shipping a rifle

[Battis]

I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times, but I can't get the search function to work on this forum.
Anyways, I want to sell a rifle or two on GB. I understand it can be shipped with UPS to a licensed FFL. I called UPS and they said (in two phone calls) that it has to be shipped FROM a licensed person (apparently C&R qualifies), but it can only be shipped for repairs.
Any more info?

[obssd1958]

You're talking to the wrong people.
UPS allows non-license holders to ship long arms, via ground, to a licensed FFL holder. The package cannot say anywhere on the outside, that it contains a firearm, and you must take it to an actual UPS shipping hub.
When I ship a rifle, I put a copy of the receiving FFL's license in the box, and take a copy with me when I drop it off with UPS. Sometimes they ask for it, sometimes they don't. I always give them a detailed description of the rifle, for the insurance (ex.: 1934 Winchester model 52 .22 Hornet with fancy wood).
I'm probably forgetting details, but there are others who will probably weigh in.

Don

[Tatume]

You're talking to the wrong people. UPS allows non-license holders to ship long arms, via ground, to a licensed FFL holder.

You are correct on both counts. UPS also allows non-license holders to ship handguns to a licensed FFL. It amazes me how quickly an employee will answer with a guess rather than look up the answer.

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions.
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921, will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services."

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/firearms.page

[Battis]

When I called (twice) it sounded like the call was going to India. Both people I spoke with seemed to be reading from a card (probably the first half of the regulations listed above), and both said that the firearm has to go from a licensed person to a licensed dealer for repairs or modifications only. I repeated my question and got the same response. I called a local UPS store and was told I had to call the center.
Maybe something got lost in the translation. I'll call them again.
Or, I'll just show up with the info.
Thanks.

[Tatume]

Also note (from the same URL citation above):

"Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account using various UPS pickup services, or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes or UPS On-Call Pickup®, and may not be tendered to or dropped off at locations of The UPS Store®, any third party retailer, or any UPS Access Point™ location.

When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk."

[white eagle]

if they ask whats in there tell them parts
there is no need to tell them the contents of a package
their job is to ship it
now you do have to ship ground but that is all
I send mine through fedex and usually even when asked and I tell them
it's a gun there is no call the FBI look just take and ship
labeling is also important if the addressee is a gun store like Rusk Gun Shop
leave out the words gun shop,just so you don't draw attention to the contents from someone reading it
the clerk probably knows from the address that it is a gun shop
it's not a crime to ship a firearm even if they make you feel like it is

[Battis]

I just want to trim the herd a little bit. My options are selling on GB, or selling to a local shop, (or putting it on consignment at the shop). GB seems the best way to go. I've sold antiques and shipped them through UPS before, but the rifles I'm selling aren't antiques.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Depends on the State.
A few States have State laws that's prohibit a non-FFL from shipping a long gun.
Also, Some States have State Laws that Prohibit a FFL from receiving a long gun that was shipped by a non-FFL.

[243winxb]

Rifle & shotguns can be shipped by you thru the USPS to a FFL. Send it by registered mail. No need to tell USPS what is in package.

[kerplode]

You're talking to the wrong people.
UPS allows non-license holders to ship long arms, via ground, to a licensed FFL holder. The package cannot say anywhere on the outside, that it contains a firearm, and you must take it to an actual UPS shipping hub.
When I ship a rifle, I put a copy of the receiving FFL's license in the box, and take a copy with me when I drop it off with UPS. Sometimes they ask for it, sometimes they don't. I always give them a detailed description of the rifle, for the insurance (ex.: 1934 Winchester model 52 .22 Hornet with fancy wood).
I'm probably forgetting details, but there are others who will probably weigh in.

Don

This is all good info.

Personally, as a non-licensed individual, I've never been able to get an FFL to give me a copy of their license. I've asked many and they've all flatly refused. What you can get them to give you, though, is the first-3 and last-5 digits of their license number. Put those in to the ATF's FFLeZCheck (https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/fflezcheck/) page and print that report to show to the UPS counter person (They've always asked me for proof the recipient is a license holder).

[Burnt Fingers]

Rifle & shotguns can be shipped by you thru the USPS to a FFL. Send it by registered mail. No need to tell USPS what is in package.

If you want to stay on the right side of the law you do need to let USPS know what's in the box.

432.3 says it all.

[243winxb]

Do as you wish. Firearm means handgun, short barreled rifle or shotgun. (concealable)

[Burnt Fingers]

Do as you wish. Firearm means handgun, short barreled rifle or shotgun. (concealable)

You're still wrong.

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Note the title heading of 432.3 RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS

[DocSavage]

I've shipped rifles and handguns thru UPS and FedEx let them know what's in the package,the address label should use the initials of the shop/ manufactures rather than the full name that way it will attract less attention.
Don't lie and say " machine parts" etc if it gets lost,damaged UPS/FedEx will deny your claim on insurance. Your FFL can send any firearm thru UPS,FedEx or USPS and probably cheaper than you can as they probably have a business account and get a break on shipping.

[kenton]

I sold my first rifle through gunbroker recently, I tried to ship directly to their FFL and was told they would not accept transfers from non licensed individuals. I thought "no big deal" and went to the local range I usually use as my FFL. Long story short, the $30 dollars I charged for shipping did not cover the the $35 transfer fee let alone the $45 dollars they charged to ship a long gun.

It was a good learning experience but I didn't make near as much as I expected to off that high point carbine. I hope other can learn from my experience for free.

[Stewbaby]

...if you sell on GB, know that you typically can print the label thru their site at a discount (or used to could).

[frkelly74]

I will just chime in here. I have sold two rifles this year and sent them through the USPS. One at the main PO here was "ok that will be $35 thankyou very much." They did ask if it was a gun and I said yes and it's going to a dealer and that was that. The second one the lady hesitated and said she needed a copy of the license which I had and so I gave it to her and she wrote a date on it and stamped it with a USPS stamp and measured the box and finally said that will be $55. It has to go adult signature required which added cost and it was a little farther away. I din't argue. Both got to where they were supposed to go which was all I really wanted.

[obssd1958]

I sold my first rifle through gunbroker recently, I tried to ship directly to their FFL and was told they would not accept transfers from non licensed individuals. I thought "no big deal" and went to the local range I usually use as my FFL. Long story short, the $30 dollars I charged for shipping did not cover the the $35 transfer fee let alone the $45 dollars they charged to ship a long gun.

It was a good learning experience but I didn't make near as much as I expected to off that high point carbine. I hope other can learn from my experience for free.

In my opinion, and it has worked this way for me every time, if the extra costs are generated by the buyer's choice of transfer FFL, then the buyer is responsible for those costs.
In this case, at the very least, the transfer fee charged to you due to your FFL having to send it, should be born by your buyer - not you.

[Idaho45guy]

I also just sold two rifles on Gunbroker and shipped both through the USPS. It's 100 yards from my house and much more conveinient than making the 30-mile round trip to the UPS "Hub" for shipping firearms.

First rifle went to Texas and was $42 before insurance. $56 total with insurance for $800. I shipped it in the factory cardboard box after adding another layer of cardboard to cover up all of the gun logos.

Second rifle went to PA and was $59 total. I bought a new black plastic hard case to ship it in...

282250

I went to my tiny Post Office the first time to get an estimate on the cost to ship. The Postmaster had no idea what the rules were and printed out a bunch of info and handed it to me and said to read it and come back.

I came back the next day with the rifle properly packaged with a copy of the FFL in the box, another copy in hand, and everything ready to go. The guy I talked to the second time had a C&R licence and knew everything there was about shipping firearms.

When I brought the last rifle in, there was a woman working who didn't know anything, so I had to tell her the rules and show her my receipt from the first rifle so she knew what to do.

[myg30]

So if I’m going Deer hunting in upstate NY, I can’t ship my rifle to my Daughters house and return ship it to my home in TN.? It has to go to an FFL?

All the guys that shoot competitions all over the country ship their comp guns, how does that work for pistols and rifles.

Mike

[Tatume]

So if I’m going Deer hunting in upstate NY, I can’t ship my rifle to my Daughters house and return ship it to my home in TN.? It has to go to an FFL?

I don't understand why people argue about things like this when the law and regulations are clear and easily obtainable.

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:
Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
Be addressed to the owner.
Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

[myg30]

Thanks Tatume, I think my old eyes was focused on the FFL part and didn’t read far enough.
Appreciate you posting this.

Mike

[Burnt Fingers]

Read twice. Speak once.