Expander Die... required or no?

[TexasAg11]

For 45 colt with new brass and jacketed bullets, is an expander die necessary? I was able to seat the bullets with very little issue by hand. Am I missing something? Thanks!

[sharps4590]

See how they shoot. If they're accurate enough for your needs, then no, you aren't missing a thing. Sometimes all I do is flare the case mouth enough to seat the bullet, rifle and handgun. Works for me.

[bdicki]

You need to size the new brass, the first die squeezes the brass smaller and the expander die opens it up for proper and uniform neck tension. You should not be able to push a bullet in by hand. You need to lube the brass before sizing, then clean it after you expand it. I would suggest some reading on reloading or find someone close by to help.

[cwlongshot]

Well... NECESSARY... no but still helpful. I use the Lyman M-Die works on a different process but achieves similar end. No generally not used for a jacketed bullet.

CW

[Wayne Smith]

For a condom bullet no, they are hard enough to expand the brass without problem, just a slight chamfer is what is necessary. With lead something to open the brass is necessary. Even a pair of long nose pliers will do it, its not rocket science. An M die provides precision that little else does except the NOE version of the same thing that fits in the Lee flare die.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

For 45 colt with new brass and jacketed bullets, is an expander die necessary? I was able to seat the bullets with very little issue by hand. Am I missing something? Thanks!
You did What?

Did you size the brass?

[gwpercle]

At some point in time , with certian boolits j-word not so much but cast lead , plated lead and coated lead you will absolutely need one . Cases with a thin mouth can catch and collapse a j-word bullet .
A great thing to have is Lee Universal Neck Expander Die ... it realy just flares but lots of times that's all you need ... add some NOE expander plugs and you have Lyman M-die at a much lower cost . These are much needed when seating soft , larger diameter , cast and coated lead boolits ...
Trust Me !

Next time you get a chance ... pick up a Lee Universal Neck Expander...that way you will have flaring capabilities and be ready for NOE expander plugs when needed .
Gary

[Martin Luber]

If the bullet can seat 1/16" by hand, you're good. The other key is a drilled out seater plug that guarantees straight seating because it seats by the shoulder of the boolet, not the nose. You also don't have to addust for each new boolet since the nose fits freely inside the plug.

[Martin Luber]

Seater credit to Ed Masaki from Hawaii, l do this for all pistol boolets like 45 ACP. It doesn't work quite the same for slender rifle boolets.

[TexasAg11]

Thanks for the help and the feedback. I have the Lee expander die and played around with it today. Will plan to run all of the new brass through a sizing die and then the expander die when loading hard casts or if seating takes too much force with jacketed bullets.

[Wayne Smith]

It is worth your time and money to invest in one or a couple of the NOE expander plugs just to experience the difference between loading with a flare that allows the bullet to wobble as it is seated and a plug that expands the shell so the bullet sits in the case firmly before seating.

[Walks]

BOY HOWDY !!!!
This brings back a memory.
1976; a year out of the Service and living on My own. Setting up My own casting/reloading stuff. I had just bought a Ruger BH in .45Colt and 3 boxes of New Remington Brass and Lyman 3 die set. I didn't have any molds for .45Colt so I used the #452374 that I had cast for My 1911 that were on hand. Primed, expanded and charged the cases with Unique.

And watched that first bullet fall all the way inside the case to rest on top of the Powder.

Back then Remington Factory cases were sized for the .456diameter soft lead RNFP that Rem had been loading for 75?-100? years.
Might still be, only time I've ever got my hands on .45Colt REM factory brass.

Shortly thereafter My Dad gave Me a #454190 mold. Never had that problem again. The only .45Colt brass I ever found after that was Winchester. At least until about 1989 or so.

Still it was a Good Lesson.
Very Well Remembered. My Dad got a real hoot out of it when I told Him about it years later.

[Three44s]

There is a fine line between just right and “so-so” handloading!

First hand experience and reading, a lot of that, is what makes the difference.

If you are going to make ammo that works and brass that lasts more than a couple of rough starts, then the OP has some homework.

All ammo MUST have neck tension except in a few circumstances and that force necessitates that simply pushing any bullet, cast or jacketed, by hand is not up to snuff.

Next, in sizing that casing, on straight sided cases, whether they are rifle or handgun, you must flare or bell the mouth, period! The amount needed varies with cast boolits needing the most flare and jacketed needing the least, but they all need it.

Chamfering Case mouths is no substitute for belling the case mouth but it augments good entry of all bullets and is also important.

You can bell too much or too little and it’s experience and advanced first hand knowledge that will guide you as to what is required because in each class of bullet, cast or otherwise, and the nature of your casing used (which cartridge, the brand of brass and how work hardened it is) you will generally encounter either minor differences or major ones.

The internet is the last place to get a formal customized education in handloading. Reading and a lot of that plus the school of hard knocks is the real place to get it.

Three44s

[JimB..]

OP needs to read a reloading manual. You need a better understanding of the overall process so you know what to expect at each step in the process and can recognize issues. Folks here are a great resource, but the responses assume that you have the basic understanding of the process and language which you currently lack.

Not being mean about it, we’ve all been there, just that there are lots of little things that you won’t know to ask about, and learning by trial and error can be expensive and dangerous.

[TexasAg11]

Yup, can’t argue with the above two comments regarding lack of experience. Good advice thank you

[.429&H110]

I am forever grateful to a kid a third my age (who was taught by his dad) that walked me through casting and reloading. Then this forum answered all my questions without my having to even ask. Thank you all!

[JimB..]

Yup, can’t argue with the above two comments regarding lack of experience. Good advice thank you

Just FYI, if you want to start with one that’s a little dated in terms of load data but is still good on the process, and free, search the internet for “Lyman 44 pdf”

[TexasAg11]

Thank you. I have the hornady, Lee, and Speer manuals but not the Lyman yet. Unfortunately none of the ones I listed were able to answer all of my specific questions but they are very informative.

[William Yanda]

Good on you for asking. And welcome to the forum.
I heard you can always tell an Aggie....but you can't tell them much.

[Conditor22]

For 45 colt with new brass and jacketed bullets, is an expander die necessary? I was able to seat the bullets with very little issue by hand. Am I missing something? Thanks!

I always size ALL new brass before reloading (this keep everything the same for reloading new and old brass on your setup

If you are talking about a die with a plug that goes in the middle of a sizing die to expand the case after sizing no I haven't seen such a beast for straight wall handgun brass

If you are talking about a die like the Lee powder through die which expands the case neck and highly flares the case mouth, I always expand and flare ALL my brass when loading cast boolits. If you don't you can swage down softer boolits when you seat them.

Seat/crimp then pull the boolit and see if it's still the same diameter you sized it to, if not you need to expand the case neck and/or cut back on the factory crimp.

**I rarely seat and crimp in the same operation with cast boolits

[quilbilly]

Some years back at a garage sale I bought a cheap old sharpening steel with a tapered round tip. It does just enough expanding and chamfering for all of my cartridges from 243 to 338 so they will easily take even plain base CB's. That was a dollar well spent.