RIA 1911 : Possible caliber conversions?

[VariableRecall]

My buddy has an RIA 1911FS, a clone of the GI style 1911 from Armscor. It's a fantastic piece and a great value. But, I was wondering how convertible the platform would be for other calibers. I understand that a lot of 1911 derivatives come in a variety of calibers, and the 1911 platform on a whole can convert to a good amount of calibers, but I was wondering if the RIA 1911 has any potential barriers to using aftermarket parts like barrels and magazines in particular.

[Mk42gunner]

The only hang up I can think of is if the ejector doesn't fit the new slide. The dim recesses say they are different for some calibers.

Although I had a Colt Delta Elite that I had both a GI .45 ACP and a Springfield Armory 9mm top end for. They worked with no problems.

Robert

[charlie b]

First, I would wager that any aftermarket 1911 part would fit.

As to calibers, I remember the old "Pistolsmithing" book by Nonte had a chapter on 1911 caliber conversions. He had one that was done as a boxed set. .22LR, .32acp, 9mm, .38super, .45acp. Four different slides. The .22 version was the Ace kit.

IIRC, he did mention that if push came to shove you could shoot a 9mm/.38super with a .45acp slide but the extractor would need to be changed and the extended Commander ejector was required. Someone in here can correct me if that is incorrect.

PS keep in mind that this was a gunsmith writing. All parts were fitted to the gun. "Slip on" parts fit depends a lot on the donor pistol. If it is made to closer tolerances than most GI pistols, then it may take some fitting for proper function. Many aftermarket parts are made so that fitting is required so keep that in mind if shopping for parts.

[downzero]

The 1911 was made in an era where labor was cheap and materials expensive. It requires a lot of hand fitting to be at its optimum, and sometimes to run at all.

[matrixcs]

for an experienced gunsmith 9mm, 38super, 40sw and 10mm are possible just by swapping parts.
barrel,slide,ejector,extractor,slide lock,springs and magazines....

[HATCH]

I have the Armscor 22tcm combo.
It comes setup for 22 tcm but includes a recoil spring and extractor for 9mm
I have used the TCM extractor for 9mm and it work just fine.
Definitely don't want to use the TCM recoil spring as it is very weak

[M-Tecs]

The 1911 was made in an era where labor was cheap and materials expensive. It requires a lot of hand fitting to be at its optimum, and sometimes to run at all.

Currently there are over a 100 manufacture producing 1911. The current crop of Turkish and Philippine produced have basically zero hand fitting and the run very well. They do have proper tolerancing and most of the current after market parts tend to interchange very well. Post WWII through the mid 80 lots of substandard or worn out junk was used. Once the tolerance were change to eliminate the need for handfitting the issues went away.

As to calibers 22LR, 22 TCM, 30 Luger, 32ACP, 7.63 Mauser, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Parabellum, 38/.48 Clerke, .380ACP, 38 Special/AMU, 38 Super, 38 Casull, 9x23, .357 Sig, 9x25 Dillon, 40 S&W, .400 Corbon, 10mm Auto, .41 AE. 45 ACP, 45 Super .451 Detonics, 460 Rowland and 50 GI all have been done on the standard 1911. This is just a partial list that I can think of off the top of my head. If we include the scaled up frames 357 Mag. 44 Mag and 45 Win Mag come to mind.

[Burnt Fingers]

The 1911 was made in an era where labor was cheap and materials expensive. It requires a lot of hand fitting to be at its optimum, and sometimes to run at all.

That's not been my experience at all. I've had over three dozen 1911 pistols pass through my hands in the last 40 years.

Sure, some of those '70 and '80 era Colts wouldn't run hollow point ammo very well. But it was never intended to do so.

Now days I think you would be hard pressed to find a 1911 pistol that doesn't run.

Your statement would also apply to almost every Winchester lever gun, Marlin lever gun, Savage lever gun, most bolt action rifles, and almost all revolvers.

It's as false for them as it is for the 1911.

[downzero]

That's not been my experience at all. I've had over three dozen 1911 pistols pass through my hands in the last 40 years.

Sure, some of those '70 and '80 era Colts wouldn't run hollow point ammo very well. But it was never intended to do so.

Now days I think you would be hard pressed to find a 1911 pistol that doesn't run.

Your statement would also apply to almost every Winchester lever gun, Marlin lever gun, Savage lever gun, most bolt action rifles, and almost all revolvers.

It's as false for them as it is for the 1911.

You seem to have read something I did not say. I have 1911s with 40,000+ rounds on them. I never said 1911s were unreliable or wouldn't feed hollow point ammunition. In fact, I'm pretty sure all of mine will feed empty cases, although before the barrel was replaced in my 9mm 1911, it was a finicky pain in the ass (9mm is .090" shorter than .45, and sometimes that jump is a long way).

They do, however, require careful fitting. Even the cheapest 1911s on the market have had a human hand on them to fit the critical components (barrel fit, maybe the thumb safety). The idea that you're just going to take parts out of one 1911 or a slide off the shelf and fit it to an existing frame and have everything work fine is simply not reality. That is true for more modern designs like a Glock or your other favorite plastic fantastic. It's absolutely not true for 1911s.

[VariableRecall]

First, I would wager that any aftermarket 1911 part would fit.

As to calibers, I remember the old "Pistolsmithing" book by Nonte had a chapter on 1911 caliber conversions. He had one that was done as a boxed set. .22LR, .32acp, 9mm, .38super, .45acp. Four different slides. The .22 version was the Ace kit.

IIRC, he did mention that if push came to shove you could shoot a 9mm/.38super with a .45acp slide but the extractor would need to be changed and the extended Commander ejector was required. Someone in here can correct me if that is incorrect.

PS keep in mind that this was a gunsmith writing. All parts were fitted to the gun. "Slip on" parts fit depends a lot on the donor pistol. If it is made to closer tolerances than most GI pistols, then it may take some fitting for proper function. Many aftermarket parts are made so that fitting is required so keep that in mind if shopping for parts.


Looking at Armscor's website, they sell the same 1911FS in 9mm and .38 Super. To do that, they would just have a barrel and extractor change, am I correct? I suppose that if a caliber conversion were to occur, 9mm 1911 magazines wouldn't be too difficult to find?

[downzero]

Looking at Armscor's website, they sell the same 1911FS in 9mm and .38 Super. To do that, they would just have a barrel and extractor change, am I correct? I suppose that if a caliber conversion were to occur, 9mm 1911 magazines wouldn't be too difficult to find?

The breach face should be larger for the Super.

[charlie b]

You seem to have read something I did not say. I have 1911s with 40,000+ rounds on them. I never said 1911s were unreliable or wouldn't feed hollow point ammunition. In fact, I'm pretty sure all of mine will feed empty cases, although before the barrel was replaced in my 9mm 1911, it was a finicky pain in the ass (9mm is .090" shorter than .45, and sometimes that jump is a long way).

They do, however, require careful fitting. Even the cheapest 1911s on the market have had a human hand on them to fit the critical components (barrel fit, maybe the thumb safety). The idea that you're just going to take parts out of one 1911 or a slide off the shelf and fit it to an existing frame and have everything work fine is simply not reality. That is true for more modern designs like a Glock or your other favorite plastic fantastic. It's absolutely not true for 1911s.

I guess I got lucky. Every 1911 I have had I could swap slides and barrels with no extra fitting....unless it was a specially fitted slide/barrel like my father-in-laws match pistol or a part designed to be installed by a gunsmith, like the national match slide I got for one of them. They are designed with under/over sized specs that the gunsmith then files/fits to the subject pistol.

[downzero]

I guess I got lucky. Every 1911 I have had I could swap slides and barrels with no extra fitting....unless it was a specially fitted slide/barrel like my father-in-laws match pistol or a part designed to be installed by a gunsmith, like the national match slide I got for one of them. They are designed with under/over sized specs that the gunsmith then files/fits to the subject pistol.

Try doing that with a thumb safety sometime and you'll see what I mean. The spec is zero sear movement and the fit has to be very close to achieve that.

Of course not every 1911 has to be perfectly hand fit in every way, but they are a lot more in need of it than a Glock or similar, where every barrel fits every pistol and such.

[M-Tecs]

Looking at Armscor's website, they sell the same 1911FS in 9mm and .38 Super. To do that, they would just have a barrel and extractor change, am I correct? I suppose that if a caliber conversion were to occur, 9mm 1911 magazines wouldn't be too difficult to find?

That would be correct. Barrel for sure. Extractor might need to be tweaked or replaced. Unless you have the brass I would recommend going the .38 Super Comp route. They tend to feed better https://www.starlinebrass.com/38-super-comp-brass

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/converting-from-9mm-to-38-super.32632/

[bruce drake]

for a 1911 with a 45ACP slide, the easiest conversions are buying slides , recoil springs and barrels in 400 CorBon and 38-45ACP. both of those wildcat cartridges eliminate the need for 40S&W or 38 Super chambered 1911s....but for a 38 Super 1911, a conversion to 9mm is just as simple but do require 9x19/38 Super magazines for the narrower diameter cartridges. converting a 45ACP slide to 9x19/38super is really too much of a pain for a regular gunowner to deal with.

I've got slide/barrel 1911 setups for all 5 of the calibers I mentioned. the next set of caliber conversions I plan for my 38 Super 1911 frame would be 7.62x25 and for my 9x19 1911 I want to find a 30 Luger and a .380 ACP barrel/slide combo some day in the future.

Some folks are enjoying the .40 S&W and 10mm Auto chambered RIA 1911s. If I didn't have all of the above, I might consider picking up a 10mm Auto 1911 and then finding a 9x25 Dillon chambered barrel/slide combo as well.. ;)

Bruce

[bruce drake]

That would be correct. Barrel for sure. Extractor might need to be tweaked or replaced. Unless you have the brass I would recommend going the .38 Super Comp route. They tend to feed better https://www.starlinebrass.com/38-super-comp-brass

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/converting-from-9mm-to-38-super.32632/

+1 on the 38 Super Comp brass. 38 Super Brass with 9x19 rim diameter versus the older 38Super's semi-rim which makes reloading easier along with not requiring a separate extractor setup (I just fitted my 38 Super barrel to my 9x19 1911's slide until I got another slide for the 9x19 barrel.)

[bruce drake]

The breach face should be larger for the Super.

I own both a 9x19 and a 38 Super RIA 1911. The breech faces are the same on their slides (38 Super) which is smart for them for commonality. 9x19 cases will function fine with a 38 Super breechface. Same with their frames are set up to handle 38 Super magazines and they put a spacer in their magazines for their 9x19 pistols. And by all means explore using Starline's 9mm Super Comp or their 9mm Largo cases for reloading 38 Super. Starline is excellent brass and their Super Comp brass can handle nearly 357 magnum level loads (I don't load them that hot but they can be loaded hotter than 9x19 or 38 Special loads by a long shot ;) Their 9mm Largo brass has a slight taper to the cartridge case when it first comes out of the bag but a mild first load will give it the typical straight-wall case taper of a 38 Super. I load the Largo cases at 38 ACP level for their first firing and then I can choose between 38ACP and 38 Super levels if I feel I need to. I usually keep the 9mm Largo cartridges at the 38ACP level for decent case life when I'm at the range.
Bruce

[VariableRecall]

I own both a 9x19 and a 38 Super RIA 1911. The breech faces are the same on their slides (38 Super) which is smart for them for commonality. 9x19 cases will function fine with a 38 Super breechface. Same with their frames are set up to handle 38 Super magazines and they put a spacer in their magazines for their 9x19 pistols. And by all means explore using Starline's 9mm Super Comp or their 9mm Largo cases for reloading 38 Super. Starline is excellent brass and their Super Comp brass can handle nearly 357 magnum level loads (I don't load them that hot but they can be loaded hotter than 9x19 or 38 Special loads by a long shot ;) Their 9mm Largo brass has a slight taper to the cartridge case when it first comes out of the bag but a mild first load will give it the typical straight-wall case taper of a 38 Super. I load the Largo cases at 38 ACP level for their first firing and then I can choose between 38ACP and 38 Super levels if I feel I need to. I usually keep the 9mm Largo cartridges at the 38ACP level for decent case life when I'm at the range.
Bruce

Thanks for the advice! I'm not looking to make any sort of conversion any time soon but it's good to know that conversion is a readily available option out there should I get my own .45 ACP 1911 clone and try it in a different caliber.

[RJM52]

Not sure about the RIA as I recall it doesn't have a ramped barrel in .45 ACP... As to changing to other calibers one would need a slide machined to take 10mm...9mm and .38 Super size cartridges will run off a 10mm extractor usually with very little tweaking.

I started off with a Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm. Added a .45 slide that had the ejector channel deepened a few thousandths to clear the taller 10mm extractor...that was all that was needed...

Here is the whole story...

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/four-caliber-stii.777762/


Stupid me...Numrich had the 7.62x25 conversion barrel I needed for YEARS...and when I finally decided to buy one they were gone...if anyone happens to know where any are please let me know. I have TONS of ammo.

Bob

[Burnt Fingers]

You seem to have read something I did not say. I have 1911s with 40,000+ rounds on them. I never said 1911s were unreliable or wouldn't feed hollow point ammunition. In fact, I'm pretty sure all of mine will feed empty cases, although before the barrel was replaced in my 9mm 1911, it was a finicky pain in the ass (9mm is .090" shorter than .45, and sometimes that jump is a long way).

They do, however, require careful fitting. Even the cheapest 1911s on the market have had a human hand on them to fit the critical components (barrel fit, maybe the thumb safety). The idea that you're just going to take parts out of one 1911 or a slide off the shelf and fit it to an existing frame and have everything work fine is simply not reality. That is true for more modern designs like a Glock or your other favorite plastic fantastic. It's absolutely not true for 1911s.

Yet the military did just that when rebuilding them.

I doubt that a Tisa or a RIA or even a lot of Kimber's have any handfitting.

Modern production methods, like MIM, can produce parts that need no fitting.

[onelight]

If you have to buy a slide barrel and magazines and any other parts to make it work .
Another RIA might be the better choice :)

[matrixcs]

I agree . Parts to convert will cost more than another pistol..
Just because you can do something does not mean it is the best choice.


If you have to buy a slide barrel and magazines and any other parts to make it work .
Another RIA might be the better choice :)

[VariableRecall]

If you have to buy a slide barrel and magazines and any other parts to make it work .
Another RIA might be the better choice :)

That's also another good option. Considering that the complexity of doing it myself, might just sit on my hands and wait for a great deal on one later.

Also 7.62 Tokarev in a 1911 sounds like heresy, but would probably be a great deal of fun...

[Sailormilan2]

Changing calibers is relatively easy, provided one starts with a 45 acp. Going to a smaller caliber means a new slide, with appropriate breechface, barrel, and 9mm ejector. Caliber change is straight forward. The biggest hassle is enlarging the ejector slot in the 45 acp slide to fit the wider, slightly taller 9mm ejector. Once that is done, the 9mm ejector may need to be shortened a bit if going to any caliber other than 9mm:
If you get a slide with a 40/10 breechface, one can go 9mm, 38 Super, 9x23, 357 Sig, 40 S&W, and 10mm(10mm involves upgrading the main and recoil springs).
If using a slide with a 9mm/38 Super breechface, one is limited to 9mm, 38 Super, and 9x23.
I’ve done several. Word of caution. If the main spring is for 10mm, some 9mm loads have weak ejection.
I also recommend with staying with the same brand of slides as the frame. Better chance of the new slide fitting the frame.