New member limited components

[Billy Goat]

Hello everyone.

Finding components (primers, powder etc) is kind of difficult these days and prices for loaded ammo is ridiculous.

I just need a bit of advice. My Lyman handbook 49th edition has very little data on the different projectiles available. Mostly plated HP and a few Linotype bullets but not the shape I’m interested in.

I’m loading for 357 magnum (Rossi R92 20” barrel & Ruger GP100 6” barrel). The R92 has a slow twist (1-30) so I think small fast bullets shoot best. I want to use L38-158-RFBB and L38-125-RFFB with an alloy Brinell hardness of 14.5 from the cast bullet shop. Possibly cast my own with wheel weights and Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 358-125-RF and Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 358-158-RF, if I can find them reasonably. I have new 357 mag Starline brass. With components being scarce I only have limited powder selections, and only small pistol primers no magnum or rifle. I have N110, N320, W231 and Silhouette. I’ll want to shoot hogs and whitetail at ranges under 100 yards and shoot steel gongs. I don’t use gas checks so I’ll want to keep the FPS between 1500 and 1600 out of the R92. I’ll also be loading some 38 spl cases for practice.

I’m using Lee carbide dies with the factory crimp die. I’ll be using a Lee Challenger single stage press. I want to get the Lee Auto-Drum Powder Measure so I don’t have to measure each load by hand.

Will I need to size the bullets?

Does anyone have a load using what I have, to get decent accuracy and knockdown power?

Maybe suggestions on a better projectile that’s available and priced right?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks so much for your help.

[Harter66]

We don't know about sizing .
I don't have any powder suggestions , I'm still working on a 12# of Unique from 68' .

I had a 357 Sec 6 6" and a Marlin 1894C . The 358-158 RNFP really shined there . I got about 1100 fps in the Sec 6 and 1475 in the carbine both with decent accuracy .

I haven't shot the 358-125 enough yet to make a call , and only in a old 38 Special and 9mm . I did load a few in a 358 Win once for fun and it doesn't take a whole lot of Unique to get them to the back stop in a hurry .

You'll need a good lube , Lee Alox ain't going to do it , it might but you'll be right at the edge .

From the 2 moulds above I shot them unsized for both guns . If it chambers freely it's not too big .

Plated bullets use cast data and the 357 will let you know typically well inside limits you have reached the upper limit .
Start with start loads stop when you get your desired or sufficient groups .

Hard cast only means the alloy has something other than tin in the lead . Elmer Kieth developed what became the 44 mag with 1-16 tin lead alloy so WW with a little manipulation of knowledge should be ok for 357 .

By all means read the book and the stickies , remember that the book is also a sales brochure so you can get by on about half that many tools . Don't be afraid to ask questions , the only stupid one is the one you don't ask that breaks things .

[brewer12345]

I would strongly suggest that you get some of Smoke's powder (vendor here) and powder coat the bullets for your application. In plain base, coated gives you a lot more room to push the bullets for your application. You will need a sizer, so maybe see if you can track down a lee push through in 358.

[Billy Goat]

We don't know about sizing .
I don't have any powder suggestions , I'm still working on a 12# of Unique from 68' .

I had a 357 Sec 6 6" and a Marlin 1894C . The 358-158 RNFP really shined there . I got about 1100 fps in the Sec 6 and 1475 in the carbine both with decent accuracy .

I haven't shot the 358-125 enough yet to make a call , and only in a old 38 Special and 9mm . I did load a few in a 358 Win once for fun and it doesn't take a whole lot of Unique to get them to the back stop in a hurry

That sounds great. The 358-158 is probably just the ticket then

[uscra112]

1 in 30 inch twist? Hard to believe. VERY hard to believe. .38 calibers need 16-18 inches.

Silhouette is your best bet. N110 marginally too slow, the others much too fast. Silhouette is faster than the optimum, but if that's all you've got.......

[Billy Goat]

1 in 30 is what I’ve found for all the Rossi lever actions except 30-30.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?202878-Rossi-92-twist-rate

I haven’t found any 357 magnum load data for Silhouette powder. The site only had 38 spl and 38spl +p. I’ve got a couple pounds of it and I’d love to learn a good load for the 358-158 cast in 357.

[uscra112]

Quickload model for 158 grain SWC says start at 6 grains. 8.0 grains looks like maximum. YMMV. Calculated velocities 1200 to 1500 fps

Still gasping at that 30 inch twist. The math says it shouldn't work at all.

FWIW my Marlin .35 Remington is 14 inches. Granted it's designed for 200 grain bullets, but still........

[Billy Goat]

Quickload model for 158 grain SWC says start at 6 grains. 8.0 grains looks like maximum. YMMV. Calculated velocities 1200 to 1500 fps

Still gasping at that 30 inch twist. The math says it shouldn't work at all.

FWIW my Marlin .35 Remington is 14 inches. Granted it's designed for 200 grain bullets, but still........
That’s why I’m thinking I’ll need as high an FPS as I can get without leading to stabilize a 158 out to 100 yards

[uscra112]

By the QL model, you'll need a slower powder to get beyond 1500 fps from a 20" barrel. My pet powder for top loads in rifles is Blue Dot. 2400 works. Ramshot Enforcer (AA4100) looks good in the model.

[Harter66]

The Rossi M92' in 357 I worked with shot considerably longer 158s than the Lee design well enough but it would stutter , hang , about 1 in 3 feeding , it ran 38s like water down a slide .

I had a Marlin 1894C it was 1-16 and shot everything the security 6 shot into smaller groups at twice the range . The 358 is 1-14' . Don't get me started on the M92' in Colts .

[brewer12345]

I've had no problems with 158s out of an octagon barrel 24" R92. Heck, with J word 158s I ran some test loads of lil gun that were very accurate and FAST. Try it and see what happens. I tend to like 2400 for 357 loads, very forgiving, so if you see it go ahead and grab some.

[uscra112]

Lil'Gun...! Would have thought it too slow, but yeah, the model says a slightly compressed load under a 158 grain SWC will get you to 1800 fps at a fairly reasonable pressure.

N.B. something to be aware of: Seating depth has a profound effect on pressure when loading these small cases hot. My model uses .360" to conform to the crimp groove in the bullet I am using. Yours may be different.

I seem to remember others saying that the .38 Spl. feeds better than .357 in the 92. If you go for hot loads in the shorter case, consider using cut-down .357 brass. Generally speaking, .38 Spl. cases are thinner and weaker.

[Billy Goat]

Brewer, I am keeping an eye out for 2400. That seems to be the best choice for my application using small pistol primers. The N110 data for 357 mag says use mag primers but for 38spl use standard primers. I’ve even seen data saying use standard small rifle. Hopefully when I get the 358-158 bullets I can use my chrono and find a sweet spot using N110 and SSP.

[Billy Goat]

I hate to cave, but for the hunting application maybe I just need to get some Berry’s plated flat point 158s or Hornady XTP 125’s. I really wanted to use cast 358-158’s. I’ve shot plenty of deer with soft lead 54cal round balls over 60grs black powder and it blows a hole right through them at 75 yards.

[Billy Goat]

uscra, my research says the best feeding oal for rounds through the R92 measure 1.45” to 1.59” and swc can get mangled or stuck. I haven’t fired many rounds through it yet so it’s just what I’ve read. I’ve only been able to find Sig HP 357 mag and Hornady Critical Defense in 38spl+P. It handled those fine.

[uscra112]

XTP's would make a good hunting bullet.

OAL doesn't help me calculate loads unless I know the exact length of the bullet. What counts is the amount of bullet inside the case, or more specifically how much volume remains after the bullet is seated. In cartridges like the .357 it's critical. Small differences make for large pressure variation.

Working backwards, I'd need a bullet no longer than .550" to attain an OAL of 1.45" while maintaining the same seating depth. A 125 grain XTP might be that short. See what you can find out - your g00gle-fu is probably better than mine.

[mdi]

I googled Rossi 357 twist rate and all hits said 1-30 (maybe read 6 hits). Don't have a 357 carbine , but I so cast for my handguns. I have cast a lot of Lee 358-125-RF. I have used it in my 38 Specials, 357 Magnums and 9mm. Works quite well. For my heavier 357 loads I have a Lachmiller mold for a 160 gr, with my alloy, SWC. I have used most all applicable powders but for the last few years have used mostly Universal...

[Billy Goat]

Lee .358 diameter 158 grain round flat nose bullet

Bullet Overall Length = .630 inches

Distance from the crimp groove to the nose of the bullet = .27 inches

I’m not finding very much loading data for cast bullets in 357 magnum.

[KCcactus]

I have 20" Rossi M92's in 357 and 44. Both are a 1/30" twist. My son took his first deer with the 357 using a near max load of 2400 and the old Lee 150 gr swc. I've been mostly using the Lee 125 rnfp for plinking. I started going to a local pistol caliber rifle silhouette competition with targets at 40, 50, 75 and 100 yds. Surprisingly, the 125 gr does much better at 100 yds in 38 brass with 4.8 gr Unique than it does with 6 gr. I also have a MP 130 gr swc meant for 9mm that seems to be working well at 100 in 38 brass with 4.3 gr of Unique. For hunting, you'll want to go faster, but don't be afraid to try light loads for targets and plinking.

You'll find a lot of posts on-line about how horrible the Rossi 1/30" twist is. You'll also find a lot of posts about how much others like their other brand 44's and 45's with a 1/38" twist. You'll have to figure out what your Rossi likes.

If your unsized boolits will chamber, you may not need to size them. Try them and see how they work. If you are using hot loads, back off the charge and work back up. I used unsized boolits from Lee molds for a long time without any problems before I got my first Lee sizing die.

For a boolit lube, there's a sticky in the lube section of the forum for Ben's Liquid Lube, BLL for short. I got started with it too late for the original version, so I'm using the newer one with Lundmark. It's great stuff and a little does a lot of boolits.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube&p=3887461&viewfull=1#post3887461

[uscra112]

Lee .358 diameter 158 grain round flat nose bullet

Bullet Overall Length = .630 inches

Distance from the crimp groove to the nose of the bullet = .27 inches

I’m not finding very much loading data for cast bullets in 357 magnum.

OK, that makes your seating depth .360, same as I am using, but the OAL will be 1.560, which is pushing the envelope a bit. Only way to be sure is to try it out. In a pinch you could trim your .357 cases a bit short, and adjust the load accordingly.

[mdi]

I just need a bit of advice. My Lyman handbook 49th edition has very little data on the different projectiles available. Mostly plated HP and a few Linotype bullets but not the shape I’m interested in.
I looked in my 49th and found data for 7 different jacketed bullets and 5 different cast bullets, each with at least 5 different powders. Cast lead data is more dependent on bullet weight not shape. It is OK to use "linotype" data for 10 BHN and higher bullets. PCed/Hi-Tek bullets use cast lead data and I have always used cast bullet starting data for any plated bullets I reloaded. The jacketed bullet data in my 49th is for 110. gr HP to 180 gr. JHP. Again weight is the main consideration for load data and FMJ, JHP, and JSN bullets can use the same starting load data. But the main key is to start every new to you load (bullet, powder, primer) with the book starting loads. Work up if necessary. I could reload for 12 different bullets and about 9 different powders with just the data in my 49th, including my bullets cast from my "Mystery Metal" bullet alloy...

[fredj338]

Honestly, if you are just starting out reloading, dont bother shooting lead bullets just yet. There are more factors to getting decent results when shooting lead, coated or lubed. So I would stick to book data with jacketed bullets & then look into lead.
Reloading guides are just that, guides. So you wont always be using the exact bullet or primer or case. There will always be a bit of extrapolation. The biggest issue between carious bullets fo the same weight will be OAL & bearing surface. So start low & work up. A chrono is a good tool for load development.

[Billy Goat]

Honestly, if you are just starting out reloading, dont bother shooting lead bullets just yet. There are more factors to getting decent results when shooting lead, coated or lubed. So I would stick to book data with jacketed bullets & then look into lead.
Reloading guides are just that, guides. So you wont always be using the exact bullet or primer or case. There will always be a bit of extrapolation. The biggest issue between carious bullets fo the same weight will be OAL & bearing surface. So start low & work up. A chrono is a good tool for load development.

I just got my first chrono this weekend and tested it out with the same .22lr out of my Browning pistol and a Winchester Gallery pump. 36gr plated HP out of pistol avg. 1071 fps ES: 70 and out of rifle avg. 1222 fps ES:75.
I can see just how useful this new toy is going to be.

What are the other things to look for when working up a good hunting load, besides velocity and accuracy? Obviously I don't have the expensive equipment to measure pressures so what signs should I look for?

[uscra112]

Look for consistency in velocity. Mathematically expressed as the Standard Deviation of a sample. Usually abbreviated SD. Low velocity variance usually makes for smaller groups.

As long as you're spending a little money, and if you're computer literate, look into buying a copy of the Quickload software like I use.

https://www.neconos.com/quickload-ballistic-prediction-software/

I play a lot with obsolete and wildcat cartridges for which there is not and never has been any handbook data. Couldn't do without it.

[Billy Goat]

Look for consistency in velocity. Mathematically expressed as the Standard Deviation of a sample. Usually abbreviated SD. Low velocity variance usually makes for smaller groups.

As long as you're spending a little money, and if you're computer literate, look into buying a copy of the Quickload software like I use.

https://www.neconos.com/quickload-ballistic-prediction-software/

I play a lot with obsolete and wildcat cartridges for which there is not and never has been any handbook data. Couldn't do without it.

So if you put in .358 dia lead 158gr over N110 powder would it give suggested starting loads pressures etc?

[uscra112]

Yes.

[Billy Goat]

I would strongly suggest that you get some of Smoke's powder (vendor here) and powder coat the bullets for your application. In plain base, coated gives you a lot more room to push the bullets for your application. You will need a sizer, so maybe see if you can track down a lee push through in 358.

So it's powdered paint that you tumble the bullets in and bake on? Seems simple enough. After coating, lubing and sizing them would they be able to handle velocities near gas checked cast or jacketed bullets?