Can you just PC and (almost) forget about BHN?

[Paramax55]

I've decided to quit participating in the ammo shortage and start casting/loading again. I had quit before (like an idiot) because it was too easy and I didn't appreciate it (I shoot at my house). But, back then, I was getting to the point that I wanted to take it to the next level and life was getting in the way along with the elevated time requirements and so on... I was loading 45 acp and 270 Winhester. I used factory jacketed for both and PC cast WW for the 45. I also did 380, but I hate that gun. Anyway, my WW alloy is all much softer than what Lee recommends for the advertised pressures on my loads. Lee says that my 45 needs about 15 bhn and 9mm needs something close to what I get from straight pewter! But I see posts where guys are shooting PC'd lead that's anywhere north of 10. Some guys don't even test for bhn. The hardest WW batch I've ever gotten is 11 and most is sub-10. I didn't have any problems in my Glock.

Now jacketed (I haven't tested it) I KNOW is a LOT harder than any lead alloy. And to raise a batch of WW lead up to 15 took 1/2 my pewter! That's not going to be cost effective - especially if I want over 20 for 9mm. So I started looking around some more. Some guys are putting in .5% - 2% Cu and some are even using .5% Zn on purpose! Cu is cheap, but the guys using Cu haven't reported back any numbers which makes me question if it's even worth it.

Elvis Ammo amd Fortune Cookie both seem to say that they are using alloys in the 20's - which is A LOT of tin unless they are getting there with antimony. But that makes me question all the guys thst seem to be fine with WW as they come.

So... does BHN matter in a pistol with PC?

[shell70634]

Normally I cast 10-12 bhn for pistol, 15-17 for rifle. Seems to work fine for me but none are driven hard.

[popper]

Pewter is mostly TIN, a poor hardener. Use ~2% Sb for pistol and 3-4% for rifle. Heat treat if needed. PC does help.

[Paramax55]

I know TIN isn't the best hardener, but it's what I had on hand and I didn't think it was going to take that much when I started.

2% Sb is fine to shoot for - if you happen to have a mass spectrometer laying around. But what if you don't know how much Sb is in your WW mix already? Add a few Oz and see if it gets you above 10?

[shell70634]

I bought some superhard from rotometals and use that or my dwindling supply of linotype to harden. I make a 40 pound batch at a time.

[Huskerguy]

I think the question was about hardness when using PC? I have three types of lead, COWW, soft lead and a lot of range lead. I just came into some lino and plan to start using it based on spread sheet on this forum.

I try to keep my bullets from being really soft but I don't worry about getting them super hard either. There are some who believe the lead can change shape but I wonder how anyone would know that. Unless it is really soft and you aren't trying to push them extremely fast, pour, coat, size, load and shoot. I would almost guarantee you will never have a problem. YMMV

[white eagle]

So... does BHN matter in a pistol with PC?

No,especially if you gas check boolits
I have quit worrying about BHN long ago

[Paramax55]

Maybe I'll just make sure my 45 is at 10 and my 9mm is at 15 or better. I ordered some Antimony. I'll be using that instead of my TIN for the future. I have some lead that's actually at a BHN of 5. If I use it for smokeless, It's going to need a lot of help.

[Multra]

Isn't there a thread of someone PCing pure lead .45 acp?

[Hick]

I regularly use alloy for pistols that I think is about BHN 9 or 10 at best. They are round nose but soft enough that the seating die flattens the noses. I PC them and they shoot fine in both my Ruger 357 revolver and my Henry Rifle. Good accuracy and no leading.

[Paramax55]

I am PCing some soft lead for the 45, but that's for black powder.

[fatelk]

I have to wonder sometimes about the alloy recommendations from manufacturers. Lee says 1/10 tin/lead. Who uses that much tin? Seems absurd to me. I can't afford that. Other manuals list their loads for bullets made of pure linotype. I can't afford that either, seems wasteful.

I've found that I can use a softer alloy with powder coating. I use primarily range scrap, with a little linotype to sweeten it depending on what I'm casting. I water drop out of the powder-coat oven. I don't test for hardness or even have a tester. Works for me.

[Land Owner]

I had similar questions regarding BHN and got some very good answers in this thread:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?422980-New-PC-er-getting-started

Bottom line, Water Quench after PC to increase hardness. Save the expensive tin and antimony for other uses - like ~2% tin in your alloy for mold fill out and IDK what with antimony, that I already get in the alloy from the COWW's.

[GregLaROCHE]

Maybe I'll just make sure my 45 is at 10 and my 9mm is at 15 or better. I ordered some Antimony. I'll be using that instead of my TIN for the future. I have some lead that's actually at a BHN of 5. If I use it for smokeless, It's going to need a lot of help.

If you want to add antimony, you’d do best to buy it alloyed with another metal. It takes an extremely high temp to get it to alloy with lead.

[Paramax55]

Are you sure about the high temps? Copper alloys just fine with lead at normal temps. You just have to flux it so it doesn't oxidize. I was expecting antimony to be the same.

[Burnt Fingers]

Are you sure about the high temps? Copper alloys just fine with lead at normal temps. You just have to flux it so it doesn't oxidize. I was expecting antimony to be the same.

It is.

Just as when adding sugar to sweet tea. You don't have to have the sweet tea at the melting point of sugar.

Antimony will dissolve in lead if you use the proper flux.

OP.

I use a BHN of 10-11 for almost all my shooting needs. You can shoot pure lead in 45 ACP with no problems as long as bullet fit is correct. I normally use Hi-Tek as a coating. The only times I go harder than 10-11 is for some 327FM loads and for rifle loads.

[Paramax55]

I've never shot much rifle, so I'll probably just buy the rounds for that. I may play with AR rounds, but I'm not committed to it. I don't have anything against rifle - it's just not as much fun/cheap as pistol. Since nobody has had a vortex in the space-time continuum yet, I guess I'll just shoot for (pun) north of 10 on my BHN and run with it.

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/uclR2g1.png

[popper]

@paramx - just cast some, WD a few and compare BHN test. If BHN goes up on WD after a couple days, you have Sb. If it really goes up, too much Sb, add some pure. PCd pistol doesn't take much. And you have to watch fit as softer will come out smaller.

[Jim22]

Since I started powder coating I have been casting softer boolits for my .357 Marlin. 49%COWW, 49% soft Pb, 2% Sn. No leading to about 1800 fps.

[Paramax55]

WOW! 49/49/2 should make a nice, shiny boolit - but SOFT! But you can't argue with results.

[Paramax55]

Popper - that would be the proper way to do it. Maybe I'll try yhat if all else fails.

[jimlj]

I don't test hardness.
I was given some what I believe to be close to pure lead. With 45/45/10 tumble lube I had bad leading. With powder coating I have zero leading out of my 9mm's.
I bought some "range" lead from a seller on this site. According to my highly calibrated finger nail it is harder than the other lead I was using. Zero leading with powder coating. I have no chronograph so I don't know the speed, but I get 100% reliable function from different guns and satisfactory accuracy. I use mid range loads from my Lyman manual. For my purposes hardness doesn't matter.

[David2011]

For both .45 and 9mm I just use COWW. I add a little type metal just to make them cast easier. Adding 2% tin/pewter will accomplish the same thing. No leading even before I started powder coating. You don’t need hard boolits. Even commercial casters use 92/6/2 (lead/antimony/tin) for all pistol boolits. Rotometals says the BHN is about 16 and it’s good for “many higher velocity rifle cartridges.”

[Forrest r]

I use nothing but 8/9bhn range scrap for every pistol caliber I reload for up to +/- 25,000psi loads with pc'd bullets.

I water drop the cast bullets simply because it keep them from getting banged up/dents on the bottom drive band. Typical water dropped range scrap is in the +/- 11bhn range. I loose most of the hardening from quenching when cast from the heat used for the pc coating.

A water dropped mihec 148gr hbwc that was cast/wd's and sized to .358" and then tumble lubed with 45/45/10. I was used in a 800fps 38spl load for a ppc revolver.
https://i.imgur.com/FtYVPsq.jpg

Same bullet pictured above, was practicing on the bowling pin table/trademark hits.
https://i.imgur.com/XVsDo3b.jpg

Same range scrap alloy used to cast a 429422 hb swc for a snubnosed 44spl. The bullet was cast and water dropped. Then pc'd, sized and then a hp added. The load is a 18,000psi+ 44spl load.
https://i.imgur.com/FTFbMo6.jpg

Same range scrap cast and water dropped, then pc'd and sized for the 9mm's. It's the mihec 125gr hp bullet, I use it to make piles of blammo ammo for a nm 1911.
https://i.imgur.com/a8fXZPh.jpg

That 1911/blammo ammo combo pictured above. Typical 10-shot groups @ 50ft using a +/- 25,000spi load.
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

Another blammo ammo bullet/load. 7gr of bullseye pushing a mihec 640 432-hp 245gr bullet that was cast from range scrap and water dropped. Then pc'd and sized to .430" using a load that is in the +/- 20,000psi range. Don't take much stock in 3-shot groups, was simply sighting a burris fastfireIII in on a 10" contender @ 100yds to bang on steel. More blammo ammo.
https://i.imgur.com/7KMGHIm.jpg

It's the bullet on the right. Never cared for the bullet on the left and ended up selling the mold.
https://i.imgur.com/bMDc2PH.jpg

The range scrap/pc'd combo makes for excellent plinking bullets in rifles. No need for gc's when I run them 1700fps or less. It's only a 10-shot group @ 50yds but it makes excellent blammo ammo.
https://i.imgur.com/BJ3ovpc.jpg

Anyway no need to worry about xxx bhn with pc'd bullets.

FWIW:
I've been using/shooting nothing more than 8/9bhn range scrap for 99%+ of my cast needs since the 80's (85/86?). The harder bhn cast bullets work better for masking my reloading errors then actually putting lead where I want it to go.

IMHO:
The soft alloy game is won or lost with the expander die. Don't get the correct expansion for the soft alloy and things like bullet deformation start becoming more common. A soft bullet isn't a bulldozer but a hard bullet can be.

[bangerjim]

Don't try to increase hardness with Sn! Too costly. Use an Sb-rich alloy like hardball to go above standard COWW hardness.

I cast 10-12 for EVERYTHING, except my 30-06's. PC'ing DOES pretty much eliminated the worry of hardness for me! (I do check it periodically with my Cabine tester). Never any leading in anything (hand or long guns) with PC.

Try it....you will convince yourself very fast you do no longer need hard boolits for most guns as was the gospel in the past.

[Daekar]

I push COWW+2% tin to almost 2000fps after PC with fine accuracy and no leading. I think PC really is a game changer in some ways.

[Paramax55]

I had already been PCing, but also got too into the whole BHN thing and never saw where anyone talked about how PC changed requirements. Elvis Ammo has a couple of videos on loading cast for .223/5.56. He doesn't talk about BHN, but maybe I'll try raising it a little for those and shoot all my soft stuff in pistol.

[Paramax55]

Forrest - that hollow point mold looks cool, but probably a lot more work than a typical Lee mold...

[bangerjim]

Forrest - that hollow point mold looks cool, but probably a lot more work than a typical Lee mold...

I have 6 different multi cavity HP molds, each with a set of pins that allow you to change the design/size of the cavity. When I cast with them, the boolits just rain out of these new design BRASS molds. Not your grandfather's single cavity mold with a wooden-handled plug in the end to form the cavity.

A modern BRASS HP multi-cavity mold will make just about as many boolits/hour as you standard old Lee Al 6 cavity.

Try one you WILL like it!

banger

[white eagle]

you can't beat Miha's molds as far as I am concerned
like you said the just drop like candy from the gods

[Paramax55]

I just checked out those molds. Very nice stuff! And not really that expensive for the quality you get. And it looks like he has stuff available that's sold out in Lee form. And some of the Lee prices are higher than his right now.

[Cast10]

I’ve chosen a alloy for my first boolits in 10mm/ 401-175-TC of; 1% SN , 2.57 SB, and 96.4% Pb. The calculator says 11.3 BHN. I’m shooting for a moderate to full (not nuclear) 10mm load for hogs. Will be shot in a Glock stock G20 and a 16” Carbine. I arrived at these numbers by mixing a bar (5.25lbs) of Hardball with SOWW’s (7lbs). My tests by pencil did indeed yield about 12. I have not loaded/shot these yet.

The boolits were air cooled, PC’d, air cooled.

[Burnt Fingers]

I have 6 different multi cavity HP molds, each with a set of pins that allow you to change the design/size of the cavity. When I cast with them, the boolits just rain out of these new design BRASS molds. Not your grandfather's single cavity mold with a wooden-handled plug in the end to form the cavity.

A modern BRASS HP multi-cavity mold will make just about as many boolits/hour as you standard old Lee Al 6 cavity.

Try one you WILL like it!

banger

I find the MP hollow point molds cast much faster than the NOE hollow point molds.

My four cavity hollow point MP molds cast just as fast as a similar standard four cavity. A brass four cavity HP mold should out cast a Lee six cavity mold. Those Lee molds get overheated quickly.

[markmars]

The MP molds look interesting. I'm needing a .356 mold with 90 to 115 grains for a .380 rounds.

[m37]

Burnt Fingers is exactly right about adding antimony see my post in this thread on how to add antimony
mike

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?424382-Proper-Alloying-of-Lead-and-Antimony

[rfd]

9mm and .45-70 - casting 30:1 and 20:1, air cooled, PC'd and water cooled, sized and loaded. No leading, no issues, good accuracy out of a TNW ASR 9mm semi-auto carbine and a Ruger RAPc pistol (W231), and a Henry S/S .45-70 rifle (AA5744).

[a.squibload]

My 2¢ worth:

Been casting soft 40s and 44s, swage in a hollowpoint, then PC.
I even swaged a 120gn 9mm to make a 40 hp, zippy, works the slide.
No leading. Barrels clean up in a few swipes w/ Ed's Red.

I use the basket method for baking, then toss 'em in a bucket of water
with a cheap plastic colander in the bottom. Drain the water off & shake 'em up,
helps to break 'em apart and possibly hardens the boolits a bit.

[dogmower]

I quit testing hardness a few years ago. Just use enough tin or linotype to get good mold fill out and desired cast size. Remember that powder coating usually increases diameter a couple thousandths. I shoot several rifle boolits without gas checks (M1 carbine, 50 beowulf, 450 Bushmaster) and they shoot well, no leading. If you're powder coating, BHN is less a factor than size (ideally a few thousandths over bore diameter), IMO.

[marky123]

It is.

Just as when adding sugar to sweet tea. You don't have to have the sweet tea at the melting point of sugar.

Antimony will dissolve in lead if you use the proper flux.

OP.

I use a BHN of 10-11 for almost all my shooting needs. You can shoot pure lead in 45 ACP with no problems as long as bullet fit is correct. I normally use Hi-Tek as a coating. The only times I go harder than 10-11 is for some 327FM loads and for rifle loads.

What's the proper flux for antimony/lead?

[m37]

citric acid is what i found to be the best but you need read my post in this link
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?424382-Proper-Alloying-of-Lead-and-Antimony



What's the proper flux for antimony/lead?

[a.squibload]

I forgot to say: the metal scrapyard here usually has bags of shot, had a dozen or more
last time I was there. Usually small shot and bags with holes in 'em but an easy source
of antimony I guess.

[murf205]

I push COWW+2% tin to almost 2000fps after PC with fine accuracy and no leading. I think PC really is a game changer in some ways.

It is a game changer for sure. I use range lead and 2% tin to push a PC'd boolit 2100 fps in a 15" barrel Encore with good accuracy and not a trace of leading. No water quenching with casting or Pc'ing Since I started pc'ing I have not had any leading problems, period. BUT...never forget that "fit is king"

[Wolftracker]

I use wheel weight or harder for rifle rounds, though I don't really know the BHN. I did find that soft PC'd lead didn't work well in a 25-06. One shot and there was a cloud of lead and I spent quite a bit of time cleaning that bore. On the other hand, wheel weights with 4 or 5 nuggets of super hard per 10 lbs, along with PC, gas checks and quenching lets me shoot 223 at sufficient pressure to work in an AR and poses no leading problem in a 1/9 twist with Winchester 748 powder. Also no problem in a 308 with IMR 3031 but I keep those down to 2200 fps or less because they've proven to be more accurate at lower speeds. Good plinkers and usually 1 1/2 inch or less groups at 100 yds.

[fredj338]

In a handgun, probably not as much. The softest I run in service calibers is ranges scrap. I water drop out of the PC oven & they come in about 11-12bhn. Plenty hard for 9mm & 40 pressures. I would also shoot those in midrange magnums. For max loads in magnums, I might want them a bit harder, but the PC does a good job with leading/accuracy if the bullet fit is correct.

[Charlie Horse]

Isn't there a thread of someone PCing pure lead .45 acp?

Got a link? I was thinking of casting some pure lead (roof sheathing) then powder coating them for deer hunting. Hoping to get some expansion.

[CPTCUFFS]

My bullets that I PC are .45rn and .44swc both out of lee molds running range scrap. I cast, then PC, then size. I seems the harder I push them the better they do. I generally just load max loads out of the book and they seem to do fine. The .45acp is one of my most accurate handguns.

[gnappi]

Nowadays, I only cast pistol bullets and if I can't scratch my cast bullets with my thumbnail, I quench the PC'd bullets out of the oven and be done with it.

[mehavey]

Isn't there a thread of someone PCing pure lead .45 acp?
See
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?411499-severe-leading-on-first-cast-boolits&p=5099015&viewfull=1#post5099015
Run just fine....

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I much prefer soft bullets these days. I've been casting all my self-defense and hunting boolits. 100% pure lead in my revolver rounds with a powder coat. No leading. For 9mm and 45auto I add a little range scrap but still around BHN4, reason being I don't want to deform on the ramp going in the tube.

762x39 and 308win are cast soft enough to deform on the seater die. I PC for the AK the 308 boolits are gas checked and not powder coated. They go up to 1800fps without leading.

My fix for some soft 9mm lubed boolits that were leading was to stick them in a pot with boiling water to remove the lube then gave them some PC. Fixed the problem.

[Hickok]

I use 50/50 + some tin (COWW/pure lead) and powder coat (Smoke's pc) all my boolits nowadays, handguns and rifle.

I go up to 2100 fps with gascheck in 30/30 and .308 Winchester with 170-200 gr boolits with no leading, and very good accuracy.

For me, powder coat is the way to go.

[Dragonheart]

To answer the original question.

Barrel rifling is approximately .004" land to groove. PC is about the same hardness as pure copper plate but tougher, better bonded and a lot slicker. So if you create a sufficient build out of properly applied and cured PC then you have in fact created a polymer jacket. If the jacket is thick enough it is the bullet's jacket that seals, insulates and protects the inner bullet's core from torque spinup.

For handguns bullets I single PC, which is sufficient even for pure lead.

For full power rifle bullets I double PC going for a .003" build out. I don't worry about alloy at all as I shoot range scrap, which is anywhere in the 8-12 BIN. My ingots of range scrap is melted down from a 200 pound pot. My .003" is not a guess the build out was calculated by a Phd polymer physicist back in 2012 when I first got into PC for my 30/06 to provide a jacket sufficient for 50,000 pounds or more of chamber pressure.

I do believe perfectly installed gas checks improve accuracy because they cover an imperfect bullet base and make it flat, but a gas check is not necessary just to protect the base from gas cutting as the PC will do that..

[BJung]

From what is posted online, 9mm, .357mag and 40cal require a higher bhn than .38 and .45. I cast ingots from range scrap first, let it age for 6months and separate the ingots by estimated bhn lots using lead pencils. I don't use gas checks on them. I do use gas checks on my powder coated Lee .311-185gr bullets. The lead used was 50/50, WW and range scrap/tin.

[Charlie Horse]

"Can you just PC and (almost) forget about BHN?"

I do.

[Willbird]

Isn't there a thread of someone PCing pure lead .45 acp?

I played around a long long time ago with pure lead in 45 acp. I had a pistol that had shot some groups around 1.5" at 50 yards (yes 50) from a ransom rest using linotype bullets. I was playing with pure lead because I had a source and it was a known alloy, and I was curious. The best I got out of pure lead was 3" at 25 yards over 4.0 of Bullseye for a 200 grain bullet.

With the gun in a ransom rest all of the fired bullets were going into a hole they created in the backstop about 75 yards down range. I was able to recover some fired pure lead bullets. The rifling land marks in the bullets were about 50% wider than a linotype bullet meaning they skidded a bit when entering the rifling IMHO.

I never really drilled down back then into other alloys than lino and pure lead because they were the only for sure pure alloys I had avail to me.

Bill

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

From what is posted online, 9mm, .357mag and 40cal require a higher bhn than .38 and .45

Shhh! Don't tell my 9mm and .357s this! They don't seem to be aware of this.

I cast straight COWW, powder coat, then turn the oven off and let them cool slowly. I have only seen leading when I pushed 125s in a .357Mag 24-inch barrel (levergun) past 2200 fps. I don't really run max powder charges because I don't like to weigh each charge. So maybe my pressures are low? But the velocities seem to compare to jacketed.

[Dragonheart]

To answer your question, Yes, BHN is not important with a properly coated and cured PC bullet. Hardness is a hold over from shooting cast bullets lubed with grease. PC is in fact build a jacketed bullet. A quick check of the pressure tables will tell you this. Do commercial bullet manufactures worry about the hardness of the inner core of a jacketed bullet or do they just use soft lead?

[maglvr]

"(I shoot at my house)" Not only is that dangerous if others are home, it may well ruin the value of the place should you decide to sell someday! :-)

[Dragonheart]

If you compare a copper plated bullet with a copper jacket what is the difference other than the process? The difference is the thickness of the jacket and possibly the hardness of the jacket if the copper jacket alloyed for hardness.

So consider the PC process, first the polymer must be properly applied and cured. If the PC hasn't reached full cure then it can leave residue in the barrel.This could all happen with a poor quality or softer thermoset polymer is selected; just because it is a powdered polymer doesn't mean they are all the same. Do you know what kind of polymer you are using or maybe mixing different polymers together with unknown results? The different polymers produce different characteristics including bond, toughness, elasticity, durability and hardness.

If the polymer jacket is too thin then the inner core becomes an issue due torque spin up, just as it does when a thin copper plated bullet exceeds its recommended velocity. There again the type and quality of the polymer used can make a difference. Rifling is approximately .004" deep, the reason lubed cast bullet hardness is important is a soft alloy will only take so much pressure before the torque causes it to tear, while a harder bullet alloy resists tearing.

A jacket of sufficient bond, hardness and thickness even with a soft alloy core does not teat as it rides the rifling. 10 years ago I discussed this issue with a Phd Polymer Physicist who knew nothing about PC bullets, but neither did anyone else. The professor calculated a .003" thermoset polymer build out would resist the torque spin up of 50k psi chamber pressure of a 30/06 i inquired about.

I single PC my handgun bullets, but if I am loading full power loads I do a partial cure, double PC. I have found PC to be stable at in full power loads 30/06 loads as well as 3500+ fps in a 22-250. I personally find it amazing we can create a polymer bullet jacket in the first place and second that it works so well.

[downzero]

My alloy is half stick on and half clip on, powdercoated, whether I shoot gas checked 300s at 1300+ out of a .45 or cowboy action 125 fnfp out of my revolvers with 2.7 grains of Clays, same alloy.

[oley55]

"(I shoot at my house)" Not only is that dangerous if others are home, it may well ruin the value of the place should you decide to sell someday! :-)

say what? Is this a Kalifornia thing?

[oley55]

It is.

Just as when adding sugar to sweet tea. You don't have to have the sweet tea at the melting point of sugar.

Antimony will dissolve in lead if you use the proper flux.

OP.

I use a BHN of 10-11 for almost all my shooting needs. You can shoot pure lead in 45 ACP with no problems as long as bullet fit is correct. I normally use Hi-Tek as a coating. The only times I go harder than 10-11 is for some 327FM loads and for rifle loads.

I have been contemplating putzing with pure/near pure for 45ACP. You have given me the confidence to give it a try. I hate using up my COWW for 50/50 if it's not needed.

[Dragonheart]

I have been contemplating putzing with pure/near pure for 45ACP. You have given me the confidence to give it a try. I hate using up my COWW for 50/50 if it's not needed.

At 45ACP velocities powder coated pure lead will work.

[Petander]

At 45ACP velocities powder coated pure lead will work.

Absolutely.

[Willbird]

Many moons ago I worked extensively with a really tightened and accurized 1911 in a ransom rest.

The very best groups were with pure linotype 452460 200 grain bullets. 4.0 grains of bullseye and Javalina lube. That combo achieved 1.25" for 5 shots at 50 yards.

I also played with pure lead and the best I could get with Bullseye powder was 3" at 25 yards. I recovered some of the fired pure lead bullets and measured the land marks with calipers and the land marks were about 25% wider than on a linotype bullet. I had no COWW back then, the only metals I had were lino and pure lead. The mold for the pure lead was a Lee 6 cavity tumble lead semiwadcutter.

The groups are the proof though, I always figured that a bit slower powder than Bullseye might work better with pure lead in 45 acp.

[Dragonheart]

Many moons ago I worked extensively with a really tightened and accurized 1911 in a ransom rest.

The very best groups were with pure linotype 452460 200 grain bullets. 4.0 grains of bullseye and Javalina lube. That combo achieved 1.25" for 5 shots at 50 yards.

I also played with pure lead and the best I could get with Bullseye powder was 3" at 25 yards. I recovered some of the fired pure lead bullets and measured the land marks with calipers and the land marks were about 25% wider than on a linotype bullet. I had no COWW back then, the only metals I had were lino and pure lead. The mold for the pure lead was a Lee 6 cavity tumble lead semiwadcutter.

The groups are the proof though, I always figured that a bit slower powder than Bullseye might work better with pure lead in 45 acp.

That is not surprising because the harder alloy is much better able to resist the torque of spin up. But a soft alloy can be encased in a hard jacket then it is the jacket resisting the force. This holds true whether the jacket is metal or polymer, there has to be sufficient thickness of the jacket.