Need help getting lead harder

[lead slead]

Hey all new here and casting. I smelted down some ww and the ingots just seem too soft. I can scrach em with my finger nail. They are pretty shiny, but I think I will need to get them harder. I don't yet have a hardness tester yet. I have heard you can put some lead free solder in the mix and that will harden it up. I would like to know opinion of how much lead free solder to put in per 10lbs of ww ingots. :confused:

[JohnH]

Plain wheel weight will typically run between 10-13 BHN. It is just fine as is for pistol boolits and will work better than you may realize for rifle. If you want a harder boolit, try dropping them in water straight from the mold.

[docone31]

What are you hardening up for?
Usually, wheel weights alone are enough for about anything but muzzle loaders. They need soooft.
Unless you load paper patch, I do not really believe you are going to get warp velocities.
If you have had leading issues, it is not hardness, but fit to groove dia.
However, when I add tin, and I do for fillout sometimes, I add about three inches of Lead free solder to 20lbs.
Mostly I watch the castings for fillout. Sometimes it is mold temperature.
I also water drop on casting. That hardens them up some. I do it to keep pouring fast. Basically I started doing it, and I do it now. I pour, de-sprue, water drop. I do about 500 at a time. I get tired easily sometimes.
If you are loading for pistol, wheel weight is enough. I use wheel weight and sometimes a tad of tin for my .30s, and .303.
Once again, I believe sizing is more important than hardness with castings.

[lead slead]

thanks guys. The reason I thought they may need to be harder Is I had bought hard cast lead boolits before and you couldn't scratch them worth nothing. They leaded up my barrel something awful too. I figured it was because the bullet was too hard because they would shatter rather then mushroom when they hit something hard. Shooting S&W 40 pistol 180gr 4.0-4.2 titegroup nice results but leads. Tried 6.5-6.7grs power pistol same deal. Trying different lube and making my own bullets to try but it sounds like the softer stuff may do just fine.

[454PB]

welcome to the forum, lead slead.

Straight wheelweight alloy should work fine for your needs. Slug your barrel, then size .001" over.

[docone31]

Yeah, I had heard about the Hard Cast projectiles.
They are an one size fits all.
Each barrel has its own size.
Do yourself a very large favour.
Slug the barrel. That is driving a piece of lead down the bore, and measure. I go .002 over groove diameter. Have not had leading yet.
Hard castings will shatter upon impact with an irrestable object. My paper patched loads, when I tried to find one to observe, was little pieces. That was on hitting sand at 2700fps! Made a large crater though.
When I shot IHMSA, my loads would powder on steel. With my .338-06 Ackley in Unlimited, they would penetrate the steel. Those were jacketed loads.
Too hard a lead and too loose a bore, will develop skidding on the rifleing instead of engraveing. You want to engrave the casting.
With my .45ACP, both my 1911s prefer .452. I lucked out on that one. I took a guess and it worked. With my .357/38s I size to .359. Again, no leading, good accuracy.
I am pretty sure, with your load, you will not need tin. Plain water dropped wheel weight will more than do. I use my own lube.
Sizing. Very important, unless you enjoy scrubbing the bore. Slug the bore.
Lee makes great Push Thru Sizers which I use for my castings. They do the job for me. I pan lube, size, load, and make more.
Pan lubeing smells good also.
Back when, I went for my security permit. I had to qualify, and carry what I qualified with. I got some store bought Hard Cast for my test. I had used reloaded castings before so I figuired these would work.
Wrong!, and at the wrong time. Hang ups, stove pipes, accuracy went down the tube.
I am an instinctive shooter. I hit what I see. I couldn't hit my hand in front of the barrel that day!
I had been reloading for about 15yrs at that point. I had my "pet" load in my favourite Commander. I felt confident.
I looked like an idiot. You usually have to reapply for the practical, the inspector was a caster and let me use my regular load. It took me forever to clean the bore when I got home.
Save yourself time, and money. Slug the barrel. It is simple and EFFECTIVE. Size matters!
Once you find that sweet spot, it will be your favourite.
Melt your wheel weights in a seperate pot! Keeps the mess out.
Welcome aboard, and great luck. A lot of competant folks will pipe in on this one.
They sure helped me out.

[yodar]

Yeah, I had heard about the Hard Cast projectiles.
They are an one size fits all.
Each barrel has its own size.
Do yourself a very large favour.
Slug the barrel. That is driving a piece of lead down the bore, and measure. I go .002 over groove diameter. Have not had leading yet.
Hard castings will shatter upon impact with an irrestable object. My paper patched loads, when I tried to find one to observe, was little pieces. That was on hitting sand at 2700fps! Made a large crater though.
When I shot IHMSA, my loads would powder on steel. With my .338-06 Ackley in Unlimited, they would penetrate the steel. Those were jacketed loads.
Too hard a lead and too loose a bore, will develop skidding on the rifleing instead of engraveing. You want to engrave the casting.
With my .45ACP, both my 1911s prefer .452. I lucked out on that one. I took a guess and it worked. With my .357/38s I size to .359. Again, no leading, good accuracy.
I am pretty sure, with your load, you will not need tin. Plain water dropped wheel weight will more than do. I use my own lube.
Sizing. Very important, unless you enjoy scrubbing the bore. Slug the bore.
Lee makes great Push Thru Sizers which I use for my castings. They do the job for me. I pan lube, size, load, and make more.
Pan lubeing smells good also.
Back when, I went for my security permit. I had to qualify, and carry what I qualified with. I got some store bought Hard Cast for my test. I had used reloaded castings before so I figuired these would work.
Wrong!, and at the wrong time. Hang ups, stove pipes, accuracy went down the tube.
I am an instinctive shooter. I hit what I see. I couldn't hit my hand in front of the barrel that day!
I had been reloading for about 15yrs at that point. I had my "pet" load in my favourite Commander. I felt confident.
I looked like an idiot. You usually have to reapply for the practical, the inspector was a caster and let me use my regular load. It took me forever to clean the bore when I got home.
Save yourself time, and money. Slug the barrel. It is simple and EFFECTIVE. Size matters!
Once you find that sweet spot, it will be your favourite.
Melt your wheel weights in a seperate pot! Keeps the mess out.
Welcome aboard, and great luck. A lot of competant folks will pipe in on this one.
They sure helped me out.
=================================
I agree with the thrust of the posts I've seen in this thread.

But when I load for rifle , and I thought wheel weight ought'a work fine, I am more comfortable with a harder alloy and I add a heaping tablespoonful of Magnum shot (rich in antimony) to my tin-augmented wheel weight alloy

The bullets work fine in the SKS and attract comment from nearby benchers

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1229/6309647/12253703/233048100.jpg

yodar

[runfiverun]

try scratching them after a week.

[AZ-Stew]

You say they're soft and shiny. Are they clip-on WWs,or stick-on? I get shiny ingots with the stick-on WWs, but dull gray ones from cliip-ons. If they're stick-on, they're essentially pure lead and will need to be hardened. If they're clip-on, thake runfive's advice and let them sit around for a week and see if they don't harden up. Remember that this will apply to the boolits you cast, as well. If you cast, size/lube and load one day and shoot them the next day, they'll still be soft. If you want hard boolits you'll have to leave them sit for a number of days until they harden.

Regards,

Stew

[randyrat]

try scratching them after a week. BINGO and you may want to wait 2 weeks then see how hard you WW ingots are.

[Bret4207]

BINGO and you may want to wait 2 weeks then see how hard you WW ingots are.

Yupper! I didn't figure this out till after I got a hardness tester. I was getting WW boolits in the 7-8 Bhn range. One of the guys here said check them in a week. Well, a week turned into a couple months. Holy smokes!!! My 7-8 had turned to 13!!! Just where it should have been with the magnum shot I'd added. The water quenched WW was up over 20!

Size, lube and add the GC if needed now. Let them sit for a few days and you'll have a better idea what you have. And ditto on the size advice. +.001-.003 or as large as the chamber will allow usually gets me my best grouping and little to no lead.

[lead slead]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I did what they recommended and it works. Slugged the bore...got the right size and let the boolits set up some. works like a champ....now I am going to try out some cast in my 06...im hooked.

[Wayne Smith]

...And another one Bites the Dust!!

[indiana]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I did what they recommended and it works. Slugged the bore...got the right size and let the boolits set up some. works like a champ....now I am going to try out some cast in my 06...im hooked.

For what it's worth..... another way of hardening lead is to heat cure them. I'm certainly not going to debate the relativeness of why one would want a BH of over 25 using WW castings, but this is certainly possible. It is a very easy procedure and you don't have to wait two weeks to achieve the results. I am new to reloading but have spent a few weekends validating this an have achieved harder castings. I am fortunate to work at a place that has a hardness tester and on one batch I recorded 27.
If anyone is interested in how I do this, PM me.
By the way, the reason why I was hardening my castings is because I was trying to get tighter groups at higher velocities using my 44 Marlin. I essentially want to sight in at 100 yards and not be set for all other yardages in between without re-sighting. I'm realizing this is a bigger challenge than expect. My groups are 4 1/2" from target at 100 but 7" from target higher at 50 yards.
Again, I'm still learning and will continue to investigate all variables.

[indiana]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I did what they recommended and it works. Slugged the bore...got the right size and let the boolits set up some. works like a champ....now I am going to try out some cast in my 06...im hooked.
By the way, what is the procedure for slugging a barrel?
And. this is no attempt to high-jack this thread but to all reading, what bullet type will get me the best accuracy out to 100 yards out of a 1:38 twist 44 Marlin?
Thanks