Cast 30-30 for bear

[fatelk]

The short of it: a good friend can't find ammo for his 30-30. I have a load worked up for my 30-30 that shoots well. It's a Lee 170gr GC, powder coated. It's a full power load that even shoots very close to point of aim for factory 170gr JSPs. The lead is range scrap with maybe 10-15% linotype. (I know, I'm not terribly scientific)

I don't even want to get into the whole "don't share your reloads" thing; he's been a good friend for the better part of half a century, and one of the few people I have no problem sharing my reloads with.

The question is: how do you expect these would work on coastal black bear? Are they going to be about as effective as store-bought 170gr JSPs, or should he just spend the outrageous money from a scalper on gunbroker to buy the ammo he needs? He's a VERY experienced hunter, and a good shot. I'm not a hunter at all, so I don't know about these things.

[barrabruce]

How well do they feed and shoot in his gun?

I know nothing about bears thou.

[725]

I've gotten a few bears but am not a true expert, by any means. Black bears are not hard to kill, but good shot placement is paramount. As long as the alloy isn't too hard, I'd say you will be fine. You may want to shoot some water jugs or wet newsprint to see how they perform. If they do not deform, I would think them too hard. I'd opt for a double lung / heart shot.

[Ateam]

I think we need a little more info on the hunt/hunter. Is this a hunt he does yearly, or is it a once in a lifetime tag? How many bear has he successfully bagged before?

If this is NOT a once in a lifetime tag, and he has killed bear before, I think cast is a great choice.
I suspect your boolits will be a little on the hard side, but Black bear are not hard to kill and it will probably be fine.

If this is a big hunt for him and he is unlikely to do it again/ has a ton of money into it, then I would tell him to suck it up and pay for the ammo. Regardless of price, in this scenario, it is likely a very small percentage of the total outlay.

[Markopolo]

personally, I go after bears every year. i believe the 30-30 and the lee 170 will be fine for an experienced hunter. just make total sure he gets some range time and knows exactly how it will preform with his gun... i use a bit of a harder bullet on them and they can be tough if they get excited. and a shoulder shot will break down a bigger bear faster then anything and will help keep them planted. always be ready for a follow up shot. have him take his time.. no rushing. Like 725 said above, if they do not preform, soften them up some.. bigger bears are harder to pass through then deer. so i tend to be harder for black bears then my deer alloy. and never shoot a running spooked bear.

the bigger the metplat, the better.

hope this helps.

Marko

[memtb]

With an experienced, cool, calm, collected hunter and good bullet placement.....should work fine. Though, IMO if the bears get quite large.....the challenge increases exponentially! memtb

[Three44s]

In case his bear turns out to be a big Bruin, I would suggest your friend wears a big iron on his hip just in case things turn south that he is good with if possible.

Personally the 35 Rem in a Marlin lever is my choice for brush bustin’ and I am not even a bear hunter.

Three44s

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Depends where he is hunting, once in lifetime?, every year? expected size of bears? black bears in Idaho, Montana tend to be small, 200lbs +/-, some of the PA and Carolina bears can be 400-600 plus. I think in the 30-30, the new Barnes Original(pure lead,pure copper) 190 gr would be my choice, or one of heavier 190 plus/minus molds from Accurate or NOE. Of course the 170gr Swift and Nosler Partitions work well, then there is the good old Core-Lokt.

[Eddie Southgate]

I would love to be able to kill a bear but there are none in the areas that I hunt . I can't imagine that your load would not kill a bear though since for as long as I can remember two of the most popular guns with the dog hunters I know who do kill bears are Winchester 92 carbines in 38-40 and 44-40 and the Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine . The fellow shooting the Ruger does use jacketed Hp ammo but he buys the Blazer aluminum cased stuff and it's rather mild compared to most of the brass cased stuff I have shot in mine , still kills his bear with one good shot . The guys shooting the 92's use handloads with cast from wheel weights and so far as I know have no horror stories about wounded bears due to insufficient ammo / bullet hardness . The shot placement as always is the key .

[Win94ae]

The short of it: a good friend can't find ammo for his 30-30. I have a load worked up for my 30-30 that shoots well. It's a Lee 170gr GC, powder coated. It's a full power load that even shoots very close to point of aim for factory 170gr JSPs. The lead is range scrap with maybe 10-15% linotype. (I know, I'm not terribly scientific)
You need to test them in his rifle, unless he is using your rifle.
On second thought, that might not be a good idea, why don't you have him bring over his gun, and you load develop a load for it? Because... see comment below.


I don't even want to get into the whole "don't share your reloads" thing; he's been a good friend for the better part of half a century, and one of the few people I have no problem sharing my reloads with.
Not sharing handloads has nothing to do with friendship; it has to do with developing a load for one gun, that is strong, then shooting it in a not so strong gun. You don't want to blow-up your friends gun, while blinding, maiming or killing him!

[quilbilly]

Most of the bears around my neighborhood on the Olympic Peninsula (and there are lots of them) run less than 300#. We even have a runt adult (over 4 years old) boar bear boar that can't weigh more than 140# soaking wet but he has a really bad attitude making him dangerous. I think any would be a candidate for the 30/30 with the load you created. There is one local, very timid, supersized boar I have seen in my yard that is clearly well over 400#. I might suggest a little bigger gun for that one or just pass on it until a normal one comes by.

[fatelk]

Sorry, I thought it went without saying that we would make sure that these loads would function safely and accurately in his rifle. I expect they will, since they are near twins, same make and model, slightly different vintage. We'll do our due diligence on that part. :)

As to whether this is a hunt of his lifetime- no, definitely not. More like the daily go-to-work kind of hunt. He's a government trapper, and it's his job to deal with problem bears from time to time. When I say he's an experienced hunter, he's very experienced. He prefers his old 30-30 and his boss can't seem to source any ammo for him, so I offered to let him try some of mine until his normal sources become available again. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. He has backup in the form of a Model 29 on his hip, and dogs, but even these smaller bears are dangerous creatures. I wouldn't want to face one under any circumstances with ammo that's not up to the task.

[Screwbolts]

First and foremost you can not even begin to comprehend how little I care that you may or may not discharge a weapon at a running moving target.

In the Mid 90s,the third Black bear that fell to one of my shots was actually killed with a 42 gr fragment of a condom wrapped 150 gr 30 cal bullet that had been fired/launched from a P14 that had been re chambered to 30-06. The shot was well placed at a running bear At 65 yards, Redfield rear peep and appropriate front sight, I believe a Lyman single screw . I hit a 3" beech sapling right next to the side of that bear, there was line of wood splinters on the ground that had been stopped by the side of the bear. specs of hair on the snow, visible blood trail on snow starting in 10 feet, Dead bear in sight 41 paces from the Kilt tree. There were 2 tiny entrance holes in the hide that were found as I skinned the beast. the smaller fragment was in the rib meat. the larger fragment penetrated both sides of the ribs and left a small hole low threw both lungs. I found the 42 gr chunk of lead under the hide opposite of entrance.

Yes a well placed shot from a 22 always triumphs over a Mega magnum poor hit from mega magnum or a 4 gauge. I believe there is nothing that can survive a well placed hit from that Lee cast boolit you reference. I would not hesitate to use it. Even If it were a once in a lifetime hunt ,If that's what I had there I would not hesitate to use it.

[popper]

I assume the ammo he would be using is 170 coreloc. With proper alloy I don't see a difference

[badguybuster]

Ive used a 187 grain hard cast gas check over 3031 on black bear and its pretty effective. Its on the softer side at and smooshes pretty good making a heckuva hole when it passes thru ribs or shoulder. That being said....I have some 150 grain barnes tsx projectiles for 30-30 that I would sell him as well as some.coreloc

[jim147]

While i think this load will work I question that they can't find ammo. Do they not have the internet? I can order ammo without trying right now. Yes it's 3-3.50 a round for corelocks or leverlution but it is quick to find.

My local fed game warden is free to spend as many of our tax dollars as needed. But he only spends what he truly needs to.

[Texas by God]

I'd listen to Markopolo- bears watch TV on his porch[emoji16]....
This has nothing to do with a bear, but the other day I put a 50/50 Lee C309170F through a 2ft box filled with room temperature gel freezer bags at 100yds. It was found 4" deep in the dirt behind the box.
Launched from my 30-30 with 25 grs of 3031, probably 1800 fps at the muzzle.
If I had a good close shot at a black bear- hell yeah, I'd use it.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210418/9f2ce26c5025f412703dab0e14f0c9d7.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Norske]

I consult Buffalo Bore's website when picking bullets for big/dangerous game. Their 30-30 bullets are 190gr flat nosed Hawk bullets, and a non-lead option.

[fatelk]

I did a pretty primitive test today, just for curiosity. I was headed to the range anyhow. I took along some gallon jugs full of water and some 1" cedar boards from some old pallets.

I stacked four boards and sat a jug in front of it. I shot one with a JSP factory round, and one with a cast 170gr bullet. Both jugs exploded with what appeared to be about the same violence. The JSP bullet was lodged in the 3rd board behind the jug, and the cast bullet went through all four, with a fragment of lead barely lodged in the railroad tie behind the boards.

Same weight bullet, same velocity, similar penetration and transfer of energy. I'm satisfied with that. I'll give him a box to try if he's comfortable with them.

[missionary5155]

Looks like a reasonable comparison test.
I might adjust that test a bit by going two boards, one jug and two more boards all wrapped together with innertube just to see how the slugs take on variable substance like impacting a critter.

[Tar Heel]

If you shoot the bear where you should, the bullet will work just fine. If you hit the bear in the ar-se, well then we have shooter failure, NOT bullet failure.

[Three44s]

.................. He has backup in the form of a Model 29 on his hip, and dogs, but even these smaller bears are dangerous creatures. I wouldn't want to face one under any circumstances with ammo that's not up to the task.

A “29” is the first thing I’d reach for in troubled times!

A pair of bow hunters that I know fairly well were in a tree stand. They stuffed an arrow in a nice bear. The bear decided to use its now limited time on earth to CLIMB their tree .........

...... By the time the bears chin reached the boot rest of the stand those two fellers had their tootsie toes tucked pretty far back and arrows drawn!

Right about then Mr. Bear’s lights went out and it fell back to the ground!

Talk about PUCKER FACTOR!

Our State has since revised its law and a bow hunter can now pack a back up hand gun during a bow hunt!

Three44s

[Edward]

I did a pretty primitive test today, just for curiosity. I was headed to the range anyhow. I took along some gallon jugs full of water and some 1" cedar boards from some old pallets.

I stacked four boards and sat a jug in front of it. I shot one with a JSP factory round, and one with a cast 170gr bullet. Both jugs exploded with what appeared to be about the same violence. The JSP bullet was lodged in the 3rd board behind the jug, and the cast bullet went through all four, with a fragment of lead barely lodged in the railroad tie behind the boards.

Same weight bullet, same velocity, similar penetration and transfer of energy. I'm satisfied with that. I'll give him a box to try if he's comfortable with them.

You proved what lots of dead bears know ,That 170 gr Lee ? will @ BHN15 kill most anything hit with it if placed properly .My 500 gr Cedar tipped 2 blade just does it quieter @ 190 FPS , still have to point it in the right direction/Ed

[NEKVT]

Different cartridge

[Tripplebeards]

PM sent. I have 2 boxes of Federal 170 grain Powershoks plus an an extra 5 without the box.

[Norske]

The ability to break down a bear is important. First, a bear's lungs aren't as long as a deer's. The heart is protected by the front legs. So, the perfect bullet placement is in the front leg (see Boddington's Perfect Shot, NA), and it needs to break the front leg to get to the forward-placed vitals.

[JLF]

It must be exciting to hunt a bear ...

[Geezer in NH]

Lyman Mold #311291 was my family's 30/30 and 30/06 deer and bear bullet. Loaded with 29-30 grains 3031 powder in the 30/30. They killed my twin nephews first bears with no thoughts about them not going to be good enough for that.

My 30/06 had no problem killing deer and bear at all with them. Casting back in the 60 and 70's wheel weight and some tin worked great on game.

[HiVelocity]

Just my .02 worth; I, personally, would temper the Lyman 311041 in hollow point configuration. Top half soft(er) lead 13-14 Brinnell, the bottom half hard(er) about 17-18 Brinnell.

Only problem is, you cannot find any level of consistency, close though.

I would be interested to know what he used, and how well it worked...............

HV

[YippyKiYay]

If your friend is a Govt Trapper then he's killed DOZEN's of bear. We were friends with one in East TX, he preferred a 22 mag rifle and a pack of hounds. The state kept him in good supply of 22mag and 12 ga #4 buck, which he didn't like.

I'm sure your loads will be fine, go for it.