Rifle bullets and throats

[Roger Kehr]

I'm a new member to the forum and I have been casting handgun bullets for decades. I have zero XP with casting for rifles.

Is there a preference for bullet nose shape and diameter in relation to the throat?
I will be loading for an '86 in 45-70. I've read that I should be shooting a gas check bullet, but there is something that really irks me about doubling the bullet cost by adding a gas check. Seems the alternatives are plain base or paper patch. Thinking 350-375 gr bullet.

Any tips or advice would be much appreciated.

[Thumbcocker]

The Lyman 330 grain "Gould" hollow point was designed as a hunting boolit for the .45-90 IIRC. Others can chime in with advice on wads etc. under the boolit.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

Read the sticky on bullet fit.

[wmitty]

WELCOME TO THE MADNESS! Do you know your land, groove and throat diameters of your barrel? I cast for an '95 Marlin and was really frustrated until learning the importance of the fit of the cast boolit in relation to these dimensions, as Outpost 75 describes. If you are interested in a hunting boolit, the flat noses seem to be more highly regarded than the round due to expansion, but you can hollow point an RN if you choose. I can't recommend an accurate boolit design, as I was trying to use the Lee 340 grain, and it was simply too small (as cast) for the micro groove rifling of the Marlin. I did purchase and cast a number of the Ranch Dog 350 grain boolits, but have not had the chance to shoot them. I mentioned land diameter in case you might be interested in trying paper patching as the recomendation is to size the boolit to land diameter and patch to groove diameter or slightly larger. Let us know how the '86 shoots!

[sigep1764]

My 2 cents worth.
If you are staying below 1500fps, you should look into a plain base boolit design. If you want to be above that, look into a gas check design. There are plenty of teeth rattling loads for the 45-70 at the 1200 to 1500pfs range. As said above, boolit fit is the most important. Slug your barrel. There is a sticky on it at the top of the forum page, but it is basically shoving a slightly bigger than bore piece of soft lead down your bore. This will allow you to measure the outside of the slug as that is the size of the inside of your barrel. You will want to size your boolit two thousandths bigger, i.e. if your slug measures .458 you will most likely need to size your boolit to .460 in order to avoid leading. Choose a good lube, a lot of use White Label Lubes here. Or there is powder coating. Buy Smoke's or Eastwood's powder coating and read the stickies on it.

[Harter66]

So just a few months ago I got all excitable and took an old Rapine 458201 which cast a .458 dia 255 gr RNFP stuffed it in a 45-70 case and drove it 2001 fps out of 1895G . First point of interest , I immediately had a refresher course in recoil head aches . Second this was a 1st gen 45 Colts bullet with a thin little base band and there's no logical reason why it shot 5 in 3" at 100 like every other best load in this rifle . No checks .
I had a 45 Raptor , basically a rimless 460 mag , that I drove a plain base greased 350 to 1900 fps . See recoil concussion .

I know neither are in 86's or 45-90 but both were well into 32kpsi and generous with the recoil in <8# rifles .

The difference between a 45-110-405 TD and a 458 WM with JSP 405 Winchesters is 10" of barrel , per Lyman 47&48 manuals . So I would imagine that a 45-90 in a new production 86' could be hot on the 458s heals .

Last bit both the RCBS 45-500 FP and 458132 @535 gr lobbed gently out of the muzzle at 1100 fps carry 1000 ftlb past 350 yd . The 250-350s will do the same but take a lot more MV and the 535 is a flight time dead heat with more energy at 400 yd .

[danmat]

What brand of 1886 are you using?
My Jap Winchester and Browning 86s have no throats, I have the best luck with Saeco and older Lyman designs.
I dont usally drive them at max velocity, I pc no gas check.
Max hunting loads I pc with gc.

[RickinTN]

If the throat in your rifle is un-altered consider a mold from Tom at Accuratemolds.com which has the "Marlin Nose". Tom offers a variety of weights in such a mold. I had him do a 365 grain for me and a friend had him do a traditional 405 grain for him. I have both Marlin and Miroku 45-70 rifles and they will work nicely in both.
Good Luck,
Rick

[waksupi]

You shouldn't need a gas check in a .45-70. Find a bullet that slips into a fired unsized case with slight resistance, that should be the right size. I used to shoot a 500 gr. bullet with excellent accuracy in mine

[Roger Kehr]

Early Winchester...new barrel.

[Roger Kehr]

Thanks for the advice... I will read the sticky.

[centershot]

Roger,
My best advice is to do a pound-cast. There is a sticky detailing the procedure. It's not difficult to do and will provide you with all the information that you'll need regarding your bore, throat and chamber.

[Roger Kehr]

Centershot,
I will check it out...thnx

[GregLaROCHE]

There’s normally no problem shooting a plain base. Powder coating is a plus.

[mehavey]

Most 45-70 run-of the mill cast bullets will be 400gr+
The 330gr Gould is a well-behaved exception.

If not a gas check, what alloy/lube and/or do you powder coat?
(Pure Lead Gould will be 350gr)
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?409893-Pure-Lead-amp-PC

Then there's Tom Ellis:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-345L
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-375B

[barkerwc4362]

I shoot a 1-30 Lyman Gould bullet, 457122, in my mid-80's Browning 1886. I paper patch it and then size to .459 in a lee die. I taper crimp using a 45-70 sizing die once the bullet is seated. The load is a charge of IMR-4895 recommended by Elmer Keith.

Bill