Range day with the Handi Rifle -exercise in patience

[OBXPilgrim]

Had a fun day with the H&R Handi Rifle yesterday. Had some loads that had been waitin' over a year to try. Everything was tried at 50 yards

Started off with the 22 Hornet. Had some real problems with this barrel a few years ago. It suffered from poor barrel latch fitting. Only one side of the latch shelf was in contact with the locking lug. It used to spray lead all over the place - 6 to 10 groups were the norm with and and every load. I finally figured it out and fitted it a little better (not possible with every barrel/receiver combo). Finally getting a 1/2" group using V-max 40gr J-words using AA1680 fuel that someone here recommended. So far, can not get boolits to shoot in this rifle. Only have the Bator boolit to test, but it's been down the bore with H110/2400/1680 with LLA and Orange Magic lubes. Got another load made up, this time with Unique in a low power 22 LR/Mag "tweener" load to try.

The next try was .357 MAX (same receiver, different barrel) with the 358627 215gr SWC boolit. Got one load that did pretty good with 1680 also. Hanging right around 1". Good enough for what I need it for.

Last on this receiver was the 7.62x39. I had a good load using 180 gr 311407 "fat 30" Group buy that clocks 1880 fps. It's still good. Got one deer with it this year & just wanted to check zero - still where I left it - wish I'd set up for more range to see how far off it moved since some don't think the Handi's return to zero very well - need to find out myself.

On to the new rifle. Bought as a 30-06 with "pallet" wood stocks, it now has a "tamer" stock and "storearm" forearm. With the 30-06, it shot good enough to down a deer this year also - didn't bring the '06 barrel this time. This rifle was the "5 month wonder", took me 5 months to get it back from H&R after sending it in for more barrels. Got a 223 Bull barrel, 444 Marlin, and 50 Cal ML fitted to it.

The 223 Bull barrel was a total disappointment when I got it back - they thoughly screwed up fitting the latch. It touched maybe .060" deep for a total of .100 length across the face of the lug. "Oh boy", it's going to be just like the 22 hornet! It would not even lock up good. You could slam it shut, then force it open!! About one every 3 "slams" it would stay closed. The extractor would not come up high enough to engage the groove in the rim of a cartridge case - it was just hanging down below the case - you could slide a shell into the the chamber without even touching the extractor. Anyway, I fitting the barrel a bit better - it's got a full engagement all the way across the lug now and fixed the extractor. It's 100% reliable now. Thought I had it fixed before range time, but it wasn't the case - had to drop a section of cleaning rod down the bore to extract cases. Now it works great. Anyway - no boolits tried in this one, but did find some j-words that went into 1/2" at 50 yards - not bad considering the "fixes" I've been through with this one. I'm glad they have a decently short throat in the barrel. A Winchester PSP 55gr slug seated in the groove is about .025" off the lands.

Then to fun started. The 444 marlin went on the receiver. It had the same miserable fitting of the latch, so bad I wasn't going to even shoot it until it went back to the factory. The problem with that was, it took 5 months to get it back, I don't really want to send it back again. Having some time after deer season, I fixed it to where it locks up very good. The "Fat Wide" 44 (285 gr) group buy boolit launched by SR4756 (15 to 17 grs) was fun to shoot - not sure how fast it clocked, but got 1.5" groups from one of them - good enough for a thumper deer round. Also having recently gotten the 310gr Lee WFN, I gave it a try as a "full" power load. H4895 powder, but backoff quite a bit due to the short throat keeping the slugs at only 2.500" OAL. It's got the last crimp groove buried down in the case. It is one wicked looking slug. I've never shot a 444 before, but if the factory load is much hotter, I'll stay away from it. I'd hate to rip the titanium plates in my neck loose!! The hottest load with H4895 was the most accurate (around 1.2" @ 50 yards).

After finally finding a one-holer j-word 223 rem load for a Ruger M77 MKII, I called it a day.

Can't wait to get back with that 444.

[lathesmith]

OBX,
It's kind of a sham, when I ordered some of those barrels a few years ago they had started adding a "fitting charge". Is that what we paid for? Man, that's terrible! I got a 38-55, a 357 mag, and a 20 gauge, but mine all seemed to fit the frame pretty good. Talk about hit and miss! I guess that is why guys don't mind buying these barrels secondhand and doing the fitting themselves, it sounds like in a lot of cases they have to anyway.
I once had a 444 Marlin lever gun; after a range session with that thing I thought the '06 was a fine plinker. A little too much of a good thing, at least for me, but it sure would be awsome on the business end. I started using one of those PAST pads under my jacket, and it made a huge difference. Good luck with your project, and try to avoid sitting at the bench while firing that thing too much.
lathesmith

[OBXPilgrim]

OBX,
they had started adding a "fitting charge".

Talk about hit and miss! I guess that is why guys don't mind buying these barrels secondhand and doing the fitting themselves, it sounds like in a lot of cases they have to anyway.


Yep, they still charged me for a fitting fee. And to top that, they wanted to charge me $15 more per barrel for proof testing. They sent me an invoice with it on it - I called & raised h$!! about it because they just added it & didn't even have any hint of it on their new (Remington-produced) order form.



I once had a 444 Marlin lever gun; after a range session with that thing I thought the '06 was a fine plinker.

Good luck with your project, and try to avoid sitting at the bench while firing that thing too much.
lathesmith

Thanks - I'll really need it if I decide to keep the 50 cal ML & fit it - it was the worst of the bunch.

And I don't want to spend too much time on the bench with the 444. When sighting it in, I noticed dad still had some clay pigeons laying in the brush out to a 100 yds. I'd already shot at them with the 22 centerfires but couldn't touch them through all the bushes. 444 punched right on through & broke 'em up. A 3x9 scope on it seems like cheating, but it only comes with a scope mount. I think I'd rather have a rear peep & blade front.

[lathesmith]

It's a simple matter to drill and tap the barrel for a front sight. Those Williams peep sights for these guns use the scope mounting holes, so you would only need one properly placed tapped hole for your front sight. That does sound like a good arrangement...dial it in with the scope, and then switch to open sights for a good "brush" gun.
lathesmith

[Jetwrench]

So what does a 90$ barrel end up costing with all the hidden charges? If you dont mind me asking. Jetwrench

[OBXPilgrim]

Right at about $120-$125.

They charge a $15 fitting fee for each barrel (2 barrels = $30, 3 barrels =$45). They also charge $15 shipping & handling for the whole package, same price whether it's 1,2, or 3 barrels. They wanted to charge me (and probably will be added it) and additional $15 per barrel for "Proof testing". Check their on-line order form on the H&R website. If it's not on their website yet, you might could talk them out of it. I'm guess it probably won't be long before it's on there.

[Jetwrench]

Thanks OBXPilgrim. Looks like they are gonna price themselves right out of their bargain status. Jetwrench

[klcarroll]

At one time I was seriously considering the Handi; ........Then I started reading stories like this one.

It sounds to me like they aren't worth the amount of gunsmithing you have to do after the purchase!

........Or am I missing something????

Kent

.

[leftiye]

Klc,

I haven't had much problem with gunsmithing them per se, but I am some miffed with their twist rates and their shallow rifling. If I can't get a barrel to satisfy me, I cut off the breech end and screw a barrel blank from a reputable barrel maker into it. I have three recievers that will all take the same barrels, and I did get the extra barrel thing through H&R (several extra barrels) without any problems.

[dualsport]

I know this is old stuff, but I have some current info to add. I sent my frame in to H&R about 3 wks. ago to have a .444 barrel fitted. Their cs guy called me today to let me know it's on the way! Door to door will be about 1 month. Total cost about $160, including everything. I don't know how it shoots yet, but so far I'd call it a good deal with good service. I have quite a few accessory barrels and some used ones I fit myself if needed. I like to cast for and load for stuff I haven't tried before, this is a cost effective way to do that. I got the brass and dies here used, plenty of molds and lead, it's like Christmas for me. Now I'm just sorry I didn't order the 26" .280 barrel I've wanted for so long. After months of trying I finally scored a 7.62x39 Handi Rifle with a laminate stock. Try finding one of those at a pawn shop! After I play with it a while I may have it rechambered to .303 or 7.62x54R. My gut feeling is a company owned now by Remington will be on their toes. I'll report when I get a chance to shoot it. I don't know exactly why, but I like these guns. Maybe it's because they're so simple and rugged, like me. (!)

[txpete]

thanks for the data on the 444.I just started shoot one but a encore 16".first time out I shot some ranch dog 265 gr's with 22.0 grs of 2400.excellent load accurate.the fac rem loads will rattle your teeth:D in that stubby encore.
pete

[lonewolf5347]

The remington company who bought H@R is a joke I would fit my own barrels instead of buying new ones from Rem:
I just had to add a .003 shim to the shelf seem I has some space on lock up between the rear of the barrel and the action breech face,the shim did the trick used J@B cold weld excellent lock up runs now .001
I also had a spare action just did a lower half trigger job started with 80oz got it down to 55oz
I try to stay away from heavy recoil same like you with the screws inn the neck area
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/latchshelf_1-1.jpg

[dualsport]

Got my frame back from H&R with the new .444 barrel on it. The cost ended up being $145, not $160 as I said above. Haven't shot it yet, I know that's pathetic, but it fits perfectly, lockup is as good as I've seen, can't ask for more than that. The bore looks like a mirror. I have high hopes for this barrel, we'll see. I don't own a trigger pull gauge, but I'd swear the trigger was worked on, feels lighter and crisp. There was a bunch of parts listed on the invoice, besides the barrel, all no charge. Maybe they went thru my gun and didn't like what they saw. If so, fine by me. In my one experience they get a definite thumbs up.

[Beekeeper]

I have the handi in 223,30/30,30-06 and 4570.
I have been trying to get the 223 barrel to shoot with any kind of accuracy but haven't gotten there yet
Tried yesterday with 14.3 gr of 4198 and a 60 grain lyman 225646 boolit.
Was all over the place.
Now I know I am not the best shot or sharpest pencil in the box but at 100 yards I do very good with the 06 barrel and 30/30.
Ain't gotten up the bazzoes to try the 45/70 yet.
What load and powder do some of you use with the 223 barrel/
The one I used came from buckshot and seems to be a good load except my barrel doesn't like it for some reason
Open for suggestions! and no getting rid of it isn't one of them.


Jim

[MT Gianni]

Dual sport, I have had good luck with the LEE155gr in 7.62x39 as well as 311466. I shoot both over 28 gr 4895.

[dualsport]

Thanks MT, I plan on buying that mold. Isn't that the one Ed Harris designed?

[Old Goat Keeper]

Jetwrench those barrels range in price from $59 to $126 depending on what barrell you get. The order form DOES have a $15 "fitting" charge but there is NO place where it says anything about a proofing charge. And this is on an order form that came with my Classic Carbine in the last month!

Tom



So what does a 90$ barrel end up costing with all the hidden charges? If you dont mind me asking. Jetwrench

[Old Goat Keeper]

Jetwrench those barrels range in price from $59 to $126 depending on what barrell you get. The order form DOES have a $15 "fitting" charge but there is NO place where it says anything about a proofing charge. And this is on an order form that came with my Classic Carbine in the last month!

I've not had any problems with my Classic Carbine in 45 Colt.

BTW, I thot NEF/H&R was owned by Marlin who ws bought out by Legacy sports or some such name???

Tom



So what does a 90$ barrel end up costing with all the hidden charges? If you dont mind me asking. Jetwrench

[Tom308]

I can not ever see my self buying a new handi barrel. I have fitted several used barrels that were quite a bit less expensive. I fitted the barrels and, they all out shoot me. It's easy to pick up fitting info at the greybeard site. I have eight calibers. All shoot VERY good. Factory fitting is hit or miss. Some are good, some are terrible. Factory quality control often leaves a lot to be desired. I'm still very happy with my rifle.

[OBXPilgrim]

Folks, that fitting fee was dropped over a year ago - that was Jan 2009! Guess they decided that wasn't too great an idea.

Thanks for the updated info, though!

BTW, H&R is owned by Marlin, who is now owned by Remington. The Marlin plant is/was closing & being moved to Illion, NY (Remington plant).

From the reports on the Graybeards site, it sounds like they are getting much better at fitting the barrels.

All the barrels I reported on above work fine now (except the SS ML- haven't messed with it), no thanks to H&R- I did it myself, about a year ago.

[Bulletlube]

Freedom Group, Inc. is the owner of the following:

REMINGTON
BUSHMASTER
REMINGTON MPD
REMINGTON LE
MARLIN FIREARMS
H&R 1871
DAKOTA ARMS
DPMS / Panther Arms
PARKER GUNMAKERS
BARNES BULLETS
ADVANCED ARMAMENT EOTAC
REMINGTON PMPD

[Old Goat Keeper]

I just bought a Classic carbine bout a month ago and the papers with it STILL say there is a $15 fitting fee. And I believe that Marlin, who owns NEF, was bought by a holding company that ALSO owns Remington and a whole bunch of other companies. What I read says the Marlin pant is moving to SC where they moved Remington.

Tom



Folks, that fitting fee was dropped over a year ago - that was Jan 2009! Guess they decided that wasn't too great an idea.

Thanks for the updated info, though!

BTW, H&R is owned by Marlin, who is now owned by Remington. The Marlin plant is/was closing & being moved to Illion, NY (Remington plant).

From the reports on the Graybeards site, it sounds like they are getting much better at fitting the barrels.

All the barrels I reported on above work fine now (except the SS ML- haven't messed with it), no thanks to H&R- I did it myself, about a year ago.

[MT Gianni]

Thanks MT, I plan on buying that mold. Isn't that the one Ed Harris designed?

Yes both a tl and standard groove.

[JIMinPHX]

I really love my little handi rifle & I had wanted to get some more barrels for it, but with the way that Remington is doing things these days, I may start looking for a TC.

[OBXPilgrim]

I just bought a Classic carbine bout a month ago and the papers with it STILL say there is a $15 fitting fee. And I believe that Marlin, who owns NEF, was bought by a holding company that ALSO owns Remington and a whole bunch of other companies. What I read says the Marlin pant is moving to SC where they moved Remington.

Tom

Busted!

You're right, don't know what I was thinking. It was the proof firing fee that was dropped. Good catch.

Cerberus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management) is the holding company - they set up the "freedom group".

Heard some rumors about Marlin coming here to NC, but I don't think that's true (that was the first I'd heard of SC).
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,64499.0.html

[dualsport]

I know I'm repeating myself, but for those of you who missed it, I recently sent my frame in for an accessory barrel, a .444 Marlin. The barrel was $96, $19 for shipping and handling, and $25 for a fitting fee. Door to door turnaround was 5 wks., give or take a day. The fitting job appears flawless to me, functions perfectly, still working on loads. That said, I've also had good luck with used barrels, but not at a big cost difference, average price I've seen for common calibers is around $120 used, give or take, and more for the special stuff that's hard to find.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Well Pilgrim you got me too! lol Yeah the group is called freedom Arms and I messed up on which Carolina i twas. Shoulda said NC instead. Anyways supposedly below the Mason-Dixon line. Wha tI read was that the Marlin plant is moving ot be near the new remington plant. Enuff hearsay for tonite! lol

Tom who still likes his Classic Carbine



Busted!

Heard some rumors about Marlin coming here to NC, but I don't think that's true (that was the first I'd heard of SC).
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,64499.0.html