Lee Classic Turret Press Issues

[highmountaincaster]

Just got my Lee in the mail and got it setup, I am having an issue with shell holders not sitting flush in the press. When I bring the ram up it touches the shell holder in the back and leaves a slight gap in the front? These are Hornady shell holders, I believe that the shell holders are junk. I tried about 5 others and 1 sat flush, 1 I couldn’t even get into the press at all but it fit into my LNL press. Press press was gritty and had scratches on the ram but has smoothed out after messing with it for awhile. I also see my brass case hits the side of my die but the case will still enter the die. I can live with the other querks of the press but the shell holder things has me pulling my hair. I have an App press with the same issue. I have a metal lathe but I don’t think there is any way I could indicate the rear face and make a truing cut across the front to square it up.

[onelight]

Do you still have a gap when you put enough pressure on the handle to take all the slack out of everything ?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It's likely the spring that holds the shell holder

[highmountaincaster]

Yep, I watched it with a light on the other side of the shell holder and you can see some light. I tried twisting the shell holder all around while checking and seems to be the same no matter how it’s positioned. I can see the die and turret itself lift up and when pressure is applied it will straighten out some but not completely. I also had to screw the die down so the press has a little cam over if you will do it will completely resize a 9mm. If I adjust it like it shows on YouTube from Lee’s channel it will stay about 1//64 off the shell holder.

[highmountaincaster]

Don’t get me wrong I really like the press as I will only be using it for pistol but my OCD will drive me nuts till I get that shell holder flat. The press will have to pass my concentricity gauge to even be considered for any rifle rounds. If it can’t hold 0.002 then I’ll load for my SR10 in 308 for plinking ammo. Bolt gun gets the LNL which will hold 0.001 or less on almost every round with my setup. Was kinda weird I had to seat my bullets .013 deeper cause they were hitting the rifling? A problem I never had on the LNL, makes me wonder about that concentricity thing.....

[onelight]

Have you tied to determine what part is crooked ?
Could it be a problem with that particular turret , or perhaps the piece the turret mounts into or the pillars not seated properly.
I checked mine after reading your post and the my shell holder does make full contact with the bottom of the die.
One more thing you might look at if you haven't is remove the shell holder and screw the die down far enough to touch the top of the ram and see what kind of contact you have.
Since this press bolts together a metal filing or any kind of trash in any of the joints would might cause that problem. Seems more likely to me than multiple shell holders machined crooked . But just guessing.

[highmountaincaster]

I’ll have to check, I didn’t think to do that.

[jetinteriorguy]

It doesn’t make any difference, the case and shell holder ‘float’ so it doesn’t affect case alignment in the die. Just adjust so once the case is completely in the sizing die there is no gap, or very little gap. Usually this winds up around half a turn past the die touching the shell holder with the ram fully extended. Even a small gap usually isn’t an issue on pistol brass, rifle brass though should be as tight as possible for shoulder set back. Another thought, make sure the bolts on the upright supports are nice and tight and that none are stripped out.

[highmountaincaster]

Well found the issue, it was the turret. I had another one and it sits flat, at least I know now that it’s not the press. The original turret I was having the issue with is loose and kinda sloppy, the other one tight and sits flat. I don’t think the offset will matter loading 9mm so I’ll just use it. Seems Lee needs to make a better fixture for machining or they need to reevaluate who is running it. There should not be variations of this kind on machined parts.

[onelight]

Can you see a burr or anything obvious that may be causing it to not seat correctly ?
I have 7 turrets and all are good , and have not seen anyone else mention this problem.
You might call Lee they may send you another.

[highmountaincaster]

No the only difference is mine has a small shoulder on it where the middle and lower cast part meet

[highmountaincaster]

My guess is that the top piece that the turrets snap into is at minimum spec and won’t let the other one fit for whatever reason. I also noticed that some of my Hornady shell holders will not go into the ram. I researched both of these problems and found a few different instances where this occurred.

[Three44s]

So the internal recess the turrets fit into is causing trouble then? Take the turret that will not fit and Mark it up with either layout fluid or a felt tip marking pen and try to reinstall it. Then do that to the corresponding registers in the head of the press.

The same with the top of your ram. The problem there could be the relief cut on the underside of the ram but getting a marking medium there might be pretty difficult. Try the shell holders that give trouble.

The bright spots where the marker has been punched off will tell a story.

In ordinary times you send it back to Lee and tell them to “lick their calf over” but these are far from normal. If you have adequate means without this turret press to keep loading I would send it back and prepare for a longer wait. If not, you have a dilemma.

Three44s

[onelight]

Well the good news is , if it is just the turret that is the problem problem it's a $12.00 part in normal times .
I don't know that I would spend to much time messing with it :) irritating but to me not a big deal , glad you narrowed it down to that one part.

[mdi]

I used a Lee turret press for 17 years, with 11 different turrets and my mish-mash of shell holders. Regarding turret "slop"; yes the turrets are not machined +/- .0005" tolerance and yes they move up and down with pressure. But, they move the same distance every time, easily compensated with die adjustment. Proper adjusted and consistent components I often held +/-.0015" in OAL. If the turrets were tighter in the frame there would be many complaints of "turret binding".

[highmountaincaster]

Yea it’s either the turrets, which I suspect or the turret ring on the press. The shell holder is prob a minimum spec aswell. There are a few complaints on the net about it the shell holder causing problems and one instance Lee admitted some on these got out with undersized shell holders. I’m not sending it back, if I have to I’ll just use the one turret for now. I would buy a few more turrets to try but I’m not spending what people want for them nowadays. However it would be nice to have a few samples to try and see. I did receive another on from a friend and it will snap in but will NOT even turn. He said he has never had a problem with that turret and it worked fine in his press.

[highmountaincaster]

Found something interesting on the turret ring while messing with the press today. While I was checking the fit of the turrets I noticed that the front right side pulled up higher than the left rear side. The left rear side has less movement up and down so I pulled the turret and I found what looks to be an unmachined part of the ring. I checked the other 2 turrets and had the same thing, loose on the right front side and was NO movement up and down on the rear left side of the turret. 282243
282244

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wow. that turret ringmount isn't machined correctly. Send Lee those photos.
If this is a new manufactured press, they likely have a bunch of them out there.

[onelight]

Are you referring to the groove that runs around the inside under the rectangular lugs ?
If so mine does not have that groove on the in the space before and after the detent ball .

[onelight]

Here is a pic of how mine looks .
282269

[jetinteriorguy]

Found something interesting on the turret ring while messing with the press today. While I was checking the fit of the turrets I noticed that the front right side pulled up higher than the left rear side. The left rear side has less movement up and down so I pulled the turret and I found what looks to be an unmachined part of the ring. I checked the other 2 turrets and had the same thing, loose on the right front side and was NO movement up and down on the rear left side of the turret. 282243
282244
I checked mine and that’s supposed to be a groove all the way around the ring. Looks like that’s the problem. I would think Lee could just send you a replacement ring and easy enough to replace yourself. At least this would save you postage sending the whole press back. Or if you have to you could just send the ring back in a small flat rate box pretty cheap.

[Three44s]

I figured it was the press as opposed to the turrets.

I would bet they failed similarity on your ram as well.

Too bad Lee is falling down lately, I have one of these LCTs and it’s a dandy!

Three44s

[1hole]

Don’t get me wrong I really like the press as I will only be using it for pistol but my OCD will drive me nuts till I get that shell holder flat.

First, let's think about all you've said.

You've tried about six shell holders; one fits fine, one won't go in and four have gaps, right? So which that are you chasing? And, how can the error (if any) of five shell holders be attributed to any of them not sitting flat? I suspect you're looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope! The problem, if there is one, probably lies in the ram's slots for containing the shell holders and/or the top surface of the ram itself.


The press will have to pass my concentricity gauge to even be considered for any rifle rounds. If it can’t hold 0.002 then I’ll load for my SR10 in 308 for plinking ammo.

You seek concentricity better than .002" for handgun ammo? Wow. Assuming you mean Total Indicated Runout (T.I.R), that's only .001" of actual tilt and that's well into bench rest and long range rifle ammo!

Thing is, presses just press dies in and out. When that's done the press has done its job; it's the dies, components and loader that do the work. I've been doing this handloading stuff a very long time with a LOT of different equipment but I've never seen a press affect concentricity. ???


Bolt gun gets the LNL which will hold 0.001 or less on almost every round with my setup. Was kinda weird I had to seat my bullets .013 deeper cause they were hitting the rifling? A problem I never had on the LNL, makes me wonder about that concentricity thing.....

Your bullets hit the rifling at different seating depths depending to the press you use? That makes me wonder about that concentricity thing too.

Good luck! :)

[highmountaincaster]

Easily actually, doesn’t take much mis-machining on the shell holder to leave a gap. However, I also agree also it is the shell holder in the ram because they all slide right in my LNL press. In response to you never seeing a press affect concentricity you must have been lucky because I have seen a press affect concentricity. One that is made too tight or one that is misaligned. I can get rifle rounds under 0.001 TIR fairly easily but there are a few 0.002 ones TIR in there. Of course this is after MY process of doing things. I believe a “looser” press makes better ammo than a tight one does and in my opinion if the LCT press with its floating turret and a couple tweaks should be able to make match grade ammunition. No dis-respect but I have been seating bullets for 20years now and have also seen a thing or two in my day.

[highmountaincaster]

Here is a pic of how mine looks .
282269

Yes the ring isn’t machined all the way around. Also looks like yours lug that retains the detent ball isn’t as thick as mine, could just be the way the pic looks though.

[highmountaincaster]

I figured it was the press as opposed to the turrets.

I would bet they failed similarity on your ram as well.

Too bad Lee is falling down lately, I have one of these LCTs and it’s a dandy!

Three44s

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.

[1hole]

Easily actually, doesn’t take much mis-machining on the shell holder to leave a gap. However, I also agree also it is the shell holder in the ram because they all slide right in my LNL press.

Right, therefore reworking a specific shell holder isn't the answer to your concern. But, a tiny shell holder-to-die gap is only going to affect the case face a tiny bit, not the run-out. So, the real issue becomes, "How much does that tiny gap matter?" I don't think it's a problem at all for handgun ammo and it's probably not much of a problem for rifle ammo.


In response to you never seeing a press affect concentricity you must have been lucky because I have seen a press affect concentricity. One that is made too tight or one that is misaligned.

Yes.

If the ram alignment is good the tightness won't matter but tight and misaligned sure matters. Even then the real problem is a slightly banana shaped case, not concentricity, as such.


I can get rifle rounds under 0.001 TIR fairly easily but there are a few 0.002 ones TIR in there. Of course this is after MY process of doing things.

You switch between "concentricity" and T.I.R. easily but they are not the same and we can't know which you mean; do you mean case neck runout or loaded bullet runout? And where on either one we take our readings matter ... a LOT! I mean, we can change case/bullet TIR by half, or less, if we measure a neck close to the case shoulder vs. the mouth OR at the bullet's body vs. the meplat.

Accuracy? Handguns at their best aren't B.R. tools. I don't believe any common handgun bullets (especially cast) and no common handguns ever made are going to see an accuracy improvement if the bullet's are precisely seated concentric to the cartridge center line or off by less than a few thou. ???


I believe a “looser” press makes better ammo than a tight one does and in my opinion if the LCT press with its floating turret and a couple tweaks should be able to make match grade ammunition.

Totally agree about the accuracy value of a "loose" press.

I sometimes read someone basically saying his press is "Worn out and needs to be tossed" because the raised ram wobbles a bit. I want to scream, "NO! Your press has finally gotten loose enough to allow your dies and cases to precisely self align for best accuracy."


No dis-respect but I have been seating bullets for 20 years now and have also seen a thing or two in my day.

No sweat, I'm 80 and mature enough to not take offense when no offense is intended. Twenty years ago, back when you started reloading I had already been doing it for some 35 years! I've not seen or know everything but I have never seen a press cause run-out nor do I know anyone who has.

Of course it isn't the thinning white hair or years of reloading that really matter here, it's how much has actually been learned. I know of a few really good reloaders who have 20 years of learning behind them and others who have about 1 year of experience they've been repeating for 20 years without learning another thing about what they're doing. (Seems a lot of them post on the web!)

[highmountaincaster]

Right, therefore reworking a specific shell holder isn't the answer to your concern. But, a tiny shell holder-to-die gap is only going to affect the case face a tiny bit, not the run-out. So, the real issue becomes, "How much does that tiny gap matter?" I don't think it's a problem at all for handgun ammo and it's probably not much of a problem for rifle ammo.



Yes.

If the ram alignment is good the tightness won't matter but tight and misaligned sure matters. Even then the real problem is a slightly banana shaped case, not concentricity, as such.



You switch between "concentricity" and T.I.R. easily but they are not the same and we can't know which you mean; do you mean case neck runout or loaded bullet runout? And where on either one we take our readings matter ... a LOT! I mean, we can change case/bullet TIR by half, or less, if we measure a neck close to the case shoulder vs. the mouth OR at the bullet's body vs. the meplat.

Accuracy? Handguns at their best aren't B.R. tools. I don't believe any common handgun bullets (especially cast) and no common handguns ever made are going to see an accuracy improvement if the bullet's are precisely seated concentric to the cartridge center line or off by less than a few thou. ???



Totally agree about the accuracy value of a "loose" press.

I sometimes read someone basically saying his press is "Worn out and needs to be tossed" because the raised ram wobbles a bit. I want to scream, "NO! Your press has finally gotten loose enough to allow your dies and cases to precisely self align for best accuracy."



No sweat, I'm 80 and mature enough to not take offense when no offense is intended. Twenty years ago, back when you started reloading I had already been doing it for some 35 years! I've not seen or know everything but I have never seen a press cause run-out nor do I know anyone who has.

Of course it isn't the thinning white hair or years of reloading that really matter here, it's how much has actually been learned. I know of a few really good reloaders who have 20 years of learning behind them and others who have about 1 year of experience they've been repeating for 20 years without learning another thing about what they're doing. (Seems a lot of them post on the web!)

1hole, I agree. I was self taught by trail and error over the years and my equipment tends to grow with me and I can see what “new” and shiny equipment that is offered now to new reloaders as the “must have” item. I think knowledge is the most valuable piece of equipment a reloader can have and will often dictate what actually makes you a more precise reloader. Oh I did make a mistake using concentricity and TIR in the same manner because I often get necks 0.001 or less any variation more then that is typically in the neck thickeness as after I expand using a mandrel and turn there is basically 0 deviation to 0.001. The completed round I like to see a TIR of 0.001 but 0.002 is acceptable. Even though to some degree I do not think of either so much a matter of accuracy as much as I do quality. Kind of surprising how much a so called “crooked” bullet will shoot. Whether it really matter because having perfectly straight ammo doesn’t matter to much if you have tolerance stacking between your lugs, bolt head, chamber, and bore or wether a shooter is even good enough to take advantage of such a perfect setup.

[highmountaincaster]

I just want to use the darn thing, I have 9mm, 38spl, and a 308 I’d like to try on it. Nothing more frustrating than buying something that’s doomed from the get go.

[Three44s]

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.

I am out of my “pay grade” on that question as I do not use my auto index, sorry.

Best regards

Three44s

[onelight]

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.
I don't think the indexing rod has any bearing on the problem it's sole function is rotation and the bottom end is not even retained it just sits on the cast iron base.

I don't no where you are but if you are near Oklahoma City I have several other turrets you could try.
If the steel top of the press is not machined properly Lee should replace it , and anything else that is out a wack :)

[Three44s]

I don't think the indexing rod has any bearing on the problem it's sole function is rotation and the bottom end is not even retained it just sits on the cast iron base.

I don't no where you are but if you are near Oklahoma City I have several other turrets you could try.
If the steel top of the press is not machined properly Lee should replace it , and anything else that is out a wack :)

My wild guess is the torque from dragging a turret?

Three44s

[highmountaincaster]

I just watched a few videos and most seem like the rotate pretty smooth, mine is ok but not like the others if seen. I tried putting my magnetic base and DTI on the ram and there is only 0.005 of ram movement between the ram and cast iron housing at the top of the stroke which is fine with me. Also put it on the ram while moving it up and down and only get about 0.002 to 0.003 deviation so that’s good, just must be the indexing rod giving when rotating the turret. Looks like I just got a sloppy turret and a bad ring. Which would explain why the original one works OK but the other two do not. I guess I could have mounted my DTI on top the turret to see exactly what kind of lift I get in the front as compared to the back, however I deemed this unnecessary because you can clearly see it lifts about twice as much in the front than the back. Also that the back part has minimal vertical movement as compared to the front and stems across all 3 turrets I’d would say the ring is the issue. I use to be a machinist and have 12 yrs experience accompanied by a metal lathe and a milling machine. So, I could probably fix it myself with some ingenuity but I’ll see what Lee says tomorrow before I try anything.

[highmountaincaster]

Well I called lee today and I have to say I was impressed with their customer service. A nice gentleman took my call and they believe I got a bad turret ring, there sending me a new one free of charge. He agreed that I shouldn’t have 3 turrets and only one works. He also stated they never made any design changes to their turrets so they all should work. So, why one of mine has a shoulder on it is anyone’s guess. I am just glad they took care of me, that’s how customer service should be. He did state however if the new turret ring doesn’t work that I’ll have to send my press in so they can figure out what is going on. Of course i don’t see why it wouldn’t but keep my fingers crossed. I’ll post an update after I receive the new turret.

[Three44s]

Glad Lee seems to be fast on this!

You still have that ram issue though?

Three44s

[onelight]

That is great to hear !
The LCT is my favorite press to load on due to the unique combination of features it has .
Lee has made a gazillion of them and if yours has a problem they should fix it.
I have never broken the plastic pice at the bottom that indexes the rod but one of my buddy's is heavy handed and has broken a couple . They are cheap I have a couple of spares just in case , they are easy to replace if you do break one might consider getting a couple if you plan on using the auto index feature.

[highmountaincaster]

Glad Lee seems to be fast on this!

You still have that ram issue though?

Three44s
I checked all my shell holders I have and only 1 doesn’t fit. Prob just a bad one, it was from Hornady.

[highmountaincaster]

That is great to hear !
The LCT is my favorite press to load on due to the unique combination of features it has .
Lee has made a gazillion of them and if yours has a problem they should fix it.
I have never broken the plastic pice at the bottom that indexes the rod but one of my buddy's is heavy handed and has broken a couple . They are cheap I have a couple of spares just in case , they are easy to replace if you do break one might consider getting a couple if you plan on using the auto index feature.
I bought 6 spares just in case that would happen.

[onelight]

I have a Hornady shell holder that won't fit in one of my Lyman presses or my Lee.

[highmountaincaster]

I have a Hornady shell holder that won't fit in one of my Lyman presses or my Lee.

No big deal I’ll just chuck it up and turn a few thou off.

[john.k]

I think RCBS shellholders jam in my Lee .....had to take a small amount off the sides of the lower part and it fits......Lee holders are all a very free fit ,and obviously smaller in certain dimensions.

[highmountaincaster]

I think RCBS shellholders jam in my Lee .....had to take a small amount off the sides of the lower part and it fits......Lee holders are all a very free fit ,and obviously smaller in certain dimensions.

I don’t know I haven’t tried any other brand besides 2 lee shell holders and between 8-12 Hornady ones.

[highmountaincaster]

Success!!! I received my new Lee turret ring and it works great. All the turrets turn nice and smooth. I noticed that the new ring is machined all the way around the lugs on the bottom unlike my old ring. So, I must have gotten a bad machined ring at least Lee took care of me and made it right. So, anyone that has turrets that turn stiff or hard I would take a close look to see if your turret ring is machined all the way around. That might be another reason some people seem to chew thru the plastic part that indexes the turret aswell.

[onelight]

Success!!! I received my new Lee turret ring and it works great. All the turrets turn nice and smooth. I noticed that the new ring is machined all the way around the lugs on the bottom unlike my old ring. So, I must have gotten a bad machined ring at least Lee took care of me and made it right. So, anyone that has turrets that turn stiff or hard I would take a close look to see if your turret ring is machined all the way around. That might be another reason some people seem to chew thru the plastic part that indexes the turret aswell.
That is great news .
Glad to hear they took care of you so quickly .
Enjoy your new press.

[highmountaincaster]

That is great news .
Glad to hear they took care of you so quickly .
Enjoy your new press.

I will, it’s main purpose was handgun ammo but I think it will be loading my .308 Sr10.

[powwowell]

Congratulations to you, and Lee. Another satisfied customer.

[tazman]

I will, it’s main purpose was handgun ammo but I think it will be loading my .308 Sr10.

I use mine in single stage mode to load 223, 308, 30-06, and even a few 458 magnum. I get 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards with my 30-06 bench rifle.

Mostly, it loads handgun ammo.

[highmountaincaster]

I use mine in single stage mode to load 223, 308, 30-06, and even a few 458 magnum. I get 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards with my 30-06 bench rifle.

Mostly, it loads handgun ammo.

Nice!!! I plan to do some experiments to see what kind of quality ammo I can make with it compared to my LNL. If it passes, it may become my go to press.