Powder for Cast boolits in 30-06 Springfield

[Rickf1985]

I have found some Shooters World powder, Heavy Pistol, and I am wondering if this would be suitable for loading cast boolits in 30-06? According to the Lyman 4th cast bullet book 2400 falls right in the middle of unique and 3031. While it does not list 2400 for the 150 grain it does list Enforcer which is the same as 2400 on the chart I am looking at. Below is the explanation from Shooters about the powder. Let me know asap since as we all know it won't last long.

Heavy Pistol
High density, double base, spherical propellant. Applications
similar to Accurate No. 9, 2400, H110 and
296. Most suitable for magnum pistol applications,
as well as the .300 Blackout with supersonic lightweight
projectiles. This propellant yields excellent
velocities for the pressures generated, with less
muzzle flash than other comparable powders. It is
intended for use in large capacity handgun cartridges
(.357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum and
.454 Casull).

I am going to add the Shooter World Buffalo Rifle powder in here as it also appears to be a good match due to its reduced load capabilities. See attached description from Shooters World

Buffalo Rifle
Buffalo Rifle has a burn rate
optimized for straight walled
rifle cartridges, as well as
reduced recoil/reduced energy
loads in virtually all rifle applications.
Chambers where the bullet
diameter is virtually the same
as the internal case diameter,
such as .38-55 Winchester, .45-70
Gov’t and numerous Schuetzen
calibers, will benefit from Buffalo
Rifle. This propellant has a burn rate slower than the venerable 4759, but can
be used in similar applications.
The standard test load for this propellant is .30-06 Springfield, a 168 grain bullet,
and ONLY 22 grains of propellant. This loading density is less than 50%! Yet
this propellant burns extremely well in this condition.
Whether the loader desires to shoot cast lead or standard jacketed bullets, this
propellant can greatly expand the utility of a hunting rifle. Now, a .30-06 can be
used for plinking with the kids! Or a .243 Winchester for rabbit hunting! Safe,
reduced loads can be economically loaded and enjoyed by the whole family.
Testing, validation and publication of many reduced velocity rifle loads will be
available in 2019.
The surface of this propellant holds no deterrent or burn rate modifier. Therefore,
it ignites quite consistently with extremely low loading densities in standard rifle
loads. This same ignition characteristic aids accuracy when used with cast lead
bullets and long throated chambers.
Despite Buffalo Rifle being an extruded propellant, we have found good flow
characteristics through a volumetric powder dump. The grain is narrow, and cut
short. While some reloaders insist on weighing each powder charge, we did not
find that extra time necessary when loading this propellant.
The density of Buffalo Rifle is approximately 0.87 grams/cc. It contains a level
of flash suppressant.
Under the Lovex brand, this propellant is referred to as D060.

[Rickf1985]

66 views and no opinions?!

[toallmy]

Buffalo rifle sounds interesting ��

[Kraschenbirn]

Could find no info/load data for use of 'Heavy Pistol' in bottle-neck rifle rounds such as the '06 but 'Buffalo Rifle' is the same powder as the original AA5744 and you can begin with AA5744 'starting load' data and work up from there.

Bill

[Rickf1985]

Could find no info/load data for use of 'Heavy Pistol' in bottle-neck rifle rounds such as the '06 but 'Buffalo Rifle' is the same powder as the original AA5744 and you can begin with AA5744 'starting load' data and work up from there.

Bill

Thank you sir, That is the info I was looking for and since 5744 is the recommended powder for most of the loads I am looking at I am going for it. I NEVER thought I would spend 345.00 for 8 lbs. of powder!!! EVER! But looking at the trend in pricing all I see is it going up. And living in NJ my only options are internet, nothing local, so I have to pay the shipping and hazmat. This was 299.00 from Everglades which is 37.37 a lb.. Most of the powders I see in stock, which are very few are there or above with some over 50.00. I may be kicking myself but we will see. Now, the never ending search for primers.

[Kraschenbirn]

Hmmm...Dunno where you are in NJ but, at those prices, you might find a day-trip into PA worth your time. I've an old college buddy living in Toms River who goes that way to restock a couple times a year (all his in-laws are scattered around Norristown). FWIW, five days ago, I paid $52.96 + tax for 2 lbs. of 'Buffalo Rifle' at a small-town LGS (Zancha's Guns) about 40 miles southwest of here...and left an 8-pounder of WW231 @ $212 + tax for someone else because I've already got an unopened 4-pound jug on the shelf. At that time, he didn't have any primers, 4895, or H414/WW760, but did have 4198 and Reloader 15 and said he's beginning to get regular deliveries from his wholesaler.

Bill

[Adam Helmer]

Rick,

I feel your pain regarding components; my local shop is out of stock on everything. Happily, I overspent two years ago and have enough on hand. My best Garand powder for cast boolits is IMR4895 and my 185 grain Lee boolit for reliable bolt function.

For a bolt .30-06, I am sure the pistol powders will work well. I use Unique, 700X and 2400 in many of of my cast loads. I hope this helps.

Adam

[Rickf1985]

Thanks Adam, I have been through Mansfield many times when I used to live in Westfield Pa.. Still have a friend that lives in Mansfield.

[Adam Helmer]

Thanks Adam, I have been through Mansfield many times when I used to live in Westfield Pa.. Still have a friend that lives in Mansfield.

Rick,

Both of my friends live in Mansfield. LOL. Actually my best years to date are here and there is NO other place I would rather be.

What .30-06 are you reloading for? Bolt guns will handle most reloads. Please advise. I will try to help.

Adam

[Rickf1985]

Bolt gun is 03A3 Remington and also for a Garand, CMP Special, Criterion barrel, Springfield receiver dated 55. Also want to load for a 30-30 Winchester 94 and AR-15.

[Soundguy]

trail boss for 'safe' loads.

I'll have to check what I use under a 150gr gas checked rnfp

[lead collector]

Rick,

Just noticed your post. This powder appears to be a powder that would work well in my applications too. Not sure how long it will be before a person can buy any powders of any kind. Shelves are bare here and have been for 6 months.

I load reduced cast like many here, for several rifles, mostly military 7.5 swiss, 8mm and 3006. I dont own a crony, but some of my shooing buddies do. Several guns tested, lots of powders and bullets tried, most all will stay inside of 2 - 2 1/2 at 100 yards.
We all get random flyers that screw up our groups, and we are all trying to better understand where this is coming from.
My brother seems to blame 2400, and shot to shot velocity changes of 50 FPS, for no apparent reason, on these flyers.
Neck tension, and crimp seem to play hell with this as well. Same load, differing amounts of crimp, seem to drive velocities up 100- 150 FPS with 2400.
He thinks Unique, or even Red dot, is more consistent.

None of us have been able to consistently keep 5 shots much under 1.5 at 100 yards. Sometimes 3 or even 4 will land inside of an inch, and a flyer will screw things up, and you end up with 1.5 -2 inches.

That said, we have not had much trouble getting about anything with a decent barrel to stay 2 inch - 2.5 inch at 100, but under 1.5 inch is pretty elusive.
I have an 06 load that shows promise, now, but needs more testing. I am using the RCBS -30/165 Sil, and 30 grs of H4895.
This shoots well, and is pretty consistent 1.5 at 100 yards, in my Garand. Have not tried this in the 03-A3 yet, but will.
I am sure accuracy would improve with filler, and while I respect Larry Gibson's testing with fillers, they are not for me.
I understand the benefits, but wont take the chance with my guns.

[racepres]

I'm still using ww748 for cast "Business" loads in -06..
But, I am finding that Red Dot is reliably available, even today... Luckily I use it for about every cartridge I load...
BTW... No Fillers for me...
excepting straight wall ctgs

[zarrinvz24]

I'm just getting into WC872 in the good 'ol -06. I plan on doing duplex loads w/ 3gr TAC and a caseful of 872. Others report 2000-2100 is the expected velocity. Very economical, 48lb of 872 delivered is under $400.

[Rickf1985]

I'm just getting into WC872 in the good 'ol -06. I plan on doing duplex loads w/ 3gr TAC and a caseful of 872. Others report 2000-2100 is the expected velocity. Very economical, 48lb of 872 delivered is under $400.

WHERE are you getting 48 lbs. of powder at 400.00 today??!!!!!!

[zarrinvz24]

gibrass.com Its surplus powder pulled down from military 20/25/30mm cannon ammo. Its very very SLOWWWWWW. But economical.

[Rickf1985]

I'm just getting into WC872 in the good 'ol -06. I plan on doing duplex loads w/ 3gr TAC and a caseful of 872. Others report 2000-2100 is the expected velocity. Very economical, 48lb of 872 delivered is under $400.

You call them "duplex loads" I call it mixing powder and I do not think I want to try that one. I can see a lot going south there.

[pacomdiver]

ive done a fair with duplex loads mainly with the mosin . the slow powder (wc872) is pretty hard to ignite by itself, so the minimal load of pistol or shotgun powder (ive done 5g reddot) on the bottom of case against the primer "kicks" the slower powder off. the nice thing with 872, is you cant overpressure with a full case full and it shoots as good as surplus ammo and doesnt kick as hard as surp ammo

[ulav8r]

Duplex loads are not mixed powders. The fast powder is dispensed into an empty case, then the slow powder is dispensed with enough powder to cause bullet seating to lightly compress the powder charge. That compression keeps the powders from mixing.

[Rickf1985]

Duplex loads are not mixed powders. The fast powder is dispensed into an empty case, then the slow powder is dispensed with enough powder to cause bullet seating to lightly compress the powder charge. That compression keeps the powders from mixing.

Ok, That makes more sense. I was trying to figure out how you would keep it from mixing with the normal handling of the bullets.

[Eddie1971]

I'm still using ww748 for cast "Business" loads in -06..
But, I am finding that Red Dot is reliably available, even today... Luckily I use it for about every cartridge I load...
BTW... No Fillers for me...
excepting straight wall ctgs

I use 748 in all my rounds for cast except 6.5x55. Glad you pointed that out.

[K43]

I'd repeat what Krashenbirn said, however I won't say Buffalo Rifle is a direct 1 for 1 replacement for 5744. It is close and suitable for the same applications. Email Shooters World ballisticians from their website and they'll send you data that isn't in the online book. https://shootersworldpowder.com/
Here's a link to Accurate webpage with manufacturer published 5744 data for cast in 8x57 that I got my data from.
https://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/8mmx57JS-Mauser-vs-AP.pdf
I've been using the Buffalo Rifle in my 30-06, 8mm, and 45/70 with cast lead.

Mike Venturino had an article in Handloader Magazine titled Cast Bullets and Battle Rifles
Handloading for the U.S. 30s.
He used A5744 for 30-40 Krag, 308W, and 30-06 with cast bullets in surplus rifles.
https://www.handloadermagazine.com/cast-bullets-and-battle-rifles