1917 Enfield

[rjathon]

What is a fair price for a 1917 Enfield that was bought new in the wrapper many years ago, fired less than fifty times, and then placed in a closet for decades?

Thank you

[M-Tecs]

It depends on condition and if everything is matching. Collector grade have significant value but not so much for parts guns even if they are in very nice condition.

Here's a nice one https://www.gunbroker.com/item/896743344

[Four Fingers of Death]

You haven't mentioned what version it is.
I don't know about the US, but in Ausralia they are pretty common. Eddystones are like bottoms, everyone has one and they don't bring good dollars (even though they are perfectly serviceable), Remingtons are rarer, generally look a tiny bit nicer and bring better money and the Winchesters are the holy grail and rarely encountered. I have only ever seen two Winchesters over the years (I have been shooting M17s for 50 odd years), one was a rusty example that had been converted to a target rifle and the other was a sporterised sniper rifle which I gave to a mate who restored it back to original and found a correct scope for it.
The odd thing is a lot of shooters turn their nose up at Eddystones, but they are also Remingtons, made in the old Locomotive factory in Eddystone.

[Shawlerbrook]

I can tell you I used to buy and sell them for $100 to $300 in the early 90’s. Now you would be hard pressed to find one for less than $500. If yours is as described, matching and not an import, it is probably going for near four figures at a minimum.

[Petrol & Powder]

For starters, I would be suspicious of a seller claiming he had a 1917 that was, "...bought new in the wrapper many years ago, fired less than fifty times,..". The odds of the description being accurate are slim.
If it's a 1917 and not a Remington model 30, the only buyer that obtained a new one would have been the U.S. Government. After that, they were sold as surplus. So it may have been sold in a wrapper somewhere along its life, but it probably wasn't new when that happened.
And a reported round count of less than 50 might be true for ONE of the previous owners of that rifle but not for the rifle itself.

Putting that sales pitch aside; they are good rifles with strong actions. Many were shot with corrosive ammo. If cleaned properly after corrosive ammo is used, this is no problem. So close inspection of the bore is in order.

As stated above, they were reasonably priced years ago and good values. In today's climate, even a bad one will go for several hundred dollars. If it is in excellent condition, not modified and matching parts - I would expect it to easily be in the four figures range and probably over $2K

The statement that the rifle was purchased new in a wrapper many years ago is probably only true if the seller is referring the the U.S. government being that purchaser. If the seller is claiming HE purchased the rifle as a NEW rifle, I think you've got a used car salesman on your hand. Caveat Emptor

[Larry Gibson]

Not a 1917 Enfield. It would either be a U.S. Rifle M1917 or a British rifle P14 (U.S. made). Neither were made for or by Enfield.

[Bigslug]

Local shop has a VERY clean Winchester with RIA rebuild cartouches on the stock for $1600. It and the three similarly clean 1903 Springfields marked between $1800 and $2400 that it came in with on consignment have all been sitting on the racks for several weeks. Nobody's snapping them up at those prices - even in the current climate.

I bought a very nice Remington a bit over a year ago off a friend for $700, which we both thought was fair.

If you have a true original time capsule gun, you could probably find folks willing to pay north of $2000, but be ready to do the homework necessary to determine that it's not a refurb. Most U.S. surplus rifles are Frankenguns to some degree.

[rbuck351]

My dad bought one in 1936 or 37 when he was in the army. He said NRA was selling them for $7.50 for a rebuilt or $8 something for a new one. He bought a rebuilt one but said when it arrived it appeared to be new with a used stock. He cleaned the cosmoline from it and chambered a palma match round in it. When he ejected the round the bullet had stuck into the rifling enough to seperate it from the case. He used it for the rest of his life as his hunting rifle. The only mod he made was to remove the stacking swivel as it rattled. I don't know or care what it's worth as it won't be sold unless my son sells it after I'm gone.

The barrel is marked 1918 and it is an Eggystone.

[john.k]

There is a very considerable difference in desirability between an Eddystone and a Winchester,and price reflects this.......most who want an M17 already have an Eddystone,and just as many also want a Winchester,but havent found one.......I think one reason (apart from production) is that back in the day ,Winchesters were preferentially sporterised......then of course there is the Eddystone stigma of cracked recievers.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

It has taken me over 45 years to aquire just 4 Winchesters both M17 and much rarer P14 in original 303 British. Then came the search for Parker-Hale 5B range sights.

They are not making any more so the price escalates with each passing year. A Good sample Winchester will fetch $AU1000-1200 and the PH sight another $AU500-600

https://i.imgur.com/Lkp2rnA.png https://i.imgur.com/mM6qaqy.jpg

[Four Fingers of Death]

As well as a better finish on the Winchesters, they only made a fraction of the numbers that Remington and Eddystone made. I have the figures somewhere, the Eddystones were the most prolific by a large margin from memory.
I think the Eddystone cracking receivers is a problem, but not as big a problem as made out, I have seen squillions of Eddystones converted to hunting and (mostly) target rifles over the years.
I have tw0 Eddystones converted to 7.62 target rifles, a mintish Eddystone P14 with a fat boy stock (and with both long range volley sights), a Remington M17 in good condition, a Remington M17 with a Parker Sight (a bit smaller that the Parker Sight shown above) and a restocked M17 Eddystone sporter.
They all shoot well.
At those prices, I might start thinning the herd.

[Tripplebeards]

I traded for a Winchester the winter before last. I gave for it $40, a pair of Warne scope rings, and a little gun smithing. I mounted a scope, lightened a trigger, polished a bolt, and sighted the gun in. The 1917 had a sporter stock and timney trigger. I did the sporterizing 25 years ago for the guy. The original Stock was broke on half and tossed. I found a stock shoved in my rafters of a house I bought at the time. I cut it down per my buddies request and glass bedded it. I had the gun shooting half inch 100 yard groups with 125 grain Nosler ballistic tips. This a was around 95’. By the time I sold the sporter stock and timney trigger I bought a Winchester stock off eBay for not much more. The only things not marked “W” if I remember is the trigger plate and maybe the bolt? The rest is all Winchester...and it’s a shooter! I did some old posts here about it shooting all in the same hole at 100 yards the rest time I had it out to the range. I wouldn’t get rid of of it. There is a Winchester on the rack at my LGS for $1200. It’s been there for 2 years now with no buyers. IMO those guns are like 57’ Chevys at a car show. Everyone likes to look at them but no one buys them. IMO it’s worth what someone is willing to pay. Throw it up on GB. Do a penny auction and see what it brings. My guess it will go for $600 to $800 in the “eBay” of gun sales sites where people overpay for things.

[rjathon]

Not a 1917 Enfield. It would either be a U.S. Rifle M1917 or a British rifle P14 (U.S. made). Neither were made for or by Enfield.

Thank you Larry. I think that is a U.S. Rifle M1917. My friend is nearly 80 now and he bought it when he was a teenager growing up on a farm at the hardware store. He says that it was new in a wrapper and is a Remington. My guess is that it must have been a refurbished one that looked new. He bought two boxes of ammo for it that he never finished.

It was never cleaned after shooting and has been in a closet ever since.

[Bigslug]

It was never cleaned after shooting and has been in a closet ever since.

Then you need to take a deep breath and hope when you look down the barrel. Your friend was a teenager in the late '50's and early '60's. USGI .30-06 stopped being corrosive primed around 1953, but there was a lot of it out there. With luck, it's only plated with copper. I'll be holding my breath along with you.:popcorn:

[rjathon]

Then you need to take a deep breath and hope when you look down the barrel. Your friend was a teenager in the late '50's and early '60's. USGI .30-06 stopped being corrosive primed around 1953, but there was a lot of it out there. With luck, it's only plated with copper. I'll be holding my breath along with you.:popcorn:

He said that is ammo was lead tipped commercial. One box was 150 gr and one was 220 gr. He remembered that the 220 seemed to kick harder.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't wish to be negative here but you need to go into this with both eyes wide open.

As Bigslug correctly points out, your friend would have been 19 or 20 years old in 1961. So if he purchased that rifle in his late teens, we're looking at late 1950's or early 1960's; that rifle would have been around 40 years old at that point.
A rifle of that type sold in a hardware store circa 1960 could have come from several sources. It could have been CMP rifle that was re-sold, it could have been a surplus rifle from one of the larger distributors of the day, It could have been a rifle that maybe didn't make it back into an armory, it could have been a re-import into America, it's impossible to say with the current information.

Even if your friend didn't shoot corrosive ammo in the rifle, that's no guarantee that the bore was clean and bright when he got it.
So take a really good look at that rifle.

Now, that doesn't mean you should run away, it just means you need to make an informed decision.
Look at the markings, are they correct? Do they match? Look at the bore, carefully. Can you take the barreled action out of the stock? Has it been re-finished? Has it been re-barreled? TAKE YOUR TIME.

Since the story has already changed once ("I bought it new in the wrapper" verses "I bought it in a hardware store circa 1960"), I would consider any history about that rifle to be a bit dubious. Not because your friend is being less than truthful but because his memory may be a little fuzzy.

Look at the rifle and let the rifle tell you its history.

[GooseGestapo]

I bought a P17 Eddystone from CMP that has 95%+ finish and 0.5 TE and 0.5ME for $750 a little over a year ago.
I bought it for a “shooter”, not collector.
I haven’t shot any match am through it, only ball equivalent. It’s 2moa or under.
It’s an 11lb BRUTE! My 1943 03A3 is a svelte wand next to it.
I know now why in WWII, my dad traded his M2 Thompson for a 03A3!
22lbs vs 8.5lds. He was 5’6” 145lbs, MP. Cycled out an E8.
Never fired a shot according to uncles. Carried two 5shot strippers the entire war! Never even loaded the gun according to him. Escorted material or prisoners.

[rjathon]

My buddy returned with the rifle.

The rifle is a U.S. MODEL OF 1917. The serial number under 100,000. The barrel is marked W 11-17 and has five grooves. After cleaning the bore is bright and shiny and the rifling is excellent. The stock is in great shape. He bought it in the 1960’s at the local hardware store he thinks for ~ $25. It was in cosmoline and appeared brand new, to him, at that time. He bought a box of 220 gr bullets, with which he shot a deer, and years later a box of 150 gr bullets and he didn’t finish either box. It has been in a closet for decades. The finish is beautiful.

The apearance of the rifle is consistent with his story, and he is a straight shooter.

[Jim22]

I have owned a couple of P17's. The first was marked Eddystone. The second Winchester. There was some discussion about the Eddystone rifles back in the sixties having uneven heat treeating on the actions. A few were said to be too hard and thus brittle. I never had a problem with mine. Rechambered it to .30-06 Ackley Improved and killed game with it. In both cases the best thing I did was to put an aftermarket trigger in them. Dayton-Traister if I remember right. The 'Cock on closing' feature made them a little slower for backup shots but not much.

Jim

[Winger Ed.]

The 'Cock on closing' feature made them a little slower for backup shots but not much.

A buddy's Dad who was a Merchant Marine ship's Captain had unissued one in .30-06 he brought back from WWII.
He went all out to have it sporterized as his once in a lifetime custom rifle.

The rear sight was removed, scope mounts put on, a new ,30 machine gun barrel fitted, trigger work, new stock, and so on.
It may not be available anymore, but I'd swear some sort of kit or parts were put on that it cocked on opening.

He did it, just because he could, but it may not have ever been fired.
My buddy didn't remember him ever shooting it, and in his estate, there was no ammo for it.

[Rich/WIS]

Recall the cock on opening kits, another aftermarket was a replacement ejector that used a coil spring, the original was a leaf spring that was integral with the ejector and had a reputation for breaking.

[Walks]

I have two, an Eddystone that I paid about $75 for about $35yrs ago. The bore is a sewer pipe, but will keep 5rds into 2 1/2" at 100yrds with the battle sight. I put a Cock on Opening kit on it. If I ever buy a lottery ticket and win, I'll put a Criterion barrel on it. Spent about 100hrs refinishing the stock.

The other is a Sporter Conversion to .257Rob'ts that was My Grandfathers. Restocked and "ears" and Manufacturers name ground off, it is a good shooter with the old 117gr RN from Hornady or Remington.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Numrich Gun Parts Corp., and I think also SARCO, sold the cock on closing to opening kits for many years. I believe one or the other still has them available.

rjathon-- if you can agree on a price I think you should buy it. When I started following this thread my concern, like others posting, was that if the rifle had been fired, not cleaned, and stored many years ago that the bore would be corroded. But, since you've eliminated that problem, go for it.

However, being a collector myself, I'd hate to see it get chopped up to become a sporter. There are many rifles already out there that have been through Bubba's basement, just waiting for someone to come along and love them. The Remington is a desirable rifle; and in fact, following WW I, Remington continued making a sporting version that was popular for many years. It was minus the sight ears, but retained the dogleg bolt handle.

Way in the back of my shop somewhere is a Bubba-desecrated Winchester -17 that a customer once brought in and sold to me; Barrel and stock cut back, nice ramp sight mounted on the barrel, quite useable as-is. I bought a fancy grained semi-inlet stock for it as a future project, but never got to it. So many guns, so little time. Maybe someday.....:rolleyes:

DG

[muskeg13]

Sarco still carries the cock on opening kits for M1917s and P14s, also known as "Speed Lock" kits. $40 for the P14 and a nickel less for the M1917 at $39.95. I just got another one delivered in yesterday's mail for a P14. I noticed a slower/weaker lock time in my M1917 until I thoroughly cleaned the bolt interior, cleaned, lightly polished and lubed the firing pin shank, bolt shroud and cocking piece and installed what I judged to be the strongest main spring on hand.

A close inspection of the two SARCO speed lock/cock on opening kits reveals they are identical.

[rjathon]

I’m guessing that it is arsenal refurbished as it was in cosmoline but has mixed parts. The receiver, barrel, stock, and front band are Winchester but the cocking piece is Remington and the safety Eddystone. The bolt just has an “A” stamped on it.

The stock has a cartouche that is “R.A.-P”.

[Char-Gar]

The new in wrapper thing, runs up a red flag for me. Some years back some Aussie made Lee Enfields new in wrapper made it to this country. I don't think there were any new in wrapper 1917s every. This guy does not know what he is trying to sell, or else is a cheat.

[rjathon]

I don’t think that it was new in the wrapper but that he thought it was new as it was in cosmoline, wrapped in paper at the hardware store. He was just a farm kid buying an affordable rifle at the time. It is in great shape and could easily be perceived that way.

[muskeg13]

Something else to check when working on P14s and M1917s is the size of the bolt face opening and firing pin tip diameter. While installing another cock-on-opening speedlock, this time on a P14/M1917 hybrid (M1917 receiver, ejector, and magazine assembly, with P14 barrel and bolt) I noted the firing pin fall seemed too short. I found the firing pin tip was too wide to go through the opening in the P14 bolt face. Surveying the 6 firing pins on the workbench, 3 had thick pin tips and 3 had much thinner tips. Five of the firing pins are U.S. eagle marked M1917 pins and one was for a P14. In general, I think the M1917 was set up for a stronger, thicker, firing pin tip accommodated by a larger opening in the M1917 bolt face. The opening in the P14 bolt I'm using is tiny. Once I swapped to a thin tip firing pin, the speedlock functioned correctly.

I'm assembling the hybrid P14/17 to be rebored and rechambered to .35 Winchester.

[Palma-Match 308 190gr Win]

Hi rjathon,

I can only add a more general info. Despite this: here in Europe we saw this rifles being offered for ca. 1200 euros onwards. Within the last circa 10 years. Their condition should have been good, Eddystone and Remington-Products. Winchester M1917-Enfields, in contrast, appeared only very rarely. With higher prices,"of course".. .

Once in the 90's the price was approx. 500 Euros/Francs.

[fgd135]

Gosh, I only have one M1917, a minty Remington w/ a WW1 Remington barrel; I thought I paid a lot for it several years ago, but it sounds like maybe it was not overpriced after all.

[MUSTANG]

I consider my P14 and M1917 as personal treasures. Someone will plunder my "Pyramid" one day when I am gone and take them to add to their "Treasures".

[Char-Gar]

The US Model 1917 is a great rifle. Many were rearsenaled during wwII and kept in storage and later given to veterans groups for their Color Guards. In the late 50's they were sold for $25-30 and I bought several. If it was in Cosmoline it likely was rearsenaled during WWII and later sold as surplus. I will be 80 in a few months the story sound true to me.

I would guess the value of the rifle today would be $800 to $900.

[Dutchman]

Description and Rules for the Management of the United States Rifle caliber .30, Model of 1917

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/temp/Model%201917%20Rifle.pdf

[Palma-Match 308 190gr Win]

The Enfield M1917 is truly a great rifle :-) It's still in use in the very cold north of Denmark by the Sirius Sled Patrol.

[toot]

WOW!! a real closet queen!!?

[Gewehr-Guy]

Last week at the Sioux Falls,SD gun show I found a real beauty. It's a Remington and still caries about 90% of the original blue, was a lend-lease rifle sent to England, and probably never fired over there. It still has a few traces of the red stripe painted around the stock, just behind the upper barrel band, to designate it as caliber 30-06, rather than a P14 in 303.

The bore is as new, and I plan to use it in our CBA matches this summer.

[Adam Helmer]

I have always liked the M1917 better than the M1903. I own several of both, but the 1917 is the better gun. I was blessed to acquire all three M1917 makes in the 1960s when the getting was good. I paid $7.50 for the Eddystone, $15 for a low numbered (9,8xx) Remington and a mint Winchester for $25.00.

The Eddystone is the best in accuracy and trigger. I got a Remington mint M1917 bayonet for $2.50 with the Winchester in 1967. As a college student under the G.I. Bill, I got every nice military arm my funds allowed. If I had $1,000.00 back then, I would be a millionaire today.

Adam

[Rich/WIS]

Following the discussion, remember the local sports emporium had a cardboard barrel of them. All were still cosmoline coated and not sure of maker. IIRC they were $25 each.

[GunnerAsch]

I have a number of 1917s and a couple P14s, all have been sporterized at one time or another. Some were poorly done, and I cleaned them up properly after they came to me. I have a 1917 in 375 H&H that was my daily Alaska gun for many winters and took down 2 grizz in order to save peoples lives.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xn8oVimTzRXbAu4k8

I have a P14 that came as an action and I installed a 30" heavy barrel chambered in 45-70. With proper load development and BASIC brass.. it shoots up there with 458 Grand African.I usually use it with a 500gr cast spitzer to shoot those horrific man eating California ground squirrels
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lz6A9ojWSGgoZRQq8

My personal top 5 favorites includes one I sporterized just for just for me. Have very long arms and it has a 14"length of pull and fits me like a glove. Timeny, bedded, etc etc.
Ive carried it a gazillian miles.
Its not pretty, its not fancy.. but it will keep 5 inside of 5/8" at 100 all day and only after 7rds does it start to walk a smidgen to the right.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jbv9xAnnTjNtUcs69

[Palma-Match 308 190gr Win]

WOW!! a real closet queen!!?


?? Rather an Icebear-Gun ! 🙃😉

And perhaps a bit too large fior some of the soldiers

[Palma-Match 308 190gr Win]

Brrr !

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[Palma-Match 308 190gr Win]

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