Remington New Army 44 Bullet Sugggestions.

[robertbank]

Looking for a suggestions for a 200 (+) gr bevel based lead bullet mold/design suggestion for my 44 Remington New Army 44.

Take Care

Bob

[rodwha]

Create what you want with Accurate Molds, it’s what I did.

[rodwha]

If you’re wanting input on a design I certainly have many opinions.

[robertbank]

If you’re wanting input on a design I certainly have many opinions.

Express um. I open to any suggestions. Looking for accuracy in the design and ease of loading in Pietta clone.

Take Care

Bob

[rodwha]

I’m not sure a Pietta can accept any bullet without modification. I created a very short (.400”) bullet with a wide meplat and had to open up the loading window for it to rotate. I created that bullet and another that’s .460” long thinking my 2013 Pietta would have the slow 1:30” twist, which it did not (1:16”). Do you know the twist rate of yours?

I decreased the typical lube groove size as these guns just don’t need as much as some designs I’ve seen. Of course this may be determined by the powder used and how much fouling it creates. I initially used 3F Triple 7 but mostly use Olde Eynsford which isn’t nearly as dirty as most other black powders. And I use Gatofeo’s #1 lube.

What I’ve found is that my ROA does equally well with a ball as it has with about 7-8 different bullets. I’ve only used my two designs in my NMA but they, too, shoot equally well as a ball. I shoot offhanded at 15 yds. I intend on making a final universal bullet for my two revolvers. I have a more accurate powder measure that will allow me to test by 2.5 grn increments instead of 5, and will fill the excess space minus 3/16” with lead.

My bullets are intended for hunting so I look to give them a very wide meplat since expansion can’t be counted upon.

One thing I’ve found is that it’s most beneficial to have a long base that slips into the chambers. My initial design for the NMA has a short one, and though they load fine they do sometimes get canted a little. It’s rare but it does happen easily.

The Pietta ram’s face is rounded for a ball. I’m sure it would work well on a RN such as the Lee bullet. For any other design it kisses the nose with an odd imprint. A fellow on another forum has used epoxy to create a bullet profile ram face.

Is this bullet intended just for paper punching? And if so are you looking for the best accuracy? I began my testing at 25 grns of energetic powder which, according to the little chronographed info out there should provide at least 300 ft/lbs and put it in .44 Spl performance, which I feel is the minimum. My NMA does best with 30 grns (weighs 33 when using Olde E), but the match shooters all generally seem to find their best accuracy using 15-22 grns or so.

[rodwha]

These are the designs I’ve created for the .44/.45’s, though I didn’t have Tom at Accurate Molds create the 245 grn version (it’s what I’m basing my upcoming universal bullet on).

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-170C

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-245C

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C

The last two designs have thicker driving bands to create more pressure by providing more friction in the chambers. This was intended for my Ruger since it can handle that just fine. The 285 grn version I wanted because I thought I’d be moving to black bear country and figured I’d have to see if they taste as good as they say (not as a primary weapon but a backup since they always seem to run and into thick stuff).

[Castaway]

Lee makes two conical moulds for a cap and ball revolver; a 0.450 at 200 grains and a 0.456 at 220 grains

[robertbank]

rodwha I like this design and may pursue. I looked at that design independently to your posting,


http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...bullet=45-245C

What has been your experience?

Castasway I will take a look at those two designs as well.

Take Care

Bob

[rodwha]

rodwha I like this design and may pursue. I looked at that design independently to your posting,


http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...bullet=45-245C

What has been your experience?

Castasway I will take a look at those two designs as well.

Take Care

Bob

That design I did not have made as I went with the 285C instead. But a member I “speak” with often has purchased it and says he really likes it. Using the current numbers I have my modified version would look very much like this bullet, but would have the overall caliber reduced to 0.455” and the OAL reduced a bit and would likely weigh about 220 grns +/-10. I wouldn’t want to sacrifice any accuracy for mass.

I can’t say that the Pietta ram kissing the bullet nose effects the accuracy, though I’d think it best to fix it. It may be that the Lee RN design is better if you aren’t wanting to modify the ram face. I’ve read of another replacing the ram with an Uberti version instead.

[ogre]

I suggest using the .44 Kerr bullet from Eras Gone Bullet Molds (225 gr). The Kerr molds should be available again in May of 2021.

https://erasgonebullets.webstarts.com/store/product/-44-english-kerr-

[rodwha]

^
If you’re looking for a traditional design I see these are highly regarded. If you intend on hunting I’d say hard pass as the pointy design is why the soldiers preferred a ball. The point just allows the flesh to stretch since it’s not all that fast so the permanent hole is smaller than caliber. It’s why when I design a bullet they wear a wide meplat. And of course they give a nice hole in the target as well...

[Good Cheer]

robertbank,
Have you determined the diameter of your chambers for use in selecting a mold?
In my experience some Pietta .44 chambers are around 0.446"/0.447" diameter and some have a slight taper.
I've seen some reported as 0.450" though the only ones of that diameter that I've personally seen so far had been modified after purchase. Maybe someone can chime in here on recent production and what they found in theirs.

[Battis]

I'm not sure if I dreamed it, saw it in a cartoon or, most likely, on another forum, but someone designed a bullet for a C&B revolver and there were dangerous issues with the bullet design building too much pressure. Anyone else remember that?

[Gtrubicon]

I'm not sure if I dreamed it, saw it in a cartoon or, most likely, on another forum, but someone designed a bullet for a C&B revolver and there were dangerous issues with the bullet design building too much pressure. Anyone else remember that?

No, but I’m all ears. This would be really good information

[Battis]

I can't remember where I saw the posts. Someone made bullets for a cap and ball revolver and sent some to another shooter. Apparently they were too heavy and the revolver was damaged. Hopefully, it will come to me where I read it.

I just weighed some .454 round balls (pure lead). They weigh approx 142 grs.
What does that mean in regards to the original post? Not sure.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Bob,

I've been shooting the LEE 450-200-1R in my 1858 Conversion.
I swage a .428 heel and run them through a .451 sizing die, most show signs of sizing.
They shoot very nice, but I'm using Black MZ with no lube.
Not sure if that bullet would hold enough lube for true Black Powder.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Outpost75]

I shoot the Lee 200-grain R.E.A.L.., casting from 1 to 40 tin-lead, using 50-50 beeswax and olive oil, with 28 grains of 3Fg Goex. Chambers were uniformed to .453" to clean up old frosting from prior Pyrodex use, so they now hold a bit more powder.

[rodwha]

I'm not sure if I dreamed it, saw it in a cartoon or, most likely, on another forum, but someone designed a bullet for a C&B revolver and there were dangerous issues with the bullet design building too much pressure. Anyone else remember that?

That is most likely my bullet you are speaking of. I designed it specifically for my ROA knowing the length would eat up powder capacity leaving it with about a max of ~25 grns so I decided to give it longer driving bands to create more friction (along with the extra the mass would create). I designed it thinking I was moving to VA opening up bear hunting (this was not a primary means but knowing you almost always have to track them). This was loaded in a Walker with two 26 grn powder flask measure/spouts full (52 grns) of Pyrodex P, which ripped open that chamber. This is the bullet:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C

[rodwha]

Hello Bob,

I've been shooting the LEE 450-200-1R in my 1858 Conversion.
I swage a .428 heel and run them through a .451 sizing die, most show signs of sizing.
They shoot very nice, but I'm using Black MZ with no lube.
Not sure if that bullet would hold enough lube for true Black Powder.

AntiqueSledMan.

This is the universal bullet I created for my NMA and ROA. I saw no need for the huge lube grooves I’ve seen on some, these barrels aren’t that long. I typically shoot more than 5 and up to 10 cylinders without cleaning the barrel and accuracy is not effected, though I’ve questioned slight leading. My problem with this is that my understanding is that leading effects accuracy enough to notice even if it’s slight.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C

Note how the driving bands aren’t nearly as long as the previous bullet I designed. I also designed this to be roughly the length of a ball as I expected my NMA to have the slower 1:30” twist, which it does not. I’ll be modifying my designs to make a bullet that takes up the excess space which will likely make it about 220 grn +/- 10. My NMA does best with 30 grns and my ROA with 35, though I have a more accurate measure I need to use to see if I can refine their more accurate hunting charge.

[rodwha]

Here’s a pic of my 285 grn bullet next to Kaido’s modified Lee 255 grn bullet, and my 195 grn bullet that’s .460” long (actually it’s a hair or two short). So you can see that my bullet has a lot of mass for its length.

https://i.postimg.cc/yYQrJP7J/4-A2853-E2-AEF5-45-BC-AF76-8-C17-ED2-BACEC.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w7NkZDyH)

[Battis]

At what weight would a cast bullet be too heavy for a replica Remington .44?
What about a conversion cylinder?
And, what about a ROA?

[rodwha]

At what weight would a cast bullet be too heavy for a replica Remington .44?
What about a conversion cylinder?
And, what about a ROA?

Here is a list of paper cartridges from the Civil War. Someone tested the Hazard’s cartridges and found they contained 4F powder and was virtually identical to Swiss in energy. Looking at the load data that’s one heck of a cartridge.

https://i.postimg.cc/J02zST2k/BEF62-D17-501-A-4831-BAB6-D0-DEF20-E6-FFA.png (https://postimg.cc/dZGFy9vs)quick image upload (https://postimages.org/)

Note also that some very heavy bullets were used. What the powder was like is unknown to me, but I can see why some of the soldiers claimed it didn’t work well on men. But then the bullet style of the day was very pointy, which we know at pistol velocities merely allows the flesh to stretch creating a smaller than caliber permanent wound track.

Modern replicas are made with better steel, and the Rugers are indestructible as far as black powder goes.

We know that mass creates higher pressures as it takes more to get it moving, but I’d say what’s much more important is the amount of bearing surface which creates drag on the cylinder walls, it’s why I created my heavier bullets with them as I knew Rugers can handle all I can give them and some. There’s a fellow on another forum who has tested modern bullets in his guns including a full wadcutter, but he was using Jack’s Battle Powder which isn’t all that energetic. IIRC he used 30 grns of powder. So we see that a fairly heavy (I think it was 200 grns) bullet with a crap ton of friction can certainly be handled by a replica with standard powders.

45Dragoon who works on replicas shoots his (Dragoons) with conversion cylinders only and he loads his up quite a bit stouter than many recommend. I don’t know what kind of cylinders he uses though, which likely makes all the difference. He states conversion cylinders can certainly handle more than your typical cowboy loads, but I’m not knowledgeable on them whatsoever.

[derek45]

Mungo like round :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/S6CbQ3A.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n7lkfHe.jpg

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but interested in something with a wide meplat

[rodwha]

Mungo like round :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/S6CbQ3A.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n7lkfHe.jpg

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but interested in something with a wide meplat

Several of us have gone to Accurate Molds and created what we wanted, or chose from his wide range of options. Kaido also has modified Lee designs and Big Lube has a few options as well. I’m sure there’s some others as well. Of course you’ll need to verify that you don’t have the slower 1:30” twist designed for a ball that doesn’t seem to shoot bullets well. It’s why I created a wide meplat bullet for my Pietta NMA thinking it would. It weighs 195 grns and is just .460” long. Turns out it has a 1:16” twist so I’ll be making a new design eventually.