critter first agreed to go to the range with me a few years ago. Got some 75 gr .358 wadcutters from Matt's Bullets and loaded them with 3 grains or so of Trail Boss. Those ran around 500 FPS from a 6" Model 19-3. Recoil and noise were less than a standard velocity .22LR!

Your coated bullets remind me that somewhere I have a box of red plastic coated 158 gr SWCs. Not a Keith bullet; they're the more common short-nosed, bevel based type, made by a guy who used to be an RSO at my favorite range several years ago. I didn't use them much, for reasons I can't recall.

Are plastic coated bullets any more "draggy" in the barrel than regular lubed lead? IOW, do you get a lower velocity with small charges, or should it be similar?

[jgstrug]

In my experience your 24" barrel will show higher velocity than the pistol barrel, not lower.

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[derek45]

...
Are plastic coated bullets any more "draggy" in the barrel than regular lubed lead? IOW, do you get a lower velocity with small charges, or should it be similar?

similar, the powder coating is very slick.

I have run coated bullets to H110/w296 & 2400 magnum velocities without leading.

and the hands and gun stays much cleaner too.

[Photog]

In my Uberti 38spl, I get 20-30% increase in speed over my 38spl revolvers ( I have 3 smiths and a taurus). This is a 19" barrel vice 2" and 4" so the velocities increase is real.
My rifle likes Lee 125RF cast boolits more than 168gr lead, I get better accuracy throughout the velocity range of 500fps to 1400fps, and the SWC won't feed smoothly in the Uberti.
some data frm MY rifle, using 125RF boolits: (powder, charge, ave velocity)
american select 2.8gr 765fps
Using 158gr swc:
clay dot, 2.0gr, 677fps

You can use pretty much whatever FAST pistol powder and any boolit 110-160gr, and around 2gr of powder for very mild loads.
If you use a slower pistol powder, e.g. W231, go up to 2.5gr.
I have tried MANY powders, and it really doesn't make much difference in the rifle. I used Extra-lite down to 1.8gr and its still exits the barrel, but only with cast boolits! Titegroup works, Solo1000, E^3, AmSelect, Red dot and the like can go down real low. Power pistol, 20/28, Steel, W231, all work in 38spl too.
Just a tidbit: 7.0gr of Power Pistol runs the 125gr at 1542fps, but thats 15000psi (per quickload)which is solidly +P. Thats faster than 357mag is rated from a 6" revolver, and only a fraction of the pressure.

[Outpost75]

I have a 4 pound, 20-inch barrel, single-shot rifle, built on a pre WW1 H&R .44 shotgun frame which is chambered in .38 S&W by John Taylor. I carry this as a "Woods Loafing" companion to my Aussie S&W Victory Model. A charge of 3 grains of AutoComp is full-charge load in the S&W Victory .380-200.

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John thoughtfully used a 10-inch twist 9mm Parabellum blank, which I wanted to stabilize heavy-weight bullets subsonic. It does fine at back yard garden ranges with factory 146-grain lead loads, but WW2 .380 MkIIz does not always exit the rifle barrel. You want about 600+ revolver and 700+fps rifle velocity with lubricated lead bullets and 750+ fps rifle velocity with jacketed.

Most accurate in the rifle with fast-twist 9mm barrel is the Accurate 36-240H flatnosed bullet I had designed just for this rifle, but it does well at short range from my S&W Victory .38 S&W. In the Victory Model revolver best bullet which shoots to its fixed sights at 25 yards is Accurate 36-190T with either 2.5 grains of Bullseye or 3 grains of AutoComp.

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[YippyKiYay]

I was given a marlin 1894 in 357/38 W/20" bbl in 1989. At the time I shot 158gr LRN and 3.2gr Bullseye in my Official Police. I found it to do about everything I needed in the Marlin carbine; my dad killed several turkeys with it (legal in Texas) by shooting them in the body. 10 years later I took it on a river float trip on the Red River, I popped a hog coming to drink at 40 yards behind the ear (I wasn't aiming there) and we had pork for supper. Coyotes, armadillos, skunks, you name it, they fell to the 158Gr @ approx 1300 FPS.

Yes I've shot lots of 357 loads in it, they really scream. But the 3.2 Bullseye and 158 is my Go-To load for anything short of deer.