Dixie Tri-Ball L oad, Part Two

[Blood Trail]

It’s been about 5-6 years since I’ve played with this load. First time out was awful. Gas blow by in my 835 melted the wads. One hit on a 6x6 target if I was lucky.

This time, I loaded 26 grs of Blue Dot in the orange Precision Reloading 3” steel shot wad, 3 hard cast .60 cal RB’s, #47 buffer, stuffed in new primed 3” Federal hulls, roll crimped with a bingo chip as an overshot card.

The gun used was my 590A1 with both Remington factory mod and full chokes. With the full choke, I was about 10-12” at 50 yards. With the mod, I got around 7” at 50. To me, that very acceptable for hunting out to 50 yards.

Velocity was just under 1000 fps. The balls recovered didn’t have a mark on them.


First shot with mod choke. 927 fps (three holes NOT circled):

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/9f79b2f3f40b45e030f7b549b9a223e7.jpg


The holes circled are from the second shot:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/9f726670d20ad77c5f10728455d46d39.jpg


This is the first shot with the full choke(blue). The other ain’t posting.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/a392e69ae9881335e08351de8e7a4537.jpg


Wads look good, far better than the first time out:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/61400f505bee06b00abf3cc0e5f149e4.jpg


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[faustus]

Blood Trail, you gave me the inspiration .....

Ok, me as well I had to give the TriBalls another try today and out of my Tac-14.

I wanted to try them at 50 yards/meters ... but I had only loaded 5 ... and it took me a couple of shots to figure out the correct sight picture for that load and gun. They shoot higher than most other slugs I tried. I will have to try 50 yards next time ....

I loaded them with 22 grains of Blue Dot .... I did not want all the omppfffff for my little Tac-14. Recoil was surprisingly manageable with that load.


Load column:

1. Cheddite 3” hull
2. Powder: 22 grains of Blue Dot
3. Cut wad open down to the base (Orange Precision Reloading Wad)
4. Split a 20ga .125 Nitro Card in half
5. Place half of a 20ga Nitro card into wad
6. Insert Wad into hull
7. 3x .600 hard round balls
8. buffer (vibrate into the balls)
9. .125 Nitro Card as overshot card
10. Roll crimp


And here is the result out of my Tac-14 with Cylinder bore at 30 yards ... around a 3 inch group. (The circle is a 9 inch pie plate)

http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall_load_Tac14_30m_lowres.jpg



I was able to recover all the wads ...

http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall-Wads.jpg



And here is the gun .... Cylinder bore .... 12ga ...

http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg


Now I need to cast more .600 round balls ..... :drinks:

-------------------

For those who can't see the pictures ... here the links to them:


1.) 30 Meter/Yard group (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall_load_Tac14_30m_lowres.jpg)

2.) The recovered wads (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall-Wads.jpg)

3.) The gun (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg)

[Blood Trail]

Blood Trail, you gave me the inspiration .....

Ok, me as well I had to give the TriBalls another try today and out of my Tac-14.

I wanted to try them at 50 yards/meters ... but I had only loaded 5 ... and it took me a couple of shots to figure out the correct sight picture for that load and gun. They shoot higher than most other slugs I tried. I will have to try 50 yards next time ....

I loaded them with 22 grains of Blue Dot .... I did not want all the omppfffff for my little Tac-14. Recoil was surprisingly manageable with that load.


Load column:

1. Cheddite 3” hull
2.Powder: 22 grains of Blue Dot
3.Cut wad open down to the base (Orange Precision Reloading Wad)
4.Split a 20ga .125 Nitro Card in half
5.Place half of a 20ga overshot card into wad
6.Insert Wad into hull
7.3x .600 hard round balls
8.buffer (vibrate into the balls)
9..125 Nitro Card as overshot card
10.Roll crimp


And here is the result out of my Tac-14 with Cylinder bore at 30 yards ... around a 3 inch group. (The circle is a 9 inch pie plate)

http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall_load_Tac14_30m_lowres.jpg



I was able to recover all the wads ...

http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall-Wads.jpg



And here is the gun .... Cylinder bore .... 12ga ...

http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg


Now I need to cast more .600 round balls ..... :drinks:

Far better than my first time out.


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[longbow]

Pretty impressive Faustus! I am liking your reduced load idea. I've been recoiled senseless (stupid?) over the years so reducing accumulated damage is becoming a concern... I don't want old bits breaking off! Been wanting to try Tri-Ball but reluctant to take the punishment of the original Tri-Ball recipe.

I think I'll have to give that one a go. I want to repeat the 2 ball load as well but this seems like a manageable Tri-Ball load and with good results.

Hah! I about to order a 0.600" RB mould about a month ago but after reorganizing stuff in my shogun reloading box I found not only that I have a 0.600" RB mould but that I cast a bunch of balls with it! Now what was it I was saying about being recoiled senseless? I had totally forgotten that I ordered it... and used it! DOH!

I'd say getting old is hard but... it beats the alternative! Every day on the right side of the grass is a good day!

Longbow

[faustus]

Pretty impressive Faustus! I am liking your reduced load idea. I've been recoiled senseless (stupid?) over the years so reducing accumulated damage is becoming a concern... I don't want old bits breaking off! Been wanting to try Tri-Ball but reluctant to take the punishment of the original Tri-Ball recipe.

I think I'll have to give that one a go. I want to repeat the 2 ball load as well but this seems like a manageable Tri-Ball load and with good results.

Hah! I about to order a 0.600" RB mould about a month ago but after reorganizing stuff in my shogun reloading box I found not only that I have a 0.600" RB mould but that I cast a bunch of balls with it! Now what was it I was saying about being recoiled senseless? I had totally forgotten that I ordered it... and used it! DOH!

I'd say getting old is hard but... it beats the alternative! Every day on the right side of the grass is a good day!

Longbow


Thanks Longbow.

Well I had prepared myself mentally for a big big big kick. I mean ... that is one of the heaviest payloads I ever shot out of a 12ga. But the big kick never happened wit that load. Might have been the short 14" barrel combined with the slow burning powder ... or the reduced powder load ... or a combination of both.

Recoil was surprisingly manageable with that load and out of my Tac-14 and without a shoulder stock.

Anyhow, I have no idea what the velocity might be of that load? Maybe 800 fps?

If I want to make this my hunting load .... then I still need to do a penetration test. If that load can go through a 1 inch spruce board at 50 yards ... then I would be confident that it can go through the boiler room of most North American game at that distance.

But right now I have no idea ...

So, the next test will be to see how this load patterns at 50 meters ... (the 30 meter pattern looks promising) .... and then I need to see how this load performs with respect to penetration.

[longbow]

I guess that's why I was leaning towards the 2 ball load at lighter payload and higher velocity but if the Faustus Tri-ball reduced load patterns well with enough velocity to penetrate and without beating the operator up too much it seems like a good way to go. I have a few 3" hulls and have to order so I'll add a bag of 3" nulls to the next order and see how this goes.

For intended use for bear protection I guess the original James Gates Dixie Tri-Ball recipe wouldn't be that punishing because A) adrenaline would be pumping; B) it would happen fast and without thought; C) having a bruised shoulder and maybe a brain shaken loose (looser?) wouldn't be as bad as being mauled or eaten by a bear. However, if your reduced load gives acceptable penetration then what's not to like? A guy just can't argue about good terminal results without severe damage to the operator.

I'll be looking forward to your next report!

Longbow

[magyars4]

Interesting results. Anyone try buck and ball?

[missionary5155]

At bear stopping distance of 10 yards and less 900 fps is very acceptable ! Not like your trying to topple an elk out at 100 yards.. Plus if I am seriously in bear hungry country there are going to be 5 of those triple ball loads being unloaded into charging bruin whether needed or not. I have no desire to mount that beast's head on a wall and be reminded daily how close my hide came to be eaten as a snack.

[Markopolo]

At bear stopping distance of 10 yards and less 900 fps is very acceptable ! Not like your trying to topple an elk out at 100 yards.. Plus if I am seriously in bear hungry country there are going to be 5 of those triple ball loads being unloaded into charging bruin whether needed or not. I have no desire to mount that beast's head on a wall and be reminded daily how close my hide came to be eaten as a snack.

LMBO at the Brother!!!!

[faustus]

Interesting results. Anyone try buck and ball?

Have a look at this thread:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

[W.R.Buchanan]

Is it me, or were there pics that didn't post?
Randy

[Geraldo]

Is it me, or were there pics that didn't post?
Randy

I don't see any from Faustus.

[faustus]

It seems some browser do not show the pictures ..... :-(

Here the links to the pictures ..... I also added those to my original post.

1.) 30 Meter/Yard group (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall_load_Tac14_30m_lowres.jpg)

2.) The recovered wads (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall-Wads.jpg)

3.) The gun (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg)

[Blood Trail]

It seems some browser do not show the pictures ..... :-(

Here the links to the pictures ..... I also added those to my original post.

1.) 30 Meter/Yard group (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall_load_Tac14_30m_lowres.jpg)

2.) The recovered wads (http://kalypso.net/temp/TriBall-Wads.jpg)

3.) The gun (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_Marine_Sept_2020_lowres.jpg)

In the first pic, I see only two holes. Did two cloverleaf?


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[faustus]

In the first pic, I see only two holes. Did two cloverleaf?




Yups, the upper hole was created by two round balls ....

[faustus]

Well, I gave the reduced Tri-Ball load another try today at 50 meters/yards ... and with my Tac-14 ... and here is the result ... around a 11" to 12" group. This is with a cylinder bore barrel ... no choke.

I was hoping for a bit better ...... but hey .... I guess I would need a choked barrel to get better results.

Also I shot my reduced load at a half inch plywood board ... and all three balls went right through it at 50 meters/yards.

My conclusion for today, .... my pattern at 50 meters/yards is not tight enough for hunting at that distance ... but the penetration of my reduced load at 50 meters would probably be sufficient for deer hunting ....


Link to image (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_50m_TriBall_load_lowres.jpg)

http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_50m_TriBall_load_lowres.jpg

[Blood Trail]

Well, I gave the reduced Tri-Ball load another try today at 50 meters/yards ... and with my Tac-14 ... and here is the result ... around a 11" to 12" group. This is with a cylinder bore barrel ... no choke.

I was hoping for a bit better ...... but hey .... I guess I would need a choked barrel to get better results.

Also I shot my reduced load at a half inch plywood board ... and all three balls went right through it at 50 meters/yards.

My conclusion for today, .... my pattern at 50 meters/yards is not tight enough for hunting at that distance ... but the penetration of my reduced load at 50 meters would probably be sufficient for deer hunting ....


Link to image (http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_50m_TriBall_load_lowres.jpg)

http://kalypso.net/temp/Tac14_50m_TriBall_load_lowres.jpg

I wish I can get my patterns in a triangle like that.


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[LeonCarr]

Great to see the testing of this great load continuing. Impressive results with the more open chokes and the short barrels.

IME with Tri-Ball the triangle shaped patterns indicate the right amount of choke...if you have two balls next to each other and one sticking out, too much choke. I have seen the best results with chokes right around .690 (Extra Full) diameter. Remember with this particular load you are not trying to compress it, you are trying to keep the balls in a straight line as long as possible.

Using James Gates' original load data for Dixie Slugs Tri-Ball has given me excellent results out to 70 yards. Occasionally at the 70 yard mark I have had two balls within 7-8 inches of each other and the other one about 12 inches away. My next test, as soon as my Marty's Arms .590 round ball mold gets here, will be to do side by side tests at 70 yards with the .600 round balls and the .590 round balls. My Lee Double Cavity .600 round ball mould is remarkably consistent, throwing WDWW balls between .599 and .601. I am thinking that the larger balls might be sticking in the wad longer than a .590 might, causing the flyer. I will test and post the results here.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[longbow]

I am wondering if using a paper tube to keep all three balls directly lined up in the bore might work better than using buffer and letting them settle off side of each other.

I have been planning on trying that for my two ball loads and will get to it eventually.

I might be reluctant to use the paper tube with James' Original Tri-Ball data but with Faustus reduced load for Tri-Ball I don't think I would hesitate. Not sure of the clearance in those wads but 2 or 3 wraps of paper should snug things up and eliminate the need for buffer.

On the buffer comment, I always wondered what the buffer accomplished in Tri-Ball loads. I can see it cushioning with 00 buck or other shot of relatively small size but with 3 x 0.600" balls they are on top of each other and buffer isn't going to center them or keep them from settling. Has anyone tried without buffer?

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

I am wondering if using a paper tube to keep all three balls directly lined up in the bore might work better than using buffer and letting them settle off side of each other.

I have been planning on trying that for my two ball loads and will get to it eventually.

I might be reluctant to use the paper tube with James' Original Tri-Ball data but with Faustus reduced load for Tri-Ball I don't think I would hesitate. Not sure of the clearance in those wads but 2 or 3 wraps of paper should snug things up and eliminate the need for buffer.

On the buffer comment, I always wondered what the buffer accomplished in Tri-Ball loads. I can see it cushioning with 00 buck or other shot of relatively small size but with 3 x 0.600" balls they are on top of each other and buffer isn't going to center them or keep them from settling. Has anyone tried without buffer?

Longbow

I haven’t tried the tri ball load without buffer, but I did with the two ball load. Awful.


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[faustus]

I recovered two balls from the sand backstop.

Those were fired with 29 grains of Bluedot.
And they were cast from hard shot.

You can see how they got jammed into each other and "flattened" during acceleration ....


Link to Image (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/TriBall_Recovered_Balls.jpg)


http://kalypso.net/temp/other/TriBall_Recovered_Balls.jpg

[Blood Trail]

I recovered two balls from the sand backstop.

Those were fired with 29 grains of Bluedot.
And they were cast from hard shot.

You can see how they got jammed into each other and "flattened" during acceleration ....


Link to Image (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/TriBall_Recovered_Balls.jpg)


http://kalypso.net/temp/other/TriBall_Recovered_Balls.jpg

Did you use buffer? Not sure if that would have helped.


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[faustus]

Did you use buffer? Not sure if that would have helped.


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Yes, these were loaded with buffer.

[longbow]

Faustus were those heat treated or air cooled? If heat treated that seems like a lot of flattening.

Were balls directly in contact or nitro card wad between?

Longbow

[faustus]

Faustus were those heat treated or air cooled? If heat treated that seems like a lot of flattening.

Were balls directly in contact or nitro card wad between?

Longbow

Longbow, these were cast from hard shot ... and dropped into cold water to cool down.

In the column the balls are sitting right on top of each other with buffer filling up the remaining space.

Here is the column ....

Column:

1. Cheddite 3” hull (Burgundy)
2. Powder
3. Cut wad open down to the base
4. Split a 20ga .125 Nitro Card in half
5. Place half of a 20ga overshot card into wad
6. Insert Wad into hull
7. 3x .600 round balls
8. buffer (vibrate into the balls)
9. .125 Nitro Card as overshot card
10. Roll crimp

[Blood Trail]

Longbow, these were cast from hard shot ... and dropped into cold water to cool down.

In the column the balls are sitting right on top of each other with buffer filling up the remaining space.

Here is the column ....

Column:

1.Cheddite 3” hull (Burgundy)
2.Powder
3.Cut wad open down to the base
4.Split a 20ga .125 Nitro Card in half
5.Place half of a 20ga overshot card into wad
6.Insert Wad into hull
7.3x .600 round balls
8.buffer (vibrate into the balls)
9..125 Nitro Card as overshot card
10.Roll crimp

I would say you’re lead ain’t as hard as you think.


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[longbow]

Yeah, what BT said.

Not sure what hardness you get from water dropping but you should try oven heat treating to get maximum hardness. In case you are not familiar with oven heat treating:

http://www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm#chart

I guess with Tri-Ball loads there isn't enough room to add nitro card wads between balls to cushion. Harder balls should help avoid distortion.

Longbow

[Steviesegal]

I joined just to say thanks for this post, I've been looking to make my own Tri Ball clones and this thread has great info.