S&W Pre Model 30?

[Mk42gunner]

A few questions about the "Pre Model 30" if you don't mind.

I've been researching this small revolver for the past few days, and haven't really found the answers I'm looking for.

The gun in question is a S&W flat latch that to all indications is a J frame, ie. a coil mainspring and it is just a skosh bigger than the on hand Model of 1903 hand ejector I frames. ~2" barrel, actual measure 1.970", I was under the impression that S&W 2" barrels were supposed to be 1 7/8"???

Cylinder length appears to match the I frames, didn't measure. Trigger guard is a bit larger as well.

My searching for s/n didn't work well, from what I can find the s/n 624XXX should have been made in 1955 and be a transitional model I frame with coil spring, but this one sure looks like a J frame to me. From what I found, the J frame should have started about 1957? All up empty weight is 1.18 pounds, and it is dwarfed by a Taurus Model 85.

I need to find or make a grip adapter, and I think I will stick to I frame safe loads. I don't intend to use this for a carry gun in town, but mainly for small game or varmints on the farm.

All in all it is a nice 98% revolver that was lonely on the gun show table.

Robert

[Outpost75]

Tyler can make a T-grip for it, but you'll need to be patient. Don't exceed 2.2 grains of Bullseye or 2.5 grains of HP38 or 231 with #3118 seated out and crimped in top lube groove. About 800 fps.

[MT Gianni]

I don't think the J frame started until 61 or 62, ask at S&W Forum to confirm. Mine is an I frame 32 dating to 53 with a coil mainspring. It is highly accurate with the RCBS 98 swc and 2.3 gr BE. Model numbers started in 56/57 but the transitional era and low volume of the 32 Long put off going to the J frame for a few years, IIRC.

[MT Gianni]

For some real fun get a wadcutter mold.

[Green Frog]

There were two “upgrades” to the I frame 32s before they all went to J frame dimensions. The first change essentially to replace the leaf mainspring with coil. Then the frame was expanded slightly, but the key difference was the size of the cylinder window was still shorter than that of the J frame. With the Model 30 dash one, the “small frames” all became J frames.

This has been discussed at great lengths on the S&W Forum with Hondo44 being the guru there on the subject. If it is actually an example made prior to model numbering, it will necessarily be an “Improved” or a “New” Model I frame since they went to Model 30-1 when they began building J frame 32s.

BTW, yours almost certainly isn’t, but to tell at a glance if a post War 32 is a Transitional (“unimproved”) I frame, just look for the visible “sixth” screw... the strain screw for the leaf spring, found near the bottom of the front of the grip frame.

Froggie

[rintinglen]

If the cylinder is ~1.25", with a coil main spring, it is the improved I-frame. If the Cylinder is ~ 1.4" long, it is a J frame. However, it is my understanding that all the J-frame guns are model marked, ie: 30-1 etc.
281770
This my pre-war Hand Ejector, 3rd Model from 1924. I have another, post WWII, gun from the early 50's, blued, but also 3 1/4 inch. I understand they made them in 2", 3", 3 1/4", 4" 4 1/4", and 6 inch, with the 6 inch being quite rare, post war. They have gotten a bit pricey in recent years. For a long time, they were a bit of a drug on the market, running no more than 100-200 dollars, but these days $350-$450 seems to be the norm, with really primo pieces running another C-note or two higher than that.

[Mk42gunner]

Shot it today with the RCBS 32-098-SWC, .314 BLL, in front of 2.5 Red Dot and a CCI spp. Very mild seeming load, no I didn't drag out the chronograph yet. Group was a bit low at about ten yards. More of a function check than anything.

It is a four screw gun, the grip frame is ~1/8" longer at the bottom than one of the early I frames, but other wise matches up, I compared the hard rubber original grips from my earliest I frame.

I'll have to do some testing, but right now my plan is to have only loads that are safe for the early I frames loaded in .32 S&W Long brass. I know the later heat treated versions are supposed to be stronger, but they are still small revolvers, and if I want more I have the Ruger SSM in .32 H&R Magnum.

I'll try looking on the S&W forum, I haven't had much luck there since they did an upgrade a few years ago.

Robert

[fatelk]

I've recently become interested in the little .32 S&W Long, bought a 31-1 and a Regulation Police from the '30s. That little I-frame gun is tiny, feels downright petite.

I'm not interested in hot-rodding it at all, but am a bit confused from all my reading on the subject. My Regulation Police with serial number dating it to the '30s should be heat treated, right? It should be fine with most any standard pressure load for the cartridge, I assume?

[rintinglen]

S&W began heat treating cylinders in WWI at the insistence of the U.S. Army due to problems with some of the earliest 1917's. Colt had been heat-treating Army guns since 1909, when they made the New Service based Model of 1909 for the army. I have been told that Colt actually started heat treating the D and E frame guns when they went to the "Positive" hammer Trigger inter-lock, but I have never seen any documentation to prove this assertion. I treat pre-WW I Colts as soft, until somebody proves to me otherwise.

But re your S&W 32's: If your gun dates after 1920, ser. 321,000 or higher, it is heat-treated, whether Hand Ejector, Regulation Police or 22/32. Earlier guns did not have heat treated cylinders and you can bulge the cylinder with too-enthusiastic of a load. 38 K frames started heat treatment in 1919 at Serial number 316648, or thereabouts, while 32-20's at serial number 81287 or higher are presumed to be fitted with a heat treated cylinder.

[Mk42gunner]

If the cylinder is ~1.25", with a coil main spring, it is the improved I-frame. If the Cylinder is ~ 1.4" long, it is a J frame. However, it is my understanding that all the J-frame guns are model marked, ie: 30-1 etc.
281770
This my pre-war Hand Ejector, 3rd Model from 1924. I have another, post WWII, gun from the early 50's, blued, but also 3 1/4 inch. I understand they made them in 2", 3", 3 1/4", 4" 4 1/4", and 6 inch, with the 6 inch being quite rare, post war. They have gotten a bit pricey in recent years. For a long time, they were a bit of a drug on the market, running no more than 100-200 dollars, but these days $350-$450 seems to be the norm, with really primo pieces running another C-note or two higher than that.
That is the simplest explanation I have read regarding the difference between an improved I frame and a J frame. Many thanks. I didn't see your post last night.

I used to think round butt J frame grips were tiny, until I got a 3¼" Model of 1903 Hand Ejector with the original hard rubber grips in my size ten hand.

The whole cylinders weren't heat treated story sounds goofy to me. S&W were forging parts and had to know that heat treating after machining would make harder/ tougher/ stronger parts.

But then as I was typing this it hit me that it wasn't that many years prior that well respected companies were still making guns out of iron, not steel, iron. Winchester 1873 ring any bells?

Robert

[fatelk]

S&W began heat treating cylinders in WWI at the insistence of the U.S. Army due to problems with some of the earliest 1917's. Colt had been heat-treating Army guns since 1909, when they made the New Service based Model of 1909 for the army. I have been told that Colt actually started heat treating the D and E frame guns when they went to the "Positive" hammer Trigger inter-lock, but I have never seen any documentation to prove this assertion. I treat pre-WW I Colts as soft, until somebody proves to me otherwise.

But re your S&W 32's: If your gun dates after 1920, ser. 321,000 or higher, it is heat-treated, whether Hand Ejector, Regulation Police or 22/32. Earlier guns did not have heat treated cylinders and you can bulge the cylinder with too-enthusiastic of a load. 38 K frames started heat treatment in 1919 at Serial number 316648, or thereabouts, while 32-20's at serial number 81287 or higher are presumed to be fitted with a heat treated cylinder.

Thank you, good to know. My gun is serial number 506xxx, was told it was likely made in the '30s.